A thought concerning our direction.

chris98251 · Mar 7, 2018

Watching Johns Press conference appearance at the combine he made a statement that may be telling, he said he brought in guys that were in awe or glad to be able to play with our Super Stars, he then went on to say he needs them to want to compete against them, a big difference.

The Coaching Shuffle, now the Player Shuffle, I think it's all about being Hungry, our coaches and our player got comfortable and the mentality in the building changed. Sherman saying we had a Rah Rah meeting and that Vets don't need to hear that is another example.

Vets were tuning things out because they heard it before and didn't take it to heart as much since they were on top, Coaches not pushing the new comers as much because we had great guys in front of them, Coaches not being creative because it worked before etc etc etc.

John also stated he was going back to the leave no stone unturned mentality to put on the top of the heap again, that means roster churn to me.

TwistedHusky · Mar 7, 2018

Maybe, but if we need to lose great players because they are starting to become less effective and there is a clear belief things won't get better the longer they are here....

Shouldn't we explore the same thing with the coach and FO?

It will be an interesting year, but I don't believe that Carroll is the kind of coach that can consistently win without a pack of all-everything players underneath him. He isn't able in tactical or strategic planning and he isn't exactly a shining example of picking great assistants either.

At some point, these arguments that are being made about the importance of replacing once great players? They need to be made about replacing once great coaches too.

I think someone else could have won more with what we had, but now we have less? Not sure.

chris98251 · Mar 7, 2018

TwistedHusky":1ri2ya9x said:
Maybe, but if we need to lose great players because they are starting to become less effective and there is a clear belief things won't get better the longer they are here....

Shouldn't we explore the same thing with the coach and FO?

It will be an interesting year, but I don't believe that Carroll is the kind of coach that can consistently win without a pack of all-everything players underneath him. He isn't able in tactical or strategic planning and he isn't exactly a shining example of picking great assistants either.

At some point, these arguments that are being made about the importance of replacing once great players? They need to be made about replacing once great coaches too.

I think someone else could have won more with what we had, but now we have less? Not sure.

Well you have a problem, he has had success here and USC, he is the Boss as well at least as far as the Football team goes, Paul may be the owner but he is like the CEO of a Holding company, rarely involved in day to day operations. Bosses retire or get outed by board of directors which would be the Vulcan company going to Paul if they think things need changing.

adeltaY · Mar 7, 2018

Who's better than Pete though? Belichick and? Pederson's a popular answer but that's recency bias, let's see the Eagles make the playoffs even three years in a row before we crown him. Tomlin? Even the Steelers have missed the playoffs and had some mediocre seasons several years ago. Reid is great until it comes to the post season, where he doesnt come close to matching Carroll's success. Harbaugh? Missed playoffs three years in a row.

Point is, Pete may be declining but he has kept us pretty consistent through some adversity, which is more than almost any coach in recent memory can say.

Seymour · Mar 7, 2018

Pete is the defense. With a pack of nobodies we will be top 15 and a couple more hits top 10. So we build an oline and now it's Wilsons team and we actually play 4 quarters. We can climb back in 2 years, just may not be how some want since 2013 is stuck in the brain.

ApnaHawk · Mar 7, 2018

Carrol consistently won in college where roster turn over is ridiculous. I'm sure it's nothing new to him.

chris98251 · Mar 7, 2018

ApnaHawk":qanxva5j said:
Carrol consistently won in college where roster turn over is ridiculous. I'm sure it's nothing new to him.

Well the Alumni paid the players and there was no Cap. He also had the pick of the country so to speak, a bit different.

ApnaHawk · Mar 7, 2018

chris98251":2xbmc18r said:
ApnaHawk":2xbmc18r said:

Carrol consistently won in college where roster turn over is ridiculous. I'm sure it's nothing new to him.

Click to expand...

Well the Alumni paid the players and there was no Cap. He also had the pick of the country so to speak, a bit different.

Every major college pays players, so he didn't really have an advantage there. And now he also gets to coach the cream of the crop of college players. The best of the best.

seahawkfreak · Mar 7, 2018

Maybe this is why some coaches are so successful in college. There is always a knew young core to be part of the program. Military works the same way. Keep a couple leaders to keep the tradition then move old leaders on to new places to pass on their experiences. Roster rotation is not a bad thing as long there are right players picked.

Successful civilizations work the same way. It is human nature.

original poster · Mar 7, 2018

I completely agree Chris, I wrote pretty much the same thing on my site a few days ago -

jammerhawk · Mar 7, 2018

He was connected to the recruiting personally back then at USC, now 9 years later he can’t contribute as much to the equation anymore, and has his faults.

He’s still a great coach but last year the team’s personnel went through an ’all in, Big Balls Pete’ year. The team whiffed b/c of injury on a widely thought of special 3 tech desperately needed by an aging slowing D. JS was complient in helping solve the Cable Fable nonsense with the OLine, but they screwed up the cap plan.now the piper has to be paid. Further as we mostly all agree the OLine was broken and Cable failed to meet any targetted expectations as “Running Game Coordinator” or whatever he was doing poorly. Coabch Bevell hardly knew how to use the broken O the team gave him and yet despite being awful, but for 3 missed FGs the team would have been the NFC-W Champion again, imagine that, after alll that crappy play calling abysymal running game and stilll NFC-W Champions. After the last whiff by our idiot head case PK the post-seasonretrospective showed Pete how screwed up he’d allowed his team to become by keeping the band together and alllowing the team rules to be winked at by some of his the ‘vets’, time for a change. I suspect he was embarrassed by his failure this year. I genuinely think he thought he a winning team but the OLine let him down.

I suspect he was a bit shocked when the whole year was looked at critically and now he wants to fix this situation with JS before he rides of with his reputation still intact. Cable had totally failed at all of his jobs, Bevell was unable to control his QB or use special talents given to him as magic bulllets for a flawed scheme that ceased working effectively when Lynch was hurt/left. His chosen DC wanted to stay but Pete likely thought (my conjecture) the very strong personalities that are presently being traded, released, or cut were not well controlled by Coach Richard and his old friend the very gruff respected Coach Norton was happiily available. Good bye Bevelll , Good Bye Cable, Good Bye Richard, thanks for your time here. Time now foe personnel changes and to fix the screwed up cap situation and the running game.

Expect more significant surprising personnel moves and some interesting draft picks.

I guess that was more than one thought.

seahawkfreak · Mar 7, 2018

original poster":31qlheng said:
I completely agree Chris, I wrote pretty much the same thing on my site a few days ago -

I don't doubt that our star players could still play at a high rate. You are right in pointing out that if these "stars" blow off the mantra of the team's philosophy, younger guys who are not as good as established players, they will start to develop an attitude and not reach their full potential. It is definitely a hard balance.

It transcends life, business and sports.

IndyHawk · Mar 8, 2018

This is what BB has done for years except for a couple of players and Pete is just now realizing why.
I guess better late than never.

pittpnthrs · Mar 8, 2018

TwistedHusky":49jlxa8f said:
It will be an interesting year, but I don't believe that Carroll is the kind of coach that can consistently win without a pack of all-everything players underneath him. He isn't able in tactical or strategic planning and he isn't exactly a shining example of picking great assistants either.

I agree with this. He's always had to have the most talent to win. As for the players not buying into his 'always compete' philosophy, well thats on him too. When your coach preaches something, but he himself doesnt prescribe to it, how do you think the players are going to react? Some feel that Pete can right the ship, but I honestly have zero confidence in that, but thats alright. At least he's showing that he's finally going to try. I just feel that when he finally steps down, a lot of people are going to look at his tenure in the 'what could and should of been' aspect. Only winning one title with that core group of talented players is a shame.

Str8OuttaSkittles · Mar 8, 2018

purge should have started after superbowl loss with coaches heads rolling. see if they bought in with a new set up if not the player purge would happen the year after, would not be in this mess just my opinion, 4 years of waste caught up this year but if anyone can rebuild its pete he gotta get nasty .

EverydayImRusselin · Mar 8, 2018

jammerhawk":1zw8co4s said:
He was connected to the recruiting personally back then at USC, now 9 years later he can’t contribute as much to the equation anymore, and has his faults.

He’s still a great coach but last year the team’s personnel went through an ’all in, Big Balls Pete’ year. The team whiffed b/c of injury on a widely thought of special 3 tech desperately needed by an aging slowing D. JS was complient in helping solve the Cable Fable nonsense with the OLine, but they screwed up the cap plan.now the piper has to be paid. Further as we mostly all agree the OLine was broken and Cable failed to meet any targetted expectations as “Running Game Coordinator” or whatever he was doing poorly. Coabch Bevell hardly knew how to use the broken O the team gave him and yet despite being awful, but for 3 missed FGs the team would have been the NFC-W Champion again, imagine that, after alll that crappy play calling abysymal running game and stilll NFC-W Champions. After the last whiff by our idiot head case PK the post-seasonretrospective showed Pete how screwed up he’d allowed his team to become by keeping the band together and alllowing the team rules to be winked at by some of his the ‘vets’, time for a change. I suspect he was embarrassed by his failure this year. I genuinely think he thought he a winning team but the OLine let him down.

I suspect he was a bit shocked when the whole year was looked at critically and now he wants to fix this situation with JS before he rides of with his reputation still intact. Cable had totally failed at all of his jobs, Bevell was unable to control his QB or use special talents given to him as magic bulllets for a flawed scheme that ceased working effectively when Lynch was hurt/left. His chosen DC wanted to stay but Pete likely thought (my conjecture) the very strong personalities that are presently being traded, released, or cut were not well controlled by Coach Richard and his old friend the very gruff respected Coach Norton was happiily available. Good bye Bevelll , Good Bye Cable, Good Bye Richard, thanks for your time here. Time now foe personnel changes and to fix the screwed up cap situation and the running game.

Expect more significant surprising personnel moves and some interesting draft picks.

I guess that was more than one thought.

Great post

jammerhawk · Mar 8, 2018

Pete is good at getting folks to buy in to overcome adversity. Keeping the message fresh is tough for any coach.

If Pete has a flawed side it is his ‘Big Balls Pete’ side. That side of him is fun to watch but you need to be prepared to fail spectacularly if you want to succeed spectacularly. That said he’s a very good coach with an exceptional football mind.

I am a fan of the Seahawks and this FO warts and all has still done things better than they have ever been done here before.

I believe this FO knows how to get it done and has learned some lessons from their mistakes. With the good there is always a little bad.

The next few weeks are going to be quite interesting.

bigskydoc · Mar 8, 2018

TwistedHusky":2pc9koik said:
Shouldn't we explore the same thing with the coach and FO?

Isn't that exactly what we did this offseason. Not head coach and FO yet, but I would guess that is coming next year or the year after if we don't get results.

Str8OuttaSkittles":2pc9koik said:
purge should have started after superbowl loss with coaches heads rolling. see if they bought in with a new set up if not the player purge would happen the year after, would not be in this mess just my opinion, 4 years of waste caught up this year but if anyone can rebuild its pete he gotta get nasty .

This.

MontanaHawk05 · Mar 8, 2018

IndyHawk":1fhc7qdr said:
This is what BB has done for years except for a couple of players and Pete is just now realizing why.
I guess better late than never.

What all this "rawwr get young and hungry" sentiment is leaving out, again, is that these veterans never stopped playing at a Pro Bowl level, and we have a number of young guys (Clark, Griffin, Jones, Carson, Britt, I'll even throw in Pocic) who look very promising and don't appear hamstrung by any team culture problems.

Instead of falling back on intangibles that can never be proven, let's try this to explain 2017: PC/JS picked an awful kicker. They had terrible injury luck at the RB position (and signed Lacy, which was bad), resulting in the league's worst running game. They have a QB who tanks a play for every two he salvages. That's enough for me.

TwistedHusky · Mar 8, 2018

Carroll likely has 2-3 years left here. Maybe.

I am not sure how we are going to revamp/reload the team without any draft picks and with a spotty record of pretty average returns when we do manage to draft but maybe that will change.

A thought concerning our direction.

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