Dumping the defensive stars so we can get more offensive?

SpokaneHawks

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It looks like we may be heading that direction. Go young and cheap on defense and re-tool the offense? Pete's a defensive guy, but he may see this as one last hoorah and is going to give it a go with the offense. Different coaches and maybe a different mindset, we'll see. Maybe let Russ ball out in the pass game and hope that we can strike gold again with some cheap but hungry defensive guys! That's kind how it all started with Pete in Seattle and I sort of think it might be the way he wants to finish it!
 

original poster

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I've got an article coming out on my site that I wrote earlier in the week saying exactly this.

Dealing with the huge difference between defensive and offensive spending.

Happy to post it here if people are interested.
 

Seahawkfan80

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If the team wants to go offensive race, I am not sure if that is gonna be the right track. If it is just retooling on the offense and defense in order to make the same run first offense with more money on that side of the ball, it should be ok.
 

Uncle Si

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Seahawkfan80":1d8msuzo said:
If the team wants to go offensive race, I am not sure if that is gonna be the right track. If it is just retooling on the offense and defense in order to make the same run first offense with more money on that side of the ball, it should be ok.


I see it more like this.

Paying defensive stars to win championships is fine. However, the imbalance has finally caught up to the team.. as some of these defensive stars are not nearly worth what the team is paying.

Time to find a balance
 

TwistedHusky

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Well if that is the case, we probably should have gotten an OC with some promise.

Our best players are now on offense, so it would make sense.

But we have a HC with a history of focusing on the defense over offense.

We have a middle of the road (if that) OC.

We have a tremendously talented QB but he is almost tremendously inconsistent and not very adept at some key elements you would expect a top tier QB to be able to produce at. Then again, he was hamstrung with a sub-par OC but I am not really sure we helped him much with our new OC.

We NEEDED to focus on offense as that is our strength. I just am not sure this staff has the ability to do it.
 

original poster

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Seahawkfan80":303kwxhh said:
If the team wants to go offensive race, I am not sure if that is gonna be the right track. If it is just retooling on the offense and defense in order to make the same run first offense with more money on that side of the ball, it should be ok.

I think his point (and certainly mine) is not to go 'heavy' on the offense, but simply to just have much more of a balance.
 

2_0_6

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TwistedHusky":1dko0w8g said:
Well if that is the case, we probably should have gotten an OC with some promise.

Our best players are now on offense, so it would make sense.

But we have a HC with a history of focusing on the defense over offense.

We have a middle of the road (if that) OC.

We have a tremendously talented QB but he is almost tremendously inconsistent and not very adept at some key elements you would expect a top tier QB to be able to produce at. Then again, he was hamstrung with a sub-par OC but I am not really sure we helped him much with our new OC.

We NEEDED to focus on offense as that is our strength. I just am not sure this staff has the ability to do it.


You should probably let them get a few games under their belt as an offense before you write them off all together.
 

Seahawkfan80

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Uncle Si":3iyxypru said:
Seahawkfan80":3iyxypru said:
If the team wants to go offensive race, I am not sure if that is gonna be the right track. If it is just retooling on the offense and defense in order to make the same run first offense with more money on that side of the ball, it should be ok.


I see it more like this.

Paying defensive stars to win championships is fine. However, the imbalance has finally caught up to the team.. as some of these defensive stars are not nearly worth what the team is paying.

Time to find a balance

So the defensive roller coaster is on its downward slope and the offense is on the upslope....Ok. I wonder if they plan on using the 2 roller coasters for the next 3 years allowing to let them pass each other quietly in the night. I think in order to make this work the best...you alternate your core groups every 3 to 5 years on each side of the ball. But I am only an armchair qb. And not very good at it.
 

White Devil

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Uncle Si":3dv2khxp said:
Seahawkfan80":3dv2khxp said:
If the team wants to go offensive race, I am not sure if that is gonna be the right track. If it is just retooling on the offense and defense in order to make the same run first offense with more money on that side of the ball, it should be ok.


I see it more like this.

Paying defensive stars to win championships is fine. However, the imbalance has finally caught up to the team.. as some of these defensive stars are not nearly worth what the team is paying.

Time to find a balance

Exactly. The lightbulb finally went off.

This team should be able to field a top 15 defense with the scheme and coaching of younger, cheaper players.

They tried to go cheap on the offensive line and it blew up in their face. That seems to be the last position group that teams can be stingy.

IMO you're going to see the dollars being spent on both the offensive line, and defensive line in the future.

They rewarded the guys for winning a Lombardi. It's time to hunt for another one.

It's tough on fans to lose favorite players, but it's the nature of the sport.

I'm excited with all the change. :179422:
 

Sgt. Largent

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We're dumping defensive stars to get cap relief. Period.

Right now we barely have 10M of cap space before free agency and the draft. Trading Bennett and cutting Sherman opens up 13M more just for those two players.

That's the thing people who are mad about these moves don't get. You CAN'T go into free agency and the draft with holes all over the roster to fill with 10M of cap to sign a dozen players (free agents and all the draft picks).

So you start at the top of the roster, and work your way down.

Wilson
Sherman
Thomas
Wagner
Bennett
Wright
Brown
Britt
Baldwin

So if you're pissed off about Sherman and Bennett, who are you cutting? Cause you gotta cut multiple people on this list to free up enough cap to even sign mediocre free agents to fill the roster and pay all your draft picks.
 

MontanaHawk05

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Defense still wins championships. People almost seem to be espousing a "screw the defense, let's win with Wilson" strategy, and it would bite them if they were the FO. These moves by PC/JS are more about managing the money than about undervaluing the defense.
 

kf3339

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I think developing a more balanced attack makes a lot more sense than having a heavily stacked defense. That method gave us our first SB win..... but only one win. Perhaps if we had been a little more balanced and kept a better O-Line we could have hoisted another SB win, or even two.

Now as I have posted in the GM thread I think going for proven veteran help on offense (OL.TE, WR) and younger/cheaper on defense in the draft just makes more sense. PC can really prove himself by building a new defense again. With RW and an experienced OL and hopeful young, aggressive RB in the draft you having the makings of a new contending team. Not next year, but maybe in 2019 or 2020 for another SB.

PC did it once before after all.
 

original poster

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MontanaHawk05":3qx1tiqm said:
Defense still wins championships. People almost seem to be espousing a "screw the defense, let's win with Wilson" strategy, and it would bite them if they were the FO. These moves by PC/JS are more about managing the money than about undervaluing the defense.

I don't think anyone is saying that at all?
 

edogg23

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The seahawks are really stuck either signing guys who are cut or waiting until after the free agency period that counts against comp picks is over because they can't afford to give up any of their comp picks they are going to be getting.
 

Uncle Si

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Agreed Sgt... but I don't think its JUST cap relief. I could see these moves being made if the team was sitting on double the space they had going in.

I see this moves more in line with the direction of the team vs. the value of its players.

Bennett and more so Sherman are not going to be as productive this year as years past... and two years down the road it's even less.

This is the right time to move on from them. I think a similar conversation is being had about Chancellor. Thomas on the other hand may be a little different. But his trade value might still make it a worthwhile move.

These are impact players whose names have been synonymous with the team's recent success.. and identity. Letting them go is difficult to do as it's effectively letting go of that era.

But that's football. And this is, for better or worse.. Wilson and Carroll's team. The new roster should reflect that.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Uncle Si":1evuj8t7 said:
Agreed Sgt... but I don't think its JUST cap relief. I could see these moves being made if the team was sitting on double the space they had going in.

I see this moves more in line with the direction of the team vs. the value of its players.

Bennett and more so Sherman are not going to be as productive this year as years past... and two years down the road it's even less.

This is the right time to move on from them. I think a similar conversation is being had about Chancellor. Thomas on the other hand may be a little different. But his trade value might still make it a worthwhile move.

These are impact players whose names have been synonymous with the team's recent success.. and identity. Letting them go is difficult to do as it's effectively letting go of that era.

But that's football. And this is, for better or worse.. Wilson and Carroll's team. The new roster should reflect that.

Yep, that's part two.............who's in your rebuilding long range plans?

Neither Bennett or Sherman are, thus they're the one's being traded and cut. We thought Earl wasn't either, so we'll see on that. People are now saying Earl's staying, but I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded on draft day, especially if he's still threatening to hold out and wants a massive 15M a year extension.

All the other guys on my list? My guess is they'll be extended or restructured to open up even more cap this year or next.
 

Uncle Si

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Sgt. Largent":3nh4wt60 said:
Uncle Si":3nh4wt60 said:
Agreed Sgt... but I don't think its JUST cap relief. I could see these moves being made if the team was sitting on double the space they had going in.

I see this moves more in line with the direction of the team vs. the value of its players.

Bennett and more so Sherman are not going to be as productive this year as years past... and two years down the road it's even less.

This is the right time to move on from them. I think a similar conversation is being had about Chancellor. Thomas on the other hand may be a little different. But his trade value might still make it a worthwhile move.

These are impact players whose names have been synonymous with the team's recent success.. and identity. Letting them go is difficult to do as it's effectively letting go of that era.

But that's football. And this is, for better or worse.. Wilson and Carroll's team. The new roster should reflect that.

Yep, that's part two.............who's in your rebuilding long range plans?

Neither Bennett or Sherman are, thus they're the one's being traded and cut. We thought Earl wasn't either, so we'll see on that. People are now saying Earl's staying, but I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded on draft day, especially if he's still threatening to hold out and wants a massive 15M a year extension.

All the other guys on my list? My guess is they'll be extended or restructured to open up even more cap this year or next.

Wilson and Wagner (and maybe/probably Clark) are the only ones who should be in the long term plans for me.

Interestingly... It looks like the Vikings are going to trade Case Keenum and Anthony Barr's future for Kirk Cousins.. trying to find balance
 

gowazzu02

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It's no way a change of philosophy. Its getting rid of aging high paid vets. Potentially a year early opposed to a year late.

Father time is undefeated....
 

Seymour

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MontanaHawk05":2n4xoyg7 said:
Defense still wins championships. People almost seem to be espousing a "screw the defense, let's win with Wilson" strategy, and it would bite them if they were the FO. These moves by PC/JS are more about managing the money than about undervaluing the defense.

This isn't about "killing the defense" and I don't see people saying that. This is about getting cap space and killing bad deals, and ridding the team of guys not buying in.... and more happen to be on defense.

That said, I think a better balance and supporting your #1 asset is something long overdue here.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Uncle Si":1091rd00 said:
Wilson and Wagner (and maybe/probably Clark) are the only ones who should be in the long term plans for me.

I think Wilson, Wagner and Clark for sure, and I also think we'll try and sign Brown to a two year extension, if he's open to that short of an extension for around 10M a year.

We desperately need him to stabilize the O-line through the rebuild, so I wouldn't want him gone until we find his replacement (no I don't think it's Fant, he'll probably be playing RT next year).

So there's your core, Wilson, Wagner, Brown, Clark, Baldwin...................and 50/50 on Thomas.

That's it, that's the only way out of this mess, stockpile picks and open up as much cap as possible and we gotta hope John and Pete can do another rebuild successfully.
 
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