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As of now is RW top 5 QB?

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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:03 pm
  • For Wilson to be as successful as he is despite no running game, despite no O -LINE, despite a OC that didn't know how to use the talent he was given and forcing 3rd and 10,15, 20 plays constantly and be rated where he is, I would say he is Elite in a non typical way, his numbers are very good considering he was asked to be the offense despite 7 other players not performing up to par, O line, TE, and RB's.

    What can he do with receivers, that have non predictable routes, a TE that will catch in the flat and across the middle as well as receivers, a running game and time to read thru his progressions?
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:49 pm
  • original poster wrote:Here's some more passer rating stats for Russ.

    The thing that his game would benefit most from is his efficiency on 3rd down. It's the only area where he is below league average.

    Lets hope teams keep blitzing on him, though. He absolutely excels.

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    Very fair point. I think defenses use some of Russ's achilles heel against him on 3rd downs. They call those crucial 3rd down plays...and that's where a proper running game comes in. To give shorter down and distances and versatility. Then his 3rd down numbers would be more respectable
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:57 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    original poster wrote:Here's some more passer rating stats for Russ.

    The thing that his game would benefit most from is his efficiency on 3rd down. It's the only area where he is below league average.

    Lets hope teams keep blitzing on him, though. He absolutely excels.

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    Very fair point. I think defenses use some of Russ's achilles heel against him on 3rd downs. They call those crucial 3rd down plays...and that's where a proper running game comes in. To give shorter down and distances and versatility. Then his 3rd down numbers would be more respectable


    They also used Bevell's 3rd down play calling against him. ;)
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:15 pm
  • Very good point on the third and long.

    I'd love to find the average yardage on 3rd down for him, wouldn't be surprised if it's bottom third in the league.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:02 am
  • My list:

    Brady
    Brees (criminally underrated)
    Rodgers
    Rapelessberger
    Ryan (MVP last year who at times looked like #1)
    Wentz (legitimate MVP candidate if he doesn’t get hurt)
    Wilson (nearing serious MVP discussion outside of Seattle)
    Rivers
    Smith
    Newton


    There is a large gap between 7 and the bottom 3, and 4, 5,6 and 7 are very close. The top three are far removed from the rest.


    Brees has led the NFL in yards seven times, while also breaking the completion percentage record numerous times. Five 5000 yard seasons, all while throwing mostly to scrubs. One such season included setting a new NFL completion % record and a new yards record, while throwing 46 TDs, with his top wr being Marcus Colston, a guy who went to ZERO Pro Bowls in his career. If this was seven years ago, he would be number 1 on my list. Give him the defense Brady has had and HE is considered the GOAT with several Lombardi’s.

    Wentz might jump to the top soon. Wilson is knocking on the top 5 door and is going to be top three in a couple years.

    Not enough data on Watson and Garoppolo. Cousins is just outside that list. Mahomes could jump up there sooner rather than later.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:45 pm
  • Some commentary from Tyrann Mathieu about WIlson
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/22/tyrann-mathieu-wont-miss-facing-russell-wilson/
    At about the 7min mark.

    some quotes
    "So which player from the NFC West will Tyrann Mathieu least miss facing?

    “Russell Wilson,” Mathieu said without hesitation in a recent interview that was aired earlier today on PFT Live. “No doubt about it. He’s one of the most underrated players in the National Football League. I think if the Seattle Seahawks didn’t have him I don’t think they would be as dominant. He’s definitely one of the best players in the game.”

    “I’ve had the chance to play against him maybe 10 times already,” Mathieu said. “He’s been one of the greatest competitors. . . . One of the most comfortable players, poised players I’ve ever played against. He does things that you can’t coach. That’s what makes players special. Obviously, Seattle had a great defense, right? The last five, six years? I think they kind of overshadowed him a little bit. It’s no doubt that the guys that played against Russell Wilson, they know what kind of player he is.”
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:40 am
  • The problem with Wilson is we really do not know.

    Nobody does.

    He is often crappy in the 1st half but there have been games where we get behind and he immediately starts matching them for TDs. So it might be the weird close to the vest type of offense that holds him back. It might be the terrible line. It might be a lot of things.

    He has abilities, like the ability to throw well on the run or somehow get better vision on the run - that translate well to overcoming the issues with the line and some of the other problems with the framework of how the team is put together or applied.

    Now, if you take those away does he get immediately better?

    Well, multiple games where there are no breakdowns he still seems to have problems. But, he could be conditioned by now into bad habits. Can those be unlearned?

    His issue is consistency, not ability. But at some point this team has to make a 30M bet that he can be consistent. If he can, then maybe we have a chance - though we will have gutted the team to afford him and some of the issues he has to overcome might be magnified because of the holes in this team.

    He isn't close to elite NOW. Not in terms of consistency but he is without a doubt the most dangerous QB in the league and one of the most difficult to prepare for. If you grade him as Elite, then it has to be on potential - you would be giving him credit for all the issues he has to face and adjust them accordingly. But without regular production in the first 3 quarters, without being able to consistently deliver and carry a team like an elite QB does? No.

    Can he be elite? He seems to flash it and if he can produce like he does in flashes consistently then he can be amazing. But that those kind of projections don't always work. We are kind of stuck having to hope so though, because that is what we got.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:47 am
  • I agree with TH on a lot of the above.

    I'd love to see his consistency improve, I hope a lot of his drawbacks will be eliminated with the removal of Bevell. Lets hope!
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:08 pm
  • original poster wrote:I agree with TH on a lot of the above.

    I'd love to see his consistency improve, I hope a lot of his drawbacks will be eliminated with the removal of Bevell. Lets hope!

    Hoping and waiting is dangerous because as he gets older..The less effective he will be
    with less speed and he becomes worth less .
    That is why paying him up to 40 million scares me enough to not want that.
    We have been waiting for some time now and it hinges on a new offense?
    That is like a 50/50 thing and it shouldn't have to come to that.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:25 pm
  • If you're a stat nerd wearing a pocket protector at work with tape on your glasses or in your mother's basement, maybe not

    If you're looking at wins and how he helps his team, yes

    I'd take him over guys like Matt Ryan, Luck, and Eli Manning in a heartbeat. It's not close. He's up around Roethlisberger and Breezzze
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:54 pm
  • fire_marshall_bill wrote:If you're a stat nerd wearing a pocket protector at work with tape on your glasses or in your mother's basement, maybe not

    If you're looking at wins and how he helps his team, yes

    I'd take him over guys like Matt Ryan, Luck, and Eli Manning in a heartbeat. It's not close. He's up around Roethlisberger and Breezzze


    I am a stat nerd that wears a pocket protector at work - it checks out - statistically RW is also very good.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:17 pm


  • Yeesh after watching these clips I hope Schotty reels him in a bit. Some of these throws are not smart, which is weird because it was/is a common perception that Russ prioritizes ball security. 21 interceptable passes in 8 games is awful. I honestly think Carr syndrome is really taking hold over Russ. I hope he and the coaching staff can come up with some therapeutic playcalling and scheme to help fight it off.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:50 pm
  • Tier 1
    Tom Brady
    Aaron Rodgers
    Drew Brees

    Tier 2
    Carson Wentz
    Russell Wilson
    Matt Ryan

    If he isn't top 5, he's top 6.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:00 pm

Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:29 pm
  • adeltaY wrote:

    Yeesh after watching these clips I hope Schotty reels him in a bit. Some of these throws are not smart, which is weird because it was/is a common perception that Russ prioritizes ball security. 21 interceptable passes in 8 games is awful. I honestly think Carr syndrome is really taking hold over Russ. I hope he and the coaching staff can come up with some therapeutic playcalling and scheme to help fight it off.

    I am so tired of the so called "Carr syndrome".
    The ones who really believe in that never saw the QB's I saw get killed and they still played like always.
    They may not have played as long(granted) and as many games because there were not very many rules
    at all protecting the QB,
    Bradshaw,Favre(early years),Stabler,Fouts and Montana to name a few who took worse hits
    Than Carr ever did period ..
    Rw's problem is himself if you ask me..
    In his early years he was a game manager and that worked great but now he wants
    to be the focal point..The hero so a lot more risks come into play..
    He used to throw the ball away to avoid risky throws but now he forces them.


    The Carr excuse...Another one for RW...
    How does a Brett Favre play over 330 games(counting playoffs) straight and
    not get this?I know he was a BAD MAN..Toughest QB ever..(Saints game proved that)
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:10 pm
  • Uh huh is there any evidence to support that Wilson wants to be the focal point of the offense? Also my point about Carr syndrome isn't about taking hits. Russ takes more hits than almost any QB any year and he hasn't missed a game. I'm talking about developing bad habits. Not sure there's any QB playing right now who is tougher. Luck got hit more often, and look at what happened to him.

    Also, facing pressure makes a QB worse. It turns Tom Brady into Trevor Siemian or whatever mediocre QB by passer rating. No QB has been pressured as often within two seconds of the snap since 2012 as has Russell Wilson.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:28 pm
  • My problem with the Carr Syndrome is that it assumes Carr was worth a crap to begin with and didn't just flat out suck.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:28 pm
  • Regarless if Russ's top 5 in the league, Hawks would have been bottom 5 in the league without him.

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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:28 am
  • Seanhawk wrote:My problem with the Carr Syndrome is that it assumes Carr was worth a crap to begin with and didn't just flat out suck.

    There is that too..
    My thing was RW does not suck most of the time.
    The thing is when he does in some areas/years some will try to sneak in a Carr Syndrome excuse.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:54 pm
  • But Carr was a 1st round pick, he had to be good.

    As far as hits taken by a QB, go back and watch some 70's era football before the powder room QB protection. Any of those QB's, that roughing the passer call you see with a bump now, wasn't there, they could almost unload every time after the release.
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB?
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:34 pm
  • adeltaY wrote:

    Yeesh after watching these clips I hope Schotty reels him in a bit. Some of these throws are not smart, which is weird because it was/is a common perception that Russ prioritizes ball security. 21 interceptable passes in 8 games is awful. I honestly think Carr syndrome is really taking hold over Russ. I hope he and the coaching staff can come up with some therapeutic playcalling and scheme to help fight it off.



    In comparison to say...this?




    Russ's 6 year career does show a QB who prioritizes ball security. Even the best of Qbs make stupid passes. That's the whole point of turnovers.

    I've seen some people suggest that Carson Wentz and Big Ben are better and more consistent than Russell Wilson. I understand not believing Russell is Elite, despite how delusional that might sound to me when you measure his overall impact on the field. But to suggest Russell makes more stupid passes and mistakes than a Wentz, Big Ben, or even Brady is the very definition of trying really hard to prove a point.


    My List:

    1) Aaron Rodgers
    2) Tom Brady (Only because of reputation, consistency. I still think he benefits from a system)
    3) Russell Wilson
    4) Drew Brees (More accurate than Wilson, but can no longer take over a game the way Russ can)
    5) Big Ben

    I would put Carson Wentz or Deshaun Watson at 5 but, they haven't proven anything. Wentz also has a low completion percentage in a perfect system. The idea that he's better than Wilson is pure bias
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Re: As of now is RW top 5 QB as of now?
Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:11 pm
  • vin.couve12 wrote:
    MD5eahawks wrote:I really don't get the questioning of Russell Wilson. My god, what does he have to do!?!?

    Asking top 5 isn't questioning. It isn't a matter of what he has to do to prove...whichever. There is no such thing as unquestionable holiness so don't ask for it.

    I think the answer is YES. Based on both measurable statistics, and the court of public opinion. Russell is a one man football team at times it seems, willing to make whatever sacrafices neccessary to give his team a chance to win, even when everyone else has given up. Crazier yet he often times pulls it off. He embodies the phrase "we believe". I can't tell you how many games I've found myself screaming those 2 words down at him on the field during a game. I liked to believe he could hear me, then last year when got back home after a game and watched it again on Game Pass, I heard this crazy ole coot screaming " we believe Russell" over and over again. Then I realized that old coot was me.
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