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Interesting take on Ifedi & development curve for OTs

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  • I don't agree that Germain Ifedi should remain at RT. I'm on board with Walter Jones, who is on record as saying that Ifedi's skill set would be better served inside at guard. Ifedi is an explosive north-south player, with weak lateral agility and poor usage of his length on the outside, which means he is a guard in my eyes.

    But this is an interesting statistical analysis from Field Gulls on the standard developmental curve for NFL offensive tackles, so I thought I would post it here:
    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/23/17 ... es-pbe-pff

    On expectations of a PBE of 93.96 for second year tackles, Ifedi delivered a performance of 93.9, or just 0.06 below what would have been expected. How much better would Ifedi have needed to perform in 2017 to have met the 93.96 threshold? Based on my calculations, one less quarterback hit or hurry would have been enough to put Ifedi exactly on par with expectations.

    In short, Ifedi delivered a performance a whopping 0.035 standard deviations behind the learning curve, which for a player who entered the NFL as extremely raw fundamentally is somewhat impressive.

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    So in essence, Ifedi was almost average for a 2nd-year tackle. But are we really striving for average? And what happens when you factor in all the false starts and holds that were at least partially a result of Ifedi anticipating being beaten to the outside?
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    hawknation2018
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  • Interesting statistics.
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  • Our problemed child played RG in his first season before moving to RT in his second. He wasn't any good at RG either, I would let him competite for RT and hope that he will improve under new coaching.
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  • toffee wrote:Our problemed child played RG in his first season before moving to RT in his second. He wasn't any good at RG either, I would let him competite for RT and hope that he will improve under new coaching.


    Rated worst in the league at guard I believe.
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  • He really isn't bad at all in pass protection, its run protection he really struggles with.

    I've been saying for a while now that I think Ifedi will be Britt 2.0.
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  • Maybe he can improve under Solari but I think I’ve seen enough.

    I’d prefer to see him gone. Too many penalties. Too many Russell Wilson splatters. Too little discipline.
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  • Plus, the teams cap would go down if they cut him.

    He's one of the safest players on the roster.
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  • That's a good point. According to this data anyway for pass blocking efficiency, Ifedi is about average for where he's supposed to be for a 2nd year Tackle. Only, it was his first year at Tackle.

    My guess is Ifedi will really start to put things together in about his fourth year, and then someone else will sign him for a lot of money in the off season lol.
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  • I think he starts....at tackle.

    I don't know where he ranks in pass blocking, but we know Fluker is a great road blocking freight train, but struggles in pass blocking. Solari may overlook this because we signed Fluker knowing his weaknesses.

    At least Ifedi fits Solari's one requirement: size. Out of curiosity I looked at the 2017 NYG OLine and this included: John Jerry (6-5 349) and Erick Flowers (6-5 324). Ifedi is 6-6 324.
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  • Guy is a physical freak. Wish he could transfer that onto the field.
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  • This is a good read . It's an article that features Ray Roberts' comments on Seattle's Oline, including Germain Ifedi's and Duane Brown's pass pro faulty techniques taught by Cable.

    https://chawktalk.com/2018/01/11/o-line ... more-10795

    What I also recall from listening live is Ray made the point that there was a vast difference in Ifedi's technique in college vs. what he diplayed last year at RT. He played with his arms extended so he had no punch to stop a bull rusher... and that his feet were much quicker in college than the retreat technique that Cable required of his tackles.

    Looking forward to Solari's influence. Hopefully he will let his linemen play to their strengths and not dictate techniques that are passive and soft.
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  • It's almost laughable to see many posters making the same mistakes they did with Unger and Britt with Ifedi.

    Both Unger and Britt struggled through 2 years of playing. There was a significant contingent on here saying they were trash and that they had "seen enough."

    Only to have in years 3+ these 2 guys blossom as above average to pro-bowl caliber players. I think it's completely premature to label Ifedi a bust. I think we've got to see what he does in year 3 (2nd year at the same spot.)

    Certainly it's possible he plateau and never reach his potential. It's also quite possible he takes another step forward and gives us productive play at RT.

    I'lm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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  • jlwaters1 wrote:It's almost laughable to see many posters making the same mistakes they did with Unger and Britt with Ifedi.

    Both Unger and Britt struggled through 2 years of playing. There was a significant contingent on here saying they were trash and that they had "seen enough."

    Only to have in years 3+ these 2 guys blossom as above average to pro-bowl caliber players. I think it's completely premature to label Ifedi a bust. I think we've got to see what he does in year 3 (2nd year at the same spot.)

    Certainly it's possible he plateau and never reach his potential. It's also quite possible he takes another step forward and gives us productive play at RT.

    I'lm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


    This X1000.

    Ifedi is the scape goat of this line, and it's unjust.
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  • The observed regression of Duane Brown really makes me think Cable was a big part of the problem. Was it Mudd or Ballard that noted this? Can't remember.

    At any rate, I hope and kind of expect big leaps from people like Ifedi, Britt, Pocic and others with Solari.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:But are we really striving for average?


    For the O-line

    YES!! - that would be awesome. Would be so happy with an average o-line
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  • The year 2 to year 3 jump in that graph is crazy!
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  • toffee wrote:Our problemed child played RG in his first season before moving to RT in his second. He wasn't any good at RG either, I would let him competite for RT and hope that he will improve under new coaching.

    I agree....He gets Drafted fairly high, with the intention of UNDOING his fundamentals that were coached in College, and then gets discombobulated and re-coached to play Cable's ZB scheme, >technique< gets ignored, he then gets moved over to Tackle where he continues on with his struggles & crappy technique and people are surprised that there was no progression. lol
    I think we'll find out soon enough if Solari can break him of his bad habits, or at least that's what I'm hoping for.
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  • HawkGA wrote:The year 2 to year 3 jump in that graph is crazy!


    Yeah, all the way from just under 94 to 94.5? Is that even significant? What does it really mean?

    All I know for sure is what my eyes tell me - Ifedi has been terrible. For anyone to think he will suddenly turn into Max Unger? Well, that’s extremely wishful thinking.
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  • original poster wrote:I've been saying for a while now that I think Ifedi will be Britt 2.0.


    :sarcasm_on: Ahhhhh ... if only we could have TWO centers. :mrgreen:
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:
    original poster wrote:I've been saying for a while now that I think Ifedi will be Britt 2.0.


    :sarcasm_on: Ahhhhh ... if only we could have TWO centers. :mrgreen:


    Three with Pocic :)
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  • jlwaters1 wrote:It's almost laughable to see many posters making the same mistakes they did with Unger and Britt with Ifedi.

    Both Unger and Britt struggled through 2 years of playing. There was a significant contingent on here saying they were trash and that they had "seen enough."

    Only to have in years 3+ these 2 guys blossom as above average to pro-bowl caliber players. I think it's completely premature to label Ifedi a bust. I think we've got to see what he does in year 3 (2nd year at the same spot.)

    Certainly it's possible he plateau and never reach his potential. It's also quite possible he takes another step forward and gives us productive play at RT.

    I'lm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


    It's the new, online, instant gratification world. Historically, everyone expected it took 2-3 years for most players to even develop into starters. RB's can often step right in, and maybe linebackers and pure pass rushers to a certain extent but, when I was growing up it was just a given that QB's, O-Line, WR's, etc... took time to develop. When I see everyone ready to throw guys away as bums halfway thru their rookie seasons, it's dumbfounding.

    I think this year is either the breakout year for Ifedi, or where we find out he's JAG. But, you don't find that out in season 1, and usually not even in season 2.
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  • I will take an average O-Line at this point. Hopefully Ifedi and the rest of the crew will make some improvements this year. Last season was unacceptable. Save us Solari!
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  • It sounds like it's pretty obvious what should happen. Ifedi and Fluker at guard, Brown at LT and let Pocic, Fant and rookie fight it out for RT.
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  • The issue I had with Ifedi was the penalties.

    For whatever reason, his focus mentally was terrible last year. If he could cut down on the penalties, critics like myself would shut up.
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  • This article can be summed up like this:

    Blah, blah, blah, Cable's constant switching of players has stunted their development.

    Ifedi should be entering his 3rd year at one position. The guy is built like a guard and should stay there.
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  • Jerhawk wrote:The issue I had with Ifedi was the penalties.

    For whatever reason, his focus mentally was terrible last year. If he could cut down on the penalties, critics like myself would shut up.


    If Ifedi could keep the penalties under control, he would have been average. That would have been pretty good for a sophomore RT.
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  • imnKOgnito wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:It's almost laughable to see many posters making the same mistakes they did with Unger and Britt with Ifedi.

    Both Unger and Britt struggled through 2 years of playing. There was a significant contingent on here saying they were trash and that they had "seen enough."

    Only to have in years 3+ these 2 guys blossom as above average to pro-bowl caliber players. I think it's completely premature to label Ifedi a bust. I think we've got to see what he does in year 3 (2nd year at the same spot.)

    Certainly it's possible he plateau and never reach his potential. It's also quite possible he takes another step forward and gives us productive play at RT.

    I'lm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


    It's the new, online, instant gratification world. Historically, everyone expected it took 2-3 years for most players to even develop into starters. RB's can often step right in, and maybe linebackers and pure pass rushers to a certain extent but, when I was growing up it was just a given that QB's, O-Line, WR's, etc... took time to develop. When I see everyone ready to throw guys away as bums halfway thru their rookie seasons, it's dumbfounding.

    I think this year is either the breakout year for Ifedi, or where we find out he's JAG. But, you don't find that out in season 1, and usually not even in season 2.

    BS! It’s the fact that our brain trust trotted 3 or 4 of these developmental projects out there at the same time! There is no time for development there. It killed our offense.
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  • original poster wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:It's almost laughable to see many posters making the same mistakes they did with Unger and Britt with Ifedi.

    Both Unger and Britt struggled through 2 years of playing. There was a significant contingent on here saying they were trash and that they had "seen enough."

    Only to have in years 3+ these 2 guys blossom as above average to pro-bowl caliber players. I think it's completely premature to label Ifedi a bust. I think we've got to see what he does in year 3 (2nd year at the same spot.)

    Certainly it's possible he plateau and never reach his potential. It's also quite possible he takes another step forward and gives us productive play at RT.

    I'lm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


    This X1000.

    Ifedi is the scape goat of this line, and it's unjust.



    Now I have to disagree with you on this. It is not unjust. He was a 1st rd pick, and he still doesn't show much sign of improving. I will give him 1 more year under Solari before I through out the bust card, but with his athletic ability he hasn't shown much, he isn't dominant in run blocking, he isn't dominant in pass blocking, he is a penalty machine, drawing false starts or holding penalties :pukeface: I hope he can figure it out this year or he can get on the train with Joekel.
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  • jlwaters1 wrote:It's almost laughable to see many posters making the same mistakes they did with Unger and Britt with Ifedi.

    Both Unger and Britt struggled through 2 years of playing. There was a significant contingent on here saying they were trash and that they had "seen enough."

    Only to have in years 3+ these 2 guys blossom as above average to pro-bowl caliber players. I think it's completely premature to label Ifedi a bust. I think we've got to see what he does in year 3 (2nd year at the same spot.)

    Certainly it's possible he plateau and never reach his potential. It's also quite possible he takes another step forward and gives us productive play at RT.

    I'lm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


    ^^^ Good points.

    Impatience is often blind to the development process and Seahawk mission. Ifedi is only 23 years of age. He'll turn 24 on June 2nd. He has started the last 29 consecutive regular season games during his first two years. On field experience both on the inside and out. With Solari back in the fold, all signs point to positive growth and development.
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  • Look at that bell curve on the diagram. It shows that at best our online development plan got players to an acceptable point about the time their contract was up and we could no longer afford to keep them.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:Look at that bell curve on the diagram. It shows that at best our online development plan got players to an acceptable point about the time their contract was up and we could no longer afford to keep them.


    I brought this up 2 years ago. Their entire plan to play cheap linemen and blow our draft assets is setup to fail for that exact reason.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    brimsalabim wrote:Look at that bell curve on the diagram. It shows that at best our online development plan got players to an acceptable point about the time their contract was up and we could no longer afford to keep them.


    I brought this up 2 years ago. Their entire plan to play cheap linemen and blow our draft assets is setup to fail for that exact reason.


    With Duane Brown, Justin Britt, and D.J. Fluker on the roster, there should be a healthy mix now of veterans and draft prospects.

    Personally, I think Fluker looks a lot more natural at tackle than guard. Even though he's not quick or explosive, he has this uncanny ability to use footwork and amazing length to corral outside pass rushers. He could be OK at guard, but he doesn't mirror that well inside, making him prone to quick counter moves. On the outside, it seems he either use his length to reign them in when they go long or they hit a brick wall going back inside. Fluker just looks more comfortable at RT.
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  • Can we give Solari a chance to develop our OLine?

    Because, we gave Cable free reign on trying everything.

    We drafted OLinemen.
    We drafted Dlinemen and move them over to O.
    We signed a former 1st RD pick.
    We signed vets
    We shuffled OLinemen from position to position.
    We moved a TE to OT
    The final step was trading for a Pro Bowl tackle.

    Nothing worked.

    The only thing we didn't do is replace the coach. Maybe a new philosophy, a new set of eyes may improve this OLine.
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  • :shock:
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  • I don't think Britt has been nearly as good as Unger was at the height of his powers.
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