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Kam's tweet

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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:45 am
  • Players calling out the Offense is a bad look, even from our favorite players. Doesn't exactly scream team guy. And Kam has always been a team guy. What does it prove to call out ANY part of the team, let alone the offense? I don't give a rip if it's 2018, and this is what guys do now on Twitter etc. Still not acceptable to just call out your teammates.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:30 am
  • It is important to point out that Kam never called out any PLAYER from the offense.

    I think it was more a lament that a defense like that would have done amazing things with even an average producing offense. Sure the offensive #s were not as horrible as you would expect, but that is because variance was so great.

    Whenever someone points to the aggregate #s to justify why the defense has no reason to complain, I know they are an idiot. Because the problem is that these are human beings, no video game players. They tire. They get frustrated. In some instances they lose hope (watch the reaction on the sideline to some of those 3 and outs).

    By the midpoint of the 3rd quarter when the offense started to bother to produce, the defense was often ground down.

    Sure they sometimes gave up scores at the end of games, because they were depleted in the 1st half.

    And average TOP for the 1st half won't really show the #s because the team gets more possessions, you have to look at the average TOP per DRIVE in the 1st half and given the massive # of 3 and outs....it wasn't good.

    Either way, it is pretty clear this was not a callout but a lament. That defense is dead. It isn't coming back.

    Carroll does not have the ability or time to build a new one with the players we have available. So we have to find other ways to win, either figure out how to win with the QB because we already replaced a number of great players with guys that are not great. And likely won't be, but maybe they will be good. Who knows? Still the strategy of putting the game on the shoulders of the defense while the offense comes alive in the 2nd half won't work anymore.

    We have a QB that should be able to be able to be leveraged as the primary mechanism to win games. It is frustrating they only bother to focus on using him adequately when they fall behind or in the 4th.

    And changing to focus on offense might be good because that other plan was garbage football to watch. I quit going to games because of it, and I love defense.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:40 am
  • you drew all that from a vague one sentence tweet?
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:51 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Until the defense gets 3/4 of the cap, then the offense is not pulling its weight when the defense is doing 3/4 of the work.

    And 54% of the cap is barely 'a majority'.

    The simple truth is the QB is eating a tremendous amount of the offensive spend but not producing a tremendous amount. That needs to change.



    Not really think about this.. 54% + the QB= 60% or more + Special teams that probably puts it at 62% So that means for all the rest of the offense they had 38% give or take for the offense. That's a sizable difference in what you can pay for the "rest" of the offense surrounding RW.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:59 am
  • Well then you better get your money's worth from the QB since he is chewing up that much of the cap on offense, right?

    Makes no sense to pay a QB big $ and then literally barely use him (as far as results) for 3/4 of the game. If the QB needs so much of your spend that you cannot get results with him because the rest of the team is stripped bare? Then he isn't worth the money.

    But that is not the case, we had a QB that COULD produce but inexplicably chose not to create a gameplan that maximized his chances to score in ALL quarters. So we squandered all this spend for a guy that only brings results in the 4th, but only because we only put him in a position to do so until the 4th.

    You don't get to spend on a QB, get no results from the QB for a fair % of the time, then complain that the reason you cannot get the results you need is because you are spending that much on the QB. The QB is paid that amount because he gets results. If he does not, then he isn't worth the money. At that point, spend less on the QB and more on the rest of the offense. (Or just use the QB you have and are spending money on for all freaking 4 quarters)

    I've seen our QB produce in the 1st half when we get behind, so I am chalking this up to the stupidity of our coaching staff than some magical barrier that prevents our QB from being good until 3 quarters later.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:



    Yes Kam, it's called "turnovers."

    They even break it down into turnovers on your side or your opponents side of the field.............AND even turnovers in the red zone.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:30 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:you drew all that from a vague one sentence tweet?


    That is the cool thing about using mechanical pencils! One light press and you just keep on drawing more pictures without having to stop and sharpen it.:twisted:
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 am
  • Pretty clear that Wilson people are taking this as a direct assault against Wilson. Everyone knows how high a percentage of the offense that Wilson was last year. We also know, or sane people know rather, that can't happen again.

    This is why Wilson freaks are moot. You're fans of a player more so than fans of the Seahawks or even the sport itself.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:00 am
  • It's a shot at the offense in general. What does it prove and/or accomplish?
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:08 am
  • Vin,

    Maybe you are right. That said, the whole 'Wilson is 83% of the offense' crap irritates me.

    It isn't true and it gets annoying.

    But I don't think Kam was taking a shot at Wilson.

    He was pointing out (rightfully) that his defense got little to no help from the offense.

    Seems reasonable because the defense was proud of their accomplishments, got blamed when they slipped, and never got much credit for the games they saved because Wilson finally started scoring in the 4th.

    But I don't think that was Wilson's fault. And I don't think he was taking aim at Wilson. Even though he sometimes deserves it.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:26 am
  • Ok just throwing out an idea... What if Kam heard about news of early getting traded and is just upset about it? Wouldn't shock me if something is already in place or close and Earl/Kam have talked about it.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:35 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Vin,

    Maybe you are right. That said, the whole 'Wilson is 83% of the offense' crap irritates me.

    It isn't true and it gets annoying.


    Wait, since when is this not true?

    Even if it's not statistically 100% correct, anybody who watched the '17 Hawks knows it was the Russell Wilson show on offense.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:43 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:Ok just throwing out an idea... What if Kam heard about news of early getting traded and is just upset about it? Wouldn't shock me if something is already in place or close and Earl/Kam have talked about it.


    idk, Kam's doesn't usually tweet like Richard all butthurt trying to incite.

    My guess is this is just him being genuinely curious about there being a defensive stat. But of course as fans, we have to try and read into it and turn it negative.

    Who cares, dude isn't even going to play this year, and we'll cut Kam next year when his dead cap drops to 5M.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:48 am
  • I don't think it IS Wilson's fault. Basically every QB should be a playmaking game manager, IMO.

    But that's not the point. Kam isn't specifically attacking Wilson. The week before this tweet he was with the rest of the LOB at Sherm's wedding. Now, Kam should probably keep this to himself, but it still might as well be as true as 2+2=4.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:03 pm
  • If this tweet pissed you off ... well the truth hurts I guess. nobody really wants to see that stat
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Re: Kam's tweet
Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:51 pm
  • Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.

    Defense had all the money -- all the defensive players got paid. Offensive players that weren't going to sign on a "bargain deal" --- Golden Tate, Sweeny, Okung, et. got released...

    That told me "we are putting this on the defense"

    And what does the defense do after they got all the money and the star acclaim?

    Show leadership?

    Move on from things that happened in the past, as ALL GOOD LEADERS DO.

    Nope.... they endlessly bitched, sat there and stewed and dwelled on one play call in the past, and blew this team apart and ensured themselves a ticket out of town.

    Legion of Boom may have been great players, but they FAILED, utterly failed as championship style leaders.

    Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

    That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

    Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

    Nope, he actually defended them!

    He always had their backs.

    Did they show him the same consideration in return?

    Hell no.

    That tells me EVERYTHING about what their characters are. I really, really, loved that defense but now it's tainted for me, because it's obvious those players were a bunch of spoiled little babies, and I will always think of them that way.

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Re: Kam's tweet
Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:53 pm
  • Very good points. Pete has allowed these guys to be who they are and do things that very few if any coach would have.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:51 am
  • Extremely well put Z-man.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:23 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Until the defense gets 3/4 of the cap, then the offense is not pulling its weight when the defense is doing 3/4 of the work.

    And 54% of the cap is barely 'a majority'.

    The simple truth is the QB is eating a tremendous amount of the offensive spend but not producing a tremendous amount. That needs to change.

    Not producing a tremendous amount? What QB were you watching?
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:28 am
  • The_Z_Man wrote:Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.

    Defense had all the money -- all the defensive players got paid. Offensive players that weren't going to sign on a "bargain deal" --- Golden Tate, Sweeny, Okung, et. got released...

    That told me "we are putting this on the defense"

    And what does the defense do after they got all the money and the star acclaim?

    Show leadership?

    Move on from things that happened in the past, as ALL GOOD LEADERS DO.

    Nope.... they endlessly bitched, sat there and stewed and dwelled on one play call in the past, and blew this team apart and ensured themselves a ticket out of town.

    Legion of Boom may have been great players, but they FAILED, utterly failed as championship style leaders.

    Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

    That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

    Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

    Nope, he actually defended them!

    He always had their backs.

    Did they show him the same consideration in return?

    Hell no.

    That tells me EVERYTHING about what their characters are. I really, really, loved that defense but now it's tainted for me, because it's obvious those players were a bunch of spoiled little babies, and I will always think of them that way.

    LOB, great players, spoiled babies and finger pointers.

    While I agree with you, I’d like to point out that Ray Lewis was the only player on that team that was around for that ‘other’ ring. If I’m not mistaken, he was the only person in the entire organization that was around. Even the owner was different. But you are correct in saying he never complained about the offense.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:06 am
  • The_Z_Man wrote:Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.


    They did win a SUPER BOWL.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:32 am
  • The_Z_Man wrote:Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.


    Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison. Even Ray would probably complain if he played hurt for an entire Super Bowl and his team was in position to win and then his coach threw it all away with one of the worst (if not THE) play calls in the history of sports.

    That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.


    The defense tried, but the coaching staff and offense guaranteed that opportunity would never come, hence the tweet.

    Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?


    He allowed one of his staff to do that exact thing with no repercussions. Same thing.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 am
  • I really thought Kam was one of the good guys. He always seemed to have high character and although stood with his LOB brothers still seemed to support Wilson. I hope this was not what I think it was because I would really love to see Kam continue his career with us (if he can even play ball again).
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:13 pm
  • The way I interpreted it, was that he was simply asking, if statisticians monitored and compiled any stats, on how many points scored by NFL teams, were initiated as a result of their defense, i.e. interceptions, fumble recoveries, safeties, touch downs, etc...

    I've noted that in the last couple of seasons, there has been a steady decline by our defense, who had traditionally and consistently, accounted for many of our points scored, and the majority of our wins. Another observation I've made over the past couple of seasons, was that our defense, was also less able to prevent our opponents from scoring points, especially when it mattered the most. The combination of these two factors are, in my humble opinion what has kept us out of Super Bowl contention the past couple of seasons.

    We've all watched Seahawk games in past years, where our opponents managed to get a small lead over us in the first half, only to have our defense stop them dead in their tracks from scoring any more points, and then force turnovers, giving Russell Wilson, the magic man, opportunities to do what he does best, and that is giving us another one of his come from behind, miracle wins.

    The past couple of seasons, our defense has not been able to do it's part, allowing the opponents to score more points than they ever have before, fewer turnovers and creating point deficits, that even the Magic Man couldn't overcome. It seemed that every time Russell would manage to get us back in the game, that our defense would fail to prevent our opponents from scoring again and allowing them back into the lead.

    I know that Blair Walsh, didn't help our cause and cost us three or four games, that we surely would have won had he succeeded, , but even in those games, the scores should never have been so close, that we were left dependent upon his kick to decide the final outcome. We all knew that if the kick really mattered that Walsh would surely miss it. It's sad, if it didn't matter, he would nail it every time. He simply folded under pressure, and because of his performance II do value the kicker position much more than I ever did before.

    I am really hopeful, that in the off-season, with all the changes that were made in our defensive lineup, that we can get our Boom back. I know that a lot of people try and define the Legion of Boom as being a cast of characters, but it is in fact, the finished product of a defensive philosophy and strategy, orchestrated by Pete Carroll, and implemented under his guidance by his defensive coordinators, at this time Ken Norton and company.

    I believe, that is why Pete, went after Ken and his assistant defensive coach, during this off season. Ken was instrumental in the construction of Pete's Original Legion of Boom Defense, and if there was anyone could resuscitate it, Ken Norton is most certainly the right man for that job.

    I am a big Kam Chancellor fan, and I didn't interpret anything in his tweet as being disrespectful to the Seahawks team or management, I believe he was pointing out the obvious, by highlighting the fact that when our Defense is playing like he knows it's capable of playing, that they are a major game outcome changer for us, and that our success in past years was as dependent if not more dependent upon the defense than it was and still is on the Magic Man and our offense.

    It's a team sport and in order to be successful, you have to have all your parts working together. If Pete is successful in resuscitating the Legion of Boom, and at long last, successful in crafting an offense, that can protect Russell Wilson, and at the same time deliver both run and pass protection, as it appears is his intention at present, we could conceivably have reason to believe that we might very well find ourselves in the 2019 Super Bowl.

    I'm so looking forward to a "Kiss The Baby" season where the Seattle Seahawks shut all the hyper critical talking heads out there, who are so quick to toss us under the bus, "The Legion of Boom is dead !, the Seahawks have no offense, their battling cap issues and lost all their key players and the list goes on". These are the same critics, in the media and in the forums who were screaming all the same "sky is falling" rhetoric, back when Pete and John first took over, and cleaned house, refueling with free agency and draft picks back then.


    On a closing note, I don't and won't assume that Kam won't play again, this season, or any other. I take him at his word, that if the doctors will clear him to play that he will. I don't know if fans understand that if the doctors don't clear an athlete to play, they can't play. Kam has been adamant from the onset, that "if the doctors will clear him to play, that he will play, that he is not ready to retire yet, he still has a passion for the game and feels he still has a lot left to offer".

    I can't say that I see the same fire and passion from Cliff Avril that I see from Kam. Cliff seems pretty much of the mind, that if the doctors tell him there is even the slightest possibility of a re-injury, that he is "going to put his family first" and play it safe by retiring. Every player that takes the field in an NFL game runs the risk of this same injury occuring to them. For that matter any of us that ever played football at any level have experienced neck related stingers, where we went numb for a few and worried that we had really messed something up, only to have it dissipate after while and we were back on the field for the next play.

    As I read through this thread today I couldn't help but reflect on Marshawn Lynch, when he finally got so fed up with everyone misinterpreting just about everything he said, twisting his words around and using them to demonize him, and finally in response, simply refused to talk to the press anymore. It seems all to many people are all to quick, to look for, and find the worst in people, and if that is what your looking for, its easy to find. Look for the good in people and its just as easy to find too.

    Go back and read Kam's tweet, this time looking for the good in the man and his words, and I think you'll discover it reads entirely different than the way a lot of folks interpreted it.

    I guess only time will tell. Go Seahawks!
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:31 pm
  • I wish people were more appreciative of what players like Kam, Sherman, Bennett, etc. accomplished for their team.

    No need to trash them when they're gone or done.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:20 am
  • hawknation2018 wrote:I wish people were more appreciative of what players like Kam, Sherman, Bennett, etc. accomplished for their team. No need to trash them when they're gone or done.

    I respect the sentiment behind this and think fans are often overly critical of players. It's been just long enough since the Super Bowl win that the initial shine has worn off but not long enough for the rose colored glasses to come out. That being said, every player is different and some have been more team oriented than others.

    Of the three you mentioned I have the best feelings towards Bennett. He signed a prove it deal here, proved it, then signed a team friendly extension despite his rhetoric at the time. And while he was injured a lot over the last couple of years he suited up and played a lot better than people around here immediately remember. When we did move on from him due to locker room stuff it was with a trade as other teams out there thought he could contribute up to or exceeding his salary.

    I'm more neutral on Kam. I loved what he brought to the team but we made him the highest paid SS in return and then his holdout was the defining story of our entire 2015 season. Our defense didn't look good until week 7 or so and by that time we just had too much ground to make up even though we finished out 8-2. I have no problem with players looking after their own interests but I'm also not going to give them any accolades for it. It's a shame that his career appears to be ending here on a note where everybody would take a retirement announcement as great news. This tweet isn't the end of the world or anything, but it certainly isn't helping the team and you would think that could at least be a minor concern to him with a 9.5m cap hit and no sign that he'll be suiting up this year.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:02 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

    And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

    Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

    Nope...

    He got the team together and said this to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


    If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:12 pm
  • Anybody that thinks that the defense lacks legitimate reason to be annoyed with our offense over the past few years doesn't understand football very well. It does not have much to do with the balance of income. Intelligent use of offensive resources was BY FAR the biggest impediment to offensive success.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:44 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

    And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

    Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

    Nope...

    He got the team together and said this to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


    If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.


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Re: Kam's tweet
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:25 pm
  • 907Hawk wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

    And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

    Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

    Nope...

    He got the team together and said this to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


    If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.


    Z Man for the Win, football is a team sport and it takes everyone moving in to same direction to win.


    You still can't compare them because one was a miss by a kicker which happens more often than a really stupid decision by the coaching staff. That also wasn't at the end of a Superbowl and it would have only ended up in a tie. Our defense out performed that Ravens team because our defense because our offense has been more pathetic the last 4 years than even the Trent Dilfer offense. Being a blind homer makes it hard to truly appreciate how great of a defense we had even for how much money was invested in them.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:34 am
  • strohmin wrote:
    907Hawk wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

    And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

    Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

    Nope...

    He got the team together and said this to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


    If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.


    Z Man for the Win, football is a team sport and it takes everyone moving in to same direction to win.


    You still can't compare them because one was a miss by a kicker which happens more often than a really stupid decision by the coaching staff. That also wasn't at the end of a Superbowl and it would have only ended up in a tie. Our defense out performed that Ravens team because our defense because our offense has been more pathetic the last 4 years than even the Trent Dilfer offense. Being a blind homer makes it hard to truly appreciate how great of a defense we had even for how much money was invested in them.



    Go back and look at the points that our offense put up the past two seasons in particular, because that is the period of time when I asserted that our defense was slipping on their job, and allowing our opponents to score to many points for our offense to overcome, way more often than in previous seasons.

    Russell and his offense were putting numbers on the score boards that in past seasons were enough to provide us with wins, but when your defense isn’t able to hold ground and deny our opponents from getting into field goal range, converting on 3rd downs, and scoring additional touchdowns, than was the case 3 and 4 seasons ago, Russell’s points scored in almost every game, respectable scores, simply were not enough to overcome the failures of our defense to provide us the same level of play that they had been.

    I’m not kicking players around, but Sherm, Bennett, Kam, Avril, Earl, and even Richardson’s knee injury hampered their ability to “Lower the Boom”, and contributed a lot more to our losses than our Offense, as poor as it performed. They did put up about the same final scores as they always have, mostly due to Russell’s never say die efforts and mantaility.

    These are my observations, and I realize that not everyone will agree. Give us back our “Legion of Boom” defense, and the return of a meaningful run game, and I see us at the 2019 Super Bowl.

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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:11 am
  • Win as a team lose as a team. The D has contributed to losing, just like the offense has. They are not above criticism, even if they think they are.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:13 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Win as a team lose as a team. The D has contributed to losing, just like the offense has. They are not above criticism, even if they think they are.


    Best summary of what it's been like since '49. Defense was paid higher and performed better, but had failures here and there. The offense overall was paid much less and had more consistent failures. The offensive line was consistently garbage.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:44 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

    And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

    Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

    Nope...

    He got the team together and said this to them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


    If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.


    Your comparing a missed FG (not even a Super Bowl mind you), to 'The Play'? That's a horrible example.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:08 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Win as a team lose as a team. The D has contributed to losing, just like the offense has. They are not above criticism, even if they think they are.



    So the offense if they played for 3 quarters and the defense allowed points every possession we would win?
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:48 pm
  • MD5eahawks wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.

    Defense had all the money -- all the defensive players got paid. Offensive players that weren't going to sign on a "bargain deal" --- Golden Tate, Sweeny, Okung, et. got released...

    That told me "we are putting this on the defense"

    And what does the defense do after they got all the money and the star acclaim?

    Show leadership?

    Move on from things that happened in the past, as ALL GOOD LEADERS DO.

    Nope.... they endlessly bitched, sat there and stewed and dwelled on one play call in the past, and blew this team apart and ensured themselves a ticket out of town.

    Legion of Boom may have been great players, but they FAILED, utterly failed as championship style leaders.

    Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

    That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

    Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

    Nope, he actually defended them!

    He always had their backs.

    Did they show him the same consideration in return?

    Hell no.

    That tells me EVERYTHING about what their characters are. I really, really, loved that defense but now it's tainted for me, because it's obvious those players were a bunch of spoiled little babies, and I will always think of them that way.

    LOB, great players, spoiled babies and finger pointers.

    While I agree with you, I’d like to point out that Ray Lewis was the only player on that team that was around for that ‘other’ ring. If I’m not mistaken, he was the only person in the entire organization that was around. Even the owner was different. But you are correct in saying he never complained about the offense.

    That's because he was all about being a TEAM PLAYER.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:59 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Anybody that thinks that the defense lacks legitimate reason to be annoyed with our offense over the past few years doesn't understand football very well. It does not have much to do with the balance of income. Intelligent use of offensive resources was BY FAR the biggest impediment to offensive success.

    Fact is, when the Seahawks won 49, they had one of the highest paid Offenses in the League, after 50, the majority of the payola went to the Defense, and the lowballed Offense has been on a steady decline ever since....That's why Cable & Bevell were sent down the road kicking horse turds. LOL
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Re: Kam's tweet
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:40 pm
  • Scutterhawk, your post is not a fact. It is an assumption.

    Here are the facts

    Last year, in the 1st and 2nd quarters the Seahawks were near the bottom of the league in scoring TDs. Interestingly, they were one of the worst teams in the league in the 2nd quarter and in the 1st at least the bottom quarter. We averaged a little over a TD PER HALF last year. (Behind only Denver, Cleveland and Miami....all teams without effective QBs but we supposedly had one.)

    Here is another fact, in the 3rd and 4th quarters the Seahawks were near the top. In fact, the Seahawks were the #1 team in the league at 2nd half scoring last year.

    Which leads to the reasonable conclusion that there was no systemic reason the Hawks could not score in the 1st half. We were not 'starving' the offense, we were fasting. So the reason we had problems scoring last year in the 1st half was because we never bothered trying in a focused way. Which pisses me off.

    As Roland pointed out and the stats agree with, it was not a lack of offensive resources but a lack of intelligent use of them for the full half (this is doubly frustrating because we all know the team never bothered turning on the scoring until midway through the 3rd....).

    It was a lack of urgency combined with a belief (from the highest level down) that the 1st half scoring was not important. Shocking, we rarely bothered with it.

    And we didn't lose the offensive players because we paid the defensive players. We lost the offensive players because the FO made stupid decisions like Harvin and Graham that took money we could have used to pay our players with. Specifically Tate, would was a bargain at what he signed with Detroit for considering how badly it hurt the offense in losing him.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:09 am
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.


    They did win a SUPER BOWL.

    Would have been 2 in a row if it wasn’t for a brain dead OC. Just sayin’!
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!

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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:41 am
  • The_Z_Man wrote:Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.

    Defense had all the money -- all the defensive players got paid. Offensive players that weren't going to sign on a "bargain deal" --- Golden Tate, Sweeny, Okung, et. got released...

    That told me "we are putting this on the defense"

    And what does the defense do after they got all the money and the star acclaim?

    Show leadership?

    Move on from things that happened in the past, as ALL GOOD LEADERS DO.

    Nope.... they endlessly bitched, sat there and stewed and dwelled on one play call in the past, and blew this team apart and ensured themselves a ticket out of town.

    Legion of Boom may have been great players, but they FAILED, utterly failed as championship style leaders.

    Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

    That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

    Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

    Nope, he actually defended them!

    He always had their backs.

    Did they show him the same consideration in return?

    Hell no.

    That tells me EVERYTHING about what their characters are. I really, really, loved that defense but now it's tainted for me, because it's obvious those players were a bunch of spoiled little babies, and I will always think of them that way.

    LOB, great players, spoiled babies and finger pointers.


    If you're blaming the defense for this downfall you need to watch more football. Seahawks offense has been god awful doing little to nothing until the 4th quarter. Basically leaving the Defense on the field the whole game. Time of possession was lopsided as all hell.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:55 am
  • We had a top ten defense, but they were forced to defense 190 drives. Only AZ (EDIT: And Jacksonville) were worse, I believe. (But Jacksonville tended to defend with a lead, which means it was far easier for them)

    The only thing they were average in at all was, ironically, generating turnovers. And they did give up a fair amount of FGS (you could argue that the offense put them in position to protect short fields though).

    The areas they were weak in makes sense because of the sheer # of drives they have to stop. They also, on average, were defending without a lead. So they essentially had to keep the game close.

    People that blame the defense either don't know football or have some weird obsession with wanting to give the offense the benefit of the doubt even though it rarely earned it.
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:01 am
  • The D had a part in last season, probably more so because of the lack of time of possession by the offense. But certainly the Offense was much more of a problem. And the play calling :pukeface:
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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:16 pm
  • RCATES wrote:If you're blaming the defense for this downfall you need to watch more football. Seahawks offense has been god awful doing little to nothing until the 4th quarter. Basically leaving the Defense on the field the whole game. Time of possession was lopsided as all hell.


    People really don't bother to read on this forum anymore... they just start typing blah blah blah before actually considering what the post said.

    What did I say?

    Was it the PLAY of the defense I critiqued?

    Nope.

    It was leadership.

    The defensive leaders on this team, that got the checks, that had the influence, and all the press attention, quite frankly didn't show good leadership. They FAILED at it, time and time again. They had temper tantrums on sidelines, they had fights with the offense and fights with each other, and all out brawls in practice that got our team penalized in the draft. Running to other teams locker-rooms on multiple occasions, and on and on.

    Poor leadership, that was my criticism.

    And before we get too awestruck about how "historically great" this defense was... it really wasn't the last few years.

    Man, their 3rd down defense sucked.

    How many times did we see them giving up 3rd and 10's, 3rd and 15's, even 3rd and 20's or 25's... I mean, what the hell was up with that? It wasn't JUST the offense that caused the TOP issue, it was that the defense just could not freaking stop other teams on third down....

    Look at the stats. They were the 2nd worst 3rd down defense in the entire NFL last year, and pretty bad the year before that as well.

    Can you imagine if our offense was 2nd worst at something in the entire NFL... the total hate and bitching on these forums would be relentless... but the defense completely sucks at something and suddenly memories get selective.

    Yea, the only problem we ever had was "offensive playcalling"....

    You act like the defense was just magnificent and giving the offense the ball on the opponents side of the field like it was in the early days, but the fact is this defense wasn't getting turnovers like it did in the early days and that was part of the problem. Our offense used to absolutely feed on those turnovers, and suddenly they weren't there.

    From 2011 to 2013 this team was top #1, #2, and #4 in the NFL at taking the ball away... and they went from that to either middle of the pack or lower from 2014 to 2017... I think in 2016 the Seahawks were bottom freaking 5 in causing turnovers, and that's just blatantly unacceptable from a supposed "all time" defense like some people are here touting.

    So no turnovers.

    And just giving 3rd down conversations to other teams like they were candy canes at Christmas...

    Worse, was that it worked in horrible concert with our offense, you had this nightmare, a complete horror show of the defense getting out there and giving up 3rd down after 3rd down and staying on the field forever, then the offense getting out there and going 3 and out...

    Quite frankly, I really can't figure out how we won as many games as we did.... it should have been much worse, considering what was going on.

    So yea, I watched the games, and saw enough to know that it wasn't just offense like some folks with selective memories are saying...
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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:57 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:People really don't bother to read on this forum anymore... they just start typing blah blah blah before actually considering what the post said.


    Can I make this my signature or at least into a bumper sticker?

    :P
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Re: Kam's tweet
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:48 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:
    RCATES wrote:If you're blaming the defense for this downfall you need to watch more football. Seahawks offense has been god awful doing little to nothing until the 4th quarter. Basically leaving the Defense on the field the whole game. Time of possession was lopsided as all hell.


    People really don't bother to read on this forum anymore... they just start typing blah blah blah before actually considering what the post said.

    What did I say?

    Was it the PLAY of the defense I critiqued?

    Nope.

    It was leadership.

    The defensive leaders on this team, that got the checks, that had the influence, and all the press attention, quite frankly didn't show good leadership. They FAILED at it, time and time again. They had temper tantrums on sidelines, they had fights with the offense and fights with each other, and all out brawls in practice that got our team penalized in the draft. Running to other teams locker-rooms on multiple occasions, and on and on.

    Poor leadership, that was my criticism.

    And before we get too awestruck about how "historically great" this defense was... it really wasn't the last few years.

    Man, their 3rd down defense sucked.

    How many times did we see them giving up 3rd and 10's, 3rd and 15's, even 3rd and 20's or 25's... I mean, what the hell was up with that? It wasn't JUST the offense that caused the TOP issue, it was that the defense just could not freaking stop other teams on third down....

    Look at the stats. They were the 2nd worst 3rd down defense in the entire NFL last year, and pretty bad the year before that as well.

    Can you imagine if our offense was 2nd worst at something in the entire NFL... the total hate and bitching on these forums would be relentless... but the defense completely sucks at something and suddenly memories get selective.

    Yea, the only problem we ever had was "offensive playcalling"....

    You act like the defense was just magnificent and giving the offense the ball on the opponents side of the field like it was in the early days, but the fact is this defense wasn't getting turnovers like it did in the early days and that was part of the problem. Our offense used to absolutely feed on those turnovers, and suddenly they weren't there.

    From 2011 to 2013 this team was top #1, #2, and #4 in the NFL at taking the ball away... and they went from that to either middle of the pack or lower from 2014 to 2017... I think in 2016 the Seahawks were bottom freaking 5 in causing turnovers, and that's just blatantly unacceptable from a supposed "all time" defense like some people are here touting.

    So no turnovers.

    And just giving 3rd down conversations to other teams like they were candy canes at Christmas...

    Worse, was that it worked in horrible concert with our offense, you had this nightmare, a complete horror show of the defense getting out there and giving up 3rd down after 3rd down and staying on the field forever, then the offense getting out there and going 3 and out...

    Quite frankly, I really can't figure out how we won as many games as we did.... it should have been much worse, considering what was going on.

    So yea, I watched the games, and saw enough to know that it wasn't just offense like some folks with selective memories are saying...


    Very good post, by the way. :2thumbs:
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Re: Kam's tweet
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:13 am
  • The_Z_Man wrote:Was it the PLAY of the defense I critiqued?

    Nope.

    It was leadership.

    The defensive leaders on this team, that got the checks, that had the influence, and all the press attention, quite frankly didn't show good leadership. They FAILED at it, time and time again. They had temper tantrums on sidelines, they had fights with the offense and fights with each other, and all out brawls in practice that got our team penalized in the draft. Running to other teams locker-rooms on multiple occasions, and on and on.

    Poor leadership, that was my criticism.


    Leadership is what I was talking about when I responded to your original post about Ray Lewis. It came across as Ray Lewis being a great leader, but he never went through something as traumatizing as 'The Play'. If he did, who knows how he would have responded to it. It was such a horrible play call, that i'm almost certain Ray would have had some comments to spread around. Thats why I said it was terrible example when Lewis was brought up.

    As for not criticizing the defense, everybody understands that last seasons defense had some issues with turnovers and getting off the field, but they still gave the offense opportunities to do something in games and the offense was miserable. Sure there was blame to spread around everywhere, but the defense holds the least amount.
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Re: Kam's tweet
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:26 am
  • The_Z_Man wrote:
    RCATES wrote:If you're blaming the defense for this downfall you need to watch more football. Seahawks offense has been god awful doing little to nothing until the 4th quarter. Basically leaving the Defense on the field the whole game. Time of possession was lopsided as all hell.


    People really don't bother to read on this forum anymore... they just start typing blah blah blah before actually considering what the post said.


    Well said, and I’ll be one of the first to own that I’ve been guilty of this in the past as well. During my younger workaholic years I wanted to stay connected to the forum, but time was tight, so on occasions I’d jump in on a topic and just say whatever came to mind in response without reading what others had posted, or researching matters a little to make sure I was at least in part not just flying by the seat of my pants in all my substantiating “facts” for my positions.

    Like most of us around here, over time I got called on it, on more than one occasion, and was left standing with my pants around my ankles, feeling pretty embarrassed, and more defensive than I had a right to be.

    I learned to be humble, take criticisms when I had it coming, and started doing my homework, so that if it came down to it, I could defend my positions, and with that, I gained more credibility with my peers, and I believe, became a more valuable contributor to the forum in general.

    I’ve maintained for years that the higher ups follow this forum closely and hold value in our thoughts and opinions. It’s been evidenced repeatedly. Start a thread in here, like for instance the recent one about JS scouting Josh Allen, “ yes I am the culprit who started that one”, and before you know it, it’s all over the NFL talk shows, and RW and his posse are riding into the Emerald City to see if he needs to start cleaning out his locker, LOL.

    I never asserted that JS was looking to replace RW, I was only expressing how important our backup QB choice could be if RW went down injured, and argued that Josh Allen would make one really great backup choice, and that “in my opinion would be a good fit for the Seahawks if we were able to land him on our roster.

    I return my focus now to this thread. What I was saying in a nutshell, is that our offense, for as much as it has struggled, the past two seasons specifically, that it has steadily improved, and has consistently put up final scores, that historically would have been enough for us to win, had our defense, also been able to deliver the same goods to the game scores, that they had been delivering up and until the last 2 seasons, when the Legion of Boom was still healthy and firing on all 8.

    The Legion of Boom suffered a string of injuries, coupled with the loss of key defensive coaching components, that had moved on to better opportunities elsewhere. Leaving us with a head defensive coach, that you couldn’t help but love, and respect, but who also clearly failed to overcome or effectively meet all the challenges that he was faced with.

    As a result the Legion of Boom became the Legion of Poof, and they were simply unable to hold the line, deny our opponents their 3rd down converions, field goals, and touchdown scores, or provide us with all the turnovers and extra points on our scoreboard that we had come to expect from them, and have always been the determining factors in our wins.

    Russell was still fighting for all he was worth right down to the final second of every game the past two seasons, injured or not, and was consistently putting up points that historically, coupled with the added points we had consistently received from our defense, and that would easily have been more than enough for us to win against everyone of our opponents.

    If the Legion of Boom is resurrected this year by the return of Ken Norton and company, and we are finally able to present an effective offense, complete, with a running game at long last, I feel very confident that we will reestablish ourselves as the force to be reconned with in the NFC West, and could find ourselves buying tickets to watch our Seahawks represent in the 2019 Super Bowl.

    Nuff Said..., Go Seahawks !
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Re: Kam's tweet
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:09 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:Was it the PLAY of the defense I critiqued?

    Nope.

    It was leadership.

    The defensive leaders on this team, that got the checks, that had the influence, and all the press attention, quite frankly didn't show good leadership. They FAILED at it, time and time again. They had temper tantrums on sidelines, they had fights with the offense and fights with each other, and all out brawls in practice that got our team penalized in the draft. Running to other teams locker-rooms on multiple occasions, and on and on.

    Poor leadership, that was my criticism.


    Leadership is what I was talking about when I responded to your original post about Ray Lewis. It came across as Ray Lewis being a great leader, but he never went through something as traumatizing as 'The Play'. If he did, who knows how he would have responded to it. It was such a horrible play call, that i'm almost certain Ray would have had some comments to spread around. Thats why I said it was terrible example when Lewis was brought up.

    As for not criticizing the defense, everybody understands that last seasons defense had some issues with turnovers and getting off the field, but they still gave the offense opportunities to do something in games and the offense was miserable. Sure there was blame to spread around everywhere, but the defense holds the least amount.



    You saying Ray being Charged with Murder was less traumatizing?
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