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DT Malik McDowell expected to be released

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  • The story of MM goes beyond reason. I almost feel sorry for John and Pete.
    Last edited by Bigpumpkin on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I don't understand the point of releasing him. If he isn't cleared on NFI, then the Seahawks are required to pay him nothing. They think our team doctors are more stringent than the rest of the NFL?
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  • chris98251 wrote:He may be cleared for normal activities but our staff may have reservations or see possible indicators he could reinjure himself some way and not want that responsibility. The kid may want to play and want the money, the risk and bad publicity of him possibly laying on the field with a ambulance coming out may be not worth it, then you start the blame game of why was he even out there and point figures at the Medical staff, Pete, John and the ownership.



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  • I don’t get why there is all this negativity.

    No team has a perfect drafting record and that is why teams at the bottom tend to stay near the bottom as they swing and miss on critical draft picks or can’t keep those they were right about. Imagine the differences that would be available for the Browns if they’d got just one of their gazillion first round QB picks right. They simply should have gone and traded for one that was proven and picked other positions instead of creating a culture of failure.

    Calgary’s observation though is quite apt and the many early round picks traded away for players not here anymore (Harvin, Graham, and Richardson) that the team had to pay big money to is now showing as the draft record shows little in the way of consistent early round drafting. Schneider (read Pete) needs to stop swinging for the fence and to draft for the development of the team. The worst part of these three lousy deals is it also created cap problems and the players acquired aren’t around anymore whereas quality early picks may just still be as the team created cap space to keep them. Those missing draft picks could easily have been busts but each would have offered a cheaper smarter longer term solution to some positional needs. Maybe some would have been busts but they may not have cost the stupid money given to those three. All three of those picks and few other poor choices have created the cap mess they are trying to clear up by ridding the team of several expensive players who perhaps weren’t completely all in and had a a different agenda than that of the team. It’s time to get back to picking the best player rather than picking for need.

    I frankly don’t fault the FO for the McDowell pick b/c he could have been and might still eventually become a high quality DLineman. The sad part is the team was high on him until he screwed up by taking a stupid youthful dangerous risk. Was this b/c of his character, or b/c he was young and dumb? Who are the other significant character risks besides Harvin who double whammied the FO and Clark who has proven to be complete success and worth far more than his draft position? Let’s identify all these character flawed players that have lead to the downfall of the team due to the negligence of the FO

    Placing the blame for this injury to McDowell by blaming the FO for drafting him b/c he was character flawed and “they repeatedly ignore character issues” is genuine hypebole and in reality untrue. It also fails to recognize this young man was very young and still immature but was/is Uber talented as a DLineman with exceptional athletic ability. Perhaps he was a swing for the fence, but one many draft experts thought was a pick with good value. Shortly after of course he cracked his coconut and the front office was of course foolish, shortsighted, exemplifying their disregard for character. Clearly if this young man is cut and never plays a down that sucks and the pick was a mistake when the margin for error had been made very narrow by other more structural mistakes and the trifecta of dumb draft pick then overpaying for experienced players trades. The pick was a mistake but that is only presently clear in hindsight his character had little to do with him possibly fracturing his skull, his youthful I’m bullet proof stupidly certainly did. His nightclub arrogance displayed when he should have been invisible and recovering has done more to create a more negative impression on him than I feel anything to do with his accident other than he isn’t being transparent.

    My comments here and above are not directed at any poster but rather at being correct and assigning blame where it is correctly due. McDowell caused the problem and may have thrown away a potentially successful career by being young and dumb and perhaps unlucky. That wasn’t Schneider’s fault, or Pete’s or anyone other than McDowell’s.

    We here and perhaps even the team even now still don’t know the details of this ATV accident, how and what precisely happened. We don’t know what precisely the injury was, how it needed to be treated, what the timing of full recovery will be, or if full recovery is even possible. He suffered a very extreme concussion is all I know for sure. I suspect the bonus claw back potential is keeping McDowell’s side quiet, but the team is very close to being fed up and starting to think it’s time to move on. McDowell’s representation has misplayed this situation. Something for nothing doesn’t sell even with all the raw potential of this player.

    I clearly am not blaming the FO but it does suck and is a darn shame.
    Last edited by jammerhawk on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • My gut on this tells me that he incurred some sort of brain damage and it may have affected one or more of his motor skills. He might not run as fast. He could have poor balance. His situational thought processing may have slowed down.

    The whole thing about letting other team's doctors clear him to play, and allowing him to come back and play on another team, maybe as the next Aaron Donald, that just makes zero sense.

    I'd bet my bottom dollar that he has some permanent damage and he is no longer anywhere close to being the athlete he was a year ago.
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  • Good post!

    Most likely correct, but we just don’t know b/c of the silence mandated by the rules.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • Seymour wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:This is what happens when you rePETEdly ignore red flags!

    Good riddance to another loser IMO.



    Yes cause his red flags also consisted of his propensity to ride atv's without a helmet.............


    Red flags were there on poor judgement, immaturity, and lack of commitment. One NFL exec. claimed "it was worst interview he's ever done". That is exactly what happened with him....but defend away.

    +1
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  • To me this is just another potential nail in both JS and PC in relation to their jobs with this team. Just too many red flags on McDowell to let this go.

    JS says trust the process, and PC says always compete. But what about them? What process are they being evaluated on by PA? Just look at the last 4-5 drafts. That's a pattern. Look also at our declining W/L record the last several years. That's a pattern as well.

    No, the coaching moves were necessary for this off season. But depending on this season's results (not just the record) and you could see one or both moving on from this team next year. Just saying.....
    Last edited by kf3339 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • KitsapGuy wrote:http://seahawksdraftblog.com/seahawks-meeting-with-malik-mcdowell-obi-melifonwu


    Holy crap, if we got Obi that would be awesome and I know there are many here who would be just as excited. Bring him here please.
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  • seahawkfreak wrote:
    KitsapGuy wrote:http://seahawksdraftblog.com/seahawks-meeting-with-malik-mcdowell-obi-melifonwu


    Holy crap, if we got Obi that would be awesome and I know there are many here who would be just as excited. Bring him here please.

    He's on ir at the raiders. Are you ok?
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  • mikeak wrote:
    Nobody on this forum knows if we can go after part of the signing bonus or not. Unless I am wrong in my belief that someone here read the contract. We simply don’t know what was / wasn’t excluded and none of the articles that I have read confirms either that this was an allowed / non allowed activity



    Yes we do :)

    Here are 3 reasons within the CBA that grant a team permission to seek return of a signing bonus -

      The failure to report
      pass physical tests
      sustain good moral character

    Malik is shit out of luck on the last two.

    The Collective Bargaining Agreement is very clear about rookie contracts and really doesn't give either teams nor players much wiggle room or even loop holes. They have covered every possible eventuality.
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  • jammerhawk wrote:I don’t get why there is all this negativity.

    No team has a perfect drafting record and that is why teams at the bottom tend to stay near the bottom as they swing and miss on critical draft picks or can’t keep those they were right about. Imagine the differences that would be available for the Browns if they’d got just one of their gazillion first round QB picks right. They simply should have gone and traded for one that was proven and picked other positions instead of creating a culture of failure.

    Calgary’s observation though is quite apt and the many early round picks traded away for players not here anymore (Harvin, Graham, and Richardson) that the team had to pay big money to is now showing as the draft record shows little in the way of consistent early round drafting. Schneider (read Pete) needs to stop swinging for the fence and to draft for the development of the team. The worst part of these three lousy deals is it also created cap problems and the players acquired aren’t around anymore whereas quality early picks may just still be as the team created cap space to keep them. Those missing draft picks could easily have been busts but each would have offered a cheaper smarter longer term solution to some positional needs. Maybe some would have been busts but they may not have cost the stupid money given to those three. All three of those picks and few other poor choices have created the cap mess they are trying to clear up by ridding the team of several expensive players who perhaps weren’t completely all in and had a a different agenda than that of the team. It’s time to get back to picking the best player rather than picking for need.

    I frankly don’t fault the FO for the McDowell pick b/c he could have been and might still eventually become a high quality DLineman. The sad part is the team was high on him until he screwed up by taking a stupid youthful dangerous risk. Was this b/c of his character, or b/c he was young and dumb? Who are the other significant character risks besides Harvin who double whammied the FO and Clark who has proven to be complete success and worth far more than his draft position? Let’s identify all these character flawed players that have lead to the downfall of the team due to the negligence of the FO

    Placing the blame for this injury to McDowell by blaming the FO for drafting him b/c he was character flawed and “they repeatedly ignore character issues” is genuine hypebole and in reality untrue. It also fails to recognize this young man was very young and still immature but was/is Uber talented as a DLineman with exceptional athletic ability. Perhaps he was a swing for the fence, but one many draft experts thought was a pick with good value. Shortly after of course he cracked his coconut and the front office was of course foolish, shortsighted, exemplifying their disregard for character. Clearly if this young man is cut and never plays a down that sucks and the pick was a mistake when the margin for error had been made very narrow by other more structural mistakes and the trifecta of dumb draft pick then overpaying for experienced players trades. The pick was a mistake but that is only presently clear in hindsight his character had little to do with him possibly fracturing his skull, his youthful I’m bullet proof stupidly certainly did. His nightclub arrogance displayed when he should have been invisible and recovering has done more to create a more negative impression on him than I feel anything to do with his accident other than he isn’t being transparent.

    My comments here and above are not directed at any poster but rather at being correct and assigning blame where it is correctly due. McDowell caused the problem and may have thrown away a potentially successful career by being young and dumb and perhaps unlucky. That wasn’t Schneider’s fault, or Pete’s or anyone other than McDowell’s.

    We here and perhaps even the team even now still don’t know the details of this ATV accident, how and what precisely happened. We don’t know what precisely the injury was, how it needed to be treated, what the timing of full recovery will be, or if full recovery is even possible. He suffered a very extreme concussion is all I know for sure. I suspect the bonus claw back potential is keeping McDowell’s side quiet, but the team is very close to being fed up and starting to think it’s time to move on. McDowell’s representation has misplayed this situation. Something for nothing doesn’t sell even with all the raw potential of this player.

    I clearly am not blaming the FO but it does suck and is a darn shame.


    I think this is definitely a case of the well being poisoned with bad decisions in the past. While this is unfortunate, have a second round pick flame out isn't the worst thing in the world and does happen occasionally. Him being the team's first pick of the year doesn't help either. But more importantly, coming on the heals of, what, 3 or 4 bad drafts and bad decisions in a row? This one stands out. The Harvin decision was still a much, much worse decision than this one. The Graham one wasn't a particularly good decision either (but that was more the offense's fault than the front office's).

    I mean, this is the team that drafted somebody (not as high) who had a heart condition and never played. These things can happen but they should be fairly random and not happen all the time.
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:This is what happens when you rePETEdly ignore red flags!

    Good riddance to another loser IMO.



    Yes cause his red flags also consisted of his propensity to ride atv's without a helmet.............


    Red flags were there on poor judgement, immaturity, and lack of commitment. One NFL exec. claimed "it was worst interview he's ever done". That is exactly what happened with him....but defend away.

    +1


    There's nothing to defend. Asserting that an ATV accident is foreseeable from all that is just pure scapegoat mentality.
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  • Yeah, the front office should have known he was going to jump on an ATV and get injured and basically ruin his career :roll:
    Time to move on, it's over with this guy.
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    Nobody on this forum knows if we can go after part of the signing bonus or not. Unless I am wrong in my belief that someone here read the contract. We simply don’t know what was / wasn’t excluded and none of the articles that I have read confirms either that this was an allowed / non allowed activity

    Cap impact will be tied to that contract language



    Although true that we don't know for sure what was in his contract, his injury was Not Football Related, so unless they had seriously poor contract writing, it's likely that they can get some of the cap room back. The issue though, is that we don't know if they will want to. This organization with this front office has been consistent about doing the players a solid on the way out the door, so even if they can (which is more than likely the case) they very well may not go after that Signing bonus. That type of good will goes a long ways in negotiations with other players you want to bring in.


    Difference being he wasn't a player. He was a poser that never played an NFL down, and he has himself to blame for that.
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  • jammerhawk wrote:I don’t get why there is all this negativity.


    I think there's two things that are causing all the negativity:

    (1) PC/JS having what I think is really a historically impressive draft run from 2010-2012, which coincided with them taking over the franchise, and for (some? many?) fans set expectations way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way too high moving forward.

    (2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.

    #1 compounds the the disappointment about #2.

    So, people are super-negative about McDowell not because of McDowell, but because he's symbolic of five years major draft misses that have only been punctuated by very occasional hits.

    I think our evidence for this is another first round bust the Seahawks have had: James Carpenter. That was a wasted pick in 2011, but it was surrounded by so many homerun picks from 2010-2012 that nobody really thinks or cares about it.

    Yet because McDowell was a wasted pick who is surrounded by a bunch of other wasted picks, he "stands in" for that general feeling.
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  • Willyeye wrote:My gut on this tells me that he incurred some sort of brain damage and it may have affected one or more of his motor skills. He might not run as fast. He could have poor balance. His situational thought processing may have slowed down.

    The whole thing about letting other team's doctors clear him to play, and allowing him to come back and play on another team, maybe as the next Aaron Donald, that just makes zero sense.

    I'd bet my bottom dollar that he has some permanent damage and he is no longer anywhere close to being the athlete he was a year ago.


    It doesn't have to be this serious.

    This is football, it can be as simple as serious concussion + facial fractures = no doctor in his right mind would medically clear McDowell to smash his head into 300 lb men running at full speed for the next 10 years.
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  • jammerhawk wrote:I don’t get why there is all this negativity.

    .


    It's really quite simple. Hawks had 2 legit starting Offensive Tackles on the board for the taking when they got cute again and traded out. They then did what most teams won't and went after a player with a troubled back round and a semi head case. This pick now has pissed away 3x 2nd round picks and a 5th. 1 2nd for the Richardson trade, 1 2nd and a 5th for the Brown trade which wouldn't have happened if you stayed put in the 1st round and drafted a tackle. And obviously another 2nd for Malik being a dumbass which other teams clearly knew and stayed away from. All of these events were directly because of the Malik pick and injury. With how god awful JS and been in the last few drafts you simply can't afford to give away 3x 2nd rounders.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:I don’t get why there is all this negativity.


    I think there's two things that are causing all the negativity:

    (1) PC/JS having what I think is really a historically impressive draft run from 2010-2012, which coincided with them taking over the franchise, and for (some? many?) fans set expectations way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way too high moving forward.

    (2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.

    #1 compounds the the disappointment about #2.

    So, people are super-negative about McDowell not because of McDowell, but because he's symbolic of five years major draft misses that have only been punctuated by very occasional hits.

    I think our evidence for this is another first round bust the Seahawks have had: James Carpenter. That was a wasted pick in 2011, but it was surrounded by so many homerun picks from 2010-2012 that nobody really thinks or cares about it.

    Yet because McDowell was a wasted pick who is surrounded by a bunch of other wasted picks, he "stands in" for that general feeling.


    Bingo. In less words. The McDowell pick represents a very poor trend in our recent drafting process and the ultimate downfall of the team hanging on with too many aging overpaid vets IMO.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:I don’t get why there is all this negativity.


    I think there's two things that are causing all the negativity:

    (1) PC/JS having what I think is really a historically impressive draft run from 2010-2012, which coincided with them taking over the franchise, and for (some? many?) fans set expectations way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way too high moving forward.

    (2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.

    #1 compounds the the disappointment about #2.

    So, people are super-negative about McDowell not because of McDowell, but because he's symbolic of five years major draft misses that have only been punctuated by very occasional hits.

    I think our evidence for this is another first round bust the Seahawks have had: James Carpenter. That was a wasted pick in 2011, but it was surrounded by so many homerun picks from 2010-2012 that nobody really thinks or cares about it.

    Yet because McDowell was a wasted pick who is surrounded by a bunch of other wasted picks, he "stands in" for that general feeling.


    Bingo. In less words. The McDowell pick represents a very poor trend in our recent drafting process and the ultimate downfall of the team hanging on with too many aging overpaid vets IMO.


    This is why I'm so angry. In just one year this team has fallen off the map. The injuries hurt but the FO has been even worse the last 3 years. Bad Drafts, Bad Contracts, Hanging onto coaches too long. Just like that the Seahawks window has been slammed shut.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:(2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.


    That's incorrect. If you actually evaluate those drafts by expectation, as measured by Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 drafts were all ABOVE AVERAGE in comparison to the rest of the league.

    Taken as a whole, the Carroll/Schneider Seahawks regime has been "the best talent evaluator of the past 21 years."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... t-20-years
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  • First, there is getting to be a pile of evidence that the 'homeruns' might have been hit by someone else. If Cleveland turns into a winning team in 2-3 years, we will know this to be true. Scott might just be a GM's best friend.

    Second, please don't conflate Clark's issues with MM. Clark was red flagged because of a checkered past and some accusations of violence. We WANT our defensive players violent, just ideally on field not off. But guys with work ethic or commitment to the game issues rarely work out for anyone, and when they do they rarely become stars. So those are bigger risks and it was stupid to take that risk - especially for a freaking DT that we did not need when we desperately needed players at other positions.

    It was a bad decision.

    And considering our track record on drafting, not a one off. We have not drafted well in years. MM is just another indicator of this.

    And bad drafting combined with bad FA decisions is what assured this team would never live up to its promise. We had a great team for 2 years, both SB runs. But every other year this team underperformed and was overrated at the start of every year. It was a wildcard team sliding into being a team that does not even make the playoffs.

    One draft pick would not have changed that, but this new failure was as close to an indicator that they won't be able to turn the ship around as you can get.

    If you cannot draft well and you cannot make good FA decisions then you better have coaches that fantastic tactically. We don't so all the MM failure points out is that this team isn't going to be better for a while. Because with our system, you cannot get better without better players.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:(2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.


    That's incorrect. If you actually evaluate those drafts by expectation, as measured by Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 drafts were all ABOVE AVERAGE in comparison to the rest of the league.

    Taken as a whole, the Carroll/Schneider Seahawks regime has been "the best talent evaluator of the past 21 years."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... t-20-years


    There's also this.

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/3/8/170 ... ade-rumors

    And I do believe that for a lot of fans, there's a lot of truth to this.
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  • The "12s" are a bunch of spoiled whining babies. That's no secret.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:(2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.


    That's incorrect. If you actually evaluate those drafts by expectation, as measured by Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 drafts were all ABOVE AVERAGE in comparison to the rest of the league.

    Taken as a whole, the Carroll/Schneider Seahawks regime has been "the best talent evaluator of the past 21 years."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... t-20-years


    1) Nowhere in your link does it say that 2015-2017 are well above average in comparison to the rest of the league. In summarizing the Hawks' draft hits in that article there's not even mention of a single player who has been drafted since 2012.

    2) Nobody disputes the insanity of the Hawks' 2010-2012 draft run -- in the post your responding to I even called it historic (I'd have to go back through to decide if I think it's the best draft run in the history of the NFL, but it's *easily* in the conversation for that).

    I also don't dispute that the 2010-2012 run was so historically dominant that it even makes 2010-2017 look exceptional overall (the same thing is gonna happens with the Saints and their 2017 draft, which is gonna inflate their baseline average draft numbers across years for a loooong time). 2010-2012 was really that good dude.

    If you wanna have a debate about draft success over the last five drafts though, you can't shove 2010-2012 into the data because not a single person in the world debates how much the Hawks crushed those drafts.

    (FWIW I'm not interested in spending the time on a debate about if the Hawks haven't drafted very well from 2013-2016 (and maybe 17, we're still waiting) -- if you think I'm a jerk for thinking that, I'm cool with it).
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  • I do hope for his sake that he gets his health back and can lead a normal(ish) life, and if he can play football again even better. I think we all did things in our early 20s that we regret and would like to have a do-over on. I really really hope he can get his life back on track, this is just sad all the way around.
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  • kobebryant wrote:I do hope for his sake that he gets his health back and can lead a normal(ish) life, and if he can play football again even better. I think we all did things in our early 20s that we regret and would like to have a do-over on. I really really hope he can get his life back on track, this is just sad all the way around.


    I find it difficult to be compassionate for this kid especially after his latest arrest. The day you were drafted and got that big payday your life changes as well as the activities surrounding it. NFL career's are short and you have to make the most of it and take care of your body and be smart with the choice's you make. No excuses this kid was a moron to jump on a quad with no helmet when he had a NFL career lined up for him with millions of dollars on the line.
    RCATES
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:(2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.


    That's incorrect. If you actually evaluate those drafts by expectation, as measured by Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 drafts were all ABOVE AVERAGE in comparison to the rest of the league.

    Taken as a whole, the Carroll/Schneider Seahawks regime has been "the best talent evaluator of the past 21 years."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... t-20-years


    1) Nowhere in your link does it say that 2015-2017 are well above average in comparison to the rest of the league. In summarizing the Hawks' draft hits in that article there's not even mention of a single player who has been drafted since 2012.

    2) Nobody disputes the insanity of the Hawks' 2010-2012 draft run -- in the post your responding to I even called it historic (I'd have to go back through to decide if I think it's the best draft run in the history of the NFL, but it's *easily* in the conversation for that).

    I also don't dispute that the 2010-2012 run was so historically dominant that it even makes 2010-2017 look exceptional overall (the same thing is gonna happens with the Saints and their 2017 draft, which is gonna inflate their baseline average draft numbers across years for a loooong time). 2010-2012 was really that good dude.

    If you wanna have a debate about draft success over the last five drafts though, you can't shove 2010-2012 into the data because not a single person in the world debates how much the Hawks crushed those drafts.

    (FWIW I'm not interested in spending the time on a debate about if the Hawks haven't drafted very well from 2013-2016 (and maybe 17, we're still waiting) -- if you think I'm a jerk for thinking that, I'm cool with it).


    No, I just think you're uninformed on the topic. If you use Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 Seahawks drafts have each exceeded expectations.

    Follow the link:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... 550c11ea98
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  • RCATES wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:I do hope for his sake that he gets his health back and can lead a normal(ish) life, and if he can play football again even better. I think we all did things in our early 20s that we regret and would like to have a do-over on. I really really hope he can get his life back on track, this is just sad all the way around.


    I find it difficult to be compassionate for this kid


    And you're well within your rights not to feel any compassion for him.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:No, I just think you're uninformed on the topic. If you use Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 Seahawks drafts have each exceeded expectations.

    Follow the link:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... 550c11ea98


    Wait a sec.

    So I said the Seahawks drafted insanely well from 2010-2012 and have in the aggregate drafted poorly since then, and you're saying I'm "uninformed on the topic" because you have a link that shows that the Seahawks drafted insanely well from 2010-2012 and have in the aggregate drafted poorly since then?

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I mean, let's take the link seriously. from 2013 through 2016 the Seahawks made 38 draft picks. From your own link, across 2013-2016 the Seahawks' five best picks have been Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, Spencer Ware (who they cut), Mark Glowinski, and Germain Ifedi.

    If you think that's awesome and great, more power to you, but it's not something I'm willing to argue about any further.

    Later, man.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:No, I just think you're uninformed on the topic. If you use Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 Seahawks drafts have each exceeded expectations.

    Follow the link:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... 550c11ea98


    Wait a sec.

    So I said the Seahawks drafted insanely well from 2010-2012 and have in the aggregate drafted poorly since then, and you're saying I'm "uninformed on the topic" because you have a link that shows that the Seahawks drafted insanely well from 2010-2012 and have in the aggregate drafted poorly since then?

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I mean, let's take the link seriously. from 2013 through 2016 the Seahawks made 38 draft picks. From your own link, across 2013-2016 the Seahawks' five best picks have been Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, Spencer Ware (who they cut), Mark Glowinski, and Germain Ifedi.

    If you think that's awesome and great, more power to you, but it's not something I'm willing to argue about any further.

    Later, man.


    Uh, no.

    You said, and I quote, the Seahawks had an "incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017."

    I showed you data that proves the Seahawks drafts in 2015, 2016, and 2017 have each been above expectation (and have gotten increasingly better since 2015). Those drafts were each above average, not poor, much less "incredibly poor."

    The only below average draft "run" came in two classes -- 2013 and 2014 -- which were coincidentally (or not) the two-consecutive years in which the Seahawks won the NFC title and went to the Super Bowl.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:I showed you data that proves the Seahawks drafts in 2015, 2016, and 2017 have each been above expectation


    Kinda hard when there is no 2017.

    hawknation2018 wrote:(and have gotten increasingly better since 2015).


    Kinda hard when 2016 is worse than 2015.

    hawknation2018 wrote:The only below average draft "run" came in two classes -- 2013 and 2014


    Kinda hard to start pretending they don't exist when I said the Seahawks have drafted very poorly since 2013. If you're more of a visual learner there's even a picture that graphically displays my statement at your own link.



    Again, the absolutely highlights of four years of drafting at your link are Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, Spencer Ware (who they cut), Mark Glowinski, and Germain Ifedi. As far as performance goes those five are the top 10% for performance over those draft years.

    You think that's great. I don't.

    This is exceptionally boring for everybody. Cuz nobody cares I'm putting you back on ignore now, man. Feel free to do the same. :2thumbs:
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:I showed you data that proves the Seahawks drafts in 2015, 2016, and 2017 have each been above expectation


    Kinda hard when there is no 2017.

    hawknation2018 wrote:(and have gotten increasingly better since 2015).


    Kinda hard when 2016 is worse than 2015.

    hawknation2018 wrote:The only below average draft "run" came in two classes -- 2013 and 2014


    Kinda hard to start pretending they don't exist when I said the Seahawks have drafted very poorly since 2013. If you're more of a visual learner there's even a picture that graphically displays my statement at your own link.



    Again, the absolutely highlights of four years of drafting at your link are Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, Spencer Ware (who they cut), Mark Glowinski, and Germain Ifedi. As far as performance goes those five are the top 10% for performance over those draft years.

    You think that's great. I don't.

    This is exceptionally boring for everybody. Cuz nobody cares I'm putting you back on ignore now, man. Feel free to do the same. :2thumbs:


    Wise move! I only have to see it when quoted also. :2thumbs:
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  • Some pretty good picks in the 2017 draft, and way too early to assume it's a bad draft.
    Pocic has some potential, even though many act like he's already a bust. Same thing they were saying about Britt.
    Shaq Griffin was clearly a damn good pick, and in the 3rd rd, solid value.
    Delano Hill, Tedric Thompson and Mike Tyson will get their chance to show what they have soon enough.
    Naz Jones in the 3rd, he looks like a beast.
    Too early to decide on Darboh as well.
    Carson clearly has some skills, and in the 7th round? Win

    That's a pretty good draft right there. But, I'm sure people will just point out Malik and nothing else.
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  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:(2) PC/JS having what has been a comparatively incredibly poor draft run from 2013 through 2017, and even more so when you consider the picks they've given up in trade and what they've gotten from those trades.


    That's incorrect. If you actually evaluate those drafts by expectation, as measured by Approximate Value, the 2015, 2016, and 2017 drafts were all ABOVE AVERAGE in comparison to the rest of the league.

    Taken as a whole, the Carroll/Schneider Seahawks regime has been "the best talent evaluator of the past 21 years."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... t-20-years


    In vaunting the talent evaluation, it undercuts the coaching ability.
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  • UK_Seahawk wrote:
    seahawkfreak wrote:
    KitsapGuy wrote:http://seahawksdraftblog.com/seahawks-meeting-with-malik-mcdowell-obi-melifonwu


    Holy crap, if we got Obi that would be awesome and I know there are many here who would be just as excited. Bring him here please.

    He's on ir at the raiders. Are you ok?


    I'm fine thank you. I didn't look at the dates and thought maybe there was some deal in the works.
    Always appreciate the passive aggressive sarcasm though.
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  • CalgaryHawk wrote:At the risk of beating a dead horse:

    2013 draft - no 1st round pick and no drafted players remain on team. Luke Wilson was ok as a sometimes starter.
    2014 draft - no 1st round pick, Justin Britt is only player remaining on this team. Richardson was good when healthy.
    2015 draft - no 1st round pick, and Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett are only drafted players left on team
    2016 draft - Ifedi and Reed have contributed. Odhiambo, Prosise, Jefferson, and Vannett have at least played
    2017 draft - no first round pick and no contribution from their 2nd round pick McDowell. Pocic, Griffin, Jones, and Carson all look decent so far though. TBD on Hill, Darboh, Thompson, Tyson, and Moore

    In the last 5 drafts, the Seahawks have drafted no superstars, 3 above-average level starters (Clark, Reed, Griffin), 3 average-level starters (Britt, Lockett, and Richardson), three below-average level starters (Willson, Ifedi and Pocic), and several current backups with future starting potential (Jones, Carson, Prosise, Vannett, Hill, Darboh, Thompson, and maybe Odhiambo at guard).

    This seems like a less than average return to me, with no superstars, and an average of about 2 starters per draft.

    Very depressing when it's listed all together like this.
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  • Release him and just move on, nothing else needs to be said.
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  • I’m trying to confirm this story, and forgive me if I don’t take everything Ian Rapoport reports as gospel. I do note that in every story I have found it does say “that while the Seahawks have not confirmed” and then go on with the insistence that they are going to let him go.

    The whole secrecy thing with the family, and our team doctors, regarding any real details about the injury he incurred or if he will ever be cleared to play again in the NFL. If he can’t pass a physical to play again in Seattle, he won’t likely be able to pass that physical anywhere else either is maddening.

    A physical is a physical and no Dr is going to stick his professional PeePee on the chopping block in order for Malik to clear and play for another team in the NFL, if he legitimately has an injury that is preventing him from playing or that might result in a more serious or threatening type situation from allowing him to play again.

    My multimillion dollar question is if the docs are saying he’ll never be able to pass a physical because of the nature of his injury, or if they are just saying that he needs a little more time to be cleared, expecting that once cleared he could potentially reach his initially hoped play level.

    If that’s the scenario, with as little as we have to pay him to set out awhile longer, with the potential payoff of a healthy Malik taking the field anytime for us in the near future, I’d think the Seahawks might just hold up awhile longer and give things a little while longer.

    If his injury is projected permanent with little to no hope of a full or near full recovery that would allow him to play anywhere near his projected potential, then I would wonder why Pete and John wouldn’t have handed him his pink slip and said Audios already.

    It’s frustrating as hell from a fans standpoint, not knowing if we should be getting Malik’s back and supporting his being given time to prove his worth, or if we need to be encouraging the Home Office to cut bait, reel up and head for a better fishing hole.

    Given that Malik hasn’t been cut yet leaves me wondering if even Seattle can’t figure out what the real deal with guy is and what to do with him. I don’t think his being a problem child as a reason for getting rid of him.

    Pete has a soft spot for problem children and is notorious for taking them under his wing and giving them second chances, which have paid off more times than not over the years for him and us.

    I guess the truth of all of this is going to spill out of the closet, one way or the other pretty quickly. I really am hoping that Ian is proven wrong and Malik proves to be a phenom one day in the near distant future.

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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:I showed you data that proves the Seahawks drafts in 2015, 2016, and 2017 have each been above expectation


    Kinda hard when there is no 2017.

    hawknation2018 wrote:(and have gotten increasingly better since 2015).


    Kinda hard when 2016 is worse than 2015.

    hawknation2018 wrote:The only below average draft "run" came in two classes -- 2013 and 2014


    Kinda hard to start pretending they don't exist when I said the Seahawks have drafted very poorly since 2013. If you're more of a visual learner there's even a picture that graphically displays my statement at your own link.



    Again, the absolutely highlights of four years of drafting at your link are Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, Spencer Ware (who they cut), Mark Glowinski, and Germain Ifedi. As far as performance goes those five are the top 10% for performance over those draft years.


    Getting slightly off useless stats, Lockett, Britt, Clark, and Richardson aren't exactly a poor haul for a bunch of second-rounders.

    The bigger issue is that you need real difference-makers, too. Standouts. Seattle has some, but also let three big ones go over the offseason.

    2015's first rounder went to Jimmy Graham. He was a difference maker, albeit misused, and one of the three difference-makers we just let go.

    2014's first rounder became Paul Richardson, Cassius Marsh, Kevin Norwood, Garrett Scott, and Kiero Small. Imagine if they had all been Luke Willson and Quinton Jeffersons instead. It would have made a difference on our roster. Instead, our late round picks since 2012 haven't been making the team for the most part, and that's partially down to injury luck and partially down to scouting and development. If you're going to perpetually trade away our first-rounders for extra picks, you need to be doing something with them other than drafting Eric Pinkins.

    Which is a big part of why I'm distinctly meh on trading down anymore. We're at #18; let's go get someone who will just lay the wood for once, make the players around him better.

    2013's first rounder went to Percy Harvin. Gamble lost.
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  • Hopefully the front office can learn from this and move on
    semiahmoo wrote:I'll say it again - this is Pete's last season in Seattle if the teams doesn't make a legit hard run deep into the playoffs.
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  • RCATES wrote:
    jammerhawk wrote:I don’t get why there is all this negativity.

    .


    It's really quite simple. Hawks had 2 legit starting Offensive Tackles on the board for the taking when they got cute again and traded out. They then did what most teams won't and went after a player with a troubled back round and a semi head case. This pick now has pissed away 3x 2nd round picks and a 5th. 1 2nd for the Richardson trade, 1 2nd and a 5th for the Brown trade which wouldn't have happened if you stayed put in the 1st round and drafted a tackle. And obviously another 2nd for Malik being a dumbass which other teams clearly knew and stayed away from. All of these events were directly because of the Malik pick and injury. With how god awful JS and been in the last few drafts you simply can't afford to give away 3x 2nd rounders.


    I realize you're pretty much just ignoring anyone who has a different opinion at this point, but Seattle went and got their top-flight OT towards the end of the year and it didn't do squat for the offense. One guy was never going to. So I'd be going along with your hindsight more if it weren't just more "the only position that matters is the OL" mentality in disguised.

    They've lost on a lot of gambles in the last few years, high-risk high-reward gambles (Percy, Graham, Malik had Calais Campbell ceiling, a lot of the OL had huge potential if they could just be developed). They've felt free to make these gambles because Wilson + defense were on the team. They gambled and lost. It sucks, it's frustrating, but there really isn't one thing you can point to and say "this is what they could have avoided doing".
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:I showed you data that proves the Seahawks drafts in 2015, 2016, and 2017 have each been above expectation


    Kinda hard when there is no 2017.

    hawknation2018 wrote:(and have gotten increasingly better since 2015).


    Kinda hard when 2016 is worse than 2015.

    hawknation2018 wrote:The only below average draft "run" came in two classes -- 2013 and 2014


    Kinda hard to start pretending they don't exist when I said the Seahawks have drafted very poorly since 2013. If you're more of a visual learner there's even a picture that graphically displays my statement at your own link.



    Again, the absolutely highlights of four years of drafting at your link are Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, Spencer Ware (who they cut), Mark Glowinski, and Germain Ifedi. As far as performance goes those five are the top 10% for performance over those draft years.

    You think that's great. I don't.

    This is exceptionally boring for everybody. Cuz nobody cares I'm putting you back on ignore now, man. Feel free to do the same. :2thumbs:


    You have to do the math to update the classes with another year of AV totals. 2016 improves significantly because there were so many starts from that class last year. 2017 was even better in terms of exceeding expected AV.

    All of this disproves your FALSE claim that the the 2015, 2016, and 2017 draft classes were "incredibly poor."
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  • B b b b bye
    Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
    Send Lawyers, Guns and Money!
    GO 'HAWKS!!
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  • Jerhawk wrote:Hopefully the front office can learn from this and move on

    That’s where I’m at.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!

    I SO do not care about your fantasy team and who's on it!
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  • Bruce Irvin, Frank Clark, Marshawn Lynch, Percy Harvin, Brandon Browner, Malik McDowell, all players that had questionable issues of some sort.

    There are hits and misses, when we miss it's bad.

    But look at our hits also.
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  • If the team were to have not traded for Harvin, Graham, and Richardson CalgaryHawk would be able to point to some early round picks that would potentially still be on the team and the the team wouldn’t have had to eat the contracts of Harvin Graham and Richardson either. Those contracts in a large way created their cap mess and the mess has cost the the team some quality players they likely should have kept.

    Thing is as well for none of these three short sighted deals where the players weren’t great fits will the team acquire a comp pick b/c of the other cap machinations with one year cheap deals so our numbers are low and FA replacements had to be acquired, this has ended any comp pick return for some significant roster losses. In short this situation was badly managed and a short term draft focus for need was taken instead of a more dependable build through the draft approach taken. I think the team was going for it with the old crew and were let down by the OLine and running game.

    In the end however the moves created a situation where the new guys weren’t getting on the field and the old guys were breaking down with injury after injury. Along comes the bust of Mc Dowell through no fairly held view of the FO except he was a character gamble with Uber top level potential because the kid at 20 made a childish risky decision to city ride an ATV and crashed and he on his own destroyed his career, but the team needed a draft infusion of talent on the DLine and he busted. There was little the team could do but sign Richardson which truly was a sub optimal tranasction that was made worse b/c of McDowell’s self imposed bust.

    The situation was handled poorly by McDowell’s people as no news was released so we all got focused upon his draft time negatives surrounding his character then that got emphasized by McDowelll’s night club nonsense which caused some to think the negatives were true when you were genuinely looking at more stupidity from the player. At this stage we don’t truly know WTF his genuine health status is right now, but sadly I too think he’s busted and we won’t see him play here or ever.

    The loss of the player hurt more than at other times b/c there was a truly narrow margin for error and he took the team outside the margin forcing the Richardson deal which was a bad deal for the team.now we won’t have either and gave up 2 2 plus high draft picks for zippo, nada, zilch. This is a truly unfortunate situation
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

    Super Bowl XLVIII Champions at last after 38 seasons. Awesome!!!
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  • When it's all over and MM is cut and done with the NFL the TRUTH will come out, it always does, and I for one won't be one bit surprised to find out that what happened to MM had nothing to do with an ATV accident and that the Seahawks were warned early on by MM's legal reps to not leak one little dribble of medical info or face a mega lawsuit.

    The truth being exposed may very well have violated a "careless types of acts" clause that most if not all professional athletes have in big money contracts and MM's legal reps knew it and covered their tracks well, it's really the only thing that makes any sense to the super secret level of zero info about what actually happened.

    The Seahawks will learn from this experience and move on and I support them getting 100% of any monies they can, back from him, the team owes him ZERO.

    GO HAWKS!!!
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  • Even if McDowell were to eventually get cleared to play in a year, that would be two years out of football games for him and he doesn’t appear to be the type of self- motivated individual who would keep himself in tip top shape on his own. I hope I’m wrong, and he does recover and play well for the Hawks for a year or two, because this wasted draft pick bugs me even more than the Harvin trade.
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