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Damned if they do, damned if they dont
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:46 pm
  • So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need. Then we see numerous posts bitching about not trading down again. I guarantee if they had not traded the 18 and picked Penney we would see bitching about not trading down at all.

    Prior to the draft I have seen complaints about any possible trade downs because they just need to make a pick in the first round. They traded down. They gained an additional pick. They chose a player at a position of need.

    Damned if they do. Damned if they don’t...
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Re: Damned if they do, damned if they dont
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:51 pm
  • One thing that is fairly universal when it comes to the draft is that fans (no matter the team) invest emotionally in certain players or positions, and when their team doesn't select that player, or the player that is highest rated at the position by the "experts", fans will moan and complain about it.

    Personally, I like to give them a chance and see what they can do.

    I've read and seen many reports that we should have gotten a DB, but then I read where we re-signed Maxwell to help ease that need.

    I'm sure that Pete and John have a plan to fill the needs that we have, and I'm willing to wait to see how it comes together in August.
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  • I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.
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  • adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.
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  • Edit: I was probably more brash than necessary with my original comment. There are a million fans on this site, there will naturally be disagreement on everything.
    Last edited by Rat on Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    It doesn’t matter one iota whether we fans agree or disagree on a pick.

    What we as fans want doesn’t matter. We aren’t the ones paid to make the decisions. That’s why mock drafts are a bit dangerous to follow so closely. They are based on the opinions of people who either don’t have a job in the NFL or can’t get one. Also, if you really look closely at most mock drafts there isn’t a lot of deviation from one to another. Not everyone is exactly the same but there are similarities between lots of them. My guess is that a lot of mocks are just a compilation of other mocks with no real player evaluation taking place. The people making mocks don’t have the access or insights to the potential draftees like the actual NFL personnel. This in itself makes their analysis and ranking of potential draftees questionable based on the glaring lack of depth in their knowledge.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need.


    Do you mean no one should argue that RB was not a huge need? Because if you're saying RB wasn't a huge need you must have been in a coma last season when our leading rusher was Mike Davis with a scorching 240 yards.
    ImTheScientist wrote:This guy is the closest thing to beast mode we will ever see. You got a glimpse of that yesterday. He was instantly my favorite player when they signed him. Give the dude a chance and don't overreact or overthink preseason. Go Hawks. Lacy will rush for 1,100 and 10TDs. Bend the knee.
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  • i love the Penny pick. I get that some folks think we reached a little because they spent alot of time reading mocks and listening to talking heads. But I trust the two men who brought a Lombardi to Seattle.

    What excites me most is Seattle has recently tried to mine for diamonds in the rough at the RB positoin. If they think Penny is worthy of a 1st rounder....that makes me VERY excited!
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.


    But....... our 2013 draft was awful. The last really good draft this team has had was in 2012.
    ImTheScientist wrote:This guy is the closest thing to beast mode we will ever see. You got a glimpse of that yesterday. He was instantly my favorite player when they signed him. Give the dude a chance and don't overreact or overthink preseason. Go Hawks. Lacy will rush for 1,100 and 10TDs. Bend the knee.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need.


    Do you mean no one should argue that RB was not a huge need? Because if you're saying RB wasn't a huge need you must have been in a coma last season when our leading rusher was Mike Davis with a scorching 240 yards.


    Seems clear to me. They were one injury away from seeing if Curt Warner would suit up for a game.
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  • I've learned to wait to see how a player plays for US before making any judgment.
    Last year I knew nothing of Shaq or the GOAT Nas Jones.
    This year all I knew about Penny was his name sparsely between the other big name backs. but nothing more.
    Now I know he led CFB in rushing, can catch and return kicks.
    I also know he came from SDSU in a non-major conference where competition isn't as steep but so did Marshall Faulk.
    And so did top 10 pick Allen who's been highly criticized for his lack of accuracy but that didn't matter.

    All in all-what we knew previously matters jack shit till September comes.
    I reserve my opinion till game time.
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  • Well the Rams, Cards and 49ers just peed a little, if he can be a Lynch 2.0, Curtis Martin 2.0 or a Faulk 2.0 we will have a pretty impressive division of Running Backs with Johnson in Zona, Todd Gurley in L.A.. The 49ers now have to make a move to counter the rest with a every down type guy.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need.


    Do you mean no one should argue that RB was not a huge need? Because if you're saying RB wasn't a huge need you must have been in a coma last season when our leading rusher was Mike Davis with a scorching 240 yards.

    You must have been in a coma if you think Davis, Carson, and Mckissic were the root cause of our poor running game. Our poor running game was a direct result of really bad line play. Our line got no push, and was bullied at the line of scrimmage. We consistently got beat in our assignments, and we consistently had defenders in the backfield as soon as the ball was snapped. We have that same offensive line plus a journeyman in Fluker, and an unproven Fant. Penny is going to have the same struggles that our current stable of running backs had unless that line play is addressed.

    It just so happens that several quality offensive lineman were available at 18. We passed on them for a running back, a position mind you that is quite possibly one of the deepest in this NFL draft. Offensive line on the other hand has a steep drop off after the top prospects are off of the board.

    Let me reiterate this, it wouldn't matter if our RB stable consisted of a in their prime Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc -- they would still have troubles behind our offensive line in its current state of affairs. We have to do something here, I'm not convinced Penny is going to magically fix poor line play. That is why most people are upset with this pick.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    It doesn’t matter one iota whether we fans agree or disagree on a pick.

    What we as fans want doesn’t matter. We aren’t the ones paid to make the decisions. That’s why mock drafts are a bit dangerous to follow so closely. They are based on the opinions of people who either don’t have a job in the NFL or can’t get one. Also, if you really look closely at most mock drafts there isn’t a lot of deviation from one to another. Not everyone is exactly the same but there are similarities between lots of them. My guess is that a lot of mocks are just a compilation of other mocks with no real player evaluation taking place. The people making mocks don’t have the access or insights to the potential draftees like the actual NFL personnel. This in itself makes their analysis and ranking of potential draftees questionable based on the glaring lack of depth in their knowledge.


    Wasn't even remotely thinking of mocks, was talking about seahawks fans on other sites. All I'm saying is there were needs at other more important positions we could've filled with that pick.

    To your first point, duh. Nothing said on this forum or any other matters. We are all here to discuss our opinions solely for our own intellectual stimulation and sense of community. No one is under any delusions that his or her opinion is swaying the team or even heard by them.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.


    But....... our 2013 draft was awful. The last really good draft this team has had was in 2012.


    Even if he meant 2012, that line of thinking is very reductive. Just because we had a draft the media thought was bad turn out to be amazing does not mean a pick being panned now will turn out to be good.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.


    But....... our 2013 draft was awful. The last really good draft this team has had was in 2012.


    Hey now! Awful?
    2013 netted us Luke Willson and the Chiefs Spencer Ware.

    OK, maybe awful.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need.


    Do you mean no one should argue that RB was not a huge need? Because if you're saying RB wasn't a huge need you must have been in a coma last season when our leading rusher was Mike Davis with a scorching 240 yards.

    You must have been in a coma if you think Davis, Carson, and Mckissic were the root cause of our poor running game. Our poor running game was a direct result of really bad line play. Our line got no push, and was bullied at the line of scrimmage. We consistently got beat in our assignments, and we consistently had defenders in the backfield as soon as the ball was snapped. We have that same offensive line plus a journeyman in Fluker, and an unproven Fant. Penny is going to have the same struggles that our current stable of running backs had unless that line play is addressed.

    It just so happens that several quality offensive lineman were available at 18. We passed on them for a running back, a position mind you that is quite possibly one of the deepest in this NFL draft. Offensive line on the other hand has a steep drop off after the top prospects are off of the board.

    Let me reiterate this, it wouldn't matter if our RB stable consisted of a in their prime Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc -- they would still have troubles behind our offensive line in its current state of affairs. We have to do something here, I'm not convinced Penny is going to magically fix poor line play. That is why most people are upset with this pick.



    If you have those 3 in your backfield you are dumpster diving and need a huge investment in your backfield.I wouldnt mind seeing them grab another back.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    It doesn’t matter one iota whether we fans agree or disagree on a pick.

    What we as fans want doesn’t matter. We aren’t the ones paid to make the decisions. That’s why mock drafts are a bit dangerous to follow so closely. They are based on the opinions of people who either don’t have a job in the NFL or can’t get one. Also, if you really look closely at most mock drafts there isn’t a lot of deviation from one to another. Not everyone is exactly the same but there are similarities between lots of them. My guess is that a lot of mocks are just a compilation of other mocks with no real player evaluation taking place. The people making mocks don’t have the access or insights to the potential draftees like the actual NFL personnel. This in itself makes their analysis and ranking of potential draftees questionable based on the glaring lack of depth in their knowledge.


    Wasn't even remotely thinking of mocks, was talking about seahawks fans on other sites. All I'm saying is there were needs at other more important positions we could've filled with that pick.

    To your first point, duh. Nothing said on this forum or any other matters. We are all here to discuss our opinions solely for our own intellectual stimulation and sense of community. No one is under any delusions that his or her opinion is swaying the team or even heard by them.



    You might not have said anything about mocks but my take is that many of the opinions that fans generate are based on mock drafts.
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  • justafan wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need.


    Do you mean no one should argue that RB was not a huge need? Because if you're saying RB wasn't a huge need you must have been in a coma last season when our leading rusher was Mike Davis with a scorching 240 yards.

    You must have been in a coma if you think Davis, Carson, and Mckissic were the root cause of our poor running game. Our poor running game was a direct result of really bad line play. Our line got no push, and was bullied at the line of scrimmage. We consistently got beat in our assignments, and we consistently had defenders in the backfield as soon as the ball was snapped. We have that same offensive line plus a journeyman in Fluker, and an unproven Fant. Penny is going to have the same struggles that our current stable of running backs had unless that line play is addressed.

    It just so happens that several quality offensive lineman were available at 18. We passed on them for a running back, a position mind you that is quite possibly one of the deepest in this NFL draft. Offensive line on the other hand has a steep drop off after the top prospects are off of the board.

    Let me reiterate this, it wouldn't matter if our RB stable consisted of a in their prime Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc -- they would still have troubles behind our offensive line in its current state of affairs. We have to do something here, I'm not convinced Penny is going to magically fix poor line play. That is why most people are upset with this pick.



    If you have those 3 in your backfield you are dumpster diving and need a huge investment in your backfield.I wouldnt mind seeing them grab another back.



    It’s kind of a chicken/egg kind of thing. Was the running game bad because of the o line? Yes. Was the running game bad because of a lack of talent at the RB position? Yes. They addressed one part of the problem after spending some high draft capital on the line the last few years. I’m optimistic that with new coaching and a bit of experience the line has to be better.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.


    But....... our 2013 draft was awful. The last really good draft this team has had was in 2012.


    Even if he meant 2012, that line of thinking is very reductive. Just because we had a draft the media thought was bad turn out to be amazing does not mean a pick being panned now will turn out to be good.

    Quite true, but on the flips side, not you, nor anyone else here on .NET that's ragging on the Rashaad Penny pick won't be a fantastic pick either.
    Grading low on a pick in ANY Draft is foolhardy.
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:I wanted them to trade down and didn't want them to take an RB early and it looks like a few others here and many on other sites agree.


    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.


    We did have a horrible 2013 draft, led by Christine Michael.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:So they trade down and pick up a 3rd while trading a 7 for a 6. They then use the newly acquired 1st to pick up a RB, which no one should argue is a huge need.


    Do you mean no one should argue that RB was not a huge need? Because if you're saying RB wasn't a huge need you must have been in a coma last season when our leading rusher was Mike Davis with a scorching 240 yards.

    You must have been in a coma if you think Davis, Carson, and Mckissic were the root cause of our poor running game. Our poor running game was a direct result of really bad line play. Our line got no push, and was bullied at the line of scrimmage. We consistently got beat in our assignments, and we consistently had defenders in the backfield as soon as the ball was snapped. We have that same offensive line plus a journeyman in Fluker, and an unproven Fant. Penny is going to have the same struggles that our current stable of running backs had unless that line play is addressed.

    It just so happens that several quality offensive lineman were available at 18. We passed on them for a running back, a position mind you that is quite possibly one of the deepest in this NFL draft. Offensive line on the other hand has a steep drop off after the top prospects are off of the board.

    Let me reiterate this, it wouldn't matter if our RB stable consisted of a in their prime Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc -- they would still have troubles behind our offensive line in its current state of affairs. We have to do something here, I'm not convinced Penny is going to magically fix poor line play. That is why most people are upset with this pick.

    Bulls eye!
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    A lot of sites agreed that we had an awful draft in 2013 as well.


    But....... our 2013 draft was awful. The last really good draft this team has had was in 2012.


    Even if he meant 2012, that line of thinking is very reductive. Just because we had a draft the media thought was bad turn out to be amazing does not mean a pick being panned now will turn out to be good.

    Quite true, but on the flips side, not you, nor anyone else here on .NET that's ragging on the Rashaad Penny pick won't be a fantastic pick either.
    Grading low on a pick in ANY Draft is foolhardy.


    I'm not grading the pick based on the player though. This isn't me regurgitating Priscos rating because I think Penny is bad. I just think taking an RB that early isn't the best move as a philosophical thing. I think Penny could be a great player, but if our OL remains crap he will also look bad.

    By your logic, grading high on a pick could be just as foolhardy.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:You must have been in a coma if you think Davis, Carson, and Mckissic were the root cause of our poor running game. Our poor running game was a direct result of really bad line play. Our line got no push, and was bullied at the line of scrimmage. We consistently got beat in our assignments, and we consistently had defenders in the backfield as soon as the ball was snapped. We have that same offensive line plus a journeyman in Fluker, and an unproven Fant. Penny is going to have the same struggles that our current stable of running backs had unless that line play is addressed.

    It just so happens that several quality offensive lineman were available at 18. We passed on them for a running back, a position mind you that is quite possibly one of the deepest in this NFL draft. Offensive line on the other hand has a steep drop off after the top prospects are off of the board.

    Let me reiterate this, it wouldn't matter if our RB stable consisted of a in their prime Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc -- they would still have troubles behind our offensive line in its current state of affairs. We have to do something here, I'm not convinced Penny is going to magically fix poor line play. That is why most people are upset with this pick.

    Bulls eye!


    I have seen a lot of people pointing these things out, and the one glaring oversight in that stance is the effect a new offensive line coach may have on what is actually a pretty decent offensive line (Brown/Pocic/Britt/Fluker/Ifedi and Fant mixing in somewhere). Is it an elite unit? No, but you don't create those overnight and I don't believe its as bad of a group as it was coached to look last year. I recall a video discussing the negative effect Cable's coaching had on Duane Brown after he got here and I don't think that's insignificant. Maybe you don't believe the coaching can have much of a difference, and that's fair for you to do, we're all speculating at this point. The guys running the show seem to have confidence in the coaching changes playing a big part though.

    I wasn't a huge fan of the pick initially as I didn't know much about him, but ultimately after our running game looking lost since losing Marshawn and trying to find a bunch of diamonds in the rough at RB, I'm glad they went out and got the guy they REALLY wanted and felt can solidify the position for the foreseeable future, while picking up a much needed 3rd round pick in the process.
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Re: Damned if they do, damned if they dont
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:20 pm
  • Our O line sucks in the way Cable wanted them to block and assignments, when we changed it up to a more power scheme all of a sudden our backs had holes. Brown even looked less then average by the time Cable had him playing his way versus how he played in Houston which uses a ZBS but a power scheme not the Gibbs scheme Cable preaches.

    Solari could build on that power ZBS and you have to remember Gibbs system used quick smaller and agile guys, Cable deviated grabbing Athletes and they were bigger and not as agile, Gallery was a can't miss tackle, yet he failed in Cables system and became a Guard is just one example. Fluker is a power guy, they are not going to be cute with schemes, just take their guy and eliminate him from making a play and let the back read cut and go. We have plenty of beef, Pocic should have put on a good 20 pounds I would think of muscle and that will help also, Ifedi won't have to think as much and can just play.

    Schotty uses motion to set up coverage reads making Russell's job easier, it will also give the Wilson the ability to make audible's to where they won't be. It will be a lot more challenging for Wilson but he should have a safer pocket if power ZBS gives us running ability and oh yeah Schotty will use a FB, just hope it's not Madden, he is way to slow and isn't good at blocking on the move and with leverage.
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Re: Damned if they do, damned if they dont
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:26 pm
  • Pocic was the worst run blocker on the line last year. He was neither powerful nor explosive. He's put on a lot of weight, so that will undoubtedly help.

    Fluker is a much better run blocker when he lines up on the outside at OT vs. smaller defensive ends. He has strong hands and does not job sealing off blocks on the outside. As a guard, he just clogs up space and is not explosive enough to make much of an impact in the run game.

    Brown, Britt, and Ifedi are pretty good run blockers.
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