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Schottenheimer a breath of fresh air (Greg Bell)

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    Though early, Schottenheimer a breath of fresh air for Seahawks' offense >>> http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article210554109.html

    ... by Carroll's unique design. Bevell was the offensive coordinator in title, but in practice he shared game-planning and even some play calling with offensive line coach Tom Cable, who doubled as the run-game coordinator. Smith was the third assistant that coached and planned with Wilson and the quarterbacks.

    Now, Schottenheimer is the man.

    Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... rylink=cpy


    Later in Saturday's practice Schottenheimer gave Troy Williams, one of 46 players here this weekend on a tryout basis, another of Seattle's lengthy play calls. The former University of Washington and Utah quarterback walked in the huddle and appeared to be having problems getting all the words of the call out correctly. Schottenheimer stepped into the huddle, stood shoulder to shoulder with Williams, and helped him with the verbiage.

    Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article210554109.html#storylink=cpy


    Lets hope they are all studying the playbook and it's verbiage.
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  • Good read!

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  • Excellent read. Really like the fact he's so detail oriented and calls people on their stuff, something Pete specifically mentioned prior to him being hired.

    Highlights the point about having so many different cooks in the kitchen past few years on offense too. Makes sense why it felt like there were multiple game plans every week that seemingly changed drive to drive with no rhythm.
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  • I always thought it was strange to split up the Coordinator duties like we were doing in the past. Hopefully having just a single guy at the top will help make it become more cohesive.

    I really don't worry too much about walk-on guys getting the verbiage right away in a rookie camp like this, but I'd expect all the signed guys to have the playbook and the verbiage down by the time training camp rolls around in August.
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  • I'm so so very glad that Pete did more than swap coordinators. There was far more going on with Bevell than just Bevell, namingly #1 was Fable and his living off his reputation and name and getting pass after pass on performance of his group and responsibilities. :irishdrinkers:
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  • Schottengaimer was known for his complex playbook with difficult names. This will be a challenging summer for our vets, leaving something that they have been going for years and migrate to something potentially a lot more complex.


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  • Hard to get excited about Schotty with his track record but hopefully he's changed his ways.
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  • I see Shotty as someone who is willing to tell Pete the truth instead of being a yes man like Bevell.
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  • Seafan wrote:I see Shotty as someone who is willing to tell Pete the truth instead of being a yes man like Bevell.



    It will be interesting to see how this relationship develops this year.
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  • Seeing how our offense runs is the thing I'm looking forward to the most.
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  • January 10th, 2018 - Darrell Bevell fired.

    On that day was when there was a breath of fresh air.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Seeing how our offense runs is the thing I'm looking forward to the most.


    I'm right there with you, Roland!

    It's going to be very interesting to watch.

    I was far from negative about the Schottenheimer hire at the start of the year but equally not jumping up and down celebrating, either.

    The optimist in me says this offense is going to thrive after a frustrating start.

    Most would agree accountability is welcome here, Brian brings exactly that. I'd imagine Russ is going to absolutely thrive working for him.
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  • Seafan wrote:I see Shotty as someone who is willing to tell Pete the truth instead of being a yes man like Bevell.

    I believe you are ignoring a major point from the article. The previous system functioned as Pete wanted to. Pete wanted yes men. It’s Pete that must change here.
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  • toffee wrote:Schottengaimer was known for his complex playbook with difficult names. This will be a challenging summer for our vets, leaving something that they have been going for years and migrate to something potentially a lot more complex.


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    Just to add on this...

    Pete actually addressed this in the post rookie minicamp press conference.

    He said approx 70% of the offense has been carried over with the remaining 30% is new.

    Seems like, although Brian's offense is known for being complex, he's taking a slightly different approach this time around. Think he also addressed shortening play calls to make it easier for the guys to hear the call during games.
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  • toffee wrote:Schottengaimer was known for his complex playbook with difficult names. This will be a challenging summer for our vets, leaving something that they have been going for years and migrate to something potentially a lot more complex.


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    Pete said he had to learn our playbook rather than the entire team learn his, and it was 70% the same (with minor tweaks) and 30% would be different per Shotty.

    Edit...Woops....looks like OP beat me to it.
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  • It almost doesn't even matter how much our playbook changes, because the big problem wasn't the playbook; it was how and when it was used that was the huge issue.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    toffee wrote:Schottengaimer was known for his complex playbook with difficult names. This will be a challenging summer for our vets, leaving something that they have been going for years and migrate to something potentially a lot more complex.


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    Pete said he had to learn our playbook rather than the entire team learn his, and it was 70% the same (with minor tweaks) and 30% would be different per Shotty.

    Edit...Woops....looks like OP beat me to it.


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  • Roland beat me to it. It wasn't the playbook, it was how it was used.

    Hopefully this "other 30%" consists of some short route, quick blitz beater, and hot route/ dump off concepts.

    Literally everything in the offense, from the running game to the long developing routes, suffered from opposing defenses never having to worry about these types of attacks. Except for that one, brief, record setting period of time, in 2015, where Bevel pulled his head out of Cable's :141847_bnono: and called a balanced, rapid-fire attack
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:It almost doesn't even matter how much our playbook changes, because the big problem wasn't the playbook; it was how and when it was used that was the huge issue.

    Bingo! This guy gets it! ^ 8)
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  • bigskydoc wrote:Roland beat me to it. It wasn't the playbook, it was how it was used.

    Hopefully this "other 30%" consists of some short route, quick blitz beater, and hot route/ dump off concepts.

    Literally everything in the offense, from the running game to the long developing routes, suffered from opposing defenses never having to worry about these types of attacks. Except for that one, brief, record setting period of time, in 2015, where Bevel pulled his head out of Cable's :141847_bnono: and called a balanced, rapid-fire attack

    Yep, quick short passes are the key to beating the Rams defense, and of course a good running attack.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Seafan wrote:I see Shotty as someone who is willing to tell Pete the truth instead of being a yes man like Bevell.

    I believe you are ignoring a major point from the article. The previous system functioned as Pete wanted to. Pete wanted yes men. It’s Pete that must change here.


    Bevell and Cable were fired. If those were the kinds of coaches he wanted, wouldn't he have kept them?
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  • bigskydoc wrote:Hopefully this "other 30%" consists of some short route, quick blitz beater, and hot route/ dump off concepts.

    Stop! You're getting me all hot and bothered at the thought of seeing our offense run those kinds of plays. ;)

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  • The middle of our offensive line goes 6’5” 6’6” 6’5”

    How exactly are those quick passes going to go?
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  • The biggest problem is our OL sucks.
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  • getnasty wrote:The biggest problem is our OL sucks.


    That don't make no sense. Mike Solari is in the early stages of looking at players and putting a roster together.
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  • getnasty wrote:The biggest problem was Cable sucks.


    FTFY.

    I am giving the benefit of the doubt to Solari, Shotty and Pete......for now.
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  • HawkNuts wrote:The middle of our offensive line goes 6’5” 6’6” 6’5”

    How exactly are those quick passes going to go?


    I guess all QBs need to be 6'8 at least
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  • Seymour wrote:Pete said he had to learn our playbook rather than the entire team learn his, and it was 70% the same (with minor tweaks) and 30% would be different per Shotty.

    Edit...Woops....looks like OP beat me to it.


    This is somewhat worrisome to me. Does this mean we're going to run the same ZBS offense instead of a power running game? I wish Pete would just hand the reigns over when it comes to the offense and just concentrate on the defense.
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  • HawkNuts wrote:The middle of our offensive line goes 6’5” 6’6” 6’5”

    How exactly are those quick passes going to go?


    Riiiiight. So New Orleans must struggle with quick passes as well?
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Pete said he had to learn our playbook rather than the entire team learn his, and it was 70% the same (with minor tweaks) and 30% would be different per Shotty.

    Edit...Woops....looks like OP beat me to it.


    This is somewhat worrisome to me. Does this mean we're going to run the same ZBS offense instead of a power running game? I wish Pete would just hand the reigns over when it comes to the offense and just concentrate on the defense.


    No we are NOT running the same ZBS. The play call language and basics mostly stay the same, but individual assignments and details related to technique will be all Shotty's to coach up. Pete is not involving Cable (now Solari), or as I understand himself either in actual game planning either.
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  • Schotty isn't a short passing guy. His passing offense is Coryell which is a deep vertical, stretch the field type passing game.

    "Overall, the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm. The Coryell offense uses three key weapons. The first is a strong inside running game, the second is its ability to strike deep with two or more receivers on any play, and the third is to not only use those two attacks in cooperation with each other, but to include a great deal of mid-range passing to a TE, WR, or back."
    via wikipedia

    Pete wants to have an aggressive running game, and take deep shots off of play action. It may sound eerily familiar to what Cable & Bevell were rolling out there every week, but it should be a lot different.

    Under Schotty it should have a lot more nuance to everything, formations, routes, motions, and the running game. Cable as the run game coordinator only had about 4 running plays he would call. It made them just way too easy to prepare for. Solari, particularly with what he did down in SF during the Harbaugh years, blended with what Schotty accomplished with the Jets should have Seattle's run game becoming one of the hardest to prepare for.

    The key is going to be tempo. They are going to have to get in-n-out of the huddle quickly and up to the line of scrimmage, due to all the motions & shifts that they will be employing. I want to see what the mid-range passing looks like.
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  • Fade wrote:Cable as the run game coordinator only had about 4 running plays he would call. It made them just way too easy to prepare for.

    This is a large part of why the argument that "the players just need to execute" was always a stupid one by people around here. Your job of execution is immensely harder if the opposing defense knows what you're doing most of the time, and even when they don't, most of those other times there are very limited alternatives. We did a fine job of putting our offense in a position to fail before the first quarter ever started, for friggin' years.
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  • If what people are reporting is true. Then Pete has been coaching with one hand behind his back since he fired Bates. Pete is awesome with finding the best way to use a player and finding ways to get a defense to work. He is very bad at supervising his coaches or figuring out what the hell is wrong with his offense. Belichick had the same problem when he was starting out, it was not until he just found a guy like McDaniels that his teams started to win 12 games every year. Pete needs to find his Chow/McDaniels and get out of the way of the offensive coaching staff.
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  • You can change blocking assignments and how we are layered in our routes but run the same basic plays that just will look different to the defense and are easier to block for our line. We did some of that at the end of 2015, we had Reese as a fullback that gave us a whole level of difference, we did a Power ZBS so to speak as well so our lineman had less thinking and more pounding.

    We decided to fix what had worked again in 2016.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    HawkNuts wrote:The middle of our offensive line goes 6’5” 6’6” 6’5”

    How exactly are those quick passes going to go?


    Riiiiight. So New Orleans must struggle with quick passes as well?



    Weeeelll. NO uses there rb’s to bail out Drew Brees. Also other than height DB and RW are not that similar as QB’s.

    Also NO has Sean Payton. So there’s that.
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  • my greatest hope is a serviceable line. Wilson is such a great player. i dont see how focusing on the minutia is actually gonna work. it does or it doesn't.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:It almost doesn't even matter how much our playbook changes, because the big problem wasn't the playbook; it was how and when it was used that was the huge issue.


    This. There was hardly any change when things weren't working. Couple that with conservative play calling when we had a slight lead was making games hard to watch.
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  • For me just having an OC that actually knows how to not just prepare a game plan, but also knows how to make in-game adjustments is going to be a major change in our offense. Add to that more creativity and it should help with scoring more points. Hopefully, that will include scoring in the first half of the games. That would be a start.
    Last edited by kf3339 on Wed May 09, 2018 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Jville wrote:
    getnasty wrote:The biggest problem is our OL sucks.


    That don't make no sense. Mike Solari is in the early stages of looking at players and putting a roster together.


    Sorry I meant our biggest problem the last few years has been the OL and not Bevell. Unlike Shotty I hace much more confidence in Solari getting things figured out.
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  • getnasty wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    getnasty wrote:The biggest problem is our OL sucks.


    That don't make no sense. Mike Solari is in the early stages of looking at players and putting a roster together.


    Sorry I meant our biggest problem the last few years has been the OL and not Bevell. Unlike Shotty I hace much more confidence in Solari getting things figured out.


    Solari’s track record vs cable’s? Anyone got stats or insights?


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  • I'm pretty sure no pro-bowl-level tackles got worse over the course of a single season under Solari.
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  • GeekHawk wrote:I'm pretty sure no pro-bowl-level tackles got worse over the course of a single season under Solari.


    :ditto:
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  • fenderbender123 wrote:
    brimsalabim wrote:
    Seafan wrote:I see Shotty as someone who is willing to tell Pete the truth instead of being a yes man like Bevell.

    I believe you are ignoring a major point from the article. The previous system functioned as Pete wanted to. Pete wanted yes men. It’s Pete that must change here.


    Bevell and Cable were fired. If those were the kinds of coaches he wanted, wouldn't he have kept them?

    ^ This ^
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  • Fade wrote:Schotty isn't a short passing guy. His passing offense is Coryell which is a deep vertical, stretch the field type passing game.


    I realize that, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I am just hoping Schotty adds in some of those shorter range, blitz beater option concepts that were missing under Bevel. Like Roland mentioned, the parts of Bevel's offense, that are similar to the Coryell offense, weren't the problem. It was a lack of situational awareness, and, I think, the lack of any real hot route options that did in CaBevel's scheme. I think the actual playbook is going to look remarkably similar, with it's rudimentary vertical routes, because that's what Pete wants. Setting up the deep, play action pass, with a running game that has to be respected.

    I would be really interested to see Fant in there as a receiving option, but he may have put on too much weight for it at this point.
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  • sdog1981 wrote:If what people are reporting is true. Then Pete has been coaching with one hand behind his back since he fired Bates. Pete is awesome with finding the best way to use a player and finding ways to get a defense to work. He is very bad at supervising his coaches or figuring out what the hell is wrong with his offense. Belichick had the same problem when he was starting out, it was not until he just found a guy like McDaniels that his teams started to win 12 games every year. Pete needs to find his Chow/McDaniels and get out of the way of the offensive coaching staff.

    Except Pete was the one who changed the offense at USC from Norm’s offense (Pete’s first year) to what it became (second year on). Norm has confirmed this.

    Pete is also the one who had run option plays added to the Hawks’ after Russell was drafted.

    Yes he’s a defensive guy. That doesn’t mean he’s some incompetent idiot where offense is concerned.
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  • I'm hoping Schotty's playbook doesn't contain pass plays where 2 receivers converge on a single spot way downfield accompanied by 3 or 4 D-backs. That'd be nice. For a change.
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  • sc85sis wrote:
    Pete is also the one who had run option plays added to the Hawks’ after Russell was drafted.

    Yes he’s a defensive guy. That doesn’t mean he’s some incompetent idiot where offense is concerned.



    You are going to need to provide some serious linkage to prove any of that. Because if he was that much of an offensive guru he would have cleaned house after the 2016 season.
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  • GeekHawk wrote:I'm hoping Schotty's playbook doesn't contain pass plays where 2 receivers converge on a single spot way downfield accompanied by 3 or 4 D-backs. That'd be nice. For a change.

    Let’s hope he took the failed bubble screen and the ever craptastic 3rd and long draw play out of the playbook.
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:I'm hoping Schotty's playbook doesn't contain pass plays where 2 receivers converge on a single spot way downfield accompanied by 3 or 4 D-backs. That'd be nice. For a change.

    Let’s hope he took the failed bubble screen and the ever craptastic 3rd and long draw play out of the playbook.


    There's no hope of getting rid of the 3rd and long draw play - even Holmgren had that. After all, nobody would ever expect it. :roll:
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  • A couple things I'm hoping for. IF the running game is working, don't get cute and change it.
    And if you get in the red zone, ditto, don't get cute. Keep doing WHAT IS WORKING.
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