Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'

Own The West · May 18, 2018

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

Sports Hernia · May 18, 2018

Own The West":dxb49qqv said:
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.

toffee · May 18, 2018

Only that they did it a season too late, should have traded away the big mouths, the come get mes, etc last summer. We could have gotten so many more picks.

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Optimus25 · May 18, 2018

toffee":1qnp48aw said:
Only that they did it a season too late, should have traded away the big mouths, the come get mes, etc last summer. We could have gotten so many more picks.

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i have two items to use to talk about why it wasn't bad to cling to hope last year and not do that. 1. Nobody could have predicted the progression of goff, resurgence of gurley, and the coming of age in mcvay all happening like a flash of lightning the way it did. I think about 85% of the free world pegged the hawks as division favorites going in, including me, and quite frankly that was solely because of the big mouths, come get mes, etc. Go ask a bills or Cincinnati fan how valuable a playoff game is to put that in perspective. Why derail a train that had been rolling into the post season for what?. 5 years straight?. 2. Chris Carson was starting to click and i felt like he was 'getting it' right before the injury. If we could have developed any semblance of a run game i think we would have had just enough to get the extra 2 wins and would have comfortably held that playoff spot. Being able to secure a wild card would have justified everything, and it fell short unfortunately. Lacy was a disaster and without Carson it became a full blown impossibility to win the required games. Even prosise staying healthy probably could have got us there imo, but cj prosise staying healthy has become fool's gold for me now, and i know he'll have a 1,000 yard season and stay healthy the second we release him and the Patriots pick him up.

toffee · May 18, 2018

Optimus25":13wpj9sy said:
toffee":13wpj9sy said:

Only that they did it a season too late, should have traded away the big mouths, the come get mes, etc last summer. We could have gotten so many more picks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

i have two items to use to talk about why it wasn't bad to cling to hope last year and not do that. 1. Nobody could have predicted the progression of goff, resurgence of gurley, and the coming of age in mcvay all happening like a flash of lightning the way it did. I think about 85% of the free world pegged the hawks as division favorites going in, including me, and quite frankly that was solely because of the big mouths, come get mes, etc. Go ask a bills or Cincinnati fan how valuable a playoff game is to put that in perspective. Why derail a train that had been rolling into the post season for what?. 5 years straight?. 2. Chris Carson was starting to click and i felt like he was 'getting it' right before the injury. If we could have developed any semblance of a run game i think we would have had just enough to get the extra 2 wins and would have comfortably held that playoff spot. Being able to secure a wild card would have justified everything, and it fell short unfortunately. Lacy was a disaster and without Carson it became a full blown impossibility to win the required games. Even prosise staying healthy probably could have got us there imo, but cj prosise staying healthy has become fool's gold for me now, and i know he'll have a 1,000 yard season and stay healthy the second we release him and the Patriots pick him up.

in fairness, Pete did tried half heartedly to shop Sherm, and Earl needed a show me you didn’t lost a step season to get trade value. And homers like toffee could also say that if Fant didn’t hurt, he could be a pro bowler last season.

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Atradees · May 18, 2018

The article is pure speculation. in the NFL its so rare to get actual news we have to guess and predict.

MontanaHawk05 · May 19, 2018

Own The West":3thbutjg said:
With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel.

Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett were still near the top of their game in 2017. There isn't a single statistic out there that really counters that to any serious degree. Bennett actually had one of his best years in terms of sacks. They didn't need to elevate their performances, and the coaches didn't need to make excuses for them.

Talk about the increasing injury risk that comes with age, if you like. That's a more sensible reason to let them go. But if you're going to pretend they'd become bad players, you're just arguing with tape and hard numbers.

SanDiego49er · May 19, 2018

Every team does it. You have your run. Then guys get older, injured and some leave in Free Agency. You always have to reset and rebuild. They will be fine. They will plug in some younger, faster, less injured players. That's not always a bad thing. You are always rebuilding year after year in the NFL. It goes on forever.

MD5eahawks · May 19, 2018

I don't think they "decided" to reset. I think they planned it. I feel that they had a base plan and they are sticking with it. Put a team together that is fast on defense and long on time for offense. A great defense in today's NFL doesn't happen if you can't run the ball and they tried like hell to get that run game back.

I don't think they expected to develop and/or find as many stars as they did. They also didn't seem to plan on keeping too many of of them past 2017. There are two players that are not going anywhere and are in a category of untouchable. Wilson & Wagner. The offensive & defensive center pieces.

Cyrus12 · May 19, 2018

Reset or rebuild...I'm going with the latter.

scutterhawk · May 19, 2018

Cyrus12":25xrl1hq said:
Reset or rebuild...I'm going with the latter.

Constant pounding takes it's toll on players, some positions more than others...(Marshawn Lynch is a prime example) and once they get dinged up, they are seldom (if ever) going to get back to playing at anywhere near 100%.
IF Pete had any hopes to reignite his Run Game, he was going to have to RELOAD with hungrier players, and that's why he Drafted Penny in the first round.
Apparently Pete disagreed with the folks that were thinking that he could have gotten Penny, or someone just as viable in the later rounds.

AROS · May 19, 2018

It's an interesting "what if" game to play, as in what if they fired Bevell the day after XLIX? It's hard for me not to think it could have changed some of the dynamic in the season's since. The players desperately needed accountability for that train wreck of a call that cost them back-to-back championships and it never came. It fractured that locker room, make no mistake about it.

Would Sherman and Bennett still be here? We will never know. What I do know is that the Seahawks have done what they feel is necessary to "reload" and get young and hungry again.

scutterhawk · May 19, 2018

Aros":368qspyp said:
It's an interesting "what if" game to play, as in what if they fired Bevell the day after XLIX? It's hard for me not to think it could have changed some of the dynamic in the season's since. The players desperately needed accountability for that train wreck of a call that cost them back-to-back championships and it never came. It fractured that locker room, make no mistake about it.

Would Sherman and Bennett still be here? We will never know. What I do know is that the Seahawks have done what they feel is necessary to "reload" and get young and hungry again.

No disrespect, but I kind of see that as a "Blame Game" and not a whole lot of absolute truth comes from that.
In other words, pointing the finger at ONE person for that loss, paints over the MULTI reasons for the mistakes made by OTHER players in that particular game, leaving several others to getting a free pass for their flub-ups.
With Pete's vaunted Defense, Brady never should have had such an easy time overcoming that 10 point deficit.... that was a contributing factor for that loss.
I am NOT sticking up for Darryl Bevell, (GLAD HE'S GONE) I just absolutely do believe that there was more than enough blame to go around.

JustTheTip · May 19, 2018

Sports Hernia":3bu3vtl4 said:
Own The West":3bu3vtl4 said:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

Click to expand...

While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.

Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

scutterhawk · May 19, 2018

JustTheTip":3ox3xc92 said:
Sports Hernia":3ox3xc92 said:

Own The West":3ox3xc92 said:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

Click to expand...

While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.

Click to expand...

Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

That's my exact point...that "Epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent" was playing with injuries, and THAT didn't HELP......Blaming the loss on ONE PLAY & ONE PERSON = EXCUSES

NJlargent · May 19, 2018

There were a lot of reasons we lost 49 but only one matters. That’s how everyone sees it, including our players that got us there.

Jville · May 19, 2018

It isn't just players that need to grow up and mature. Some of us clearly need to really work on dealing with our individual disappointments. How can anyone deal with disappointments in their own personal lives if they can't handle disappointing draft picks and play calls that are completely outside of their sphere of influence. Sometimes I really wonder about this forum's maturity, emotional health and sense of reality.

With regards to the linked material, it reads like an excerpt from someones personal diary. I don't know what is going on at Field Gulls. What they are posting lately is rather weak. Perhaps they are just filling dead space.

vin.couve12 · May 19, 2018

Very much appreciate the above post. The notion that the NFL or NFL players are supposed to be some lordship above the peasants of society is just weird to me. It's really friggin weird.

Just like other things in life and all existence, things inevitably run their course. You move on with what you have or you don't. It doesn't negate the personal experience, but we are all subject to base level ish.

JustTheTip · May 19, 2018

scutterhawk":2rgqztir said:
JustTheTip":2rgqztir said:

Sports Hernia":2rgqztir said:

Own The West":2rgqztir said:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

Click to expand...

While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.

Click to expand...

Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

Click to expand...

That's my exact point...that "Epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent" was playing with injuries, and THAT didn't HELP......Blaming the loss on ONE PLAY & ONE PERSON = EXCUSES

Not referring to 49 but rather the dysfunctional years that followed as fallout. And it wasn't about one play, that play was just final straw.

scutterhawk · May 20, 2018

JustTheTip":1oj13r4k said:
scutterhawk":1oj13r4k said:

JustTheTip":1oj13r4k said:

Sports Hernia":1oj13r4k said:

While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.

Click to expand...

Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

Click to expand...

That's my exact point...that "Epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent" was playing with injuries, and THAT didn't HELP......Blaming the loss on ONE PLAY & ONE PERSON = EXCUSES

Click to expand...

Not referring to 49 but rather the dysfunctional years that followed as fallout. And it wasn't about one play, that play was just final straw.

Not learning to let it go after 49 is probably the reason a couple of those players got "Let Go"
There's a damn good reason they keep saying "Protect The Team"
Acting out and spouting off in public is very immature.

Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'

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