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Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'

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Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 2:58 pm
  • https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

    I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

    It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

    It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 3:32 pm
  • Own The West wrote:https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

    I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

    It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

    It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

    While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

    IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 4:23 pm
  • Only that they did it a season too late, should have traded away the big mouths, the come get mes, etc last summer. We could have gotten so many more picks.


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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 5:25 pm
  • toffee wrote:Only that they did it a season too late, should have traded away the big mouths, the come get mes, etc last summer. We could have gotten so many more picks.


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    i have two items to use to talk about why it wasn't bad to cling to hope last year and not do that. 1. Nobody could have predicted the progression of goff, resurgence of gurley, and the coming of age in mcvay all happening like a flash of lightning the way it did. I think about 85% of the free world pegged the hawks as division favorites going in, including me, and quite frankly that was solely because of the big mouths, come get mes, etc. Go ask a bills or Cincinnati fan how valuable a playoff game is to put that in perspective. Why derail a train that had been rolling into the post season for what?. 5 years straight?. 2. Chris Carson was starting to click and i felt like he was 'getting it' right before the injury. If we could have developed any semblance of a run game i think we would have had just enough to get the extra 2 wins and would have comfortably held that playoff spot. Being able to secure a wild card would have justified everything, and it fell short unfortunately. Lacy was a disaster and without Carson it became a full blown impossibility to win the required games. Even prosise staying healthy probably could have got us there imo, but cj prosise staying healthy has become fool's gold for me now, and i know he'll have a 1,000 yard season and stay healthy the second we release him and the Patriots pick him up.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 5:50 pm
  • Optimus25 wrote:
    toffee wrote:Only that they did it a season too late, should have traded away the big mouths, the come get mes, etc last summer. We could have gotten so many more picks.


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    i have two items to use to talk about why it wasn't bad to cling to hope last year and not do that. 1. Nobody could have predicted the progression of goff, resurgence of gurley, and the coming of age in mcvay all happening like a flash of lightning the way it did. I think about 85% of the free world pegged the hawks as division favorites going in, including me, and quite frankly that was solely because of the big mouths, come get mes, etc. Go ask a bills or Cincinnati fan how valuable a playoff game is to put that in perspective. Why derail a train that had been rolling into the post season for what?. 5 years straight?. 2. Chris Carson was starting to click and i felt like he was 'getting it' right before the injury. If we could have developed any semblance of a run game i think we would have had just enough to get the extra 2 wins and would have comfortably held that playoff spot. Being able to secure a wild card would have justified everything, and it fell short unfortunately. Lacy was a disaster and without Carson it became a full blown impossibility to win the required games. Even prosise staying healthy probably could have got us there imo, but cj prosise staying healthy has become fool's gold for me now, and i know he'll have a 1,000 yard season and stay healthy the second we release him and the Patriots pick him up.
    in fairness, Pete did tried half heartedly to shop Sherm, and Earl needed a show me you didn’t lost a step season to get trade value. And homers like toffee could also say that if Fant didn’t hurt, he could be a pro bowler last season.


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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 7:40 pm
  • The article is pure speculation. in the NFL its so rare to get actual news we have to guess and predict.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 11:29 pm
  • Own The West wrote:With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel.


    Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett were still near the top of their game in 2017. There isn't a single statistic out there that really counters that to any serious degree. Bennett actually had one of his best years in terms of sacks. They didn't need to elevate their performances, and the coaches didn't need to make excuses for them.

    Talk about the increasing injury risk that comes with age, if you like. That's a more sensible reason to let them go. But if you're going to pretend they'd become bad players, you're just arguing with tape and hard numbers.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri May 18, 2018 11:51 pm
  • Every team does it. You have your run. Then guys get older, injured and some leave in Free Agency. You always have to reset and rebuild. They will be fine. They will plug in some younger, faster, less injured players. That's not always a bad thing. You are always rebuilding year after year in the NFL. It goes on forever.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 5:42 am
  • I don't think they "decided" to reset. I think they planned it. I feel that they had a base plan and they are sticking with it. Put a team together that is fast on defense and long on time for offense. A great defense in today's NFL doesn't happen if you can't run the ball and they tried like hell to get that run game back.

    I don't think they expected to develop and/or find as many stars as they did. They also didn't seem to plan on keeping too many of of them past 2017. There are two players that are not going anywhere and are in a category of untouchable. Wilson & Wagner. The offensive & defensive center pieces.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 5:56 am
  • Reset or rebuild...I'm going with the latter.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 9:02 am
  • Cyrus12 wrote:Reset or rebuild...I'm going with the latter.

    Constant pounding takes it's toll on players, some positions more than others...(Marshawn Lynch is a prime example) and once they get dinged up, they are seldom (if ever) going to get back to playing at anywhere near 100%.
    IF Pete had any hopes to reignite his Run Game, he was going to have to RELOAD with hungrier players, and that's why he Drafted Penny in the first round.
    Apparently Pete disagreed with the folks that were thinking that he could have gotten Penny, or someone just as viable in the later rounds.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 4:30 pm
  • It's an interesting "what if" game to play, as in what if they fired Bevell the day after XLIX? It's hard for me not to think it could have changed some of the dynamic in the season's since. The players desperately needed accountability for that train wreck of a call that cost them back-to-back championships and it never came. It fractured that locker room, make no mistake about it.

    Would Sherman and Bennett still be here? We will never know. What I do know is that the Seahawks have done what they feel is necessary to "reload" and get young and hungry again.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 5:37 pm
  • Aros wrote:It's an interesting "what if" game to play, as in what if they fired Bevell the day after XLIX? It's hard for me not to think it could have changed some of the dynamic in the season's since. The players desperately needed accountability for that train wreck of a call that cost them back-to-back championships and it never came. It fractured that locker room, make no mistake about it.

    Would Sherman and Bennett still be here? We will never know. What I do know is that the Seahawks have done what they feel is necessary to "reload" and get young and hungry again.


    No disrespect, but I kind of see that as a "Blame Game" and not a whole lot of absolute truth comes from that.
    In other words, pointing the finger at ONE person for that loss, paints over the MULTI reasons for the mistakes made by OTHER players in that particular game, leaving several others to getting a free pass for their flub-ups.
    With Pete's vaunted Defense, Brady never should have had such an easy time overcoming that 10 point deficit.... that was a contributing factor for that loss.
    I am NOT sticking up for Darryl Bevell, (GLAD HE'S GONE) I just absolutely do believe that there was more than enough blame to go around.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 5:40 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Own The West wrote:https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

    I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

    It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

    It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

    While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

    IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.


    Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 6:03 pm
  • JustTheTip wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    Own The West wrote:https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

    I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

    It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

    It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

    While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

    IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.


    Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

    That's my exact point...that "Epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent" was playing with injuries, and THAT didn't HELP......Blaming the loss on ONE PLAY & ONE PERSON = EXCUSES
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 6:09 pm
  • There were a lot of reasons we lost 49 but only one matters. That’s how everyone sees it, including our players that got us there.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 7:30 pm
  • It isn't just players that need to grow up and mature. Some of us clearly need to really work on dealing with our individual disappointments. How can anyone deal with disappointments in their own personal lives if they can't handle disappointing draft picks and play calls that are completely outside of their sphere of influence. Sometimes I really wonder about this forum's maturity, emotional health and sense of reality.

    With regards to the linked material, it reads like an excerpt from someones personal diary. I don't know what is going on at Field Gulls. What they are posting lately is rather weak. Perhaps they are just filling dead space.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 7:55 pm
  • Very much appreciate the above post. The notion that the NFL or NFL players are supposed to be some lordship above the peasants of society is just weird to me. It's really friggin weird.

    Just like other things in life and all existence, things inevitably run their course. You move on with what you have or you don't. It doesn't negate the personal experience, but we are all subject to base level ish.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 19, 2018 9:54 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    JustTheTip wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    Own The West wrote:https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

    I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

    It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

    It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

    While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

    IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.


    Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

    That's my exact point...that "Epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent" was playing with injuries, and THAT didn't HELP......Blaming the loss on ONE PLAY & ONE PERSON = EXCUSES


    Not referring to 49 but rather the dysfunctional years that followed as fallout. And it wasn't about one play, that play was just final straw.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sun May 20, 2018 2:41 pm
  • JustTheTip wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    JustTheTip wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:While I’m glad they finally decided to “blow it up” sort of, I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

    IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.


    Exactly this. Not holding the coaches to the same level of the "always compete" mantra as the players is what killed this team. Such an epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent level.

    That's my exact point...that "Epic waste of potentially once in a generation talent" was playing with injuries, and THAT didn't HELP......Blaming the loss on ONE PLAY & ONE PERSON = EXCUSES


    Not referring to 49 but rather the dysfunctional years that followed as fallout. And it wasn't about one play, that play was just final straw.

    Not learning to let it go after 49 is probably the reason a couple of those players got "Let Go"
    There's a damn good reason they keep saying "Protect The Team"
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sun May 20, 2018 2:53 pm
  • Double standards will undermine any team in any profession. After 49 the players knew the coaches were not held to the same standard so when they heard "always compete" they would just roll their eyes and say "yeah right". It slowly eats away at the team.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Mon May 21, 2018 9:05 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Own The West wrote:With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel.


    Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett were still near the top of their game in 2017. There isn't a single statistic out there that really counters that to any serious degree. Bennett actually had one of his best years in terms of sacks. They didn't need to elevate their performances, and the coaches didn't need to make excuses for them.

    Talk about the increasing injury risk that comes with age, if you like. That's a more sensible reason to let them go. But if you're going to pretend they'd become bad players, you're just arguing with tape and hard numbers.


    I wasn't trying to say Sherman and Bennett played poorly, but they had plateaued. And that their leadership may have taken a negative turn: where instead of adding their voices to the "I'm In / Always Compete" message, they were pointing fingers and self-promoting.

    I'm sure you've had those high-performers in your organizations or teams that may have inspired early on, but turned into morale-sapping divas later. How do you combat that other that to humble them or move them out? In the NFL, where players can appeal directly to the fan base, it's easier to move them out.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Mon May 21, 2018 9:12 am
  • Atradees wrote:The article is pure speculation. in the NFL its so rare to get actual news we have to guess and predict.


    What else is there to talk about in the off season before camp starts.

    The main reason we decided to reset is because we went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Amazing how fast coaches and GM's snap into focus when they're not winning.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Mon May 21, 2018 9:37 am
  • Own The West wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Own The West wrote:With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel.


    Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett were still near the top of their game in 2017. There isn't a single statistic out there that really counters that to any serious degree. Bennett actually had one of his best years in terms of sacks. They didn't need to elevate their performances, and the coaches didn't need to make excuses for them.

    Talk about the increasing injury risk that comes with age, if you like. That's a more sensible reason to let them go. But if you're going to pretend they'd become bad players, you're just arguing with tape and hard numbers.


    I wasn't trying to say Sherman and Bennett played poorly, but they had plateaued. And that their leadership may have taken a negative turn: where instead of adding their voices to the "I'm In / Always Compete" message, they were pointing fingers and self-promoting.

    I'm sure you've had those high-performers in your organizations or teams that may have inspired early on, but turned into morale-sapping divas later. How do you combat that other that to humble them or move them out? In the NFL, where players can appeal directly to the fan base, it's easier to move them out.


    That morale-sapping is an intangible. Impossible to quantify or falsify. What CAN be quantified and falsified is how well those players were backing up their play on the field. That's what we all called it in 2013 when Seattle was winning. It's only now that we're losing that it suddenly gets called "morale-sapping".

    Seattle missed the playoffs because of Blair Walsh and injury. It sucks, and people don't want to give the injury contribution its full weight because it's a factor that's out of Seattle's control and that's frustrating. But it is the only explanation that's really needed.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Mon May 21, 2018 9:54 am
  • Yeah, just way too many injuries to overcome. Add that to a crap kicker and pathetic O Line and it's amazing they won 9 games. A few made kicks from 11 wins.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Mon May 21, 2018 5:26 pm
  • Own The West wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Own The West wrote:With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel.


    Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett were still near the top of their game in 2017. There isn't a single statistic out there that really counters that to any serious degree. Bennett actually had one of his best years in terms of sacks. They didn't need to elevate their performances, and the coaches didn't need to make excuses for them.

    Talk about the increasing injury risk that comes with age, if you like. That's a more sensible reason to let them go. But if you're going to pretend they'd become bad players, you're just arguing with tape and hard numbers.


    I wasn't trying to say Sherman and Bennett played poorly, but they had plateaued. And that their leadership may have taken a negative turn: where instead of adding their voices to the "I'm In / Always Compete" message, they were pointing fingers and self-promoting.

    I'm sure you've had those high-performers in your organizations or teams that may have inspired early on, but turned into morale-sapping divas later. How do you combat that other that to humble them or move them out? In the NFL, where players can appeal directly to the fan base, it's easier to move them out.


    Yeah Platueing as a All Pro and Pro Bowler sucks they should have been league MVP'S every year.
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Tue May 22, 2018 6:15 am
  • Yeah, if you're not the best in the league every single year, that's just not acceptable :lol:
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sat May 26, 2018 1:05 am
  • Aros wrote:It's an interesting "what if" game to play, as in what if they fired Bevell the day after XLIX? It's hard for me not to think it could have changed some of the dynamic in the season's since. The players desperately needed accountability for that train wreck of a call that cost them back-to-back championships and it never came. It fractured that locker room, make no mistake about it.

    Would Sherman and Bennett still be here? We will never know. What I do know is that the Seahawks have done what they feel is necessary to "reload" and get young and hungry again.

    I think it would have made a world of difference IMHO. It would have showed tha EVERYONE is held accountable, EVEN the coaching staff. It would have showed EVERYONE can and will be replaced if they underperform. It would have shown “the always compete” mantra still had teeth. I think Seattle would have had one more Lombardi if the axe would have fallen on a certain OC after XLIX.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

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    Sports Hernia
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Sun May 27, 2018 12:41 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:I think it would have made a world of difference IMHO. It would have showed that EVERYONE is held accountable, EVEN the coaching staff. It would have showed EVERYONE can and will be replaced if they under perform. It would have shown “the always compete” mantra still had teeth.


    Exactly. Instead, Pete decided to take the sword and keep the status quo alive and healthy. And it cost him big time. It cost us ALL the potential for at least two championships if not a modern day dynasty.

    Sigh.
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    Aros
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Re: Why the Seahawks decided to 'reset'
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:04 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Own The West wrote:https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/18/17368496/pete-carroll-blew-it-all-up-for-a-reason

    I wish they had picked a better graph to illustrate their point, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

    It make sense anecdotally. With a bunch of aging vets that feel they've 'arrived' and don't need to elevate their game, a bunch of complacent coaches that find it easier to stand on excuses than performances, and a backlog of young talent that can't get the reps they need to excel. You're going to see the physical wear down of the season, but not the growth that counters it.

    It would be interesting if someone has access to the football outsiders data to see how strong a correlation there is between in-season DVOA improvement and playoff wins.

    I believe they should have fired a couple of offensive coaches a day after the XLIX debacle. That would have held those failed offensive coaches accountable on the spot, and would have had 3 more seasons with “the core” still intact with a BETTER mindset, knowing not only players but coaches will be held accountable for their mistakes.

    IMHO they wasted 3 seasons by not taking action after that horrible day.



    ^^^^
    this!!!!!!
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