Cliff Avril checks in on where things went wrong

Seymour

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Nothing new here, just different player speaking out. Same thing Bennett and Sherman have been saying. Pete lost the team. We can no longer deny this, and IMO Pete knows this and that is why Earl is / was being shopped. I heard part of the interview on 950 yesterday (was actually the NFL network interview), so no blaming Field Gulls on speculation here.

On Wednesday, Avril reaffirmed what some other former Seahawks players have already said: that the second Super Bowl loss — rather than bring the team together because of how close they came to repeating as champions — started to tear the team apart. In talking to Dave Dameshak, Avril said players questioned Carroll’s belief in his own philosophy when the team chose to pass on the goal line against the New England Patriots rather than run:

The relevant piece of what Avril said, first noting that he thinks the Seahawks would have won a third Super Bowl in the following two seasons if they had beaten the Pats: “I do think that the team would have bought in more to what Coach Carroll was saying instead of going the opposite way of — this is what we thought the foundation of the team was and that’s not what happened in that particular play. So I think guys started questioning him a little more — rather than following his lead if we had won the Super Bowl.

“A lot of guys got turned off by the message.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/2...tioned-pete-carroll-following-super-bowl-play
 

themunn

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So what I'm reading is Avril still believes Carroll's philosophy would have brought another superbowl win and it's because guys stopped believing in the philosophy that meant that we didn't
 

Sgt. Largent

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I love the hell out of Avril, he's one of the most honorable stand up players to ever put on a Hawk uniform.............but I'm tired of this narrative.

It's too easy, it's too convenient, and it's just flat out wrong.

1. Our offense handed the defense a 10 pt lead going into the 4th quarter. Where was the defense taking responsibility?
2. MOST teams pass on the goal line with one time out and the defense showing heavy run goalline package. Doesn't make it a bad call. HORRIBLE execution obviously, but not a bad call.
3. All this does is diminish the integrity of those players who decided to dwell on a loss, instead of going even harder the next year with the most talented roster in the NFL.

So enough already with pinning this on Pete. That loss was on the players. Period. They didn't execute. They didn't hold the lead.

But I know, it's much easier to blame Pete for not running? BS.
 
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Seymour

Seymour

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SoulfishHawk":fkbx4p0u said:
What about the D giving up a 10 point 4th quarter lead? That had nothing to do with it? :lol:

Of course it did! IMO that was the main cause. But the players (at least now the 3rd on defense) won't bring that up. Also, it is human nature to think that the ending is the main culprit, even though any play changing can make the difference.

This could be more of a resentment of offense by defense thing seeing as where all the chatter is coming from.
 

Jimjones0384

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Seymour":30302p1s said:
Nothing new here, just different player speaking out. Same thing Bennett and Sherman have been saying. Pete lost the team. We can no longer deny this, and IMO Pete knows this and that is why Earl is / was being shopped. I heard part of the interview on 950 yesterday (was actually the NFL network interview), so no blaming Field Gulls on speculation here.

On Wednesday, Avril reaffirmed what some other former Seahawks players have already said: that the second Super Bowl loss — rather than bring the team together because of how close they came to repeating as champions — started to tear the team apart. In talking to Dave Dameshak, Avril said players questioned Carroll’s belief in his own philosophy when the team chose to pass on the goal line against the New England Patriots rather than run:

The relevant piece of what Avril said, first noting that he thinks the Seahawks would have won a third Super Bowl in the following two seasons if they had beaten the Pats: “I do think that the team would have bought in more to what Coach Carroll was saying instead of going the opposite way of — this is what we thought the foundation of the team was and that’s not what happened in that particular play. So I think guys started questioning him a little more — rather than following his lead if we had won the Super Bowl.

“A lot of guys got turned off by the message.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/2...tioned-pete-carroll-following-super-bowl-play

Never been about denial. Just, are we gonna keep beating this dead horse over and over again, for years and years to come?
 
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Seymour

Seymour

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Jimjones0384":2nba0khl said:
Never been about denial. Just, are we gonna keep beating this dead horse over and over again, for years and years to come?

No. Problem is, the horse is not dead. We are getting REAL news about it now with players speaking out, not 100% fan speculation like before. It's off season news that is interesting discussion with new confirmed information. If that bothers anyone, they could just pass on by...right?

Many consider this the worst play call in NFL history (I don't). That will NEVER stop getting talked about.
 

hawknation2018

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themunn":1n4gnfxd said:
So what I'm reading is Avril still believes Carroll's philosophy would have brought another superbowl win and it's because guys stopped believing in the philosophy that meant that we didn't

:ditto:

The firing of Bevell completed the circle, if you will, reaffirming the team's commitment to competition, accountability, and physicality.
 

SoulfishHawk

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No matter what, this seemingly will never go away. I get it, it hurts, I was in the stands and watched it happen right in front of me. A vision I'll never get rid of. But for players to put this all on Pete w/out looking in the mirror is pretty weak.
 
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Seymour

Seymour

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SoulfishHawk":1071u9lx said:
No matter what, this seemingly will never go away. I get it, it hurts, I was in the stands and watched it happen right in front of me. A vision I'll never get rid of. But for players to put this all on Pete w/out looking in the mirror is pretty weak.

Problem is, in Avril's case he was knocked out of the game. Also with other injuries defense has a built in excuse to blow off their part.

My biggest problem is those saying this was about making Russell MVP over Lynch. That is a load of crap. They had 26 seconds to go, 3 plays and 1 time out. To use all 3 plays they needed 1 pass in there. It was a logical call (pass) but a shitty route and player to call IMO.

I still believe Pete said pass (as he admitted) and Bevell called that shitty inside slant.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":1djsmiue said:
Many consider this the worst play call in NFL history (I don't). That will NEVER stop getting talked about.


This is the worst playcall in NFL history.

epicfail.0.gif
 

Sports Hernia

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2. MOST teams pass on the goal line with one time out and the defense showing heavy run goalline package. Doesn't make it a bad call. HORRIBLE execution obviously, but not a bad call.
SGTLargent.

——————-

Speaking of an easy, lazy and wrong assessment.
It was obviously a shit play call for numerous reasons and most of the players that PLAYED in that game agree.
I know you’ll disagree, and if we continue this it will turn into the same circular argument. Last word is yours.
 

Popeyejones

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Sgt. Largent":2hc4074l said:
I love the hell out of Avril, he's one of the most honorable stand up players to ever put on a Hawk uniform.............but I'm tired of this narrative.

It's too easy, it's too convenient, and it's just flat out wrong.

1. Our offense handed the defense a 10 pt lead going into the 4th quarter. Where was the defense taking responsibility?
2. MOST teams pass on the goal line with one time out and the defense showing heavy run goalline package. Doesn't make it a bad call. HORRIBLE execution obviously, but not a bad call.
3. All this does is diminish the integrity of those players who decided to dwell on a loss, instead of going even harder the next year with the most talented roster in the NFL.

So enough already with pinning this on Pete. That loss was on the players. Period. They didn't execute. They didn't hold the lead.

But I know, it's much easier to blame Pete for not running? BS.

Agreed with all of this. The only thing I'd quibble with is saying "that loss was on the players."

From where I sit, if we're going to attribute that loss to something, we should first and foremost attribute it to the Pats being exceptionally well coached, and second, to Malcolm Butler making a hell of a play. :2thumbs:
 

Sgt. Largent

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Sports Hernia":2r946jz5 said:
2. MOST teams pass on the goal line with one time out and the defense showing heavy run goalline package. Doesn't make it a bad call. HORRIBLE execution obviously, but not a bad call.
SGTLargent.

——————-

Speaking of an easy, lazy and wrong assessment.
It was obviously a shit play call for numerous reasons and most of the players that PLAYED in that game agree.
I know you’ll disagree, and if we continue this it will turn into the same circular argument. Last word is yours.

I also would rather not get into this circular argument for the 1,000th time about this dead horse topic.

But here are the facts;

- NFL teams run and pass about equally from the 1, passing just under 50% of the time.

- Patriot's had their goalline run heavy defense on the field, Revis even said they all expected the run. So why would you run the ball when they were expecting it, and we weren't all that successful all year with Marshawn from the goalline (3 of 10 TD tries I think?)

ESPN even did an article arguing both sides..........and they're right, it was a toss up call. That doesn't make it a bad call, again it was an EXTREMELY poorly executed call, from the low hike, to the high throw to Kearse getting bitch slapped by Browner and not getting to his pick block on Butler.

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post ... from-the-1

So sure, I'll debate maybe going with a lower risk roll out and corner or outside slant pass, rather than a riskier throw in the middle of the field. That's debatable for sure. But JUST passing the ball instead of running? That didn't make it a bad call, every team does it, and has equal success.
 

TwistedHusky

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I find it interesting that every time a key player points out that YES that stupid play call DID disrupt the team - people rush to dismiss it. And make excuses for why they think it isn't true.

It really does not matter why. Or whether the assessment it was a bad play was correct or not.

What matters is that key people THAT WERE PLAYERS are saying that it affected the team and caused them to stop listening to Carroll's message because it was inconsistent with his actions.

The Defense got us to that SB and it was the injuries to the defense that allowed NE back into it and allowed them to win it.

If they care about something, it matters.

What you think does not matter.

Whether you believe it is valid does not matter.

What matters is the defense thought it was valid and it was enough to impact them. They are the ones that win or lose the football games and if they believe something matters - it does.

We did screw it up. Multiple ways.
 

HawkGA

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Firing Bevell would have fixed everything. Even if Pete didn't think it would be fair, something needed to be done. He couldn't rah-rah is way out of it and he should have known that.
 
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Seymour

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HawkGA":13ci5qif said:
Firing Bevell would have fixed everything. Even if Pete didn't think it would be fair, something needed to be done. He couldn't rah-rah is way out of it and he should have known that.

Disagree. That leaves Cable and our continued pathetic oline play, outdated scheme, and drafting and FA signings.
 

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SoulfishHawk":2ypzewh7 said:
What about the D giving up a 10 point 4th quarter lead? That had nothing to do with it? :lol:

I am SO TIRED of this narrative

Seahawks offense LAST FOUR POSSESSIONS in the Super Bowl

Number of plays
4, 3, 3, 7

Time:
2.2, 2.07, 1.03 and 1.42

Result

Punt, Punt, Punt, Interception

The ONLY thing the offense accomplished on those four drives was putting a depleted defense back on the field time after time. The offense and specifically Bevell and PC gave the game away
 

mikeak

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Separately and AGAIN saying X% is pass is a lazy argument

Passing up the middle into congestion with an empty backfield from the 1 on 1st through 3rd down is ALWAYS a bad call.

Run a PA / role-out where QB can throw it away, fade to the corner or a bunch of other passing plays is a different story. Nobody really said passing is bad. It is the passing PLAY that was against our identity and not accounted for in the statistics

Seattle was a destination spot. It is where good players took 1 year deals to win. That was turned into getting guys like Joeckel for $8 million and this playcall is the center piece for how that “turnaround” started
 
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