Seahawks.NET AMAZON STOREFRONT

Carroll falls to #4 in Sporting News Coach Rankings

The Essential Online Seattle Football Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
  • 4. Pete Carroll, Seahawks

    Last year: 2
    Record: 112-79-1, .621
    Playoffs: 9-5, .643

    After Seattle missed the playoffs and did some house-cleaning, we're about to see the next chapter of the Carroll era. That might be needed, and the Seahawks still had a winning record last season. The stakes are raised in a tough division, but Carroll should keep his team in the hunt.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nf ... nc/slide/4


    Doug Pederson went from #22 to #2 in one year. Mike Tomlin went from #4 to #3.

    Strangely, this could be Carroll's best shot to win NFL Coach of the Year honors because that award tends to go to the head coach who surprises people the most. Expectations are decidedly low against the potential of what the team is capable of doing, which sets up the possibility.
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • after last season I'm somewhat surprised his ranking isn't lower. Results count except when the Seahawks slaughter the Broncos in the Super Bowl.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

    Super Bowl XLVIII Champions at last after 38 seasons. Awesome!!!
    jammerhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5047
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:13 pm


  • A lot more believable than the ranking that had him at #14. I'm okay with Pederson making such a steep jump, what he accomplished given major injuries was very impressive. I can get behind that more so than the rankings that have McVay in the top 5 and Shanahan in the top 10.
    adeltaY
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2212
    Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:22 pm
    Location: Portland, OR


  • I actually agree with the ranking. If anything maybe even a little high. The reason is a good coach takes the people they have and builds around their strengths. I am not convinced he did a good job of that last year.
    User avatar
    Hawk1217
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 81
    Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:37 am


  • Carroll had one of the most talented teams in the league for years and regularly flamed out in the playoffs. (Unless you count wildcard games).

    One of the best QBs in the league and literally had no offense in the 1st half of games for several years. And that is WITH guys like Jimmy Graham on the team. The offense was not threadbare.

    Finally, Carroll kept one of the worst OCs in the game for years past his due date.

    I have a hard time believing there are not 5 coaches in the league that are not better than him. Results do matter. And the SB was near half a decade ago.

    I love the guy came here. But the #14 ranking was probably closer to reality than #4. I would put him in the 7-10 range.

    But hey, he turns this whole thing around this year and he can earn the #4 to show that ranking was correct.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2851
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:48 pm


  • Hawk1217 wrote:I actually agree with the ranking. If anything maybe even a little high. The reason is a good coach takes the people they have and builds around their strengths. I am not convinced he did a good job of that last year.


    The problem was, "the guys he had" were a direct result of guys he brought in to strengthen the roster.

    What strengths do you build around when you pay guys like Lacey, Walsh, and Joeckel to carry the load?

    Pete lost the team last season. Anyone in denial of that is not facing the reality of what took place, and what he did this year to resolve it. Losing your team with a talented roster doesn't get you in the top 10 IMO. Overall Pete is better then that yes, but last year somewhere from 8-12 is about right IMO. You also need to judge him by his weakest links in Cabevell that he kept far too long and was a major reason for losing the players as well.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • It's actually quite funny to read these posts one after another.

    You have one side that wants to give him zero credit for personnel decisions, like trading for Lynch and drafting Thomas, Sherman, Chancellor, Wagner, Wright, etc.

    Then you have another side that wants to credit him with EVERY bad personnel decision.

    Carroll has won playoff games in all six years he has taken the Seahawks to the playoffs. No other coach can say that.

    In those six playoff berths, in eight seasons, he took the team to two Super Bowls. Only three active coaches have done that: Carroll, Tomlin, and Belichick.

    His defenses led the league in scoring defense for four-consecutive years.

    He set NFL records for most consecutive games without losing by more than seven points and by 10 points. He accomplished the same feat in college football.

    If not for one ill-fated decision, Carroll would be 3-0 against Bill Belichick with two-consecutive Super Bowl championships.

    Fortunately, he made the difficult decision this off-season to move on from his coordinators, whom he had quite a bit of success with.

    Now begins the next chapter of his coaching career.
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • In hindsight, what was accomplished in 2015 and 2016 was very impressive considering all the injuries that took place.

    In 2015, they suffered injuries to Marshawn Lynch, Jimmy Graham, Paul Richardson, Thomas Rawls, among others. They came very close to coming back and beating Carolina in the playoffs, despite no running game and Wilson throwing a couple uncharacteristic INTs.

    In 2016, they were on pace to lead the NFL in scoring defense for a 5th-straight year, until Earl Thomas got hurt. Russell Wilson dealt with a number of injuries that season, yet they still won the division. They also won a playoff game for a 5th-consecutive year.

    The unyielding criticism, since the Super Bowl loss, has been probably the most difficult obstacle, next to the injuries.
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • Why are you not giving Carroll credit for recruiting and developing those guys. I don't think they would have been as good for other teams as they were, have been, or are for us. Pete built the team with John and has input on any personnel decisions he wants to, good or bad outcome.
    adeltaY
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2212
    Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:22 pm
    Location: Portland, OR


  • adeltaY wrote:Why are you not giving Carroll credit for recruiting and developing those guys. I don't think they would have been as good for other teams as they were, have been, or are for us. Pete built the team with John and has input on any personnel decisions he wants to, good or bad outcome.

    Exactly. Pete is dinged for having a talented team, but not credited for putting together the talented team. Pretty easy to see what agenda is being followed there.
    User avatar
    KiwiHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2007
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:22 pm
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand


  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Why are you not giving Carroll credit for recruiting and developing those guys. I don't think they would have been as good for other teams as they were, have been, or are for us. Pete built the team with John and has input on any personnel decisions he wants to, good or bad outcome.

    Exactly. Pete is dinged for having a talented team, but not credited for putting together the talented team. Pretty easy to see what agenda is being followed there.


    Who are these questions being directed to? Or is that a club secret thing there?
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • Just you Seymour :P
    adeltaY
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2212
    Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:22 pm
    Location: Portland, OR


  • adeltaY wrote:Just you Seymour :P


    Well a random question in the middle of a thread is pretty impossible to know that for future reference.

    I assume the ranking is based on 2017 coaching results. I tried the link and it is useless and does not load. I am basing my comments on 2017 coaching results and moves, not players drafted in 2012...ect.

    That is the basis of this comment.
    Losing your team with a talented roster doesn't get you in the top 10 IMO. Overall Pete is better then that yes, but last year somewhere from 8-12 is about right IMO.


    Did you read "overall Pete is better than that"???

    That is giving credit for previous results and moves is it not??
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • Seymour wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Just you Seymour :P


    Well a random question in the middle of a thread is pretty impossible to know that for future reference.

    I assume the ranking is based on 2017 coaching results. I tried the link and it is useless and does not load. I am basing my comments on 2017 coaching results and moves, not players drafted in 2012...ect.

    That is the basis of this comment.
    Losing your team with a talented roster doesn't get you in the top 10 IMO. Overall Pete is better then that yes, but last year somewhere from 8-12 is about right IMO.


    Did you read "overall Pete is better than that"???

    That is giving credit for previous results and moves is it not??


    No one ranks coaches based on one year.

    Belichick went a decade between Super Bowls, including three-straight years without a playoff victory.

    Link loads for me on multiple devices. Not sure of the issue you're having, sorry.
    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nf ... nc/slide/4
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Just you Seymour :P


    Well a random question in the middle of a thread is pretty impossible to know that for future reference.

    I assume the ranking is based on 2017 coaching results. I tried the link and it is useless and does not load. I am basing my comments on 2017 coaching results and moves, not players drafted in 2012...ect.

    That is the basis of this comment.
    Losing your team with a talented roster doesn't get you in the top 10 IMO. Overall Pete is better then that yes, but last year somewhere from 8-12 is about right IMO.


    Did you read "overall Pete is better than that"???

    That is giving credit for previous results and moves is it not??


    No one ranks coaches based on one year.

    Belichick went a decade between Super Bowls, including three-straight years without a playoff victory.

    Link loads for me on multiple devices. Not sure of the issue you're having, sorry.
    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nf ... nc/slide/4


    Bologna. Then how does Doug Pederson go from #22 to #2 in one year?? :roll:

    Add blockers and different browsers stall this site to a crawl. I'm not turning them off for a useless opinion.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • Overall, it's not a bad list, though I think Carroll still belongs at the #2 spot (behind Belichick).

    1. Bill Belichick, Patriots

    2. Doug Pederson, Eagles - Too high, IMO; I would have Carroll, Payton, and Tomlin ahead of him.

    3. Mike Tomlin, Steelers - Carroll has the better playoff record.

    4. Pete Carroll, Seahawks

    5. Mike McCarthy, Packers

    6. Sean Payton, Saints

    7. Mike Zimmer, Vikings

    8. Andy Reid, Chiefs

    9. Dan Quinn, Falcons

    10. Ron Rivera, Panthers

    11. John Harbaugh, Ravens

    12. Sean McVay, Rams

    13. Jason Garrett, Cowboys

    14. Bill O'Brien, Texans

    15. Doug Marrone, Jaguars - Too low, should be ahead of Garrett and O'Brien

    16. Jon Gruden, Raiders - Too low, should be ahead of Garrett and O'Brien

    17. Marvin Lewis, Bengals

    18. Sean McDermott, Bills

    19. Anthony Lynn, Chargers - Seems a bit low, I would stick him at #13

    20. Kyle Shanahan, 49ers

    21. Adam Gase, Dolphins

    22. Jay Gruden, Redskins - I would rank him a few notches higher

    23. Todd Bowles, Jets

    24. Vance Joseph, Broncos

    25. Frank Reich, Colts

    26. Dirk Koetter, Buccaneers

    27. Steve Wilks, Arizona

    28. Matt Nagy, Bears

    29. Hue Jackson, Browns

    30. Pat Shurmur, Giants

    31. Mike Vrabel, Titans

    32. Matt Patricia, Lions
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:Just you Seymour :P


    Well a random question in the middle of a thread is pretty impossible to know that for future reference.

    I assume the ranking is based on 2017 coaching results. I tried the link and it is useless and does not load. I am basing my comments on 2017 coaching results and moves, not players drafted in 2012...ect.

    That is the basis of this comment.
    Losing your team with a talented roster doesn't get you in the top 10 IMO. Overall Pete is better then that yes, but last year somewhere from 8-12 is about right IMO.


    Did you read "overall Pete is better than that"???

    That is giving credit for previous results and moves is it not??


    No one ranks coaches based on one year.

    Belichick went a decade between Super Bowls, including three-straight years without a playoff victory.

    Link loads for me on multiple devices. Not sure of the issue you're having, sorry.
    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nf ... nc/slide/4


    Bologna. Then how does Doug Pederson go from #22 to #2 in one year?? :roll:

    Add blockers and different browsers stall this site to a crawl. I'm not turning them off for a useless opinion.


    To my knowledge, this site doesn't have any ads.

    I guess they are projecting a bit for Doug Pederson, having won a Super Bowl and having beaten Belichick head-to-head with Nick Foles at QB. They show career records for each of the coaches, so they are obviously looking at the totality.

    If it were based on ONLY one year, it wouldn't be a coaching ranking. That would just be a power ranking.
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • Not sure why I bother....slow day I suppose. No, it would NOT be a power ranking!! Coaches can underachieve and overachieve beyond their strength of roster.

    A coach absolutely does not "get 20 spots better" as a coach in 1 year....period!! They are weighting the rankings based on 2017 results and what they had to work with.....period. Bye now.
    Last edited by Seymour on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • Seymour wrote:Not sure why I bother....slow day I suppose. No, it would NOT be a power ranking!! Coaches can underachieve and overachieve beyond their strength of roster.


    If you can find a coaching ranking that considers only ONE solitary year for each coach, then more power to you. Maybe you can create your own such list for Bleacher Report.

    This is not one of "those" lists.
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • Seymour wrote:Not sure why I bother....slow day I suppose. No, it would NOT be a power ranking!! Coaches can underachieve and overachieve beyond their strength of roster.

    A coach absolutely does not "get 20 spots better" as a coach in 1 year....period!! They are weighting the rankings based on 2017 results and what they had to work with.....period. Bye now.


    It's funny how adamant you are about this . . . despite having admitted to not reading the list.

    Have a good one! :P
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • If you're still curious, here is Sporting News' explanation for Doug Pederon's #2 ranking:

    2. Doug Pederson, Eagles

    Last year: 22
    Record: 20-12, .625
    Playoffs: 3-0, 1.000

    Too soon? It's really not. Pederson's aggressive approach gave the Eagles their first Super Bowl, and he was able to do it with a backup quarterback in Nick Foles. Carson Wentz's return means the Eagles will be the NFC favorites again, and their social awareness as a team will continue to be in focus. Pederson will have this team ready to defend that title. This is worth the 20-spot jump, and then some. He's the best competition for Belichick.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nf ... nc/slide/2
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Not sure why I bother....slow day I suppose. No, it would NOT be a power ranking!! Coaches can underachieve and overachieve beyond their strength of roster.

    A coach absolutely does not "get 20 spots better" as a coach in 1 year....period!! They are weighting the rankings based on 2017 results and what they had to work with.....period. Bye now.


    It's funny how adamant you are about this . . . despite having admitted to not reading the list.

    Have a good one! :P


    Beating head against the wall...like always with you! You just posted the list, and I explained why...PETERSON shows this is obvious!!

    Then you confirm it....

    This is worth the 20-spot jump


    THIS....happens to be what he did in 2017! :roll: :roll:
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • Seymour wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Not sure why I bother....slow day I suppose. No, it would NOT be a power ranking!! Coaches can underachieve and overachieve beyond their strength of roster.

    A coach absolutely does not "get 20 spots better" as a coach in 1 year....period!! They are weighting the rankings based on 2017 results and what they had to work with.....period. Bye now.


    It's funny how adamant you are about this . . . despite having admitted to not reading the list.

    Have a good one! :P


    Beating head against the wall...like always with you! You just posted the list, and I explained why...PETERSON shows this is obvious!!


    And I explained to you (very delicately, I thought) that you are wrong. This list is clearly based on the totality, not just one year. The career records that are listed for each coach, the accolades of the past are mentioned, and they are also taking into account a future projection of what each coach is capable of going forward. That is what the typical coach ranking does; they look at the totality.

    Pederson's year was so spectacular, and his future so bright, that they were willing to overlook his skimpy resume and the potential risk that he is just a one-hit wonder.
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • Not totality! Gruden would NOT be 16.....and Peterson would NOT be 2 and Harbaugh would not be 1 ahead of McVay if this was strictly totality.

    In other words. This is a bullshit poll according to your definition.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4639
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


  • Seymour wrote:Not totality! Gruden would NOT be 16.....and Peterson would NOT be 2 and Harbaugh would not be 1 ahead of McVay if this was strictly totality.

    In other words. This is a bullshit poll according to your definition.


    Sigh, you're still arguing about a list (by which I mean the article, in full, with explanations) that you haven't read. :roll:

    They explain that they have Jon Gruden ranked low, despite his Super Bowl, because he hasn't coached in a decade.

    16. Jon Gruden, Raiders

    Last year: NR
    Record: 95-81, .540
    Playoffs: 5-4, .556

    Gruden is the hardest coach to rank. On one hand, we know he is a Super Bowl-winning coach who has four seasons with 10 wins or more to his credit. That Super Bowl, however, was in 2002; he hasn't coached since 2008. Will Gruden be enough to revive an Oakland franchise that underachieved in 2017? We'll compromise by putting him right in the middle of the list.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nf ... c/slide/16


    Totality means you consider everything. All good now?
    User avatar
    hawknation2018
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm


  • You guys are really making me laugh. No offense meant at that. One of you reminds me of someone at my work, but I won't say who!
    User avatar
    Vaclav44
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:53 pm
    Location: Ellensburg


  • You guys are really making me laugh. No offense meant at that. One of you reminds me of someone at my work, but I won't say who!
    User avatar
    Vaclav44
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:53 pm
    Location: Ellensburg




It is currently Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:42 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information