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Barnwell Ranks Seahawks' Offensive Supporting Cast #28

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  • Ouch... that's low. Keep in mind he excluded QB and OL in these considerations. Obviously we would be much higher taking Russ into account.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2404 ... apons-2018

    #24-#32 are a mush, there's a clear step up from #23 onwards. I guess he's right when he says Doug Baldwin is our only proven, healthy, consistent offensive weapon (and a damn good one at that). Most other teams at least have two good WRs, one great WR and a good RB, or better. I think if we can get at least one consistently good RB out of Carson, Penny, and Prosise and another WR to be good (probably Lockett) we will be fine.
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  • If Penny balls out and our line can actually block people for more than half a second, then the offense will be fine.

    But if it's another struggle year for the line, and our run game continues to stink like a dumpster fire in August? Then yeah, all we got is Doug, and he needs support.

    No more Jimmy, is Locket going to regain his quickness to stretch the defense? TE? Brandon Marshall any good any more?

    A LOT of question marks, so unfortunately as of now Barnwell is right. But luckily we don't play games in July.
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  • I think Lockett gets shortchanged by other people. Dude had a bad injury at the end of the year and was basically still recovering from it last year, but he was legit good before that.
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  • Agree with Sgt. There will be injuries to proven contributors and other previously unknown stars will rise to take their places. Tis the offseason though, so not much else to discuss, unfortunately.

    Cowboys fans on reddit pretty mad he ranked them #30. To be fair to Barnwell, he's not wrong about them having Zeke and little else as far as offensive skill players are concerned.
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  • Ed Dickson TE proven Vet.

    Brandon Marshall WR proven Vet, coming off injury but if his name was Adrian Peterson they would not blink about saying good things.


    Jaron Brown WR proven Vet, was in the shadow of the very good Arizona receiving group and still made a name for himself.



    Tyler Lockett proven Vet, was coming off a injury last year and still contributed, will be 100 percent now, showed flashes his Rookie year, should not be idly discounted.

    Carson, Prosise McKissic all have not seen the field as much as Lockett did his Rookie year so I can see a question mark there given our Line issues, but drafting a blocking TE and adding a FB to the offense is going to change that dynamic more as well. Guess the writer never thought of that also.
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  • It’s a quick and simple take, but he is not entirely wrong. Outside of Baldwin, no one has proven anything beyond serviceable. I mean there is hope and some potential of course, but until we actually see it, bottom tier seems appropriate.
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  • Yeah Chris I don't think your definition of proven is what Barnwell is going by. Guys like Cobb and Adams aren't amazing but they've shown to be considerably more productive than someone like Lockett. Dickson is a proven blocker but not much of a weapon. Even someone like Kyle Rudolph, who isn't great, is a tier above him.

    I'm with Coug in that Lockett, Brown, and Dickson have shown to be serviceable at this point, with Lockett flashing real upside. Marshall has been meh the past couple of seasons.

    It's crazy how big the gap is between us and a team like Philly who have a #1 in Jeffrey, a stud TE in Ertz, a good RB in Ajayi, and Agholor finally emerging at slot WR. I believe we could be neck and neck with them by the end of the season though! If Lockett stays healthy and an RB emerges and maybe Swoopes develops... A man can dream
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  • You don't need flash you need first downs, that's what guys like this forget. Who have we had that was flashy on offense since Pete was here. You can say Lynch but he wasn't flashy, he was just a tough SOB who gained yards and would not go down, had memorable runs due to that. Prior he was serviceable in Buffalo.

    If you want Dez Bryant maybe you should be rooting for Dallas, they seem to bring in Flash, it burns out fast but hey at least your eyes will have spots for a while.
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  • I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment that flash isn't necessary, but that's not what we're talking about. When it came to Lynch, he was a generational talent at the RB position. Flash or no, he was a truly special player for us our best skill position player since Largent. I'm sure if we had prime Lynch instead of our current RBs we'd be regarded as top 10 in this ranking. We also had both Tate and Baldwin, who are excellent receivers.

    I don't really get your comment about Dez, he was actually a great player before he started getting hurt. Also the list isn't about flashiest players. Adam Thielen is not a flashy player, but he's damn good at getting first downs and a big reason why the Vikes are top 5. The same can be said for Michael Thomas - he's not OBJ, but he knows how to get open and has excellent body control. The better the player, the more likely he is to get open and make it easier for us to convert first downs. The only guy we have who's shown thus far to be consistently great at that is Doug.
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  • Hard to disagree outside of Doug were mediocre and even Doug as a number 1 is middle of the pack as far as receivers go.
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  • adeltaY wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment that flash isn't necessary, but that's not what we're talking about. When it came to Lynch, he was a generational talent at the RB position. Flash or no, he was a truly special player for us our best skill position player since Largent. I'm sure if we had prime Lynch instead of our current RBs we'd be regarded as top 10 in this ranking. We also had both Tate and Baldwin, who are excellent receivers.

    I don't really get your comment about Dez, he was actually a great player before he started getting hurt. Also the list isn't about flashiest players. Adam Thielen is not a flashy player, but he's damn good at getting first downs and a big reason why the Vikes are top 5. The same can be said for Michael Thomas - he's not OBJ, but he knows how to get open and has excellent body control. The better the player, the more likely he is to get open and make it easier for us to convert first downs. The only guy we have who's shown thus far to be consistently great at that is Doug.



    We got Lynch for a swan song, he wasn't a once in a Generation player when we added him. The Mediots were calling him a problem and a bust actually.

    That why you can't take these ranking seriously, Marshall serviceable, he was hurt now healthy he doesn't have to be a all pro just a pro to be a great addition.
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  • getnasty wrote:Hard to disagree outside of Doug were mediocre and even Doug as a number 1 is middle of the pack as far as receivers go.


    He's close to 10 if not there IMO. OBJ, Julio, AB, Deandre, AJ are clearly better. He's somewhere in the tier with Keenan, DT, Michael Thomas, Larry (incredible), Mike Evans, Thielen, Marvin, TY, and Davante. Probably forgetting some guys.
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  • seahawks are going to be great this season. it's great to see everybody in the big media discounting this team. they're going to take the league by surprise. sometime between game 8 and game 12, it will be obvious that the seahawks are going to the divisional round of the playoffs, and beyond.

    this offense (and field goal unit) should score around 27+ ppg. with the defense and punt return squad adding another 3+ ppg, the team average will be over 30ppg this year. with the defense holding people to 17ppg, expect a lot of big wins.
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  • I understand that he is only attempting to evaluate the skills positions but you just can’t do that in a vacuum. Our running backs wouldn’t all be constantly injured if they weren’t lining up behind the worst offensive line in modern football history. Now we get to see if our new OL coach can make chicken salad from chicken poop and rotten carcasses. If Solari can pull off an iron chef our offense will look a hole lot better this season because our backs won’t have to make guys miss before getting the hand offs.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:I understand that he is only attempting to evaluate the skills positions but you just can’t do that in a vacuum. Our running backs wouldn’t all be constantly injured if they weren’t lining up behind the worst offensive line in modern football history. Now we get to see if our new OL coach can make chicken salad from chicken poop and rotten carcasses. If Solari can pull off an iron chef our offense will look a hole lot better this season because our backs won’t have to make guys miss before getting the hand offs.


    I can see the argument that a QB that gets hit more is more likely to get injured (see Andrew Luck and his bad o line and him getting hit more than anybody and therefore more likely to get injured), but RBs are getting hit on every touch regardless, so I don’t think we can blame the Hawks RBs getting injured on poor line play (and particularly for a guy like Prosise, who IRC fell because he couldn’t stay healthy in college either). If anything I think an atrocious o-line might limit RB injuries, as you don’t have to worry about the non-contact soft tissue pulls and tears that can happen on longer runs. :lol:
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  • I tend to think his analysis was based on the last few years downward trend. Using that criteria, he has probably ranked them about right. However, a new o line coach, a new offensive coordinator, added experience on the line combined with all players learning one position, the addition of pieces to the running game in blockers at TE and FB, not to mention upgraded talent at the RB position will all contribute to the offense being not only better than last year but significantly better than this ranking. National pundits will be asking, “who are these guys?”

    I’m excited for the development of this offense. I believe they will be good. Probably not great but certainly good.
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  • HawkGA wrote:I think Lockett gets shortchanged by other people. Dude had a bad injury at the end of the year and was basically still recovering from it last year, but he was legit good before that.


    He's not being shortchanged, dude had a major leg injury that caused him to lose a step last year...........Tyler was certainly not the lightning fast deep threat he was his rookie year.

    So the criticism is valid. Reports are that type of injury takes a full year to recover, so hopefully he's back to his rookie top speed this year, or close.

    Without Richardson we desperately need Tyler to regain his form, or else it won't matter if Penny and the run game is better, because teams will just stack the box with no deep threats.
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  • mrblitz wrote:seahawks are going to be great this season. it's great to see everybody in the big media discounting this team. they're going to take the league by surprise. sometime between game 8 and game 12, it will be obvious that the seahawks are going to the divisional round of the playoffs, and beyond.

    this offense (and field goal unit) should score around 27+ ppg. with the defense and punt return squad adding another 3+ ppg, the team average will be over 30ppg this year. with the defense holding people to 17ppg, expect a lot of big wins.


    I want whatever it is you are smoking. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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  • chris98251 wrote:Ed Dickson TE proven Vet.


    He's proven he's a decent blocker and a JAG everywhere else.

    chris98251 wrote:Brandon Marshall WR proven Vet, coming off injury but if his name was Adrian Peterson they would not blink about saying good things.


    Or they would say AD was washed up (because he is) like Marshall (because he is)

    Marshall probably doesn't even make the 53 in all honesty.

    chris98251 wrote:Jaron Brown WR proven Vet, was in the shadow of the very good Arizona receiving group and still made a name for himself.


    What? When did Jaron Brown make a name for himself? Was it that amazing 477 yard season a year ago when the Cardinals couldn't come up with a WR worth a crap to play oppo Fitz? Or was it the previous career high of 229 yards that put him on the map?

    chris98251 wrote:Tyler Lockett proven Vet, was coming off a injury last year and still contributed, will be 100 percent now, showed flashes his Rookie year, should not be idly discounted.


    Again - he hasn't proven anything. I don't understand what "proven vet" even means in the manner you are throwing it around. I like Lockett a lot for what he is (a nice #3 and a quality KR/PR when healthy) but this isn't someone the media is blatantly ignoring either. He's a JAG. All of these guys mentioned are marginal players at best ------ hence the 28th overall ranking by Barnwell.

    chris98251 wrote:Carson, Prosise McKissic all have not seen the field as much as Lockett did his Rookie year so I can see a question mark there given our Line issues, but drafting a blocking TE and adding a FB to the offense is going to change that dynamic more as well. Guess the writer never thought of that also.


    Yeah Barnwell is out of his mind not including a guy that would go on IR for grabbing the remote in his house or the 7th round pick coming off of a broken ankle/foot or the UDFA with less than 500 yards of offense so far.

    chris98251 wrote:You don't need flash you need first downs, that's what guys like this forget. Who have we had that was flashy on offense since Pete was here. You can say Lynch but he wasn't flashy, he was just a tough SOB who gained yards and would not go down, had memorable runs due to that. Prior he was serviceable in Buffalo.


    Having the best defense of this decade and one of the best defenses of all-time + Lynch had more to do with our prior success than having an offense filled with a lack of flash. We no longer have that defense. We have nothing close to that running game. Going "yeah well Jermaine Kearse wasn't flashy!!" completely misses the point.

    If all of these players mentioned were Rams, Cardinals or 49ers .. would your words be as glowing?
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  • Every media idiot in the world has their own rankings and projections, that doesn't mean they know what the heck they are talking about, just that they have their "opinions" and want to get clicks on their articles so they can show their importance to whoever pays them. It's all a bucket of crap designed to create controversy at the expense of actual analysis. For me personally, I prefer to keep a positive frame of mind about the team I route for rather than read all of the negative BS that is prevalent at this time of year. Nobody knows the future but many seem to want to publish their opinions, which are often founded in a deep bias for "their" teams & players and is often negative to all other teams & players in their efforts to show their superior (and very bias) knowledge to the masses.

    Anyway, Go Hawks! It's time to show these a-holes that the Seahawks are not dead and buried but still a very viable contender in the NFL and will be for years to come. I'm looking forward to an interesting and potentially great season.
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  • mrblitz wrote:seahawks are going to be great this season. it's great to see everybody in the big media discounting this team. they're going to take the league by surprise. sometime between game 8 and game 12, it will be obvious that the seahawks are going to the divisional round of the playoffs, and beyond.

    this offense (and field goal unit) should score around 27+ ppg. with the defense and punt return squad adding another 3+ ppg, the team average will be over 30ppg this year. with the defense holding people to 17ppg, expect a lot of big wins.


    Defense and ST going to score 7 TDs?
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  • Good points. I stand corrected.
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  • To me Barnwell's ranking is quite a bit low.

    There seems to be a discounting by Barnwell of any offseason move except those where a supposed star player like Graham or even Richardson has left in FA. We know that graham was largely ineffective, except in the redzone last year, for most of his time here. He could not run block or even pass block with any effectiveness, he never fit in Seattle's O schemes or was very poorly used by the OC. Richardson spent a great deal of time nicked up while here and while fast did not always show up for every game. The writer as well discounts the ability of the running game to even improve to a median level which would make an extraordinary improvement. I'd fairly rank the team in the mid range rather than 28th. Time will tell b/c if the OLine comes together and if the running game gets materially better the O could even move up sharply from a14-18 range

    Essentially the article pans the Seahawks offseason and ignores the changes made by the team to improve. some of the rankings are humorous.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • Looks pretty fair. I don't see many teams ahead of us that I think arent deserving of being there.

    I kind of like our TE group. Dickson, Vannett, Dissly, and Swoopes give us a little of everything, but in the context of an "arsenal", I can see why Barnwell wouldn't grade them super high. I really wish we had a Kelce or Ertz type, but hopefully Vannett or Swoopes take a step up as a receiver and help stretch some defenses.

    I just don't see what everyone else is seeing in Lockett. Even considering that he had been injured a year prior, I thought his performance last year was extremely discouraging. I've nearly written him off. I'd love to be wrong, but I think this team is going to badly regret not making a bigger effort to keep Paul Richardson, who I believe made some very underrated contributions on this team. I'm a big believer in Darboh, but I can't pretend I'm super comfortable with the WRs we trot out there after Baldwin.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Jaron Brown WR proven Vet


    :187734:

    By your definition, there must be a LOT of "proven vets" at WR in the league. Like every team must have at least 3-4 of them.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Ed Dickson TE proven Vet.


    He's proven he's a decent blocker and a JAG everywhere else.

    chris98251 wrote:Brandon Marshall WR proven Vet, coming off injury but if his name was Adrian Peterson they would not blink about saying good things.


    Or they would say AD was washed up (because he is) like Marshall (because he is)

    Marshall probably doesn't even make the 53 in all honesty.

    chris98251 wrote:Jaron Brown WR proven Vet, was in the shadow of the very good Arizona receiving group and still made a name for himself.


    What? When did Jaron Brown make a name for himself? Was it that amazing 477 yard season a year ago when the Cardinals couldn't come up with a WR worth a crap to play oppo Fitz? Or was it the previous career high of 229 yards that put him on the map?

    chris98251 wrote:Tyler Lockett proven Vet, was coming off a injury last year and still contributed, will be 100 percent now, showed flashes his Rookie year, should not be idly discounted.


    Again - he hasn't proven anything. I don't understand what "proven vet" even means in the manner you are throwing it around. I like Lockett a lot for what he is (a nice #3 and a quality KR/PR when healthy) but this isn't someone the media is blatantly ignoring either. He's a JAG. All of these guys mentioned are marginal players at best ------ hence the 28th overall ranking by Barnwell.

    chris98251 wrote:Carson, Prosise McKissic all have not seen the field as much as Lockett did his Rookie year so I can see a question mark there given our Line issues, but drafting a blocking TE and adding a FB to the offense is going to change that dynamic more as well. Guess the writer never thought of that also.


    Yeah Barnwell is out of his mind not including a guy that would go on IR for grabbing the remote in his house or the 7th round pick coming off of a broken ankle/foot or the UDFA with less than 500 yards of offense so far.

    chris98251 wrote:You don't need flash you need first downs, that's what guys like this forget. Who have we had that was flashy on offense since Pete was here. You can say Lynch but he wasn't flashy, he was just a tough SOB who gained yards and would not go down, had memorable runs due to that. Prior he was serviceable in Buffalo.


    Having the best defense of this decade and one of the best defenses of all-time + Lynch had more to do with our prior success than having an offense filled with a lack of flash. We no longer have that defense. We have nothing close to that running game. Going "yeah well Jermaine Kearse wasn't flashy!!" completely misses the point.

    If all of these players mentioned were Rams, Cardinals or 49ers .. would your words be as glowing?


    If every one is just a guy then we should be a lot higher then 28th, it means we have a guy that is at least average.

    28th means we don't have a average guy in almost every position.
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  • Rat wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Jaron Brown WR proven Vet


    :187734:

    By your definition, there must be a LOT of "proven vets" at WR in the league. Like every team must have at least 3-4 of them.


    They have proved then can play and are at least avergae Joes, 28th Ranked to me means you don't even have that.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Jaron Brown WR proven Vet


    :187734:

    By your definition, there must be a LOT of "proven vets" at WR in the league. Like every team must have at least 3-4 of them.


    They have proved then can play and are at least avergae Joes, 28th Ranked to me means you don't even have that.


    He was only rating on starting 3 WRs, TE, and RB. Quite a few teams have at least two above average players out of that group of five and we only have Doug. For example, AZ pretty much only has Fitz and DJ but that's more than what we have so they're ahead of us. It's possible we actually have a better supporting cast than they do, especially our WR depth, and we might be able to compare at RB depth-wise. I doubt we have a DJ-caliber RB though.
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  • We may have depth but we only have one proven starter. It looks to me as if Barny’s on the money with his list.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Jaron Brown WR proven Vet


    :187734:

    By your definition, there must be a LOT of "proven vets" at WR in the league. Like every team must have at least 3-4 of them.


    They have proved then can play and are at least avergae Joes, 28th Ranked to me means you don't even have that.


    28th means you have below average skill position players........and right now other than Doug and a 80% Tyler Locket, we have no above average proven skill position players on offense.

    That's what Barnwell is measuring.

    TE: Ed Dickson and a 5th round rookie with 2 college TD's.
    RB: A stable of oft injured RB's and a rookie
    WR: Baldwin, Locket and 2-3 4th or 5th WR's on the depth chart

    So no, Barnwell is spot on. Doesn't mean if Penny doesn't come in and ball out and we get some production from the TE and other WR positions other than Baldwin that this doesn't improve. But as of now? Looks kinda bleak at the skill positions.
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