QB Throwaways

Recon_Hawk":14penabv said:

A lot of that has to do with the style that Rusell plays. Most QBs can't break the pocket like RW and find secondary throwing options or pick up yards with his feet, so for those QBs they are forcing the ball into tighter coverage leading to incomplete passes, where Russ can keep the play alive, make a good throw or throw the ball away.

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Hawk1217":7zr1kif4 said:

Recon_Hawk":7zr1kif4 said:

A lot of that has to do with the style that Rusell plays. Most QBs can't break the pocket like RW and find secondary throwing options or pick up yards with his feet, so for those QBs they are forcing the ball into tighter coverage leading to incomplete passes, where Russ can keep the play alive, make a good throw or throw the ball away.

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Most QBs would have more sacks and more Ints behind this oline.

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adeltaY":1tvpzj21 said:

Ben's style of play shifted significantly to that of a more cerebral pocket passer after the Arians to Haley transition. I think we could see something like that for Wilson, though I think he should be let loose more often than Ben as he has been healthier up to this point in his career. The quality of pass protection Ben has these day is much better as well as the Steelers transitioned from defensive-led to offensive-led and invested more in their line and of course their skill position players. It'll be interesting to see if that happens with the Seahawks, though I imagine it would be after Pete Carroll retires.

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Spin Doctor":1c132c19 said:

Hawk1217":1c132c19 said:

Recon_Hawk":1c132c19 said:

A lot of that has to do with the style that Rusell plays. Most QBs can't break the pocket like RW and find secondary throwing options or pick up yards with his feet, so for those QBs they are forcing the ball into tighter coverage leading to incomplete passes, where Russ can keep the play alive, make a good throw or throw the ball away.

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Most QBs would have more sacks and more Ints behind this oline.

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I highly doubt that most QB's would have more sacks behind this offensive line. Russell Wilson is great at turning what looks like sunk plays into big plays, but we also must understand that this can comes with draw backs. Wilson has consistently held the ball longer than most QB's through out his career. There are some years where traditional QB's such as Brady get the ball out of their hands a second or so quicker than Wilson does. This tendency to take gamble on his abilities rather than take the safe play leads to more sacks and pressures.

Another thing that must be noted is his poor pocket presence. A common thread in Wilson's career is a weak spot in setting up blockers, and making subtle movements that help blockers deflect. Wilson much prefers an open field to the pocket. His default is to step back, rather than step up in the pocket ( staying within the hashmarks is considered being in the pocket). This style works for him because of his elusiveness, burst, and agility. He may not be the fastest guy in the world (though he is still VERY fast) but he gets up to speed very quickly, and can change directions like the great Berry Sanders could. This style results in many defenders looking stupid, but it also leads to more sacks than normal.

I think the guy I would compare Wilson to is Ben Roethlisberger in these respects. Roethlisberger likes living on the edge much like Wilson does (though he does it in a different way). He is very hard to take down, and this allows him to hold onto the ball longer than most QB's. Big risk, big reward. It doesn't matter how good his line is at blocking, the guy still finds ways to be sacked. Most of his seasons he racks up 30-40 sacks, and once even 50. The style that these QB's play lends itself to being hit, and sacked more than other QBs.

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Spin Doctor":25khlh4v said:

adeltaY":25khlh4v said:

Ben's style of play shifted significantly to that of a more cerebral pocket passer after the Arians to Haley transition. I think we could see something like that for Wilson, though I think he should be let loose more often than Ben as he has been healthier up to this point in his career. The quality of pass protection Ben has these day is much better as well as the Steelers transitioned from defensive-led to offensive-led and invested more in their line and of course their skill position players. It'll be interesting to see if that happens with the Seahawks, though I imagine it would be after Pete Carroll retires.

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Yes, Ben's style is much different now. He has really transitioned as a player, though I think age and injuries played a big part in the necessity of such a switch. While still hard to take down, I do not think he is capable of recreating some of the feats from his earlier years. He relies more on timing, pre-snap checks, and pocket manipulation these days. I think Russ needs to start transitioning to this style soon, he is getting up to his 30s. I think Ben is a great career path to emulate, though I think there is something to Russ letting lose a little bit more than Ben does currently.

I also think line play looks better for the Steelers because of Roethlisbergers style -- I'm not necessarily sold on it being because of better line play. He's had some very solid units over the years. Roethlisberger simply gets rid of the ball much quicker, and plays a more traditional style with some improv sprinkled in. The offense also helps as you mentioned.

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SoulfishHawk":394ifzkn said:

Good point. I think most of us can agree on one thing, seeing something DIFFERENT from the Offense would be nice. Hopefully that's exactly what we will get.

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Hawk1217":1bunqllq said:

Spin Doctor":1bunqllq said:

adeltaY":1bunqllq said:

Ben's style of play shifted significantly to that of a more cerebral pocket passer after the Arians to Haley transition. I think we could see something like that for Wilson, though I think he should be let loose more often than Ben as he has been healthier up to this point in his career. The quality of pass protection Ben has these day is much better as well as the Steelers transitioned from defensive-led to offensive-led and invested more in their line and of course their skill position players. It'll be interesting to see if that happens with the Seahawks, though I imagine it would be after Pete Carroll retires.

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Yes, Ben's style is much different now. He has really transitioned as a player, though I think age and injuries played a big part in the necessity of such a switch. While still hard to take down, I do not think he is capable of recreating some of the feats from his earlier years. He relies more on timing, pre-snap checks, and pocket manipulation these days. I think Russ needs to start transitioning to this style soon, he is getting up to his 30s. I think Ben is a great career path to emulate, though I think there is something to Russ letting lose a little bit more than Ben does currently.

I also think line play looks better for the Steelers because of Roethlisbergers style -- I'm not necessarily sold on it being because of better line play. He's had some very solid units over the years. Roethlisberger simply gets rid of the ball much quicker, and plays a more traditional style with some improv sprinkled in. The offense also helps as you mentioned.

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I rest my case, research-proven again.

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Spin Doctor":3r9xrs2l said:

Hawk1217":3r9xrs2l said:

Spin Doctor":3r9xrs2l said:

adeltaY":3r9xrs2l said:

Ben's style of play shifted significantly to that of a more cerebral pocket passer after the Arians to Haley transition. I think we could see something like that for Wilson, though I think he should be let loose more often than Ben as he has been healthier up to this point in his career. The quality of pass protection Ben has these day is much better as well as the Steelers transitioned from defensive-led to offensive-led and invested more in their line and of course their skill position players. It'll be interesting to see if that happens with the Seahawks, though I imagine it would be after Pete Carroll retires.

Click to expand...

Yes, Ben's style is much different now. He has really transitioned as a player, though I think age and injuries played a big part in the necessity of such a switch. While still hard to take down, I do not think he is capable of recreating some of the feats from his earlier years. He relies more on timing, pre-snap checks, and pocket manipulation these days. I think Russ needs to start transitioning to this style soon, he is getting up to his 30s. I think Ben is a great career path to emulate, though I think there is something to Russ letting lose a little bit more than Ben does currently.

I also think line play looks better for the Steelers because of Roethlisbergers style -- I'm not necessarily sold on it being because of better line play. He's had some very solid units over the years. Roethlisberger simply gets rid of the ball much quicker, and plays a more traditional style with some improv sprinkled in. The offense also helps as you mentioned.

Click to expand...

I rest my case, research-proven again.

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Saying "research-proven" does not make my assertions any less true. In fact, you're attacking my viewpoint on the matter with a single shred of evidence. Saying "research proven" is no argument at all, in fact it is a logical fallacy. You're attacking an argument saying "I've done the research" without showing a shred of said research, and deferring to research that may or may not exist.

I guess this is the Anthony that we all know and love.

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Hawk1217":dmujkhsn said:

Spin Doctor":dmujkhsn said:

Hawk1217":dmujkhsn said:

Spin Doctor":dmujkhsn said:

Yes, Ben's style is much different now. He has really transitioned as a player, though I think age and injuries played a big part in the necessity of such a switch. While still hard to take down, I do not think he is capable of recreating some of the feats from his earlier years. He relies more on timing, pre-snap checks, and pocket manipulation these days. I think Russ needs to start transitioning to this style soon, he is getting up to his 30s. I think Ben is a great career path to emulate, though I think there is something to Russ letting lose a little bit more than Ben does currently.

I also think line play looks better for the Steelers because of Roethlisbergers style -- I'm not necessarily sold on it being because of better line play. He's had some very solid units over the years. Roethlisberger simply gets rid of the ball much quicker, and plays a more traditional style with some improv sprinkled in. The offense also helps as you mentioned.

Click to expand...

I rest my case, research-proven again.

Click to expand...

Saying "research-proven" does not make my assertions any less true. In fact, you're attacking my viewpoint on the matter with a single shred of evidence. Saying "research proven" is no argument at all, in fact it is a logical fallacy. You're attacking an argument saying "I've done the research" without showing a shred of said research, and deferring to research that may or may not exist.

I guess this is the Anthony that we all know and love.

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LOL you really did not get what I was getting at, that's okay, that says a lot.

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Seafan":mjj7lnua said:

There were too many plays that were throwaways and I blame Bev more than Russ. The Hawks suck at the check down throw even though with Carson, Davis, Prosise, McKissic, and Madden they had the talent to be excellent at it.

Schott has been working with RW on having a wider base so he's ready to throw it for a completion instead of away.

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