FG Fanpost: Russell Wilson's Six Sacks
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TreeRon
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Roy Schreider (Hill St Blues)
ivotuk
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I think Russell had a lot to do with those 6 sacks. The offensive line played decent, actually, they played good considering the 2 elite pass rushers Denver has.
But I think Russell, despite the protection he was afforded during the preseason, fell back in to old habits created during the Tom Cable era, and let his OLine down. And once he got hit, it was harder to break out of the old habits.
He will do better in Chicago.
But I think Russell, despite the protection he was afforded during the preseason, fell back in to old habits created during the Tom Cable era, and let his OLine down. And once he got hit, it was harder to break out of the old habits.
He will do better in Chicago.
Spin Doctor
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What is disconcerting is that in most of those instances he had wide receiver that was wide open, in one case he was looking right at them. This is one of the reasons why I keep harping on this game. You can't hold the ball for so long, and expect anything good to come out of it. He had opportunities, and either he didn't see them or he just ignored them, and decided to play hero ball.
Seymour
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Wilson is surely to blame and several, but those still pics do not tell all. For instance, the sideline comeback routes where a receiver "looks" open by 2 yards is not as open is it appears since the defender can close that gap by the time the ball gets there. That is how many pic 6's happen. That is just one instance of the many that cannot tell the real story if a guy is really open by our "no turnovers" standard.
LickMyNuts
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RW doesn't do well with pressure in his face. He can't see the receivers and his natural inclination is to bail outside rather than stepping up through the traffic. He especially struggles when the guard gets pushed back into his face.
He needs to shoot passed the traffic and get rid of the ball or run.
With that said Denver has the ability to pressure any QB with there defensive line. Something we are sorely lacking.
He needs to shoot passed the traffic and get rid of the ball or run.
With that said Denver has the ability to pressure any QB with there defensive line. Something we are sorely lacking.
TreeRon
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Seymour
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HawkNuts":2xtmhsfx said:
Oh good god!! Wilson is one, if not the best ranked QB under pressure in the NFL. Why do people pop off about stuff they have no clue about??
Top 5 every year in the league overall 2012-2016 ranked #1.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/6/2...wilson-under-pressure-dvoa-football-outsiders
adeltaY
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Seymour":2lmtohtb said:
Indeed, but that's not true for crossing routes in man coverage when the receiver has a step - with proper ball placement that should always be a safe completion.
ivotuk
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TreeRon":21bh7h4y said:
And there is that. Von Miller (#2 Overall pick) and Bradley Chubb (#5 Overall pick) are 2 of the best. It's almost unfair that they have both of them.
"Von Miller’s reaction said it all.
Filming himself on Instagram from his room at the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Las Vegas, the Broncos’ all-pro linebacker unleashed a scream of joy as his team’s selection of North Carolina State edge rusher Bradley Chubb was announced on television.
“We got Bradley Chubb!” Miller yelled as Chubb highlights rolled behind him. “He cold!”
chris98251
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Come back routes as I call them or curls should always have the receiver coming to the ball and not waiting on it, everything else pretty much is running away from a defender, one thing about crossing patterns you have to be aware of the space gap between the cover guy and the next slot of coverage so he doesn't step into the passing lane.
mikeak
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ivotuk":2z1d01r6 said:
Yes but the Giants have a RB now....lol idiots with a team in shambles they didn’t draft Chubb. And yes I am looking at it with NC State homer eyes that also happens to be right
Scorpion05
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I read this earlier, and as some pointed out in the comments...still shots at 2.5 seconds is a narrow way to analyze a Qb when he’s attempting to go to his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th read. On several of those plays Wilson doesn’t even get a chance to go through his progressions then check down.
Even the article admits Wilson could have made a completion, but would have gotten hit right after(and likely risk injury). Peter King himself said he watched it and Wilson had no chance.
Whatever. At this point, those with an axe to grind to place most of the blame on Russell will see what they want. Those who won’t even acknowledge that Russ missed a couple throws(like EVERY QB) will see what they want. And fair minded, reasonable folks will see that Wilson had a WHOLE LOT to overcome while trying to keep us in the game. We face several tough defenses this year, so we should all prepare ourselves for the anti-Russ shitstorm
Even the article admits Wilson could have made a completion, but would have gotten hit right after(and likely risk injury). Peter King himself said he watched it and Wilson had no chance.
Whatever. At this point, those with an axe to grind to place most of the blame on Russell will see what they want. Those who won’t even acknowledge that Russ missed a couple throws(like EVERY QB) will see what they want. And fair minded, reasonable folks will see that Wilson had a WHOLE LOT to overcome while trying to keep us in the game. We face several tough defenses this year, so we should all prepare ourselves for the anti-Russ shitstorm
Seafan
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TreeRon":997obael said:
Jaws, not Hill Street. You are thinking of Daniel J. Travanti. Roy Scheider not Schreider.
Sure, there are a few posters actively hating on Russ but it's a very small minority. I think you're missing the reason why a large number of fair minded, reasonable folks may point out that Russ "could have played better" on Sunday to quote Pete Carroll. The entire offense is viewed through the lens of the QB, so analyzing QB play is the first step in analyzing the rest of the offense.Scorpion05":3hflmhft said:
For example, Tyler Lockett had a great TD catch but besides that only caught 2 passes for 8 yards, despite playing on every offensive snap but one. Jaron Brown was in on over half of the snaps and had one catch for 7 yards. Brandon Marshall had 3 catches on 37 snaps. However, the numbers alone tell an incomplete story without knowing how the rest of the offense was functioning. If Russ was missing open receivers then that is a case for optimism about the group going forwards as they continue to build chemistry.
You could view the article in the OP as an attack on Russ if you were so inclined or you could also view it as a defense of the much maligned OL. In my view knowing that Russ didn't get the ball out quickly enough against a good pass rush in Denver is an important first step to better managing another good pass rush on Monday night in Chicago. I agree that still photos can be misleading but that particular conclusion is obvious from watching the game film.
UK_Seahawk
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Seafan":11yygsts said:
I cant work out if we need a bigger boat or if we need to careful out there.
Palmegranite
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The CLink is teamin' with Great Whites!!!
Popeyejones
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Nice article.
The link to the PFR article at the end is particularly useful too -- it shows that depending on how you measure the most (or one of the most) stable QB metrics when a QB changes teams is their sack rate.
It's the perfect desgin to show that QB sacks have MUCH, MUCH more to do with quarterbacks (and less to do with the offensive line) than we usually attribute them to.
To make this point I've always used Peyton Manning anecdotally (the Colts went from having a "good" pass blocking o-line to a "bad" pass-blocking o-line the day Manning left, and the Broncos went from having a "bad" pass blocking o-line to a "good" one the day Manning came), but that it actually bares out beyond the anecdote is super neat. (9ers fans do the same nonsense when repeatedly claiming the O-line's pass blocking improved later in the year when Garoppolo came in -- the argument is nonsense, Garoppolo is just good at not taking sacks and Hoyer and Beathard are bad at it).
The link to the PFR article at the end is particularly useful too -- it shows that depending on how you measure the most (or one of the most) stable QB metrics when a QB changes teams is their sack rate.
It's the perfect desgin to show that QB sacks have MUCH, MUCH more to do with quarterbacks (and less to do with the offensive line) than we usually attribute them to.
To make this point I've always used Peyton Manning anecdotally (the Colts went from having a "good" pass blocking o-line to a "bad" pass-blocking o-line the day Manning left, and the Broncos went from having a "bad" pass blocking o-line to a "good" one the day Manning came), but that it actually bares out beyond the anecdote is super neat. (9ers fans do the same nonsense when repeatedly claiming the O-line's pass blocking improved later in the year when Garoppolo came in -- the argument is nonsense, Garoppolo is just good at not taking sacks and Hoyer and Beathard are bad at it).
Popeyejones":cwfwg50g said:
I agree. If you look at Brady -- the pundits always say he has a very good offensive line but you rarely seem them ranked as best in the league -- Some of them win Pro-Bowl selections but I often think it is more owed to Brady making them look good too -- at the very least a combination of Brady and their above avg play.
The poll shows that most people blamed RW for the sacks too and so I don't think it's a RW-haters thing. I think Russell does some amazing things and he is best with a power running game so I'm not blaming Russell for everything or hating on him. I do think he can play much better than he did on Sunday when it comes to making better decisions in the pocket. My first reaction after the game was that the OL played decent. Von Miller didn't even come close to a sack for most of the first half, so there is promise there going forward I think.
Z.
Scorpion05
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AgentDib":2rudedjm said:
I don’t see the article as an “attack” necessarily. Which is why I said both sides will see what they want to see.
QB play does play a role in sacks. But I’m not going to join the chorus of those who say the QB is mainly responsible. It can be, but with Russ I do not believe that has been the case in the last 3 years. And I guess that’s where I draw the line, I believe people are revising history.
For all the talk of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers, I would truly encourage people to go watch their games. When you have some free time, watch those games over the years and tell me they haven’t gotten excellent protection. There’s a reason elite O-lineman get paid like it. Like I said in a previous thread we can’t have it both ways. We can’t say Pocic needs to beef up, Brown & Ifedi needs to get better, yet Russell is mostly responsible for the sacks. It makes no sense
I’d also use those “Enemy fan forums” to our advantage. I remember when Patriots fans a couple years ago were crying about the O-line, until it improved. And Packers fans crying about the O-line after some injuries. And Steelers fans frustrated by Big Ben because he’ll have all day to relax in the pocket, but still throw 5 ints. Yes Russ can show more pocket awareness, pickup more blitzes, etc. But this trend towards underselling how poor our O-line play is, and putting it mainly on our QB is sad to me. Manning, Brady, Big Ben, and Rodgers have had great O-lines for much of their careers. And then occasionally, great defenses like ours years ago made their O-line and others look like chumps, and they struggled for it.
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