Bevell not to blame?

nwHawk

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Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).
 

Spin Doctor

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nwHawk":1gq1uygy said:
Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).
If you're an offensive coordinator, you're trying to work around our teams limitations, and the other teams limitations on defense. Our line was clearly was the weak spot. Despite this we continued to run long developing plays such as deep crossing routes. There was no real checkdown options in many cases. That is now how you mask your teams major deficiency, the offensive line. If you want to slow down the pass rush you start running misdirection plays such as screens, delayed draws and counters. Furthermore you HAVE to run plays that are designed to get the ball out of your hands quickly like slants, hooks, outs, and comebacks.

The Seahawks have always ignored this common sense wisdom and have ran go routes, deep post routes, fades, and corners. Plays that take a long time to develop and are inherently low percentage plays.
 

northseahawk

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Wilson is the common denominator. He makes the other 10 guys plus the coaches look bad.
 

mistaowen

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Bevell is an average to below average OC who did what Pete asked. When you have a guy like Marshawn getting positive yards even when hit in the backfield, your offense will do good things. He also had one of the most unique QBs in the NFL who took it by storm with crazy heroics which weren’t scripted at all. When teams learned how to keep Russ in the pocket and marshawn was done, we saw what happens. Schotty is just Bevell in khaki pants.
 
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nwHawk

nwHawk

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I'm not seeing Russ go throw progressions at any point - this season or last!
 

adeltaY

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He does lock on to his first read too often, but that's different from flat out not going through your progressions
 

SkyHawks16

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northseahawk":bt9qphz3 said:
Wilson is the common denominator. He makes the other 10 guys plus the coaches look bad.
When Wilson is in control, you could the difference in the offense. This is all on Pete and how he wants the offense to work.
 

bbsplitter

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nwHawk":cngil61d said:
I'm not seeing Russ go throw progressions at any point - this season or last!

Normally I stay away from calling out individual posters - but this is categorically incorrect. There are 20+ of us on this board that could sit with you and watch the all-22 and show you the multiple check downs and reads Wilson does in each game, including this one. On multiple of his sacks he had been through each progression and none of them were open, hence the sacks.
 

sdog1981

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It has always been Cables fault. He sucked the life out of this team. At this point, I feel that your team's offensive line coach is the most important hire your team makes. Can we beg Howard Mudd to come out of retirement? He lives here in Seattle. It will take Solari three years to fix Cables mess. The Patriots went two seasons without Scarnecchia as their Oline coach before they fired the dude that replaced him and begged for him to come back.
 

SeahawksCanuck

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mistaowen":13pdya0s said:
Bevell is an average to below average OC who did what Pete asked. When you have a guy like Marshawn getting positive yards even when hit in the backfield, your offense will do good things. He also had one of the most unique QBs in the NFL who took it by storm with crazy heroics which weren’t scripted at all. When teams learned how to keep Russ in the pocket and marshawn was done, we saw what happens. Schotty is just Bevell in khaki pants.
Well said. I don't think Bevell was a very creative play-caller or anything (I doubt Pete would have allowed this anyways), and the fact he didn't get hired this year despite having a SuperBowl under his belt tells you something. But there are deeper problems that have exposed themselves.

I'd also add that in addition to Lynch, we actually had a half-decent (albeit overpaid) run-blocking o-line back then (plus a dual-threat tight-end).

Wilson just doesn't look the same, and I agree it's likely that defenses have figured him out. I also suspect years of poor offensive lines have hurt his development in terms of pocket presence. He managed to out-last the other read-option style quarterbacks since he actually has a good arm and can turn scrambles into huge plays instead of just quarterback rushes. He still has some nice plays, but just doesn't seem to have that same "magic" anymore.
 

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Spin Doctor":1dl4h15i said:
nwHawk":1dl4h15i said:
Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).
If you're an offensive coordinator, you're trying to work around our teams limitations, and the other teams limitations on defense. Our line was clearly was the weak spot. Despite this we continued to run long developing plays such as deep crossing routes. There was no real checkdown options in many cases. That is now how you mask your teams major deficiency, the offensive line. If you want to slow down the pass rush you start running misdirection plays such as screens, delayed draws and counters. Furthermore you HAVE to run plays that are designed to get the ball out of your hands quickly like slants, hooks, outs, and comebacks.

The Seahawks have always ignored this common sense wisdom and have ran go routes, deep post routes, fades, and corners. Plays that take a long time to develop and are inherently low percentage plays.


I agree completely with your statement. We should try the west coast offense by the 49ers before. Not going for the long bomb but getting short 5-10 yard gains at a time. Short routes, quick throws, screens, and run the ball more to keep the defense guessing!
 

mikeak

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^ omg been saying it for years. Why his coaching staff has refused to move the chain by short passes I don’t understand. It does the same thing as running the ball
 

JimmyG

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SkyHawks16":3rhdzbc3 said:
northseahawk":3rhdzbc3 said:
Wilson is the common denominator. He makes the other 10 guys plus the coaches look bad.
When Wilson is in control, you could the difference in the offense. This is all on Pete and how he wants the offense to work.
When a team is up big (like 24-10) or when their isn't much time left on the clock (2-minute drill), defenses start conceding yardage to help milk the clock. A defense will gladly concede a 15-yard completion over the middle if it means eating up 25 seconds of clock time. There is a reason the offense runs more smoothly in situations like that -- the defenses are baiting them into milking the clock.
 

JimmyG

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nwHawk":17u0fvvu said:
Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).
Here's my issue: if Bevell was such a terrible offensive coordinator, how did Wilson have such an illustrious beginning to his career (101.8 passer rating over his first four years)?

Let's hypothetically accept that Bevell was "terrible" (just for the sake of argument). What would Wilson's numbers have looked like with a brilliant offensive mind? With Bevell, Wilson had the second-best passer rating from 2012-2015 (second to only Rodgers), and he lead the league in Y/A during that span. He was efficient and explosive. We were also DVOA offensive darlings.

People want to simultaneously believe that:
1) Wilson had a HOF-caliber beginning to his career + was one of the most effective/efficient QBs during that span, and,
2) he was greatly held back and hindered by Bevell

Come on. It's absolutely preposterous to believe that both of those things simultaneously occurred. Bevell was fine, and the stats bear that out.
 

TwistedHusky

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There was an ex-Steeler OC available.

Say what you will about the Steelers but you cannot dispute they could score in bunches.

We didn't have to land on Shoddy but for Pete.


That said, Bevell had to go. He was a problem on the Vikings with all the weapons there too. We got a crappier version of that because of Pete's insistence on impact plays at the expense of consistency. But it is too big a jump to say Bevell literally was making this team better.

What is missing is the defense holding things together for 3 quarters so the offense can score their lone 2 TDs in the 4th to come back from a TD down. Instead, we were down 2 TDs+ so that final drive just resulted in losing by close to or more than a TD.
 

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JimmyG":3i4ztwpo said:
nwHawk":3i4ztwpo said:
Doug Baldwin mentioned several times that Bevell was good about calling games that helped to cover up "their" mistakes. How much of that was at the point guard position? Was Bevell's last year an attempt to illustrate certain shortcomings? Player acquisition and player limitations...? (And Cable).
Here's my issue: if Bevell was such a terrible offensive coordinator, how did Wilson have such an illustrious beginning to his career (101.8 passer rating over his first four years)?

Let's hypothetically accept that Bevell was "terrible" (just for the sake of argument). What would Wilson's numbers have looked like with a brilliant offensive mind? With Bevell, Wilson had the second-best passer rating from 2012-2015 (second to only Rodgers), and he lead the league in Y/A during that span. He was efficient and explosive. We were also DVOA offensive darlings.

People want to simultaneously believe that:
1) Wilson had a HOF-caliber beginning to his career + was one of the most effective/efficient QBs during that span, and,
2) he was greatly held back and hindered by Bevell

Come on. It's absolutely preposterous to believe that both of those things simultaneously occurred. Bevell was fine, and the stats bear that out.

excellent post.
 

ZagHawk

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Bevell needed to go after SB 49 not because it was (entirely) his fault, just because the team needed to reboot and he would have been the easy scapegoat. They kept him too long after that, trust was gone. Finally getting rid of him is better late than never, BUT by keeping everything the same and thus having the same issues. Now the blame is quickly shifting to RW and PC. I don't think people would be as annoyed if we saw something different on the field despite the losses, because it says they're trying something different. When they're trying more of the same and STILL failing, well...the definition of insanity is rearing it's ugly head right here.
 

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