Why Will Pete Not Accept Innovative Offense?

Seriously, I want to know why. Anyone have any insight? We see what McVay, Shanahan, DeFillipo, Reid, Pederson, McDaniels, Payton, and Nagy are doing. You need the personnel - Nagy is a little hamstrung by Trubisky right now, but damn some of those quick hitting plays were very nice. Got the ball out of the QB's hands, put the defense in a bind, got playmakers into space with blockers.

So we have a coach who professes to want to run the ball frequently (I don't agree with this unless we have prime Beast Mode back), but doesn't run the ball. He loves the deep ball to the point that we spent an entire quarter attempting deep passes that got our QB killed behind a line that is bad at best in pass protection. How does this make any sense? What is the plan here?

The "old NFL guys" scoffed at taking college concepts and putting them into the NFL... guess what, the guys using them have an advantage over the guys who don't. Yes, you still need good personnel - Nick Foles and Trubisky are still struggling - but this is the way the league is going. Why the hell would you not take something that is clearly working well and adopt it? Evolve or die.

adeltaY":t2joayy6 said:

Seriously, I want to know why. Anyone have any insight? We see what McVay, Shanahan, DeFillipo, Reid, Pederson, McDaniels, Payton, and Nagy are doing. You need the personnel - Nagy is a little hamstrung by Trubisky right now, but damn some of those quick hitting plays were very nice. Got the ball out of the QB's hands, put the defense in a bind, got playmakers into space with blockers.

So we have a coach who professes to want to run the ball frequently (I don't agree with this unless we have prime Beast Mode back), but doesn't run the ball. He loves the deep ball to the point that we spent an entire quarter attempting deep passes that got our QB killed behind a line that is bad at best in pass protection. How does this make any sense? What is the plan here?

The "old NFL guys" scoffed at taking college concepts and putting them into the NFL... guess what, the guys using them have an advantage over the guys who don't. Yes, you still need good personnel - Nick Foles and Trubisky are still struggling - but this is the way the league is going. Why the hell would you not take something that is clearly working well and adopt it? Evolve or die.

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I've always said this, but to me Pete Carroll is running an offense that looks like it is straight out of the 70s. He really is stuck in that era of old school football.

Yet got us a SuppperBwl out of it. Thx Pete.

nwHawk":952ikcv3 said:

Yet got us a SuppperBwl out of it. Thx Pete.

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Pete's defense did yes. His offense is so bad it needs a #1 defense to drag it along.

nwHawk":2uzygpca said:

Yet got us a SuppperBwl out of it. Thx Pete.

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Which is also true. But the NFL is always evolving. Plenty of great defenses go to die without an offense to compliment it. So I still say the offense in the past did plenty. The difference is in the past we were in control. Russell could take a drive off then strike gold. Now Russell has to force it. It’s an entirely different dynamic

Add in poor protection, letting Unger and Okung go, and you have the disaster we’ve had lately

Seymour":3jh3kqf2 said:

nwHawk":3jh3kqf2 said:

Yet got us a SuppperBwl out of it. Thx Pete.

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Pete's defense did yes. His offense is so bad it needs a #1 defense to drag it along.

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Right, with one of the all time defenses and Marshawn Lynch breaking the most tackles of any RB over that span. So many more, in fact, that by the end of 2016, he was STILL the leader in broken tackles despite not playing that season. Lost is the fact that RW was one of the most efficient passers in the league in that SB stretch. Without that, we don't win a ring.

How is that sustainable in the modern NFL? You see the Jags doing it, but their OL is so good that Bortles can chill back there and sling the ball if he needs to. We never had and still don't have that.

So what's the plan? Have Russ drop back and pray someone comes open. Hope QBs throw 2+ picks every game so we still have a chance?

The answer to the thread question is paradigmes.

If not familiar with this term look it up because it is absolutely true.

adeltaY":2gjr20lu said:

Seriously, I want to know why. Anyone have any insight? We see what McVay, Shanahan, DeFillipo, Reid, Pederson, McDaniels, Payton, and Nagy are doing. You need the personnel - Nagy is a little hamstrung by Trubisky right now, but damn some of those quick hitting plays were very nice. Got the ball out of the QB's hands, put the defense in a bind, got playmakers into space with blockers.

So we have a coach who professes to want to run the ball frequently (I don't agree with this unless we have prime Beast Mode back), but doesn't run the ball. He loves the deep ball to the point that we spent an entire quarter attempting deep passes that got our QB killed behind a line that is bad at best in pass protection. How does this make any sense? What is the plan here?

The "old NFL guys" scoffed at taking college concepts and putting them into the NFL... guess what, the guys using them have an advantage over the guys who don't. Yes, you still need good personnel - Nick Foles and Trubisky are still struggling - but this is the way the league is going. Why the hell would you not take something that is clearly working well and adopt it? Evolve or die.

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Mike Holmgren, I believe once said, he knew he was done coaching when he could no longer innovate and "evolve" with the times.

I believe Pete Carroll is at (and have always been) at this current state.

When the NFL evolves and premier play calling with the exciting schemes find success and your system does not, your system has been figured out and you need to be replaced.

Pete Carroll is the genius behind the Super Bowl win but is also holding the team back from more Super Bowls because his offensive system is not sustainable and absolutely requires an elite defense.

Gonna be a disappointing season.

Book it, the Cowboys will beat the Seahawks on Sunday and the boos will rain down!!!!

Not looking good for Carroll!!

adeltaY":ugs4grrk said:

Seriously, I want to know why. Anyone have any insight?

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To put it bluntly.. ego.

Pete stated at USC once he finally got control of the offense, he never wanted to let go of it.

The reason he took the Seattle job, was he was given ABSOLUTE POWER, with Schneider as his helper. To go along with his underling "yes" man coaching staff.

It worked early on. He had major incite to the prospects in the draft. They hit on a bunch of players. Teams didn't value big defensive backs. Seattle exploited it.

2010 they traded for a HOF RB in Marshawn Lynch.

2012 They hit on a franchise QB in Russell Wilson.

They had an insane talent level. An unheard of #1 in DVOA 4 consecutive seasons. 90's Cowboys, 70's Steelers type teams. Relatively anyways given the salary cap.

They got out schemed every week. It didn't matter then because they had way more talent, so they could win in-spite of getting out coached. But if you look long and hard at even those dominant Hawk teams they had a lot of head scratching lossess. 49 being the poster child that everyone will gravitate toward.

As the talent level has fallen, Carroll continues to get exposed, it's painfully obvious the NFL game has passed him by, but he won't admit it. It's like trying to take the car keys away from grandpa at this point.

If your Pete why change he's been super successful doing it the way he has in the past. Part of having the number 1 defense in the NFL is the style of offense we have. It defintly could be more creative but I don't think we need to go full on Cheifs mode.

getnasty":3gqrkmpk said:

If your Pete why change he's been super successful doing it the way he has in the past.

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Because its not working and this is why the organization needs to seriously think about moving on from Pete.

He reminds me of Phil Jackson. Give him Jordan or Kobe and Shaq and he’s good.

Most of what is called innovative is actually new branding of recycled concepts.

It's the rule changes and changes in rule enforcement that are having an evolutionary impact on the game.

Fade":1bauqv1z said:

adeltaY":1bauqv1z said:

Seriously, I want to know why. Anyone have any insight?

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Pete stated at USC once he finally got control of the offense, he never wanted to let go of it.

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I'm calling BS on that. I've been following USC football for decades, and especially closely during 2001-2009.

If Pete made this comment, he did it in jest. He never ever ran the offense. That was Chow, Kiffin and Sark. Pete always maintained veto power over any play, but he rarely used it. Pete ran the D. Just like here.

To say football has passed Pete by is to ignore the salary cap and the hard decisions that had to be made on who to keep and who to part with. Pete spent the money on Russ and the D. Worked out for a few years, but outside of New England, dynasties are hard to maintain for more than a few years.

If there were bad decisions made, they were personnel related, the likes of which have been discussed ad nauseum here. You can only get so much water out of a stone, and no coach in the NFL is going to out-scheme anyone with the talent level we currently have.