Pete Carroll chose philosophy over Wilson

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-seahawks-bears-brian-schottenheimer-pete-carroll-russell-wilson

The lack of creativity was startling, especially when juxtaposed with a Bears offense that has infused a bunch of college-inspired concepts into its scheme in order to take advantage of Mitch Trubisky’s mobility. The Seahawks, meanwhile, treated Wilson like a late-career John Elway.

"Read Option, Sprint Right Option, Speed Option….TE Screen, Gap Screen, Slot Screen, Bubble Screen, RB Screen….Draw, Sprint Draw, Play Action Off Draw…No Huddle, Muddle Huddle, Quick Break Huddle…Many ways to use Bears aggressiveness against them. Seen almost none of this"

— Brock Huard (@BrockESPN) September 18, 2018

Good stuff. Football heads in the know can see it.

Take Wilson in a great OC team, I have no doubt the guy will be a top 3 QB. Wilson is badly affected by Pete's coaching, when is the one controlling the offense and has the yes man to do what he wants. It seems like the man doesn't want to win, since he refuses to evolve as a coach. This is affecting Wilson.

The man is paying RW $20 million...Wouldn't you do what he want's for that?

Fade":1b1csixg said:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-seahawks-bears-brian-schottenheimer-pete-carroll-russell-wilson

The lack of creativity was startling, especially when juxtaposed with a Bears offense that has infused a bunch of college-inspired concepts into its scheme in order to take advantage of Mitch Trubisky’s mobility. The Seahawks, meanwhile, treated Wilson like a late-career John Elway.

"Read Option, Sprint Right Option, Speed Option….TE Screen, Gap Screen, Slot Screen, Bubble Screen, RB Screen….Draw, Sprint Draw, Play Action Off Draw…No Huddle, Muddle Huddle, Quick Break Huddle…Many ways to use Bears aggressiveness against them. Seen almost none of this"

— Brock Huard (@BrockESPN) September 18, 2018

Good stuff. Football heads in the know can see it.

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Great minds think alike. This is precisely my opinion. If Wilson leaves the Hawks he'll go to a coach that will use Wilson's athleticism and not try to use him as a "late career John Elway". Wilson will leave for the offense not the money, as he'll get paid wherever he goes.

A good OC and good DC makes a world of difference.

We don't have a good OC.

We hired someone not as bad as Bevell but almost as bad as Bevell. Then we repeated some of the same tactics that did not work last year. Shoddy is garbage.

I knew he was garbage. And frankly, Pete is a liability and coming close to being garbage.

His offenses are garbage already and I know that is Pete. His philosophy worked but people adapt, and now it doesn't. Yet he still clings to a tired and dated philosophy (wrapped in platitudes and bullcrap) that does not work.

The sad part is he is sanding down his legacy. People are going to remember him more for why he failed than putting together one of the greatest teams in NFL history.

Yeah, you were right about Shotty Twisted, he isn't that good. They refuse to stick to the run, they refuse to change things up, and they refuse to STOP trying to make Russ a QB that he isn't. They should be looking at his strengths and going with that. We got outcoached last night, big time.

I don't want Pete gone, but if this continues, I'm not gonna' be opposed to a change. Slowly but surely I'm just getting sick of all the lies that this is a running team. He's better than he's coaching this year, if that makes any sense.

SoulfishHawk":n364afbv said:

Yeah, you were right about Shotty Twisted, he isn't that good. They refuse to stick to the run, they refuse to change things up, and they refuse to STOP trying to make Russ a QB that he isn't. They should be looking at his strengths and going with that. We got outcoached last night, big time.

I don't want Pete gone, but if this continues, I'm not gonna' be opposed to a change.

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Pete ball is the #1 problem!!

Pete admitted he told Schotty to take down field shots late 1st quarter and then the 3 and outs fest started.

Pete is out of his mind thinking his QB had enough protection to take those shots....he is setting Wilson up for a death wish.

The sick and pathetic thing is that we have shown we can run.

And running the ball is easier on bad offensive lines.

The most frustrating thing in this whole debacle is that Wilson is not calling him out for it. Wilson should be screaming that his OC is setting himself up to fail. Rodgers would be literally giving interviews where he would be handing out the OC's home address so people can go throw garbage at it like the Texan's fans did.

TwistedHusky":3n7n4txo said:

We hired someone not as bad as Bevell but almost as bad as Bevell. Then we repeated some of the same tactics that did not work last year. Shoddy is garbage. .

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I'm not a big fan of Schottenheimer but Pete hired him and Solari to fix the run game...........................and then he's done nothing but tell Schottenheimer to pass and abandon the run game.

This isn't on Shotty, it's on Pete.

TwistedHusky":25wo1vk1 said:

A good OC and good DC makes a world of difference.

We don't have a good OC.

We hired someone not as bad as Bevell but almost as bad as Bevell. Then we repeated some of the same tactics that did not work last year. Shoddy is garbage.

I knew he was garbage. And frankly, Pete is a liability and coming close to being garbage.

His offenses are garbage already and I know that is Pete. His philosophy worked but people adapt, and now it doesn't. Yet he still clings to a tired and dated philosophy (wrapped in platitudes and bullcrap) that does not work.

The sad part is he is sanding down his legacy. People are going to remember him more for why he failed than putting together one of the greatest teams in NFL history.

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Dude, at least Bevell seemingly had some sort of rapport with Wilson. My pet theory du jour is RW is going through a slump because he knows they are doubling down on stuff that was pretty far from great, all without a guy he got along with well enough.

Saddening. If Pete refuses to change, we are screwed.

Sgt. Largent":25qnekd4 said:

TwistedHusky":25qnekd4 said:

We hired someone not as bad as Bevell but almost as bad as Bevell. Then we repeated some of the same tactics that did not work last year. Shoddy is garbage. .

Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of Schottenheimer but Pete hired him and Solari to fix the run game...........................and then he's done nothing but tell Schottenheimer to pass and abandon the run game.

This isn't on Shotty, it's on Pete.

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Today we agree!! :2thumbs:

+1,000,000,000

TwistedHusky":t79rgipc said:

The sick and pathetic thing is that we have shown we can run.

And running the ball is easier on bad offensive lines.

The most frustrating thing in this whole debacle is that Wilson is not calling him out for it. Wilson should be screaming that his OC is setting himself up to fail. Rodgers would be literally giving interviews where he would be handing out the OC's home address so people can go throw garbage at it like the Texan's fans did.

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Schotty could put a loaded gun under RWs chin and RW instincts would compel him to ask "and whats next?"

I guess I'll just put my thoughts here on the "offensive philosophy" thread. Here's a breakdown of our three (or four)-and-out drives
1st & 10 at SEA 25
(4:55 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to B.Marshall to SEA 35 for 10 yards (P.Amukamara).

1st & 10 at SEA 35
(4:18 - 1st) (Shotgun) C.Carson right end to SEA 39 for 4 yards (L.Floyd).

2nd & 6 at SEA 39
(3:42 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to B.Marshall (P.Amukamara).

3rd & 6 at SEA 39
(3:38 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to W.Dissly.

4th & 6 at SEA 39
(3:15 - 1st) M.Dickson punts 54 yards to CHI 7, Center-T.Ott. T.Cohen to CHI 39 for 32 yards (J.Coleman).

--
1st & 10 at SEA 13
(14:15 - 2nd) C.Carson right guard to SEA 17 for 4 yards (A.Hicks).

2nd & 6 at SEA 17
(14:15 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to N.Vannett. PENALTY on SEA-J.Sweezy, Offensive Holding, 9 yards, enforced at SEA 17 - No Play.

2nd & 15 at SEA 8
(13:25 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson sacked at SEA 1 for -7 yards (E.Goldman).

3rd & 22 at SEA 1
(12:41 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to B.Marshall to SEA 9 for 8 yards (P.Amukamara).

4th & 14 at SEA 9
(11:59 - 2nd) M.Dickson punts 53 yards to CHI 38, Center-T.Ott, out of bounds.

--
1st & 10 at SEA 24
(11:51 - 2nd) C.Carson right guard to SEA 27 for 3 yards (R.Smith).

2nd & 7 at SEA 27
(11:09 - 2nd) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to N.Vannett (L.Floyd).

3rd & 7 at SEA 27
(11:03 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to B.Marshall.

4th & 7 at SEA 27
(10:45 - 2nd) M.Dickson punts 55 yards to CHI 18, Center-T.Ott. T.Cohen pushed ob at CHI 33 for 15 yards (D.Daniels).
--
1st & 10 at CHI 43
(8:54 - 2nd) R.Wilson sacked at CHI 45 for -2 yards (E.Jackson).

2nd & 12 at CHI 45
(8:11 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Penny right guard to CHI 45 for no gain (K.Mack).

3rd & 12 at CHI 45
(7:30 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on SEA-G.Ifedi, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 45 - No Play.

3rd & 17 at 50
(7:21 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson sacked at SEA 42 for -8 yards (K.Mack). FUMBLES (K.Mack), recovered by SEA-J.Sweezy at SEA 41. J.Sweezy to SEA 41 for no gain (K.Mack).

4th & 26 at SEA 41
(6:33 - 2nd) M.Dickson punts 10 yards to CHI 49, Center-T.Ott, out of bounds.

--

1st & 10 at SEA 8
(6:36 - 3rd) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to C.Carson (R.Smith).

2nd & 10 at SEA 8
(6:29 - 3rd) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep left to T.Lockett [A.Hicks].

(6:29 - 3rd) Timeout #1 by SEA at 06:24.

3rd & 10 at SEA 8
(6:24 - 3rd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Davis to SEA 7 for -1 yards (A.Lynch).

4th & 11 at SEA 7
(5:46 - 3rd) M.Dickson punts 53 yards to CHI 40, Center-T.Ott. T.Cohen to SEA 48 for 12 yards (T.Madden). PENALTY on CHI-P.Amukamara, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 44.
_________________________________________________________________________

As you can see, above, the run game was totally abandoned on these drives. Sure, there were a few no-gain touches, but the successful drives featured a lot of running to open up the pass. Here's an idea--if you are going to throw it deep, make sure that you have established a running game to keep defenses respecting the run. The most frustrating thing was that the run game was working on the successful drives--even gains of three-four yards help. We need to run the ball more and stop abandoning it so often. We became totally predictable in this game passing more than we should have.

Shoddy unfettered would not have fixed this.

Pete hiring Shoddy was a problem. But we knew it was a decision made because Shoddy would defer to Pete's stupid plans.

Pete is the problem, Shoddy is the symptom, but either way Shoddy was never going to make us a great offense.

TwistedHusky":2nlee4q3 said:

Shoddy unfettered would not have fixed this.

Pete hiring Shoddy was a problem. But we knew it was a decision made because Shoddy would defer to Pete's stupid plans.

Pete is the problem, Shoddy is the symptom, but either way Shoddy was never going to make us a great offense.

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I agree, I wasn't insinuating that.

This is football, it ALL goes in tandem. But Pete is the one undermining any success this offense might have under Schottenheimer, and IMO just as he hamstrung Bevell at times.

Doesn't mean we'd go 16-0, because there's also a massive talent deficit on this roster. But Pete isn't helping, he's hindering.

TwistedHusky":19g8x88r said:

Shoddy unfettered would not have fixed this.

Pete hiring Shoddy was a problem. But we knew it was a decision made because Shoddy would defer to Pete's stupid plans.

Pete is the problem, Shoddy is the symptom, but either way Shoddy was never going to make us a great offense.

Click to expand...

I can't wait for John P Gilbert at Fieldgulls to drop a long missive on this.

Again, in the preseason it was clear we had all the pieces to be a high scoring offense.

But if you have a low scoring coach, that is hard to do.

Look at how Graham performed in NO vs here. Wait for a bit and see how he is used better in GB, even not as the primary weapon.

Ultimately the results you get depend on how you use the tools you have, our best tools are offensive but if the one making the decision refuses to use them right? It won't matter.

We can run the ball but we like throwing the ball long because Pete believes in impact plays. He is focused on this alleged KPI even though it is clearly a counterindicator of success. Yet, here we are with long developing plays. To compensate, we keep more of the others guys in - which gives Wilson less options and makes it easier to defend. It also makes it harder for him to even throw the ball away to avoid the sack.

This is going to be a long year of Pete forcing a terrible offensive philosophy on a team without the roster to execute it.

But the team has the horses to be a good offense, in spite of the OL issues.

What this team needed was an OC that had a track record of putting in place high scoring offenses. We did not get that.

That was a tremendous disservice to Wilson and his potential to be one of the better QBs in the league. Right now the biggest thing holding Wilson back is his unwillingness to resist if not outright push back against his HC.

Yep, this team clearly CAN run. But let's not do something that would help the team and QB Immensely. :roll:

TwistedHusky":2m8v9drs said:

The sick and pathetic thing is that we have shown we can run.

And running the ball is easier on bad offensive lines.

The most frustrating thing in this whole debacle is that Wilson is not calling him out for it. Wilson should be screaming that his OC is setting himself up to fail. Rodgers would be literally giving interviews where he would be handing out the OC's home address so people can go throw garbage at it like the Texan's fans did.

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Really? When have these RBs shown they can run the ball with this terrible O-line? They were getting killed on every play.

And BTW Rodgers has been to one Super Bowl, and that was 8 years ago. Hardly a model to follow.