I’m happy about the win but ....Things I find strange

ImTheScientist · Sep 24, 2018

1) it’s ok for Doug to yell at people the way he did on the sidelines

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.

4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.

I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

Uncle Si · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":35pyfvhk said:
1) it’s ok for Doug to yell at people the way he did on the sidelines

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.

4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.

I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

We dont know what Baldwin was saying. So most people are reserving judgment

Fans are celebrating that they ran the ball and gave Wilson some balance.

Thomas.. I mean who knows. It's weird. But i'd rather have him helping us win games than sitting at home like Bell.

NFL offenses are always "moving" in some direction or the other, all the time. It's not like this is a new trend.

aawolf · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":3f0xv5v7 said:
1) it’s ok for Doug to yell at people the way he did on the sidelines

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.

4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.

I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

I share your concerns about the lack of discipline on this team, which has always been a problem in Pete's tenure.

However, on #2, I'll say its great that we had 32 carries for 3.2 yards because consistently running the ball opens up the offense and allows the back to get into rhythm. The point of a running game is not only to break off large chunks of yardage on every carry, but to keep the defense honest defending the run (thus, opening up the passing game down field), to wear down the clock and keep opposing offenses off the field, and to give the running backs an opportunity to get larger gains later in the game when the defensive lines are worn down. All of these things happened in this game, which contributed to the win.

oldhawkfan · Sep 24, 2018

aawolf":dty8nukt said:
ImTheScientist":dty8nukt said:

1) it’s ok for Doug to yell at people the way he did on the sidelines

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.

4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.

I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

Click to expand...

I share your concerns about the lack of discipline on this team, which has always been a problem in Pete's tenure.

However, on #2, I'll say its great that we had 32 carries for 3.2 yards because consistently running the ball opens up the offense and allows the back to get into rhythm. The point of a running game is not only to break off large chunks of yardage on every carry, but to keep the defense honest defending the run (thus, opening up the passing game down field), to wear down the clock and keep opposing offenses off the field, and to give the running backs an opportunity to get larger gains later in the game when the defensive lines are worn down. All of these things happened in this game, which contributed to the win.

Here’s the thing about yards per carry that people get hung up on. While 3.2 ypc doesn’t seem like much, it is wearing the defense down and taking time off the clock. YPC stats can often times be very misleading. It doesn’t mean that every single run nets 3.2 yards but is rather the average gain throughout the game. Some runs are longer, some runs are losses. If he had one additional carry at the end of the game that went for 20 yards then we are looking at a 4 ypc average and all of a sudden everyone is happy and dancing in the streets.

A running Attack must be looked at as an all game attack. Carson’s ypc might have been better in the first 2 games but it wasn’t effective. Mostly because it wasn’t used all game long. It’s not necessarily the long gains, although those are nice and exciting, but rather the constant pounding and clock control that makes the bigger difference.

Ad Hawk · Sep 24, 2018

A couple other things allowed the Run-Game to work:

1. Fewer penalties that backed us up
2. Fewer sacks
3. Not too many carries for a loss of yards
4. Better position on 3rd down (3rd and short[er]) as the game wore on

This game was much cleaner in these regards.

TwistedHusky · Sep 24, 2018

Doug has arguably done as much for this franchise as Wilson.

Almost all the great scramble plays where Russell flings it up had Baldwin on the end of it, making amazing catches. Some of those balls were near uncatchable and somehow he roped them in (like the toe tap catch on the sidelines in Carolina a few years back, as a for instance).

Doug is our biggest threat in the RZ and most reliable.

I don't care if he is punching coaches in the face as long as he scores TDs. Frankly, his opinion matters more than the OC since he has actually produced.

And it could be argued that the offense was shifted back on track by his tirade.

Doug gets to do whatever he wants, he has earned it. The guys he yelled at? Not even close. Until they do, they need to shut up, take it, listen and then do whatever he says.

Optimus25 · Sep 24, 2018

You know there is something besides 'stats' to evaluate your team. Or better said, stats can be construed a number of ways to make illogical points. I don't know if ypc is THE worst stat to look at, but if you must why apply it to an entire game which we were leading big time comfortably the majority?

With a large lead and the entire fourth quarter to play, the defense is no longer playing honest. Therefore, what do you expect, Barry Sanders type numbers out of the backfield, or rather very small clock eating gains?

MontanaHawk05 · Sep 24, 2018

YPC is a dumb metric to judge anything by.

Carson is doing his job. You don't reach 100 yards in a game by sucking.

AROS · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":17qruqim said:
2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

Wrong. It's great. They committed to the run game. It wasn't huge chunks, but it was smash-mouth, honest football and it was effective.

SoulfishHawk · Sep 24, 2018

I can't even fathom being anything but happy with what we saw yesterday from the running game. They stuck to it, YPC means squat, they wore them down with all the runs, and won the time of possession battle.

Seymour · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":1zuw5a9p said:
1) it’s ok for Doug to yell at people the way he did on the sidelines

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.

4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.

I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

I agree. Bring back Eddie Lacy so we can celebrate 2.6 YPC. :sarcasm_off:

The commitment to the run opened up plays down field and helped with the pass rush. It accomplished more than 3.2 YPC in the grand scheme of things.

Mad Dog · Sep 24, 2018

Aros":2ztxapgl said:
ImTheScientist":2ztxapgl said:

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

Click to expand...

Wrong. It's great. They committed to the run game. It wasn't huge chunks, but it was smash-mouth, honest football and it was effective.

Exactly. When you are up by 3 scores, teams know you are going to run and they will line up to stop it. Being able to keep gaining positive yards despite that is nothing but good news.

The biggest reason why Dallas average more ground ypc than us is that they ran when everyone expected them to pass and we ran when everyone expected us to run. Coaches aren't stupid. When we are up we will let you get 8 yds per carry if it keeps the clock moving.

XxXdragonXxX · Sep 24, 2018

Carson was averaging 4 YPC most of the game. They clamped down at the end when they knew all we were doing was running and brought his average down.

SoulfishHawk · Sep 24, 2018

Zeke averaged 7.9 yards. How did his team do? But he got "stats" so that's good :stirthepot:

Sgt. Largent · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":2abbv0pu said:
3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great..

If we don't heavily fine Earl for missing practice, I'll agree with you.

He's played great so far, but you can't allow him to throw his trade tantrums without consequences.

SoulfishHawk · Sep 24, 2018

IF you trade him, highest bidder. At this point, no need to cater to his desire to play for the team he wants to.

kidhawk · Sep 24, 2018

XxXdragonXxX":24aw649o said:
Carson was averaging 4 YPC most of the game. They clamped down at the end when they knew all we were doing was running and brought his average down.

:ditto:

Carson was a beast and at the end of the game, they were zoning in on the run, because we were both eating the clock and getting him his 100 yards. They knew it, everyone knew it so it brought down his average. What he did yesterday (which has been mentioned above) is to create positive plays, good momentum, short yardage situations which allow us to convert 1st downs easier and scored a TD. This is the type of play we need more of, not less.

CamanoIslandJQ · Sep 24, 2018

""If we don't heavily fine Earl for missing practice, I'll agree with you.""

IIRC, Beastmode used to miss a lot of practices and even some games because "he didn't feel right". This was allowed by PC likely due to the perceived superstar status of Lynch. IIRC, I don't recall Lynch ever being fined for missing any practices or games. Obviously, there is no superstar exception for ET from PC or from some fans. How come?

:smilingalien:

toffee · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":2zwqgf40 said:
1) it’s ok for Doug to yell at people the way he did on the sidelines

2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.

3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.

4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.

I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

I agree with all four of your points.

- Pete's team often lack discipline which led to Pete losing the locker room in the last two seasons.

- When Carson was at 20 carries or so, he had 70+ yards or about 3.5 ypc. At that point, I thought he was going to hit 100 yards, as Dallas's defense was tiring ... so time to burst a long one. That obvious didn't happen. So it took Carson another 12 carries to gain the last 30 yards or so. But we were leading, but quite a bit. Running at that point was to kill time.

- After yesterday's game, Cowboy's need for a legit safety is so obvious. Won't be surprised that Earn start for the girls next week.

- For our long term success? Pete demonstrated his genius with defense, in the three games, we could have won it all because of overachieving defense. Offense lacks another WR that can get open consistently .... and hold on the ball. Once Baldwin is at full speed, then we need a tall procession WR.

As a rebuilding team, we are doing OK. If this team can be 30% better by second half of this season, we will be a contender next year.

HawkGA · Sep 24, 2018

ImTheScientist":1njavto9 said:
2) fans are celebrating 3.2ypc on 32 carries. That’s not good.
The 32 carries I think is the big thing. 3.2 isn't great but if I recall, it was higher earlier in the game and came down towards the end when it was obvious the Seahawks were going to run. Now, it would be nice if they could have done a better job in those instances but I think it's the early part of the game that was appealing to fans.
3) we allow Earl to act the way he acted this week. Unless you trade the guy this week that’s not great.
I don't know what "allow" means. There was talk of him getting some pretty big fines. Not sure what else you expect them to do. I guess you could bench him, but he's still pretty darn good.
4) with the way NFL offenses are going with more spread/college offense (and seemingly the perfect QB to run it) we continue to move backwards in time.
This is true. I would like to see the Hawks with a more innovative offensive coach. I think Russ would excel in that. But it ain't happening.
I get people are happy with the win but it doesn’t bode well for long term success.

I’m happy about the win but ....Things I find strange

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