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Fire Pete

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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:06 pm
  • mrt144 wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    My Ben Franklin question was in response to an all negative list offered up. Nobody, including the Seahawks, bats a thousand with personnel decisions. There are positive acknowledgements such as the emergence of such rookies as Will Dissley and veteran acquisitions like Bradley McDougald.

    With Chuck Knox, his offensive and defensive and special teams preferences all fit together. They reinforced each other. Seems to me the same is true with Pete along with other successful coaches. It all must work hand in hand reinforcing each other as a unified style of football.

    What I really like about Pete Carroll is the culture he has built. Along with the consensuses building that Paul Allen mandates in making franchise decisions.


    I wish that the culture wasn't so holistic that it seems spiteful at times.


    That's certainly understandable. We on the outside are not intimately engaged in that VMAC culture and are often prone to misinterpret.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:08 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    ExBassGuide wrote:In Pete I Trust!


    Hard hitting analysis.

    What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?

    Stick with Cable & Bevell? Replace Bevell with Schotty?

    Sign Eddy Lacey? Cary Williams? Joeckel?

    Drafting Rashard Penny? Ifedi?

    Burning a 1st & your pro-bowl Center on Jimmy Graham, and then proceed to comically misutilize him?

    Letting major UFA's walk in Jimmy Graham & Sheldon Richardson, and then sign bum UFAs that cancel out your comp picks?

    Piss off veteran players like Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman, ET, Michael Bennett?

    Cliff Avril stating publicly he never listened to Pete. (Probably the majority of the team tuned him out.) ?

    Not Signing Earl Thomas or trading him for a draft pick Pick(s) (Piss or get off the pot.) ?

    Letting Okung walk, and proceed to ignore LT for 1.5 seasons? Leaving the QB's blindside unprotected?

    Getting your franchise QB pummeled into the ground for 4 years, with trash O-Lines & a dated scheme?

    Get rid of a good kicker, for spotty kickers?

    The decreased amount of wins for going on 5 consecutive seasons?

    Having only 4 draft picks going into the 2019 NFL Draft when you're supposed to be rebuilding?

    Tell me please, I want to know????


    A lot of these situations sound more like a JS issue than a PC issue. I don't think Pete micro manages or overrides managers, scouts, assistants or players to the extent that you think he does. In fact, he lets "Marshawn be Marshawn" etc. That's just his style.

    But why should he be given a longer leash? Because this is basically a freshmen class. And he's proven his ability to develop young players into future stars. His coaching is proven, his overall formula and philosophy has since 2013 been emulated by many teams in the league.

    The real problem is the level of young talent we currently have on the roster, and not all of that is on Pete.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:31 pm
  • Jville wrote:My Ben Franklin question was in response to an all negative list offered up. Nobody, including the Seahawks, bats a thousand with personnel decisions. There are many positive acknowledgements such as the emergence of such rookies as Will Dissley and veteran acquisitions like Bradley McDougald.


    Dissly & McDougald is not many, and cannot make up for what has transpired over the last 5 years. I gave you a laundry list of players, coaches, scheme problems, lockeroom issues, etc. Very telling, and proves my point quite emphatically.

    Jville wrote:
    With Chuck Knox, his offensive and defensive and special teams preferences all fit together. They reinforced each other. Seems to me the same is true with Pete along with other successful coaches. It all must work hand in hand reinforcing each other as a unified style of football.


    If only football was still being played in the 80's where there was no salary cap, had the long term player control, and the rules of yesteryear.

    Top flight pass rush units, & or Franchise QBs win the Superbowls In the modern game.

    Sure you can site 7 of the top 10 running teams made the playoffs last year, but it is mainly due to circumstance. Having the lead for the majority of the game, and getting to run the clock out in the 2nd half. This is how modern football is now played. Well coached teams jump out to a big lead, and then run the clock out in the 2nd half. In a mixture of ways I might add, getting the ball to a variety of players. Pete just wants to start running the clock out from the beginning against loaded boxes, and then throw it when he should run it on short yardage plays. Modern teams are now also getting more production out of running it with the QB, and WRs on the perimeter, in college spread concepts. De-emphasizing the traditional running game even more. Pete Carroll's offense is so far behind the times it will cancel out any significant improvement the defense will make.

    Franchise QB > Top Flight Pass Rush > O-Line (Pass blockers)> Secondary > Linebackers > Running Game (Run blockers). Is how talent acquistion priority is in the modern game. Especially since RBs can be had in the later rounds. (The best RB on the team is a 7th rdr.)

    Pete has prioritized a certain one over the others the last few years, and it has put him in the whole he finds himself in.

    J'Macus Webb
    Germain Ifedi
    Rhees Odhiambo
    CJ Prosise
    Alex Collins (cut)
    Eddie Lacey
    Luke Joeckel
    Rashard Penny

    Significant money and draft capitol was spent on these players to fix the running game. When most of the major capitol should've been spent on assets that are hard to acquire / find, Pass protectors, and Pass rushers.

    The rungame doesn't need significant capitol. 7th rdr Carson, off the scrap heap Mike Davis, cheap UFA's Fluker & Sweezy can do it just fine. Pete built the team backwards in an outdated fashion, while surrounding himself with "yes" men. Now he will be gone in 2 yrs or less.





    L-ville wrote:What I really like about Pete Carroll is the culture he has built.


    Image
    Did you stop watching games 5 years ago or something?


    This culture?
    Image

    Image

    Image

    The team turning on him so he had to blow the whole thing up, and fire most of his coaching staff... culture?

    https://www.barstoolsports.com/viral/cliff-avril-says-seahawks-stopped-trusting-pete-carroll-after-the-malcolm-butler-play

    Wow! Thx for the laughs buddy.

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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:52 pm
  • ^^^^^^^^ :177692:
    You've convinced me Fade.

    Image

    Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:19 pm
  • When a team is losing, it’s easy to point at the coach. Last year it was Bevell, this year it is Pete. How have these new coaches worked out:

    Shannahan in SF
    Wilkes in Arizona
    Vance Joseph in Denver
    Sean McDermott in Buffalo
    Matt Patricia in Detroit
    Jon Gruden in Oakland
    Pat Shurmer in NY
    Frank Reich in Indi

    My point is, changing the coach doesn’t guarantee squat. Bad teams fire their coach and still suck with the new coach. We are 2-2, do you guys actually think some other coach would have us at 3-1? For every Sean McVay hire there are 3 failed or lateral coaching hires. Pete isn’t getting fired, at least not anytime soon.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:55 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:When a team is losing, it’s easy to point at the coach. Last year it was Bevell, this year it is Pete. How have these new coaches worked out:

    Shannahan in SF
    Wilkes in Arizona
    Vance Joseph in Denver
    Sean McDermott in Buffalo
    Matt Patricia in Detroit
    Jon Gruden in Oakland
    Pat Shurmer in NY
    Frank Reich in Indi

    My point is, changing the coach doesn’t guarantee squat. Bad teams fire their coach and still suck with the new coach. We are 2-2, do you guys actually think some other coach would have us at 3-1? For every Sean McVay hire there are 3 failed or lateral coaching hires. Pete isn’t getting fired, at least not anytime soon.


    Which one of those coaches was an exciting hire except for Shanahan, the only guy who has his team competitive with a really bad QB situation? In the eight games with a legitimate starting QB, Shanahan was 6-2. He's a good coach.

    Jon Gruden was a perplexing hire from the point of trying to win football games. The guy's been out of the league for ages and had a big hand in trading Mack and seems to have instigated a schism in the personnel department.

    Frank Reich and Pat Shurmur came into terrible teams with very little talent and have just started.

    Vance Joseph was the defensive coordinator for a pretty bad Miami defense and somehow got hired as a HC? Steve Wilkes is similar. Was he DC of the Panthers for more than a year? Matt Patricia was also DC for a pretty meh defense.

    I don't want Pete gone because I like him a lot and he is a defensive wizard, but we need a change in offense and we need it ASAP. I posted in another thread, but RW's per game stats so far this year are alarmingly close to Tarvaris Jackson's in 2011. How is that acceptable in any way? We have a great QB in his prime and you wouldn't know it if you watched the Hawks this year. That's very frustrating.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:14 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:I'm happy for what Carroll has brought us, but I can no longer say he is actually elevating the team. Things could be worse than Carroll, but with Carroll I think we are going to stuck with a team that hovers around 7-9 each season, plus or minus a few wins -- essentially Jeff Fisher territory. I think he could have more success if he gives up all control of offensive play calling, and planning, but that won't happen.


    That would put Seattle right on par with the history of the franchise. Seattle has finished between 7 and 9 wins 50% of the seasons they've been around. The Panthers are 2nd with 48% of the time.

    If you want to up it to between 6 and 10 wins, Seattle has done that 74% of the time. The closest is the Redskins at 64%.

    A Pete Carroll coached team accounts for 3 of the 21 seasons within 1 game and 4 of the 31 Seasons within 2 games.

    Until he starts to fall out of franchise norms, I'm just going to be happy that I get to watch some football. (And compile stats)

    I do agree though, if he could find a way to let go of the offense and just focus on the defense this team would be leaps and bounds better. They have the talent, they just lack the creativity on offense.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:20 am
  • While I don’t know want to disrupt Fade’s post about the PC woes he did fail to also point out the in game decisions and clock management. But it’s not necessary as he crushed the point.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:37 am
  • adeltaY wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:When a team is losing, it’s easy to point at the coach. Last year it was Bevell, this year it is Pete. How have these new coaches worked out:

    Shannahan in SF
    Wilkes in Arizona
    Vance Joseph in Denver
    Sean McDermott in Buffalo
    Matt Patricia in Detroit
    Jon Gruden in Oakland
    Pat Shurmer in NY
    Frank Reich in Indi

    My point is, changing the coach doesn’t guarantee squat. Bad teams fire their coach and still suck with the new coach. We are 2-2, do you guys actually think some other coach would have us at 3-1? For every Sean McVay hire there are 3 failed or lateral coaching hires. Pete isn’t getting fired, at least not anytime soon.


    Which one of those coaches was an exciting hire except for Shanahan, the only guy who has his team competitive with a really bad QB situation? In the eight games with a legitimate starting QB, Shanahan was 6-2. He's a good coach.

    Jon Gruden was a perplexing hire from the point of trying to win football games. The guy's been out of the league for ages and had a big hand in trading Mack and seems to have instigated a schism in the personnel department.

    Frank Reich and Pat Shurmur came into terrible teams with very little talent and have just started.

    Vance Joseph was the defensive coordinator for a pretty bad Miami defense and somehow got hired as a HC? Steve Wilkes is similar. Was he DC of the Panthers for more than a year? Matt Patricia was also DC for a pretty meh defense.

    I don't want Pete gone because I like him a lot and he is a defensive wizard, but we need a change in offense and we need it ASAP. I posted in another thread, but RW's per game stats so far this year are alarmingly close to Tarvaris Jackson's in 2011. How is that acceptable in any way? We have a great QB in his prime and you wouldn't know it if you watched the Hawks this year. That's very frustrating.


    I agree Shanny is a good coach, he's just had terrible luck there in SF. Which shows most of coaching has to do with the team you takeover. Do you really think Dan Quinn would have all this success if he took a job in Buffalo or Cleveland? How many coaches are fortunate enough to take over a team with a franchise QB.

    Reich and Shurmer are both offensive minds. I think most anyone here in Seattle would have been excited to see them take over as OC or even possibly head coach. I think both those teams have as much if not more talent on offense than us. Sure we have RW and Doug Baldwin, but after that we have zero big names on offense. The Giants have Saquon Barkley, Odell Beckham Jr, Evan Engram, and Sterling Shepard. The Colts are probably on par with us having Luck and TY Hilton and a bunch of nobodies.

    I agree that going with an offensive minded coach is the way to go, but even then it isn't a guarantee. You are only as strong as your roster is.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:05 am
  • For everyone that said "PAY THE MAN" about Earl, Pete just showed you he knows more than you! Look now why we should not hold on to some players toooo long! That would have cost the Seahawks a TON of $$$$ for someone that is most likely will not play again! And if you say Pete should have traded Earl, What do you think the Seahawks have been trying to do for the last year!
    Teams were in talks about a Earl trade! (80% Earl will never play another snap in the NFL).
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:07 am
  • :snack:
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:45 am
  • I'm with ya Lock, DQ did go into a good situation. But you could say Pete is in a similar situation with a franchise QB and better defense atm that DQ inherited, though DQ had Shanny and much better offensive weapons.

    I don't know man I'm just tired of crappy offense and boring football. If we're going to lose a lot of games, at least be a fun team to watch
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:11 am
  • hoxrox wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    ExBassGuide wrote:In Pete I Trust!


    Hard hitting analysis.

    What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?

    Stick with Cable & Bevell? Replace Bevell with Schotty?

    Sign Eddy Lacey? Cary Williams? Joeckel?

    Drafting Rashard Penny? Ifedi?

    Burning a 1st & your pro-bowl Center on Jimmy Graham, and then proceed to comically misutilize him?

    Letting major UFA's walk in Jimmy Graham & Sheldon Richardson, and then sign bum UFAs that cancel out your comp picks?

    Piss off veteran players like Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman, ET, Michael Bennett?

    Cliff Avril stating publicly he never listened to Pete. (Probably the majority of the team tuned him out.) ?

    Not Signing Earl Thomas or trading him for a draft pick Pick(s) (Piss or get off the pot.) ?

    Letting Okung walk, and proceed to ignore LT for 1.5 seasons? Leaving the QB's blindside unprotected?

    Getting your franchise QB pummeled into the ground for 4 years, with trash O-Lines & a dated scheme?

    Get rid of a good kicker, for spotty kickers?

    The decreased amount of wins for going on 5 consecutive seasons?

    Having only 4 draft picks going into the 2019 NFL Draft when you're supposed to be rebuilding?

    Tell me please, I want to know????


    A lot of these situations sound more like a JS issue than a PC issue. I don't think Pete micro manages or overrides managers, scouts, assistants or players to the extent that you think he does. In fact, he lets "Marshawn be Marshawn" etc. That's just his style.

    But why should he be given a longer leash? Because this is basically a freshmen class. And he's proven his ability to develop young players into future stars. His coaching is proven, his overall formula and philosophy has since 2013 been emulated by many teams in the league.

    The real problem is the level of young talent we currently have on the roster, and not all of that is on Pete.

    "not all of that is on Pete" yes it is. Pete Carroll hired John Schneider personally, and he has complete control over player acquisition. John Schneider can't just pick up players, Pete has to sign off on it. Pete Carroll is intimately involved in the draft process and scouting of players. Everything ultimately goes back on Pete -- he has the final authority on everything. If the way he coaches is any indication then you must know that he isn't much for delegation.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:17 am
  • NJlargent wrote:While I don’t know want to disrupt Fade’s post about the PC woes he did fail to also point out the in game decisions and clock management. But it’s not necessary as he crushed the point.


    Yes, he did.

    The guy is bouncing heads off the pavement in here.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:33 am
  • Fade wrote:
    What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?


    Five years ago, they were in the middle of a Super Bowl campaign and ultimately won the only Super Bowl in franchise history.

    The next year, they returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

    The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.

    Now, we are in a clear transition year after losing a large amount of talent due to injury and contract. During these five years, they have won 10 playoff victories, two NFC champisonships, and a Super Bowl. That is what Carroll has done. No active coach, except Bill Belichick, has accomplished more.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:40 am
  • Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:56 am
  • Good gawd, hawknation. That man had a family.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:59 am
  • Much is made about losing the LOB, but where are they now? Which members are currently playing?

    We hear lots about the Rams and how they are suddenly strong and it must be because of their good drafting. What we don't hear is that before last year they hadn't won more than 7 games in 10 consecutive years, and you have to go back 14 years for their last winning season. In the mean time they traded their first-round pick for 3 first-round picks from Washington. With all that draft capitol even a blind monkey could pick some winners.

    Does anyone here have the patience to go through 14 non-winning seasons? You guys can't even stand a double-digit-wins year unless there's a Super Bowl involved anymore.

    I swear some people here are more entitled than my 13-year-old daughter.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:35 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    Jville wrote:Dissly & McDougald is not many


    And Frank Clark, and Tyler Lockett, and Justin Britt, and DJ Fluker, and Duane Brown, and Justin Coleman, and Chris Carson, and Mike Davis, and Shaquill Griffin, and Tre Flowers, and David Moore, and Nazair Jones, and Marcel Reece, and Mychal Kendricks, and J.R. Sweezy, and a bunch of others who are at least filling spots on the roster as compared to the 2014-2015 drafts AND a boatload of rookies whom it's too soon to judge.

    Not to mention a guy named Russell Wilson, who's been good enough to outweigh quite a few bad decisions.

    If you want to talk about laundry lists, you'd better provide a full and accurate picture. It's not good evaluation to skew the picture in an effort to support a point. You had a good point at one juncture, but you lost it.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:45 pm
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:Good gawd, hawknation. That man had a family.


    Who?
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:03 pm
  • Jville wrote:^^^^^^^^ :177692:
    You've convinced me Fade.

    Image

    Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.


    You have convinced me Jville, your flair for drama is undeniable.

    Why does it have to be about hatred? :roll:

    When you change tires on your car, are you doing so because you hate them or because they served their purpose and they are no longer performing well?

    Talking about how they slid out on a corner is not hate, it is stating facts about their performance.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:08 pm
  • Jeesh, this thread won't die. PC is not going anywhere for at least this season and next. Time to move from denial to acceptance and hope the team keeps improving.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:34 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Jville wrote:^^^^^^^^ :177692:
    You've convinced me Fade.

    Image

    Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.


    You have convinced me Jville, your flair for drama is undeniable.

    Why does it have to be about hatred? :roll:

    When you change tires on your car, are you doing so because you hate them or because they served their purpose and they are no longer performing well?

    Talking about how they slid out on a corner is not hate, it is stating facts about their performance.


    Terrible analogy. Who would belittle living breathing human beings with a comparison to discarding an inanimate wear item like tires?

    :177692: You've convinced me Seymore. You have no idea what Pete Carroll's program is all about. Stick with tires and things.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:42 pm
  • Jville wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Jville wrote:^^^^^^^^ :177692:
    You've convinced me Fade.

    Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.


    You have convinced me Jville, your flair for drama is undeniable.

    Why does it have to be about hatred? :roll:

    When you change tires on your car, are you doing so because you hate them or because they served their purpose and they are no longer performing well?

    Talking about how they slid out on a corner is not hate, it is stating facts about their performance.


    Terrible analogy. Who would belittle living breathing human beings with a comparison to discarding an inanimate wear item like tires?

    :177692: You've convinced me Seymore. You have no idea what Pete Carroll's program is all about. Stick with tires and things.


    Wrong.

    It's all about the ball (and rescuing misfits), and the time for the grand turnover is drawing near.

    Acceptance my friend.

    You talk like the Michelin man has no feelings. Pretty insensitive bro. :cry:
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:12 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:What we don't hear is that before last year they hadn't won more than 7 games in 10 consecutive years, and you have to go back 14 years for their last winning season. In the mean time they traded their first-round pick for 3 first-round picks from Washington. With all that draft capitol even a blind monkey could pick some winners.

    I swear some people here are more entitled than my 13-year-old daughter.

    I agree and this is probably the main reason why I'm not as disgruntled as a few here. The Rams are currently all-in utilizing rookie contracts they picked up by sucking for a long time now, and they doubled down by trading their first round pick last year for Cooks. The NFL is designed for parity and the same forces that helped them put together a great roster will be dismantling it soon enough.

    I don't even really root again them. The division is more fun when it's good and I follow the NFL because it's fun.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:14 pm
  • If Pete goes I think it will be similar to Andy Reid leaving Philly. Not that Pete has spent that same amount of time as Reid, but just a simple change of scenery. Sometimes you just have to move on. Everyone knew Reid was a great coach, but sometimes you overstay your welcome. I kind of get that feeling with Pete.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:22 pm
  • Steve2222 wrote:
    TreeRon wrote:
    Steve2222 wrote:
    hawksincebirth wrote:I’m talking Peterson , you said several times he WOULD NEVER MAKE THE JUMP


    Peterson is a college guy. He also likes to keep a low profile and out of the spotlight. Which is why he’s turned down offers from powerhouse schools. Washington was the perfect fit for him as it was a jump to a power 5, yet still pretty isolated from everyone else.

    There’s no getting out of the spotlight for him being in the NFL. He will be scrutinized every loss no matter what team he coaches. To some people that’s worth more than money.


    There's no more isolated NFL franchise than Seattle. Take away the last few years w/the LOB and Pete and most people thought/think Seattle is in Alaska or Siberia or Canada or something. The entire Northwest is more flyover than the flyover States. (Most of us like it that way.)

    Pete Carroll has to leave one way or another so maybe we'll find out within the next 5 years or so.


    I get that. But NFL jobs are more scrutinized than college jobs outside of a few college programs.

    This is seattle , there’s no harsh media here ? They don’t ask pete hard questions ever. He’d be fine here.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:30 pm
  • ExBassGuide wrote:For everyone that said "PAY THE MAN" about Earl, Pete just showed you he knows more than you! Look now why we should not hold on to some players toooo long! That would have cost the Seahawks a TON of $$$$ for someone that is most likely will not play again! And if you say Pete should have traded Earl, What do you think the Seahawks have been trying to do for the last year!
    Teams were in talks about a Earl trade! (80% Earl will never play another snap in the NFL).

    80% lmao
    World champs sb48

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    Wait, MizzouHawkGal is a DUDE??
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:10 pm

Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:18 pm
  • NJlargent wrote:While I don’t know want to disrupt Fade’s post about the PC woes he did fail to also point out the in game decisions and clock management. But it’s not necessary as he crushed the point.

    You're right.

    Too many problems to list :D . And then we got people like
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:36 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.

    They returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

    The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.


    I agree. In Ruskell we trust.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:38 pm
  • Pete has always needed better players than the other team to win.

    He does not have them now. So he isn't winning as much.

    It really is that simple.

    As it is, with the roster he had, winning one SB, losing another and literally doing nothing else in the playoffs for close to 4 years more...is underperforming. Which is another thing Pete is known for.

    But given that - what he has done in the past is immaterial. It is what he is doing now and will do that matters.

    Pete isn't going to take this team to the playoffs this year. Period.

    He is a defensive minded coach whose best resources are now on offense. So he can take an average to below average defense and make it slightly above average. But he is also going to disregard our best offensive options because he is too old to change.

    He makes defenses better and offenses worse. Much worse. So he cannot win with an offensive first team and he won't even try.

    Also, he isn't going to take them to the playoffs next year. Not with this brand and style of football. Not dragging a recalcitrant Wilson through the mud and derailing what made him successful in the first place.

    I imagine after that Wilson gets into a fight with the Hawks about tagging and that becomes the excuse for why he cannot reach the playoffs then.

    Pete has gotten old, and his football has gotten dated. Eventually, the choice between Wilson or Pete is going to be made for us.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:46 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.

    They returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

    The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.


    I agree. In Ruskell we trust.


    Ruskell was a not a coach, did not win a Super Bowl, and the team did not have half the success that Carroll and Schneider have achieved.

    Your “what has Carroll done in the last five years” whine is oblivious.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:14 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:Our fan base leaves the impression that we are petulant fools with whinny threads like this.

    They returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

    The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.


    I agree. In Ruskell we trust.


    Ruskell was a not a coach, did not win a Super Bowl, and the team did not have half the success that Carroll and Schneider have achieved.

    Your “what has Carroll done in the last five years” whine is oblivious.


    Image

    The same logic applies. When Ruskell was questioned 10 yrs ago.

    You had the apologists coming out of the woodwork.

    -> "You're spoiled", "Stop whining", "Insert insult here".
    -> "He brought us to our 1st superbowl!"
    -> "His teams made the playoffs 3 straight years, a franchise first."
    -> "2008, the team was too injured, this year doesn't count.", etc.

    Sound familiar ?

    But when the body of evidence begins to mount over the course of time. I think the last 5 seasons ('14-'18) would suffice. It's not hard to see what the problem is.
    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/1/17921494/pete-carroll-might-be-holding-the-seattle-seahawks-back
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:39 pm
  • L-ville wrote:^^^^^^^^ :177692:
    You've convinced me Fade.

    Your hatred for Pete Carroll is undeniable.


    I love how you confuse truth with hate. :mrgreen: :irishdrinkers:

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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:51 pm
  • Fade wrote:The same logic applies. When Ruskell was questioned 10 yrs ago.

    You had the apologists coming out of the woodwork.

    -> "You're spoiled", "Stop whining", "Insert insult here".
    -> "He brought us to our 1st superbowl!"
    -> "His teams made the playoffs 3 straight years, a franchise first."
    -> "2008, the team was too injured, this year doesn't count.", etc.

    Sound familiar ?

    But when the body of evidence begins to mount over the course of time. I think the last 5 seasons ('14-'18) would suffice. It's not hard to see what the problem is.
    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/1/17921494/pete-carroll-might-be-holding-the-seattle-seahawks-back

    Speaking of logic, don't get caught up in false dilemma. You look at the record over the past couple of years and lay the blame ate Pete's feet. That's one of many possible explanations. An unusual frequency of injuries to key personnel is another possible explanation, but that's not explored because it doesn't support your narrative.

    The housecleaning came because Pete lost control. That's one explanation. Another is that players get older and tend to have more injuries as they age. Maybe it's time to move on because it's time to move on.

    And now "Sound familiar"? Carroll = Ruskell is one explanation. Another is that you cherry pick the parallels to make it look similar when in fact there are as many or more areas of difference than similarity. For example, Ruskell inherited a team that only needed a small bit of help on the defense to get it over the line. Pete inherited a team that won 4 games the previous season, and even then managed to coach it to the playoffs.

    But again, it's easier to apply a false dilemma than entertain the additional factors, because it fits your narrative.

    So when applying logic, use real logic, not false logic.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:12 pm
  • Perhaps Pete needs to be reigned in a bit like Holmgren was. When Holmgren was just a coach, and not wearing the GM hat also, the Hawks played better football. Currently, it looks like Pete has too much on his plate, and too small of a fork.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:16 pm
  • I dont want him fired but it will be refreshing to have a new faces so we can have new arguments about why they should fire the next group.

    The same old discussion gets old. Its all been said.
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:47 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:Speaking of logic, don't get caught up in false dilemma. You look at the record over the past couple of years and lay the blame ate Pete's feet. That's one of many possible explanations. An unusual frequency of injuries to key personnel is another possible explanation, but that's not explored because it doesn't support your narrative.

    The housecleaning came because Pete lost control. That's one explanation. Another is that players get older and tend to have more injuries as they age. Maybe it's time to move on because it's time to move on.

    And now "Sound familiar"? Carroll = Ruskell is one explanation. Another is that you cherry pick the parallels to make it look similar when in fact there are as many or more areas of difference than similarity. For example, Ruskell inherited a team that only needed a small bit of help on the defense to get it over the line. Pete inherited a team that won 4 games the previous season, and even then managed to coach it to the playoffs.

    But again, it's easier to apply a false dilemma than entertain the additional factors, because it fits your narrative.

    So when applying logic, use real logic, not false logic.


    1) :34853_doh: My point about Ruskell is "blind faith", and how it makes people look foolish. That point sailed over your head as well.

    2) Fact : Pete Carroll is in charge of the whole org. when it pertains to football operations. Only Paul Allen can tell him no. (Paul remains mostly hands off.)

    The Problem is either -

    A) Pete Carroll has made a lot of poor decisions in UFAs, Trades, Draft Picks. Offensive Philosophy, Coaching, Game management, Hiring & Firing of Coaches, and handling of the lockeroom. Leading to a net negative downward trend for a half-decade with no end in sight.

    -or-

    B) Pete Carroll deferred to his underlings and remained mostly hands-off, standing by and watching his crew under-perform as the ship sank. Leading to a net negative downward trend for a half-decade with no end in sight.

    Maybe he is guilty of both.

    At the end of the day though either choice leads to Pete Carroll being at fault. He is the skipper of the ship.

    Conclusion -

    Pete Carroll is no longer capable (for whatever reason that might be) to be in charge of football operations. If he would like to remain as the Head Coach, he must do so in a reduced role. Where he is just the Head Coach, and focuses primarily on defense.


    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/1/17921494/pete-carroll-might-be-holding-the-seattle-seahawks-back
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Re: Fire Pete
Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:53 pm
  • seedhawk wrote:Perhaps Pete needs to be reigned in a bit like Holmgren was. When Holmgren was just a coach, and not wearing the GM hat also, the Hawks played better football. Currently, it looks like Pete has too much on his plate, and too small of a fork.


    This has been my point the whole time. Yet get branded a "hater". :mrgreen:

    The big problem is, I don't think Pete will accept a reduced role.

    Regardless at his advanced age (oldest coach in the league.) With only 1 yr remaining on his contract he won't be here much longer. He will either get a 1 yr extension in the off-season to avoid being a lame duck. Or he will be fired.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:40 pm
  • Well, all of ye of little faith, are we still firing Pete and John and trading Russ?
    ...and don't forget Shotty, he's a bum too, right?
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:17 pm
  • Unfair thread necro.

    People have emotions after a win or a loss, and what someone may feel after a bad loss may not be the same way they feel after a solid win. They are allowed to change their minds. That's often in fact the purpose of constructive discussion. You don't make a solid argument, get someone to agree with you, then slam him for being inconsistent.

    This is exactly why thread necromancy is bad.

    It would be better to start a new topic like "What do all you haters think now? Nya Nya" or something equally as enlightened.

    Please note I am not one of the afore-mentioned "haters" - I've been consistently supportive of PC and the front office - I'm just against thread necromancy because it's evil.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:34 pm
  • Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:34 pm
  • As long as we are at worst one game out of the Wild Card playoff spot, I'm fine with Pete. I expect playoffs every season, but I understand we are retooling/rebuilding.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:35 pm
  • rcaido wrote:Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.



    I would love to trade RW.

    To a non contender playoff team 2 1st round picks.

    To a contender playoff team like Jags 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:37 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:Unfair thread necro.

    People have emotions after a win or a loss, and what someone may feel after a bad loss may not be the same way they feel after a solid win. They are allowed to change their minds. That's often in fact the purpose of constructive discussion. You don't make a solid argument, get someone to agree with you, then slam him for being inconsistent.

    This is exactly why thread necromancy is bad.

    It would be better to start a new topic like "What do all you haters think now? Nya Nya" or something equally as enlightened.

    Please note I am not one of the afore-mentioned "haters" - I've been consistently supportive of PC and the front office - I'm just against thread necromancy because it's evil.


    That’s BS. Some people are constant negative nancies that seem to derive pleasure from trashing everything around them. We shouldn’t be “giving them a break” for being emotional after a loss. Necrobumps are useful to teach those people perspective and to learn to temper their negativity. Otherwise they persist in posting extremely down hearted and straight slanderous comments about players and coaches with proven track records.

    I wish more posts were necro bumped to point out the short sighted behavior of some of our fans. The number of overly negative posters to overly positive posters is heavily skewed to negativity imo and a correction is not a bad thing for anyone. Positive folks will get tired of defending themselves and just leave otherwise.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:39 pm
  • poly1274 wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.



    I would love to trade RW.

    To a non contender playoff team 2 1st round picks.

    To a contender playoff team like Jags 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks.


    Of course you would. Let's get rid of a hof qb still in his prime. Makes perfect sense.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:39 pm
  • poly1274 wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Nope it's good to see necro stupidity by ungrateful fans. People should keep bumping this idiotic thread...just as bad as trading wilson.



    I would love to trade RW.

    To a non contender playoff team 2 1st round picks.

    To a contender playoff team like Jags 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks.



    Until there are 32 starting quality QBs in the league, you don’t trade your franchise.
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:39 pm
  • This thread has been quiet since Oct 4th, quite sure it will reignite once we lost another ugly game.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ++ You can call me a homer, but I am not the only one ++
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:38 pm
  • Well I would say his philosophy on the running game is still Valid look at us since we can run, look at the Rams since they can run, Vikings were good last year because they could run.


    We all or mostly were wondering what the hell they were doing bringing in these F.A. and putting them on IR, well they are playing and helping now, we also wanted to know why none of the DB's were playing yet we drafted yet looking now we have Thompson and Flowers and Griffin playing.


    So it's safe to say they had a good plan, just because we don't know how they are going to implement things does'nt make it wrong. There has been a lot of Filed Gull shit lately that has been condemning Pete and this team, which makes them anti Pete it seems so anything they have to say I am now looking at as biased against our F.O.


    Pete has made mistakes as has every other GM, Coach, President of operations. He is to loyal and stays with some stuff to long out of that loyalty both with players and Coaches, the mixed message about always compete and the accountabilty aspect was what pissed players off. Cable and Bevell were not held to those same standards and throwing Lockette under the bus was unforgivable by the players.
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