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Fire Pete

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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:34 pm
  • Pete will be here until his contracts up then there will be a decision . He could also get an extension in the off season if this team continues to play well this year. When I say well I mean finishing 8-8 or better. Considering the massive turnover we had I think they have done well in finding quality young talent to replace them and putting this team on a track to get back to the playoff's if not this year then certainly next year. The offense and defense are getting better every game .
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Re: Fire Pete
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:50 pm
  • hawkcrazzed wrote:That's right the most wins for us an all. Pack his bags the game has passed him. Lets get some new
    blood in here who can actually scheme. Just so I don't have to see the 3rd and 1 and pass or empty.
    This team is going down the crapper and he is the head. Its time to move on. Start the hating rage on.
    But its true and yall know it.


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    Not hating, you just don't understand the game and our HC. When you can't' run, you are stuck with throwing the ball more than you should. We lost Marshawn, the Rawls, then Carson.
    Now that we can run, we win 3 of the last 4.
    Obvious to me a lack of patience and the vision to see improvement.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:21 am
  • well, carroll is what he is, so... there's that...
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:49 am
  • When I put this post up in was in total frustration. After watching this team do the same crap they had been
    doing.We now look like a competent offense. When u watch this team going down the backside of the mountain. With
    pete doing his happy go luck bs. Then ya it gets me so upset that i was/am ready for him to go off into the sunset. This team is showing promise but these teams are the bad ones. Yes the rams game we did well but they haven't had hard competition yet either so we don't know who they are. Reguardless i will still cheer them. Just pointing out pete isn't a
    damn saint. If he can turn it around fine but if not SEE YA.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:12 am
  • Ahhhh the I told you so’s after beating a horrible team , lol
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:16 am
  • hawksincebirth wrote:Ahhhh the I told you so’s after beating a horrible team , lol


    Yep.

    And, er, almost beating the best in the league.

    And beating the Cowboys.

    And the Cardinals.

    And putting up over 150 yards rushing in several games in a row.

    And RW getting 3 TDs.

    And. . . nevermind.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:47 am
  • Scored on first drive checked.
    Scores in redzone checked.

    Fire Pete, he is a must fire.

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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:53 am
  • hawkcrazzed wrote:When I put this post up in was in total frustration. After watching this team do the same crap they had been doing.We now look like a competent offense.


    So maybe don't call for heads after Week 4?


    hawkcrazzed wrote: If he can turn it around fine but if not SEE YA.


    That's a completely fair sentiment - but we have to give him TIME to turn it around.

    Tim Ruskell was given the time to reload the roster. After the time elapsed, he was sent packing. Pete hasn't had enough time yet. And evidence is now building that he is indeed rebuilding very well.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:15 am
  • Dumping Pete Carroll and trading Wilson for draft picks is like trading a winning lottery ticket for 2 more lottery tickets.

    Just dumb.

    If we continue on this current course, and we certainly may regress for all I know, then we will be a solid playoff contender with a good young defensive core and a franchise QB. We will be a contender for greater things next year if we can re-sign Fluker, Clark, Coleman and find the next KJ in the draft.

    Of course the next game we lose will burst everyone's bubble and we will see the fire Pete crowd back in full force. Which is too bad. I don't think the franchise has had a better coach for balling out and being in every game. We've been blown out maybe 5 times in his tenure. Seahawks used to get blown out regularly in the past.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am
  • Pete has a great scheme and philosophy provided the talent is there and they bought in.

    I will say his weakness will always be his game on the wire decisions as well as when he chooses to or not to throw a challenge flag.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:34 am
  • ZagHawk wrote:Pete has a great scheme and philosophy provided the talent is there and they bought in.

    I will say his weakness will always be his game on the wire decisions as well as when he chooses to or not to throw a challenge flag.


    Yep.

    I think Pete's reminded everyone this year what a brilliant defensive scheme teacher he is, especially in the defensive backfield. He's rounded a bunch of young players with a couple veterans into the #7 ranked defense right now.

    I was on Pete's back a lot early in the season, mainly because of how poorly the offense was playing, and Russell seemed lost. But Pete's proven to me that he's still a great teacher, and his players continue to learn and get better as the season progresses.

    That's a sign of a great coach.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:34 am
  • hawksincebirth wrote:Ahhhh the I told you so’s after beating a horrible team , lol


    About as predictable as the posts flippantly dismissing a thorough butt whooping as meaningless because it wasn't against the Rams or the Patriots.

    lol
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 am
  • Chortling over beating a stripped down Raiders team that is being derailed by its own FO in order to make it easier to move?

    A bit premature.

    If this team beats the Lions and Chargers? Well they had better.

    Frankly, this team got a gift this year - SF lost their starting QB...which gives us 2 extra easy wins. So a 7-9 team on paper should be able to get 9-7 given that gift to the schedule.

    That isn't the reason to get rid of Pete. The reason is going to be if you think Wilson can be a top tier QB, because he won't be a top tier QB under Pete with this philosophy and this roster. Especially if we gut the team further to pay Wilson his bigger contract. (Again, I still don't believe Wilson will stay here anyway...but if you want to win with Wilson, you better find him a coach that can take advantage of his abilities).

    Now, if they beat the Lions & Chargers and then beat GB? Then the playoffs are in play, because we should expect to beat the 49ers twice and the Cardinals should be a win at the end of the year.

    But beating a toothless Raiders team changes nothing. We know the Raiders are trying to move the team, so they are trying to destroy the loyalty of their fanbase in order to make that move easier. We lived through this when the Sonics were trying to move and drafting groups of 7'2" centers that were 107lbs each.

    It should surprise nobody that we beat up on the Raiders. But it doesn't mean anything.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:32 am
  • You keep saying that about the 9ers, who were not lighting things up with JG.

    People are not "chortling" about beating the Raiders. The Hawks struggled against the Cardinals so any win is not something to dismiss regardless of the point trying to be made.


    They are excited about the progress they see from week to week. Progress initiated by the coach
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:37 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Chortling over beating a stripped down Raiders team that is being derailed by its own FO in order to make it easier to move?

    A bit premature.

    If this team beats the Lions and Chargers? Well they had better.

    Frankly, this team got a gift this year - SF lost their starting QB...which gives us 2 extra easy wins. So a 7-9 team on paper should be able to get 9-7 given that gift to the schedule.

    That isn't the reason to get rid of Pete. The reason is going to be if you think Wilson can be a top tier QB, because he won't be a top tier QB under Pete with this philosophy and this roster. Especially if we gut the team further to pay Wilson his bigger contract. (Again, I still don't believe Wilson will stay here anyway...but if you want to win with Wilson, you better find him a coach that can take advantage of his abilities).

    Now, if they beat the Lions & Chargers and then beat GB? Then the playoffs are in play, because we should expect to beat the 49ers twice and the Cardinals should be a win at the end of the year.

    But beating a toothless Raiders team changes nothing. We know the Raiders are trying to move the team, so they are trying to destroy the loyalty of their fanbase in order to make that move easier. We lived through this when the Sonics were trying to move and drafting groups of 7'2" centers that were 107lbs each.

    It should surprise nobody that we beat up on the Raiders. But it doesn't mean anything.


    The first two games of this season was terrible, but the last two games? Wilson played some good ball, his migration to pocket passer with occasional runs, based on these two games, is unexpectedly good.

    I would like to know, in your opinion, which coach, or OC will give WIlson the best performance?

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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:38 am
  • If they finish with 10 wins I’d be on the he earns another year. If they finish with less I’d cut bait. Looking at the schedule I see 4 wins they should get so they have to win another 2 games against Minn,Rams,Packers, Panthers,KC, Chargers. Gonna be tough to get to 10 imo.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:40 am
  • toffee wrote:I would like to know, in your opinion, which coach, or OC will give WIlson the best performance?


    Sean McVay, Andy Reid, Doug Peterson

    With that said I know they are not available. You pick up and coming OC from a similar mold and hope he works out.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:43 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Chortling over beating a stripped down Raiders team that is being derailed by its own FO in order to make it easier to move?.


    Couple things;

    1. The Hawks did what good teams do to bad teams, beat them soundly.

    2. Score aside, what we saw yesterday was an ASS KICKING, even Gruden said they got their ass kicked all over the field in every phase of the game.

    If #2 isn't a good sign, then I don't know what is. What we've lacked the past two years is the bullying, on both sides of the ball......and what we've seen the past two weeks is that bully reappear to dictate and beat teams physically.

    THAT'S what I was most impressed with yesterday, I saw the bully back, on both sides of the ball. Steamrolling over defenses and knocking receivers clean out of the game.........which makes four receivers knocked out in two games if you're keeping score at home kids.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:04 am
  • That is the question.

    Were the Raiders trying to get back up and we beat them down?

    Or

    Were the Raiders just lying down in the first place?

    That is the dilemma. We won't know until after the Lions and Chargers games.

    If this team is truly taking a big next step forward - they have to win those games.

    As Largent pointed out, we are beating the bad teams. We have almost all our wins courtesy of the 'sisters of the poor'. We have one win against a decent team, beating the Cowboys. But we have games against the Panthers and Packers that will decide this question.

    (Whether the Cowboys are actually good or not, or the Jaguars literally just are imploding because of Bortles is a question that needs answers too. But based on what Richard is doing with that defense - I expect they might be decent).

    The Chargers are a team we tend to struggle with, but if we beat them that would be important. I do think for us to get a chance to go to the playoffs we almost have to beat the Chargers.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:38 am
  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    toffee wrote:I would like to know, in your opinion, which coach, or OC will give WIlson the best performance?


    Sean McVay, Andy Reid, Doug Peterson

    With that said I know they are not available. You pick up and coming OC from a similar mold and hope he works out.



    This is like selling a $5000 winning lottery ticket to by 5000 tickets on next years draw in order to "win it all".

    Pete Carroll has a proven track record of developing great teams at college and pro level, winning the top prize and looks to be repeating that once again. And you are wanting to take a chance on an unproven OC from a pass happy offense?
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:49 am
  • Can't take much from the Raiders win beyond just enjoying it. They suck and are clearly calling it in these days.

    Next couple games will really determine what level of team the Seahawks are.

    The teams is improved no doubt and that's great to see.

    How much remains unknown at this time.

    As for Pete, we won't return to a legit playoff threat type team until he's gone
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:19 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:Can't take much from the Raiders win beyond just enjoying it. They suck and are clearly calling it in these days.

    Next couple games will really determine what level of team the Seahawks are.

    The teams is improved no doubt and that's great to see.

    How much remains unknown at this time.

    As for Pete, we won't return to a legit playoff threat type team until he's gone


    So, who would you want to replace Pete? Who could return the Hawks to “a legit playoff threat”?


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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:22 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:That is the question.

    Were the Raiders trying to get back up and we beat them down?

    Or

    Were the Raiders just lying down in the first place?

    That is the dilemma. We won't know until after the Lions and Chargers games.

    If this team is truly taking a big next step forward - they have to win those games.

    As Largent pointed out, we are beating the bad teams. We have almost all our wins courtesy of the 'sisters of the poor'. We have one win against a decent team, beating the Cowboys. But we have games against the Panthers and Packers that will decide this question.

    (Whether the Cowboys are actually good or not, or the Jaguars literally just are imploding because of Bortles is a question that needs answers too. But based on what Richard is doing with that defense - I expect they might be decent).

    The Chargers are a team we tend to struggle with, but if we beat them that would be important. I do think for us to get a chance to go to the playoffs we almost have to beat the Chargers.
    abusing bad teams is the very foundation of a good team; “good” teams played down to opponent level usually don’t go places.


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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:30 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:
    That is the dilemma. We won't know until after the Lions and Chargers games.

    If this team is truly taking a big next step forward - they have to win those games..


    For sure, we'll know a lot about the Hawks over the next month..............but I like what I've seen the past two weeks, on both sides of the ball.

    I already thought we were in a re-build, so all I ask during a rebuild is progress and signs that we're going in the right direction, and the past two weeks I've seen that.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:06 pm
  • Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.

    It is a risk either way.

    But it is extremely unlikely that Pete continues to coach for 3 more years.

    I hate watching some of the offenses that Pete has shoved onto us, so it is hard to be unbiased here. But we have a giant 30M a year bet we have to make and we are going to have to determine if it makes sense before that bet has to be made.

    I think Pete can probably 7-9 or 9-7 this team for a few years, with some 10 win and 7 win season mixed in. I don't see him doing anything effective in the playoffs. But again, how long before he is gone anyway?

    Wilson is either a guy that is being held back by Pete's offense or a guy that has a lot of flaws being masked by it. #1 being true would find Wilson a worthwhile $30M a year investment. #2 being true would be close to a disaster that killed our cap and held this team back for years if we locked in Wilson at $30M+ year with giant chunks of it guaranteed.

    We have no way of knowing what we do have until Pete moves on. But what we do know is that Pete is likely not going to be here long regardless. So the time we have now is one of the times we have to determine if this can be a Steeleresque type of team.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:17 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.
    .


    Maybe, maybe not.

    Maybe Pete knows that Russell is who Russell is, and that's a very smart tough game manager type QB that thrives best when given a great run game to use play action to get the ball downfield, of which Russell DOES VERY WELL.

    In a vacuum in another dimension I'd love to see what Andy Reid or Peterson in Philly could do with Russell.........but maybe they'd also find out that Russell has some very real limitations to his game that they can't crack, and he's best served to be in an offense like this where he's not expected to carry an offense.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:27 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.
    .


    Maybe, maybe not.

    Maybe Pete knows that Russell is who Russell is, and that's a very smart tough game manager type QB that thrives best when given a great run game to use play action to get the ball downfield, of which Russell DOES VERY WELL.

    In a vacuum in another dimension I'd love to see what Andy Reid or Peterson in Philly could do with Russell.........but maybe they'd also find out that Russell has some very real limitations to his game that they can't crack, and he's best served to be in an offense like this where he's not expected to carry an offense.


    If Pete and John believe Wilson is a game manager and gave him an Arron Rodgers contract (-$1,000 per year), then they both need to be strung up by the balls and tortured.

    Do you even know what a "game manager" is? :roll:

    It is a derogatory name given to a below average QB that is only good enough to not screw things up. :177692: :141847_bnono: :roll:

    You are either a franchise QB or a game manager, you cannot be both!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:31 pm
  • Has there ever been a top 5 QB that's a game manager?

    Didn't Wilson led the league in TD's last year?

    Didn't Wilson have the most 4th quarter TD's in NFL history?
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:33 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.

    It is a risk either way.

    But it is extremely unlikely that Pete continues to coach for 3 more years.

    I hate watching some of the offenses that Pete has shoved onto us, so it is hard to be unbiased here. But we have a giant 30M a year bet we have to make and we are going to have to determine if it makes sense before that bet has to be made.

    I think Pete can probably 7-9 or 9-7 this team for a few years, with some 10 win and 7 win season mixed in. I don't see him doing anything effective in the playoffs. But again, how long before he is gone anyway?

    Wilson is either a guy that is being held back by Pete's offense or a guy that has a lot of flaws being masked by it. #1 being true would find Wilson a worthwhile $30M a year investment. #2 being true would be close to a disaster that killed our cap and held this team back for years if we locked in Wilson at $30M+ year with giant chunks of it guaranteed.

    We have no way of knowing what we do have until Pete moves on. But what we do know is that Pete is likely not going to be here long regardless. So the time we have now is one of the times we have to determine if this can be a Steeleresque type of team.
    again, who do you want to replace Pete that will feee Wilson and win that super bowl ?


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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:35 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.
    .


    Maybe, maybe not.

    Maybe Pete knows that Russell is who Russell is, and that's a very smart tough game manager type QB that thrives best when given a great run game to use play action to get the ball downfield, of which Russell DOES VERY WELL.

    In a vacuum in another dimension I'd love to see what Andy Reid or Peterson in Philly could do with Russell.........but maybe they'd also find out that Russell has some very real limitations to his game that they can't crack, and he's best served to be in an offense like this where he's not expected to carry an offense.


    If Pete and John believe Wilson is a game manager and gave him an Arron Rodgers contract (-$1,000 per year), then they both need to be strung up by the balls and tortured.

    Do you even know what a "game manager" is? :roll:

    It is a derogatory name given to a below average QB that is only good enough to not screw things up. :177692: :141847_bnono: :roll:

    You are either a franchise QB or a game manager, you cannot be both!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager


    Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.

    What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

    So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:35 pm
  • rcaido wrote:Has there ever been a top 5 QB that's a game manager?

    Didn't Wilson led the league in TD's last year?

    Didn't Wilson have the most 4th quarter TD's in NFL history?


    Someone understands the gravity of the name calling / moniker Wilson gets tagged with by people that will never give him credit due to his size. :pukeface:
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:42 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.
    .


    Maybe, maybe not.

    Maybe Pete knows that Russell is who Russell is, and that's a very smart tough game manager type QB that thrives best when given a great run game to use play action to get the ball downfield, of which Russell DOES VERY WELL.

    In a vacuum in another dimension I'd love to see what Andy Reid or Peterson in Philly could do with Russell.........but maybe they'd also find out that Russell has some very real limitations to his game that they can't crack, and he's best served to be in an offense like this where he's not expected to carry an offense.


    If Pete and John believe Wilson is a game manager and gave him an Arron Rodgers contract (-$1,000 per year), then they both need to be strung up by the balls and tortured.

    Do you even know what a "game manager" is? :roll:

    It is a derogatory name given to a below average QB that is only good enough to not screw things up. :177692: :141847_bnono: :roll:

    You are either a franchise QB or a game manager, you cannot be both!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager


    Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.

    What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

    So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.


    Well.....that does NOT mean that is what Wilson is. That is only what Pete is making him into because of his philosophy doesn't allow for dynamic offenses. That is also why Wilson + Pete = fail when it comes to taking even larger % of the cap then ever. Pete will never get that value from Wilson, not because of Russell's limits, but because of Pete's. One of them has to go (Russ @ $33M that is), and I say Pete or Pete needs to evolve which I don't see happening.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:48 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.

    It is a risk either way.

    But it is extremely unlikely that Pete continues to coach for 3 more years.

    I hate watching some of the offenses that Pete has shoved onto us, so it is hard to be unbiased here. But we have a giant 30M a year bet we have to make and we are going to have to determine if it makes sense before that bet has to be made.

    I think Pete can probably 7-9 or 9-7 this team for a few years, with some 10 win and 7 win season mixed in. I don't see him doing anything effective in the playoffs. But again, how long before he is gone anyway?

    Wilson is either a guy that is being held back by Pete's offense or a guy that has a lot of flaws being masked by it. #1 being true would find Wilson a worthwhile $30M a year investment. #2 being true would be close to a disaster that killed our cap and held this team back for years if we locked in Wilson at $30M+ year with giant chunks of it guaranteed.

    We have no way of knowing what we do have until Pete moves on. But what we do know is that Pete is likely not going to be here long regardless. So the time we have now is one of the times we have to determine if this can be a Steeleresque type of team.


    Likely Wilson is someone in between. He's not Brady, Brees or Rodgers. But he's better than Cam Newton or Kirk Cousins. Likely the best comparison is Matt Ryan. Which makes him a 30 million a year QB. And I'm good with that. Wilson is clutch and that is a huge attribute to a QB. Pay him his money and keep the defense young and hungry. Pay your linemen and draft well in the secondary.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:49 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Well.....that does NOT mean that is what Wilson is. That is only what Pete is making him into because of his philosophy doesn't allow for dynamic offenses. That is also why Wilson + Pete = fail when it comes to taking even larger % of the cap then ever. Pete will never get that value from Wilson, not because of Russell's limits, but because of Pete's. One of them has to go (Russ @ $33M that is), and I say Pete or Pete needs to evolve which I don't see happening.


    I tend to agree with you, but like I said above we wouldn't know for sure until we see Russell with another coach/coordinator combo.

    I'm 50/50 right now on keep the Russell/Pete train rolling. As a lifelong Hawk fan, I know how much it sucks to have a revolving door of crap coaches and crap QB's year after year.

    To let Russell and/or Pete go is a gamble I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on just yet. If we draft another young stud QB that can step in and run the offense well again when hopefully the D gets back to dominating?

    Only then would I be 100% confident in letting Russell go. But we don't have that QB, so I can't commit to that.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:56 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.
    .


    Maybe, maybe not.

    Maybe Pete knows that Russell is who Russell is, and that's a very smart tough game manager type QB that thrives best when given a great run game to use play action to get the ball downfield, of which Russell DOES VERY WELL.

    In a vacuum in another dimension I'd love to see what Andy Reid or Peterson in Philly could do with Russell.........but maybe they'd also find out that Russell has some very real limitations to his game that they can't crack, and he's best served to be in an offense like this where he's not expected to carry an offense.


    If Pete and John believe Wilson is a game manager and gave him an Arron Rodgers contract (-$1,000 per year), then they both need to be strung up by the balls and tortured.

    Do you even know what a "game manager" is? :roll:

    It is a derogatory name given to a below average QB that is only good enough to not screw things up. :177692: :141847_bnono: :roll:

    You are either a franchise QB or a game manager, you cannot be both!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager


    Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.

    What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

    So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.


    I guess game mangers dont win games either?

    Interesting stat here...

    Wilson has 19 4th quarter comebacks and 24gwd in his young career

    Already more then the god Erin Rodgers

    13 4th comeback and 20 gwd

    Aslo Pete & Wilson combo has the 2nd best record since they been with each other. Yeah lets get rid of these non producers.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:01 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Well.....that does NOT mean that is what Wilson is. That is only what Pete is making him into because of his philosophy doesn't allow for dynamic offenses. That is also why Wilson + Pete = fail when it comes to taking even larger % of the cap then ever. Pete will never get that value from Wilson, not because of Russell's limits, but because of Pete's. One of them has to go (Russ @ $33M that is), and I say Pete or Pete needs to evolve which I don't see happening.


    I tend to agree with you, but like I said above we wouldn't know for sure until we see Russell with another coach/coordinator combo.

    I'm 50/50 right now on keep the Russell/Pete train rolling. As a lifelong Hawk fan, I know how much it sucks to have a revolving door of crap coaches and crap QB's year after year.

    To let Russell and/or Pete go is a gamble I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on just yet. If we draft another young stud QB that can step in and run the offense well again when hopefully the D gets back to dominating?

    Only then would I be 100% confident in letting Russell go. But we don't have that QB, so I can't commit to that.


    And because they have done nothing at QB since getting Wilson, Pete himself has failed to see his philosophy of needing a top 3 D to go all the way cannot be achieved with a QB taking the lions share of the cap. It leaves too big of a hole somewhere else because his D will be too expensive (2013 formula worked because Wilson, Wagner, Sherman were all on cheap contracts and he bought a defense) used to be Oline, now it's Dline and DB's but it will always popup somewhere.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:07 pm
  • For folks in the “fire Pete” Brigade, you guys must produce replacement candidates to make your argument legit?


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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:11 pm
  • toffee wrote:For folks in the “fire Pete” Brigade, you guys must produce replacement candidates to make your argument legit?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Im going to fire PC. Then as my second move Im going to lean on JS to produce the best candidate.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:13 pm
  • toffee wrote:For folks in the “fire Pete” Brigade, you guys must produce replacement candidates to make your argument legit?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    These clowns can have a straight flush and would trade in their 9 to try to get a royal flush. Go fish
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:13 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Well.....that does NOT mean that is what Wilson is. That is only what Pete is making him into because of his philosophy doesn't allow for dynamic offenses. That is also why Wilson + Pete = fail when it comes to taking even larger % of the cap then ever. Pete will never get that value from Wilson, not because of Russell's limits, but because of Pete's. One of them has to go (Russ @ $33M that is), and I say Pete or Pete needs to evolve which I don't see happening.


    I tend to agree with you, but like I said above we wouldn't know for sure until we see Russell with another coach/coordinator combo.

    I'm 50/50 right now on keep the Russell/Pete train rolling. As a lifelong Hawk fan, I know how much it sucks to have a revolving door of crap coaches and crap QB's year after year.

    To let Russell and/or Pete go is a gamble I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on just yet. If we draft another young stud QB that can step in and run the offense well again when hopefully the D gets back to dominating?

    Only then would I be 100% confident in letting Russell go. But we don't have that QB, so I can't commit to that.


    And because they have done nothing at QB since getting Wilson, Pete himself has failed to see his philosophy of needing a top 3 D to go all the way cannot be achieved with a QB taking the lions share of the cap. It leaves too big of a hole somewhere else because his D will be too expensive (2013 formula worked because Wilson, Wagner, Sherman were all on cheap contracts and he bought a defense) used to be Oline, now it's Dline and DB's but it will always popup somewhere.


    I would say the bigger problem was the defense taking the lion's share of the cap leaving none for the OL. QB pay is a sunk cost. If you have a QB worth crap you have to pay him. Virtually all other positions are expendable and you could easily say the best route to repeat SB's was to trade Bennett, Earl, Sherm and Kam in 2015 and use the draft capital to build LOB Next Gen and the savings to get some decent OL.

    In the end, I think the biggest thing Pete really screwed up on from 2015-2017 was keeping Tom Cable around. Watching how our line is functioning now and recalling those 2010-2012 Niner teams with Gore, Solari is a really good coach we should have kept to begin with when Pete joined the team.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:15 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    ImTheScientist wrote:
    toffee wrote:I would like to know, in your opinion, which coach, or OC will give WIlson the best performance?


    Sean McVay, Andy Reid, Doug Peterson

    With that said I know they are not available. You pick up and coming OC from a similar mold and hope he works out.



    This is like selling a $5000 winning lottery ticket to by 5000 tickets on next years draw in order to "win it all".

    Pete Carroll has a proven track record of developing great teams at college and pro level, winning the top prize and looks to be repeating that once again. And you are wanting to take a chance on an unproven OC from a pass happy offense?


    Maybe.....maybe not. Worked out pretty well for the Rams and Eagles. Depends on how comfortable you are with risk.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:47 pm
  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    toffee wrote:For folks in the “fire Pete” Brigade, you guys must produce replacement candidates to make your argument legit?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Im going to fire PC. Then as my second move Im going to lean on JS to produce the best candidate.


    What if JS recommends one Pete Carroll? Fire JS? Replace both JS and PC with. ..... ???????


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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:08 pm
  • 3-3 off a 27-3 win and the Fire Pete thread has the most posts today.

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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:37 pm
  • Considering today's event, I don't think it is relevant anymore.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Considering today's event, I don't think it is relevant anymore.


    RIP Mr. Allen,

    Got to wonder with Paul Allen, would the team take a different direction? Would Pete's contract be renewed?

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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:26 pm
  • This might end up being one of his best coaching jobs. The record may not show it at the end ,but to rally the team after all the talent that was lost says alot.

    I applaud him for getting rid of some of the loudmouths and not caving to Earl. And most important to me is playing the game be believes.Thats playing tough physical D and running the ball. In a few years Mcvay will be playing checkers with Martz sniffin each others farts.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:36 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    What has Pete done in the last 5 years to warrant such blind faith?


    Five years ago, they were in the middle of a Super Bowl campaign and ultimately won the only Super Bowl in franchise history.

    The next year, they returned to the Super Bowl and narrowly lost.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 4th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to players like Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham, had one of the best offenses in franchise history, and finished with the #1 scoring defense for the 4th-straight season.

    The next year, they won double digit victories for the 5th-consecutive year, overcame numerous injuries to Russell Wilson that slowed the offense, improved on their record from the prior year, won the NFC West, won a playoff game for the 5th-straight year, and were #1 in scoring defense once again until an Earl Thomas injury ended their streak and derailed the season.

    The next year, they narrowly missed the playoffs due to multiple injuries, won 9 games, and finally fired their offensive coaching staff.

    Now, we are in a clear transition year after losing a large amount of talent due to injury and contract. During these five years, they have won 10 playoff victories, two NFC champisonships, and a Super Bowl. That is what Carroll has done. No active coach, except Bill Belichick, has accomplished more.


    You hit it. I have read several posts pointing out the trend. There is only one direction to go after reaching the pinnacle.
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:45 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Ultimately, the issue with keeping Pete is that you really won't know what you have got with Wilson.
    .


    Maybe, maybe not.

    Maybe Pete knows that Russell is who Russell is, and that's a very smart tough game manager type QB that thrives best when given a great run game to use play action to get the ball downfield, of which Russell DOES VERY WELL.

    In a vacuum in another dimension I'd love to see what Andy Reid or Peterson in Philly could do with Russell.........but maybe they'd also find out that Russell has some very real limitations to his game that they can't crack, and he's best served to be in an offense like this where he's not expected to carry an offense.


    If Pete and John believe Wilson is a game manager and gave him an Arron Rodgers contract (-$1,000 per year), then they both need to be strung up by the balls and tortured.

    Do you even know what a "game manager" is? :roll:

    It is a derogatory name given to a below average QB that is only good enough to not screw things up. :177692: :141847_bnono: :roll:

    You are either a franchise QB or a game manager, you cannot be both!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager


    Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.



    What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

    So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.



    I agree with your definition of a game manager. I also think you can be both and thats what Wilson is IMO. At the end of the game he has the ability to take control and win close games.Not every QB has that ability like Wilson
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:31 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Considering today's event, I don't think it is relevant anymore.


    Exactly. Everything about this topic changes after today's news. Firing Pete would be flat out stupid to talk about now (for me) because my main trust was in Paul to find an answer to our future success. Now....sadly I think the worst case scenario has just occurred. :cry:
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Re: Fire Pete
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:40 pm
  • Hmmm....why is everyone thinking that we will easily beat the 9ers twice? The Cheeseheads are in real battle right now with the 9ers. There are no easy wins in the NFL. (This could all change in the second half.)
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