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WHAT were they thinking, burning that last timeout?

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  • Uncle Si wrote:You contradict yourself a bit sgt. First assuming what PC did is what all coaches would do is also a false pretense argument.

    And while the offense was lingering once the measurement was made the punt team was lining up. Thats what i saw.


    What coach in their right mind wouldn't call a TO when you think the other team's going to punt the ball and you need time to drive down the field?

    Option #1: Call timeout and guarantee an extra 30-35 seconds of time to drive 50 yards for FG.

    Option #2: Don't call TO guessing what your opposing coach is going to do, that may or may not work wasting 30-40 seconds.

    Dude, we'd be CRUCIFYING Pete this week if he didn't call the TO and we didn't have enough time to drive down into FG range.

    You guys are trying to create some mythical scenario where we win the game if not for a mistake by Pete that may or may not be true. Sorry dude, this is too far down the Monday morning QB hindsight rabbit hole for me.

    I deal in facts, and I lined out the ACTUAL reasons we lost the game, not some scenario that didn't happen.
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    Sgt. Largent
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Re: I don't think PC was out-coached
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:00 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    OkieHawk wrote:
    bbsplitter wrote:Almost everyone is acting like if the timeout had not have been called we would have won the game. Calling that timeout was not bad coaching. For all we know, McVay was simply switching from a high-risk fake punt to a lower risk QB sneak, and he was always going to go for it. Carroll might have seen the indications of the fake punt in their personnel as well, and called the time out for that reason, as well as to preserve the clock. If we had let the clock bleed out on that punt we would have had a much lower chance to win, especially with a good punt.

    There is just too much we don't know, and I don't know how PC can be shoved under the bus so hard for that one circumstantial play... Now, the unneeded timeouts because we forget how to call a play sometimes? Those need to be cleaned up.


    It could have gone either way, but saving the timeout was a better decision than wasting it right there. Even if it was a fake punt I'm hoping they would have factored that into their decision. If they didn't then Pete has no reason to keep coaching as the game has moved on without him.


    I think we had a very good chance of stopping the fake punt, because they have a lot of grass between the punter and the line of scrimmage. The qb sneak was the only good option there for getting the first down. Either way, we'll never know what could have been. All I know is what I wanted to see in that moment and what I wanted and what Pete wanted were apparently 2 different things.


    At the time I was calling for Pete's head, but in retrospect that's because of how things turned out, not necessarily because it was a bad decision. Now that I've had time to think about it, the extra time is more important. In 35 seconds you can run 3 pass plays. An incompletion or clocking it stops the clock for the FG attempt you're hoping to try. Only having 1:03, and one time out, with the rush you know is coming from the Rams? I think I want the extra time, there are other ways to stop the clock.

    I do wish they'd have had the foresight to line Bobby up to smash Goff if he attempted a sneak, but hey, can't have everything.
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  • Now that we have you in the rabbit hole, what about calling timeouts before the 2 minute warning?
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:You contradict yourself a bit sgt. First assuming what PC did is what all coaches would do is also a false pretense argument.

    And while the offense was lingering once the measurement was made the punt team was lining up. Thats what i saw.


    What coach in their right mind wouldn't call a TO when you think the other team's going to punt the ball and you need time to drive down the field?

    Option #1: Call timeout and guarantee an extra 30-35 seconds of time to drive 50 yards for FG.

    Option #2: Don't call TO guessing what your opposing coach is going to do, that may or may not work wasting 30-40 seconds.

    Dude, we'd be CRUCIFYING Pete this week if he didn't call the TO and we didn't have enough time to drive down into FG range.

    You guys are trying to create some mythical scenario where we win the game if not for a mistake by Pete that may or may not be true. Sorry dude, this is too far down the Monday morning QB hindsight rabbit hole for me.

    I deal in facts, and I lined out the ACTUAL reasons we lost the game, not some scenario that didn't happen.


    If you are going to deal in facts, deal in the right ones.

    It would have been roughly 25 seconds from the start of the ref's whistle once the measurement was made. Without any timeouts, the Rams had to make a choice what they were going to do once the measurement was made.

    The Seahawks wouldve lost about 30 seconds but saved a timeout, which may have saved them the same amount of time, if not some more.

    And while I'm not skewering PC for his decision, I'm not as convinced as you that it was as ambiguous as you made it out to be.

    We saw this in the loss to the Patriots. The Hawks were clearly caught off guard when the Pats did not call time out. It's not always as easy to say what the decision will be or not be.

    What the argument on here would've been, however, is based on the outcome.. because this is a message board.
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  • They were punting the ball!

    They had time to discuss this further because Pete took the time out and changed to going for it.

    “Initially we talked about punting it,” McVay said postgame. “You look at the belief that they had and how much they wanted to do and because of their belief, it made me feel confident — it made us as a coaching staff feel confident to make that decision.


    https://www.therams.com/news/goff-converts-fourth-down-sneak-to-secure-victory-over-seahawks
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  • Seymour wrote:They were punting the ball!

    They had time to discuss this further because Pete took the time out and changed to going for it.

    “Initially we talked about punting it,” McVay said postgame. “You look at the belief that they had and how much they wanted to do and because of their belief, it made me feel confident — it made us as a coaching staff feel confident to make that decision.


    https://www.therams.com/news/goff-converts-fourth-down-sneak-to-secure-victory-over-seahawks


    McVay doesn't say whether this epiphany came while they were doing the two measurements, or during the TO.

    So let's just agree to disagree, cause I'm exhausted.

    I and most people were fine with the TO, you and others weren't. As Belicheat says, moving on.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:They were punting the ball!

    They had time to discuss this further because Pete took the time out and changed to going for it.

    “Initially we talked about punting it,” McVay said postgame. “You look at the belief that they had and how much they wanted to do and because of their belief, it made me feel confident — it made us as a coaching staff feel confident to make that decision.


    https://www.therams.com/news/goff-converts-fourth-down-sneak-to-secure-victory-over-seahawks


    McVay doesn't say whether this epiphany came while they were doing the two measurements, or during the TO.

    So let's just agree to disagree, cause I'm exhausted.

    I and most people were fine with the TO, you and others weren't. As Belicheat says, moving on.


    Read the article!
    Whitworth was on the bench, helmet off fuming away they weren't going for it. That doesn't happen during a measurement.

    Exhausted is no reason to give it up, we need to settle this or forever come back trying to make the correct armchair decision. :snack:
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:They were punting the ball!

    They had time to discuss this further because Pete took the time out and changed to going for it.

    “Initially we talked about punting it,” McVay said postgame. “You look at the belief that they had and how much they wanted to do and because of their belief, it made me feel confident — it made us as a coaching staff feel confident to make that decision.


    https://www.therams.com/news/goff-converts-fourth-down-sneak-to-secure-victory-over-seahawks


    McVay doesn't say whether this epiphany came while they were doing the two measurements, or during the TO.

    So let's just agree to disagree, cause I'm exhausted.

    I and most people were fine with the TO, you and others weren't. As Belicheat says, moving on.


    Read the article!
    Whitworth was on the bench, helmet off fuming away they weren't going for it. That doesn't happen during a measurement.

    Exhausted is no reason to give it up, we need to settle this or forever come back trying to make the correct armchair decision. :snack:


    Too late, I've already chalked this argument up to a moral victory.
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  • I was fuming mad about the timeout also. But I think what they were going to do was run the play clock and time clock down as far as they could and either take a delay of game or they had a fake punt called. We were pretty much hosed no matter what. We played very good in that game and it came down to just one or two plays that cost us the game. I'm over it. I'm okay with it. Our team showed a lot of guts and played with pride.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:You contradict yourself a bit sgt. First assuming what PC did is what all coaches would do is also a false pretense argument.

    And while the offense was lingering once the measurement was made the punt team was lining up. Thats what i saw.


    What coach in their right mind wouldn't call a TO when you think the other team's going to punt the ball and you need time to drive down the field?

    Option #1: Call timeout and guarantee an extra 30-35 seconds of time to drive 50 yards for FG.

    Option #2: Don't call TO guessing what your opposing coach is going to do, that may or may not work wasting 30-40 seconds.

    Dude, we'd be CRUCIFYING Pete this week if he didn't call the TO and we didn't have enough time to drive down into FG range.

    You guys are trying to create some mythical scenario where we win the game if not for a mistake by Pete that may or may not be true. Sorry dude, this is too far down the Monday morning QB hindsight rabbit hole for me.

    I deal in facts, and I lined out the ACTUAL reasons we lost the game, not some scenario that didn't happen.


    The point though Sgt is I and many others were stunned they weren't going for it. When I saw the kicking unit midfield and the punter lining up his shot, I was ecstatic. Then, the ref signals Seahawk timeout I I went berserk. Anyone who has watched mcvay coach knows he is aggressive and believes in his offense. As soon as we called that, I knew we were done.

    Pete, for whatever reason, didn't take his opponents tendencies and strengths into account. The punt team taking the field was a pure gift that Pete gave right back by not being aware of the situation, and instead just doing what you "should" do. Same reason bellichek didn't call a TO before the fateful play that lost us the Superbowl, he put the pressure on us to make a quick decision.

    Sure, there were plenty of reasons we lost that game that could have been avoided. Those happen in every football game. The difference is that in spite of those mistakes, we still had a chance to win....until that time out was called. Poor decision caused by lack of situational awareness and not knowing your opponents tendencies.
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  • getnasty wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Again, that is a 100% timeout by every coach, at every level.
    Pete couldn't possibly have even thought possible that McVay would go for it there, as in the NFL, I doubt any coach ever has, at least in decades. What McVay did was beyond reckless. You want him to be foolish enough to go for it there. Pete just happened to be going against a young, cocky coach who hasn't had something like this blow up on him yet. McVay will keep doing stuff like this until the first time that it doesn't work, then he'll never, ever do it again.


    This is correct


    This is wrong. Every stat says you should absolutely go for it in that situation. The fact that we think it was a gutsy call or as you guys are saying, a foolish call, is sad.



    Even aside from the stats, that was the right call for this Rams team. They were dominating us up front and needed six inches, which they easily got. Their identity is their offense.

    Look at the Cowboys - their identity is Zeke and that OL and they neglected to go for it on 4th and 1 and lost the game. Another dumb decision by coaches playing scared.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... eece4d1473
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  • johnnyfever wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:You contradict yourself a bit sgt. First assuming what PC did is what all coaches would do is also a false pretense argument.

    And while the offense was lingering once the measurement was made the punt team was lining up. Thats what i saw.


    What coach in their right mind wouldn't call a TO when you think the other team's going to punt the ball and you need time to drive down the field?

    Option #1: Call timeout and guarantee an extra 30-35 seconds of time to drive 50 yards for FG.

    Option #2: Don't call TO guessing what your opposing coach is going to do, that may or may not work wasting 30-40 seconds.

    Dude, we'd be CRUCIFYING Pete this week if he didn't call the TO and we didn't have enough time to drive down into FG range.

    You guys are trying to create some mythical scenario where we win the game if not for a mistake by Pete that may or may not be true. Sorry dude, this is too far down the Monday morning QB hindsight rabbit hole for me.

    I deal in facts, and I lined out the ACTUAL reasons we lost the game, not some scenario that didn't happen.


    The point though Sgt is I and many others were stunned they weren't going for it. When I saw the kicking unit midfield and the punter lining up his shot, I was ecstatic. Then, the ref signals Seahawk timeout I I went berserk. Anyone who has watched mcvay coach knows he is aggressive and believes in his offense. As soon as we called that, I knew we were done.

    Pete, for whatever reason, didn't take his opponents tendencies and strengths into account. The punt team taking the field was a pure gift that Pete gave right back by not being aware of the situation, and instead just doing what you "should" do. Same reason bellichek didn't call a TO before the fateful play that lost us the Superbowl, he put the pressure on us to make a quick decision.

    Sure, there were plenty of reasons we lost that game that could have been avoided. Those happen in every football game. The difference is that in spite of those mistakes, we still had a chance to win....until that time out was called. Poor decision caused by lack of situational awareness and not knowing your opponents tendencies.


    This is exactly it. I was so stunned that they weren't going for it at the outset and then doubly stunned when we gave them time to come to their senses.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    getnasty wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Again, that is a 100% timeout by every coach, at every level.
    Pete couldn't possibly have even thought possible that McVay would go for it there, as in the NFL, I doubt any coach ever has, at least in decades. What McVay did was beyond reckless. You want him to be foolish enough to go for it there. Pete just happened to be going against a young, cocky coach who hasn't had something like this blow up on him yet. McVay will keep doing stuff like this until the first time that it doesn't work, then he'll never, ever do it again.


    This is correct


    This is wrong. Every stat says you should absolutely go for it in that situation. The fact that we think it was a gutsy call or as you guys are saying, a foolish call, is sad.



    Even aside from the stats, that was the right call for this Rams team. They were dominating us up front and needed six inches, which they easily got. Their identity is their offense.

    Look at the Cowboys - their identity is Zeke and that OL and they neglected to go for it on 4th and 1 and lost the game. Another dumb decision by coaches playing scared.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... eece4d1473


    Fossils and dinosaurs don't do stats man.
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  • mrt144 wrote:https://www.footballoutsiders.com/clutch-encounters/2018/clutch-encounters-week-5

    Football Outsiders weighs in


    "According to EdjSports, the Rams' Game Winning Chance by punting was 94.6 percent, but dropped to 90.9 percent by going for it."

    Interesting...
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  • What if we had let the clock run down BUT then the Rams went for it with 1 sec left?

    Then we would have said - they went for it because if they failed there wasn't that much time left

    You can have a difference of opinion on what should have been done, but in my mind you cannot blame someone for a decision like this
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