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I dont understand the optimism after an "almost win"?

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  • StoneCold wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Okay I have to ask you guys:

    Would you rather watch the Seahawks/Cardinals game again or the Seahawks/Rams game again? You have to choose.

    I get not believing in moral victories but IMO the Seahawks were a better team playing the Rams than they were the Cardinals. And while that doesn't show up in the win column, if it were me I would be at least somewhat encouraged.


    For the life of me I don't understand how anyone can't see there are positive takeaways from that game.


    There were plenty!

    Just no moral victories or good losses.

    A shitty loss we let slip away that showed promise on offense.
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    Seymour
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  • StoneCold wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Okay I have to ask you guys:

    Would you rather watch the Seahawks/Cardinals game again or the Seahawks/Rams game again? You have to choose.

    I get not believing in moral victories but IMO the Seahawks were a better team playing the Rams than they were the Cardinals. And while that doesn't show up in the win column, if it were me I would be at least somewhat encouraged.


    For the life of me I don't understand how anyone can't see there are positive takeaways from that game.


    There are, and I've said in other threads I saw a lot of encouraging things.

    Just not down with certain loser talk like "moral victory"........."almost win" or "good loss."

    No such thing in pro sports. So yeah it's semantics, but it's important to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak.........and any coach or player would bristle at the term "moral victory."
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  • What I saw that was the great take away was that Seattle, a team with an offense that has been a dumpster fire for years and nothing to brag about this year, played great in this game. Scoring 31 points on a Rams team that are a juggernaut on Offense and Defense. All Seattle's defense had to do was stop one of their scoring drives, or Fluker not to get a hold call and this is a Seattle win.

    If Seattle's offense can come into every week like they did with the Rams then that is the positive outlook that I think everyone is referring too. A loss is a loss, no matter what, but if the Offense finally gets it act together and plays like they did then we're looking at a lot more interesting season for the Hawks.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    StoneCold wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Okay I have to ask you guys:

    Would you rather watch the Seahawks/Cardinals game again or the Seahawks/Rams game again? You have to choose.

    I get not believing in moral victories but IMO the Seahawks were a better team playing the Rams than they were the Cardinals. And while that doesn't show up in the win column, if it were me I would be at least somewhat encouraged.


    For the life of me I don't understand how anyone can't see there are positive takeaways from that game.


    There are, and I've said in other threads I saw a lot of encouraging things.

    Just not down with certain loser talk like "moral victory"........."almost win" or "good loss."

    No such thing in pro sports. So yeah it's semantics, but it's important to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak.........and any coach or player would bristle at the term "moral victory."


    Seems like it would be a real moral victory for you if we all learned how to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak on this here internet message board.

    Anyway, please continue arguing fervently against a term nobody was using other than you and the OP. It's super weird at this point but also somewhat fascinating.
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  • The prime example of a good loss that always comes to mind is the New York Giants losing 38-35 in the last week of the regular season to the juggernaut 2007 Patriots that went 16-0. Showed em that they could hang with them and knew they had what it took to beat them, even though they lost. A month later they beat them in the Super Bowl.
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  • Chapow wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    StoneCold wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Okay I have to ask you guys:

    Would you rather watch the Seahawks/Cardinals game again or the Seahawks/Rams game again? You have to choose.

    I get not believing in moral victories but IMO the Seahawks were a better team playing the Rams than they were the Cardinals. And while that doesn't show up in the win column, if it were me I would be at least somewhat encouraged.


    For the life of me I don't understand how anyone can't see there are positive takeaways from that game.


    There are, and I've said in other threads I saw a lot of encouraging things.

    Just not down with certain loser talk like "moral victory"........."almost win" or "good loss."

    No such thing in pro sports. So yeah it's semantics, but it's important to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak.........and any coach or player would bristle at the term "moral victory."


    Seems like it would be a real moral victory for you if we all learned how to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak on this here internet message board.

    Anyway, please continue arguing fervently against a term nobody was using other than you and the OP. It's super weird at this point but also somewhat fascinating.


    Agree......very fascinating Bones!

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  • Chapow wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    StoneCold wrote:
    Ramfan128 wrote:Okay I have to ask you guys:

    Would you rather watch the Seahawks/Cardinals game again or the Seahawks/Rams game again? You have to choose.

    I get not believing in moral victories but IMO the Seahawks were a better team playing the Rams than they were the Cardinals. And while that doesn't show up in the win column, if it were me I would be at least somewhat encouraged.


    For the life of me I don't understand how anyone can't see there are positive takeaways from that game.


    There are, and I've said in other threads I saw a lot of encouraging things.

    Just not down with certain loser talk like "moral victory"........."almost win" or "good loss."

    No such thing in pro sports. So yeah it's semantics, but it's important to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak.........and any coach or player would bristle at the term "moral victory."


    Seems like it would be a real moral victory for you if we all learned how to differentiate between winner speak and loser speak on this here internet message board.

    Anyway, please continue arguing fervently against a term nobody was using other than you and the OP. It's super weird at this point but also somewhat fascinating.


    You're forgetting the voices in my head, there's at least 12-24 of those going depending on time of day.
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  • any coach would bristle at moral victory (which again, no one on here said).

    But, while no coach would publicly say "good loss" any good coach can see the positives in a loss and go from there. if the Seahawks had loss to the Cardinals, for example, i'm not sure there's much "good" in that loss.

    But in this one? I'd be hard pressed to believe PC is not looking at what his team did for 60 minutes with one of the best team's in the year's NFL and thinking he's got a lot of good to take from it... even in a loss.

    Its semantics, sure...
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  • Uncle Si wrote:any coach would bristle at moral victory (which again, no one on here said).

    But, while no coach would publicly say "good loss" any good coach can see the positives in a loss and go from there. if the Seahawks had loss to the Cardinals, for example, i'm not sure there's much "good" in that loss.

    But in this one? I'd be hard pressed to believe PC is not looking at what his team did for 60 minutes with one of the best team's in the year's NFL and thinking he's got a lot of good to take from it... even in a loss.

    Its semantics, sure...


    Totally agree.........but like I said, only if it leads to wins and continued success with whatever Pete deems those positives were.

    If we go 1-5 the next six games, no one's looking back on this game as a good loss, almost win or whatever backhanded superlative floats your boat.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:any coach would bristle at moral victory (which again, no one on here said).

    But, while no coach would publicly say "good loss" any good coach can see the positives in a loss and go from there. if the Seahawks had loss to the Cardinals, for example, i'm not sure there's much "good" in that loss.

    But in this one? I'd be hard pressed to believe PC is not looking at what his team did for 60 minutes with one of the best team's in the year's NFL and thinking he's got a lot of good to take from it... even in a loss.

    Its semantics, sure...


    Totally agree.........but like I said, only if it leads to wins and continued success with whatever Pete deems those positives were.

    If we go 1-5 the next six games, no one's looking back on this game as a good loss, almost win or whatever backhanded superlative floats your boat.


    That's just crazy talk. This Morale boost will keep me going for 4 or 5 losses at least.
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  • Image the locker room after the Rams loss....enough said.

    Now re-imagine if we had attempted the FG, for the team, win or lose, you get a sense of "we gave it our best".

    For the locker room it's the SB pass play all over again.

    We always hear players talking about moving on to the next game but the atmosphere it creates in a locker room will linger on.
    Choices and actions build character & content of character, matters.
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  • Seymour wrote:Image


    Damn, I must have missed that episode!
    Image

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  • We got our running mojo back again. Finally!

    What's NOT to be optimistic about? If we can continue with this Ground Chuck mindset, I could care less about W-L this season. Of course I want the Hawks to make the playoffs and win the Superb Owl. But if that doesn't happen, then I'll settle for second best---that we have a dominating run game again. RB yac floats my boat!
    enjoy the ride
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  • The optimism comes from a resurrected running game with Carson and Davis breathing life into an offense that wasn't good at all . Carson is on pace for an all pro year and Davis looks great to so there's hope on offense for the first time in over a year. On defense there better than I thought they would be and have some good young talent in the D-line and in the secondary. Pete and John are on there way to rebuilding this thing it's on a good trajectory if they kill it next draft and avoid the dreaded first round bust.
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  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:The optimism comes from a resurrected running game with Carson and Davis breathing life into an offense that wasn't good at all . Carson is on pace for an all pro year and Davis looks great to so there's hope on offense for the first time in over a year. On defense there better than I thought they would be and have some good young talent in the D-line and in the secondary. Pete and John are on there way to rebuilding this thing it's on a good trajectory if they kill it next draft and avoid the dreaded first round bust.


    Woah in a league with Gurley, Zeke, and Kamara, that's pretty bold.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:The optimism comes from a resurrected running game with Carson and Davis breathing life into an offense that wasn't good at all . Carson is on pace for an all pro year and Davis looks great to so there's hope on offense for the first time in over a year. On defense there better than I thought they would be and have some good young talent in the D-line and in the secondary. Pete and John are on there way to rebuilding this thing it's on a good trajectory if they kill it next draft and avoid the dreaded first round bust.


    Woah in a league with Gurley, Zeke, and Kamara, that's pretty bold.


    4.6 YPC that's elite if he can keep that going he will be in the conversation I never said he would be chosen just that he's playing at an all pro level and he is.
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  • I checked last year's all pro team and it was Gurley and Lev, the former of whom had 2000+ scrimmage yards and 19 TDs with 4.7 ypc in 15 games and the latter had 1946 scrim yards and 11 TDs with 4.0 ypc. In 2016 it was Zeke (1994 scrim yards and 16 TDs at 5.1 ypc) and DJ (2118 scrim yards and 20 TDs at 4.2 ypc). Carson's got a good ypc number especially compared to DJ and Bell. He has to sustain that for more than two games though
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  • Aros wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Image


    Damn, I must have missed that episode!


    That is cruel...I am gonna have to go back thru them all again. Hope my DVD player can handle it. Heck...that may be on Renegades.
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  • THE TABS wrote:
    Aros wrote:Because with all the warts, some that you listed, you can plainly see growth and what is to come. This team is no bottom feeder, cellar dweller. They are on the rise. The running game is back. That will allow Russ to be Russ again. The OL is showing a tenacity and toughness I haven't seen in years. The defense - while certainly no LOB Era - is full of young pups who are learning their way and I feel are going to be very, very good players.

    Like I just watched on Good Morning Football, they said...

    "Don't sleep on Seattle."

    You're damn right. Even my girlfriend Kay Adams said something to the effect of how I feel which is why do I feel so good about Seattle after a loss?

    Because you can see the beginning of what is to come. It's 2012 all over again.


    2012? I’d say more like 2010.

    This is a team clearly in transition, not uptrending, and that’s ON the field. On the sidelines is a whole different story. PC’s terrible game management issues cost us again, and schematicly speaking, we’ve become dinosaurs on both sides of the ball.

    Now, offensively, we played pretty damn good yesterday. For once, we didn’t allow Aaron Donald to single handedly destroy our offense, which was nice to see. We got into 3rd and manageables and converted them. However, when we were in obvious passing situations, we did struggle, per usual. My worst fears about BS have been confirmed; this offense isn’t on par with the rest of the league.

    Same with the defense. The scheme is stale and predictable, with a lot less talent than we’ve had in the past. We got destroyed on the intermediate routes all day. The Rams lost their top two receivers in the second half, but we couldn’t even force a punt! They executed without skipping a beat.

    I feel like the league is passing us by, and that the changes we made this past offseason weren’t enough. Unless Pete is willing to give up some power, and I doubt he would, then it’s time to move on for him, for the betterment of the franchise, and bring in an innovative offensive mind to take back what we’ve lost.


    It's funny how these same sort of things were said about us in 2013. Our defense was simplistic and we couldn't hold up to the best offence football had ever seen. Then 43-8 happened. And then everyone tried to build our "simple" defense.

    The game has not passed the coaches by. We are and always will be a defense oriented team. That's Pete's specialty so he will build that kind of team. And those kinds of teams win in December. The Chiefs and Rams are built to win in September and October.

    In the words of the great Aaron Rodgers R_E_L_A_X. Let Pete do his thing and evaluate the finished product before throwing him and the team under the bus.
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  • We had the number 1 scoring defense the year prior and were popular picks to make the SB in 2013, along with Denver.

    Saying the Rams and Chiefs are built to win in September and not the playoffs seems like rationalisation or hopefulness to me. They're the best teams in the league until proven otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them fell off though, it's certainly not a foreign scenario for the Chiefs
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  • adeltaY wrote:We had the number 1 scoring defense the year prior and were popular picks to make the SB in 2013, along with Denver.

    Saying the Rams and Chiefs are built to win in September and not the playoffs seems like rationalisation or hopefulness to me. They're the best teams in the league until proven otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them fell off though, it's certainly not a foreign scenario for the Chiefs


    They were the hot teams in Sept and Oct last year. Then the Chiefs melted down in November and the Rams melted down in January. Only the Eagles stayed hot all season and won the Bowl with a backup QB. But they were far stouter on both sides of the ball than the Rams or KC.

    And maybe it is hopefulness but seasons can change in a moment. A crushing knee injury to Donald, Gurley or Goff and the Rams are mortal again.
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  • SpokaneHawks wrote:Yes, I get it, we hung with the best. Well, we still lost. There is no such thing as a moral victory in this sport. We didnt get spanked (I didnt expect to) but we did out-coached. 2 and 3 is not looking good. IMO, it's now safe to say that our draft picks were a swing and a miss! We already had a better back than Penny on the roster, and the love for Shaqeem sure has disappeared as quick as he came, our touted punter has bad kicks at the worst possible times too. Good teams find a way to win at the end, we used to, and the Rams do now. I


    5 games in, and the draft picks are a swing and a miss? People keep making comments like this and exposing themselves, I love it.
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    adeltaY wrote:We had the number 1 scoring defense the year prior and were popular picks to make the SB in 2013, along with Denver.

    Saying the Rams and Chiefs are built to win in September and not the playoffs seems like rationalisation or hopefulness to me. They're the best teams in the league until proven otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them fell off though, it's certainly not a foreign scenario for the Chiefs


    They were the hot teams in Sept and Oct last year. Then the Chiefs melted down in November and the Rams melted down in January. Only the Eagles stayed hot all season and won the Bowl with a backup QB. But they were far stouter on both sides of the ball than the Rams or KC.

    And maybe it is hopefulness but seasons can change in a moment. A crushing knee injury to Donald, Gurley or Goff and the Rams are mortal again.


    Right, and a crushing knee injury to any team's great players can derail its season. You can't really factor that into your analysis of football unless you're discussing a proven injury prone player, which none of those guys is.

    It comes across like you're saying starting off hot is not a good thing, which its baffling. Just because the Seahawks and Patriots have got off to slow starts and finished well doesn't mean it's a good thing. In fact, the 2013 Seahawks team was something like 11-1 and didn't finish hot and they won it all.

    How were last year's Eagles stouter on offense than the Chiefs or Rams this year? I'll give you defense for sure, the Chiefs defense flat out sucks and the Rams defense is underperforming.
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  • adeltaY wrote:It comes across like you're saying starting off hot is not a good thing, which its baffling. Just because the Seahawks and Patriots have got off to slow starts and finished well doesn't mean it's a good thing. In fact, the 2013 Seahawks team was something like 11-1 and didn't finish hot and they won it all.

    How were last year's Eagles stouter on offense than the Chiefs or Rams this year? I'll give you defense for sure, the Chiefs defense flat out sucks and the Rams defense is underperforming.


    I think you're misconstruing the message.

    Starting hot in Sept/Oct isn't necessarily predictive of a solid winter run. Doesn't preclude it either. Obviously starting hot helps for seeding.

    But the manner and style with which one plays definitely affects how one finishes. When it gets cold, the physical teams tend to maintain their effectiveness. Whether that's on offense or defense. It's not always that way. But very frequently this is true. It's a tough grind through the season -- made tougher with the elements. Postseason fortunes very much favor teams willing to hit harder. The fact that the Chiefs and Rams defenses are so poor really doesn't bode well for them historically. Doesn't mean they can't succeed. But recent experience is littered with failures of teams that couldn't adapt to the attrition and elements change faced in winter.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:11-5? That is funny.

    This team isn't going to be 11-5.

    Most of the Hawks fans know it too. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a ton of people optimistic after losing by a little to a much better team. We aren't making the playoffs so at least playing somewhat competitively with a much better team is what we have to hang our hats on.

    11-5 isn't happening. That is laughable.


    Sigh. I didn't say we were an 11-5 team, only that the feeling is exactly the same. Hawks lose, and the world crashes down for many here. When this team loses, even in 13-15, people would complain that we didn't have what it takes, the philosophy is all wrong, etc.

    The moaning is always the same, and the voices are the same.

    And the opposite side of the spectrum is just as sick after a win, the delusions and run the table posts never get old at all :pukeface:
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  • But I definitely was surprised to see the game so close, but in division games, they historically are. Regardless of records. The crux of it is do you believe pete can bring this team back, or do you think he’s done. Well fought and I was impressed in the loss. But it all boils down to coaching and decision making for me , whether it’s betting on a unproven kicker/ punter AGAIN. And management on that last drive AGAIN.
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