The one area this game showed that needs some work was special teams. Mostly kickoff overage and also punting. Giving the team the ball at the 40+ on a regular basis on kickoffs is really hurting the team. And this is now the 2nd week in a row that Dickson has punted very poorly averaging 34 yards per kick on 4 kicks with just 1 inside the 20. I have no idea what is going on with him as a punter, that seems very strange he would be so inconsistent given all I've heard about him.

Thoughts?

Agree. My question was, is SeaBas that bad or injured on kickoffs? Why are we not covering? It was upsetting to see the Rams start every series past their 45-yard line.

I was listening to Hugh Millen this morning and he was hyping up Dickson and talking about watching his warm up "frisbee punt" where he puts mad spin and curve on the punt (2 directions it can go). He was saying that will be huge very soon, and guys are going to muff the catch because of the spin, and sounds like 1 or maybe 2 of Dickson's punts were these trick frisbee punts that didn't work out.

That could explain part of what we are seeing, that Pete is not just letting him fire away and having him use his trick shots possibly a bit much??

Does anyone know if the starters are being used on special teams as much as they used to? I remember one of the reason we were so good on special teams is that multiple main-stay starters were running special teams as well. I just don't remember the last time I saw Bobby Wagner on coverage, but I might be missing it.

IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

Agreed. The trickery needs to be reeled in. Special Teams was no doubt an issue yesterday. I think there is a time and place for the trickery no question but these constant drop kicks aren't doing crap for us at the moment. Just kick the damn ball into the endzone.

Sgt. Largent wrote:IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

I understand what your saying, and too a point I agree. Although, it's not like a Janikowski kick-off is a guaranteed success lately either.

For me personally, practice makes perfect, and if this odd kickoffs are something Dickson can perfect and we can use to our advantage? I'm ok with a few hit or miss attempts for a couple of games.

Aros wrote:Agreed. The trickery needs to be reeled in. Special Teams was no doubt an issue yesterday. I think there is a time and place for the trickery no question but these constant drop kicks aren't doing crap for us at the moment. Just kick the damn ball into the endzone.

The drop kicks are weird, but if they are going to do them at least try to spin it mid field at the 10 yard line. He has the accuracy to do this a good percentage of the time. But the pooch kick offs are a bust, let SeaBass do them if you aren't drop kicking further downfield.

Also, can't you score a field goal from a drop kick?

Sgt. Largent wrote:IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

I don't think this is left up to Dickson to decide his trick shot punts when and where. That almost certainly will be on Pete's command on what type punt in what situation. So in other words, Pete needs to reel Pete in not Dickson IMO.

But I agree on the overall point. There is a time and a place for everything, and it already has backfired.

bbsplitter wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

I understand what your saying, and too a point I agree. Although, it's not like a Janikowski kick-off is a guaranteed success lately either.

For me personally, practice makes perfect, and if this odd kickoffs are something Dickson can perfect and we can use to our advantage? I'm ok with a few hit or miss attempts for a couple of games.

Practice does not make perfect with the kicking game, because it's costing us games.

How many times did the drop kick kickoffs yesterday give the Rams a starting position past the 35 and even 40? 3 times? 4 times?

And his last punt only went to the Rams 21, because Pete said he was trying a rugby style rolling kick. Didn't work, and led to the Rams going for it on 4th on their own 41, when it should have been their 21 or worst 31. Which McVay woudn't have done that.

So I can't agree with the practice makes perfect in the kicking game. Do your job, and especially a punter we spent serious draft capital on to help win games, not help lose games.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

bbsplitter wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

I understand what your saying, and too a point I agree. Although, it's not like a Janikowski kick-off is a guaranteed success lately either.

For me personally, practice makes perfect, and if this odd kickoffs are something Dickson can perfect and we can use to our advantage? I'm ok with a few hit or miss attempts for a couple of games.

Practice does not make perfect with the kicking game, because it's costing us games.

How many times did the drop kick kickoffs yesterday give the Rams a starting position past the 35 and even 40? 3 times? 4 times?

And his last punt only went to the Rams 21, because Pete said he was trying a rugby style rolling kick. Didn't work, and led to the Rams going for it on 4th on their own 41, when it should have been their 21 or worst 31. Which McVay woudn't have done that.

So I can't agree with the practice makes perfect in the kicking game. Do your job, and especially a punter we spent serious draft capital on to help win games, not help lose games.

Nope. 2 kicks from Seabass were run past their 40 and only 1 from Dickson was just short of the 40 IIRC.

Seymour wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

bbsplitter wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

I understand what your saying, and too a point I agree. Although, it's not like a Janikowski kick-off is a guaranteed success lately either.

For me personally, practice makes perfect, and if this odd kickoffs are something Dickson can perfect and we can use to our advantage? I'm ok with a few hit or miss attempts for a couple of games.

Practice does not make perfect with the kicking game, because it's costing us games.

How many times did the drop kick kickoffs yesterday give the Rams a starting position past the 35 and even 40? 3 times? 4 times?

And his last punt only went to the Rams 21, because Pete said he was trying a rugby style rolling kick. Didn't work, and led to the Rams going for it on 4th on their own 41, when it should have been their 21 or worst 31. Which McVay woudn't have done that.

So I can't agree with the practice makes perfect in the kicking game. Do your job, and especially a punter we spent serious draft capital on to help win games, not help lose games.

Nope. 2 kicks from Seabass were run past their 40 and only 1 from Dickson was just short of the 40 IIRC.

Thanks Seymour, I was going to say... I don't remember that number being so high. But I was just leaving the window open that I didn't notice the other times

Seymour wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

bbsplitter wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:IMO Pete needs to reign in Dickson, he's getting too cute on all these drop kick kickoffs and rugby style punts that aren't working the majority of the time.

I get it, you've got this great punter that has a bag of tricks. But so far this season it's hurt us far more than helped. Just punt and kickoff the damn ball normally if you're punter can't figure out how to get a higher percentage of success out of these gimmick kicks.

I understand what your saying, and too a point I agree. Although, it's not like a Janikowski kick-off is a guaranteed success lately either.

For me personally, practice makes perfect, and if this odd kickoffs are something Dickson can perfect and we can use to our advantage? I'm ok with a few hit or miss attempts for a couple of games.

Practice does not make perfect with the kicking game, because it's costing us games.

How many times did the drop kick kickoffs yesterday give the Rams a starting position past the 35 and even 40? 3 times? 4 times?

And his last punt only went to the Rams 21, because Pete said he was trying a rugby style rolling kick. Didn't work, and led to the Rams going for it on 4th on their own 41, when it should have been their 21 or worst 31. Which McVay woudn't have done that.

So I can't agree with the practice makes perfect in the kicking game. Do your job, and especially a punter we spent serious draft capital on to help win games, not help lose games.

Nope. 2 kicks from Seabass were run past their 40 and only 1 from Dickson was just short of the 40 IIRC.

Don't ever correct me in front of the kids again.

I get it, the Rams had a long return earlier. But I still need to see a higher success percentage out of Dickson before I trust giving the other team that good of field position half the time.

I know we all love Dickson, he's a great story and fun to watch. But these kicks still have to work.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

Seymour wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

bbsplitter wrote:
I understand what your saying, and too a point I agree. Although, it's not like a Janikowski kick-off is a guaranteed success lately either.

For me personally, practice makes perfect, and if this odd kickoffs are something Dickson can perfect and we can use to our advantage? I'm ok with a few hit or miss attempts for a couple of games.

Practice does not make perfect with the kicking game, because it's costing us games.

How many times did the drop kick kickoffs yesterday give the Rams a starting position past the 35 and even 40? 3 times? 4 times?

And his last punt only went to the Rams 21, because Pete said he was trying a rugby style rolling kick. Didn't work, and led to the Rams going for it on 4th on their own 41, when it should have been their 21 or worst 31. Which McVay woudn't have done that.

So I can't agree with the practice makes perfect in the kicking game. Do your job, and especially a punter we spent serious draft capital on to help win games, not help lose games.

Nope. 2 kicks from Seabass were run past their 40 and only 1 from Dickson was just short of the 40 IIRC.

Don't ever correct me in front of the kids again.

I get it, the Rams had a long return earlier. But I still need to see a higher success percentage out of Dickson before I trust giving the other team that good of field position half the time.

I know we all love Dickson, he's a great story and fun to watch. But these kicks still have to work.

Correct you?

So I looked it up and I was correct, and on kickoffs Dickson had far better results.

1) Seabass returned to LA 35
2) Seabass returned to LA 42
3) Dickson returned to LA 30
4) Dickson returned to LA 17
5) Dickson returned to LA 37
6) Dickson returned to LA 26

I'm far more concerned about the trick punts and the last one going just 23 yards when we needed to pin them back. That could well have changed to final outcome.

Jazzhawk wrote:Agree. My question was, is SeaBas that bad or injured on kickoffs? Why are we not covering? It was upsetting to see the Rams start every series past their 45-yard line.

The only possession the Rams started beyond their 45 was on that disaster punt where they got it on the SEA 12 then turned it over. Here's where they started on every possession:

LA 39 (Kickoff)
SEA 12 (Punt)
LA 42 (Kickoff)
LA 20 (Punt)
LA 30 (Kickoff)
LA 36 (Kickoff)
LA 17 (Kickoff)
LA 26 (Kickoff)
LA 18 (Punt)
LA 21 (Punt)

Seymour wrote:
I'm far more concerned about the trick punts and the last one going just 23 yards when we needed to pin them back. That could well have changed to final outcome.

Agreed, and what I've been trying to say all morning.

Dickson's punt far more contributed to the McVay going for it than whether you thought Pete should have taken a TO.

McVay ain't going for it on his own 26 or 31.

I’m more concerned about the kick coverage and tackling than I am the actual kicking.

oldhawkfan wrote:I’m more concerned about the kick coverage and tackling than I am the actual kicking.

The tackling in general has been pretty bad. Too many bad angles, too many missed tackles, lack of gap discipline................. on all three levels.

Hard to watch for a Carroll team that are usually VERY sound tacklers. I understand, it's youth. But this wasn't happening with all the young guys the first go around.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

oldhawkfan wrote:I’m more concerned about the kick coverage and tackling than I am the actual kicking.

The tackling in general has been pretty bad. Too many bad angles, too many missed tackles, lack of gap discipline................. on all three levels.

Hard to watch for a Carroll team that are usually VERY sound tacklers. I understand, it's youth. But this wasn't happening with all the young guys the first go around.

Some of these guys don’t understand that it’s ok to use your arms when tackling. Completely blows my mind when I see a guy being paid at the professional level not wrap up on a tackle. I tried that once...in jr hs...never again.

They no longer can learn to tackle in practice so now we get to watch them learn in games I guess.

Most of the kick return issues the runner was untouched most of the time from what I remember, the missed tackles were more on run after catch on pass plays (DB's and safeties)

Missed tackles all over 5 games..hard to believe Carroll has how to tackle video...these guys have been playing football their whole lives ...shouldn't have to teach them how to tackle at this point.