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RBs, draft picks, and a rock and a hard place.

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  • Two lead backs are killing it right now, particularly Carson, which leads people to despise the Penny pick. We should all be reminded that things change quickly at the position.

    The Eagles are a great example right now (rock and a hard place) and will likely come knocking. Do you just see what they offer for Prosise and pull the trigger? What if they offer more for Davis? Is there a world where they pony up a second for Penny?

    Obviously not including Carson here....uh yeah...no.
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  • Procise will not fetch anything more than a 7th rounder. If someone offers that you take it without hesitation.

    Keep everyone else.
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  • Well, if they come knocking, we'd be fools to not at least listen to an offer, but I'd be loathe to do a trade now.

    We're still early in the season, and our RBs have not proven they can last a whole season yet. Penny has huge upside (IMHO), not to mention that 5th year option we get for him being a 1st rd pick. I think people dissing the pick tend to forget that. If he pans out, we get an extra year out of him.

    Plus, the Eagles are rivals. Sure, they're not in our division, but they are in our conference. Do we want to help them improve? I'm torn, and I'd want a lot for an RB deal with them.
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  • The only back that I would trade right now is Prosise.

    Carson and Davis are untouchable and I'm not willing to let Penny go without him getting a fair chance to see what we have. We need at least three RBs that we trust and I'm giving Penny the benefit of the doubt here.
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  • Interesting responses. I can see this going all sorts of ways.

    Is this scenario impacted by Davis possibly being inactive this week to rest/heal the ankle and also McKissic possibly coming back week 9?
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Interesting responses. I can see this going all sorts of ways.

    Is this scenario impacted by Davis possibly being inactive this week to rest/heal the ankle and also McKissic possibly coming back week 9?

    I've been wondering what happened to Davis. I never saw a comment on him. I wouldn't trade him based on missing one week with a tweaked ankle.
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  • I don't see the Eagles trading for one of the Seahawks' RBs because you can get decent RB play off the street.

    As evidence, see the Hawks' very own Chris Carson and Mike Davis.

    Remember, before going to the Eagles Ajayi was coming off a Pro-Bowl and he only netted a 4th round pick.

    Guys like McKissic or Prosise in the absolute best case scenario go for a conditional 6th or 7th, but to be honest, I can't think of a single case of a team trading draft capital for another team's RB #3 or #4.
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  • sutz wrote:
    vin.couve12 wrote:Interesting responses. I can see this going all sorts of ways.

    Is this scenario impacted by Davis possibly being inactive this week to rest/heal the ankle and also McKissic possibly coming back week 9?

    I've been wondering what happened to Davis. I never saw a comment on him. I wouldn't trade him based on missing one week with a tweaked ankle.

    Oh, not what I meant. I meant that it would mean 3 healthy backs on the roster and we have seemed to get tje injury bug at the worst times.

    And we might need to rest a back every so often, the way we run.
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:Two lead backs are killing it right now, particularly Carson, which leads people to despise the Penny pick. We should all be reminded that things change quickly at the position.

    The Eagles are a great example right now (rock and a hard place) and will likely come knocking. Do you just see what they offer for Prosise and pull the trigger? What if they offer more for Davis? Is there a world where they pony up a second for Penny?

    Obviously not including Carson here....uh yeah...no.

    With our injury history, you keep everyone (not named Prosise).
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  • I dont know. The Eagles are having a bit of hard time with injuries.

    Prosise is done. Penny speculation during the draft but he hasnt helped his stock too much.

    I just dont think anyone would call us about running backs.

    It would be nice to have an empty roster spot to bring in kickers for a look.
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  • If any team offers a new tub and training table for Prosise, you jump on that. No telling how worn down the Hawks' equipment is now.

    ...or even a 7th. IMO, you hang on to Carson of course, Davis and McKissic. And for better or worse they're not trading Penny.
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  • The Penny pick was necessary.

    We already went into a season 'hoping' a RB would be recovered in a different season. Remember Rawls? (That was stupid btw even back then.)

    Penny was an important pick because he was insurance if Carson could not go. Davis is not a lead back.

    Yes, you CAN get a good RB in the later rounds. There are good RBs that come out of the 4th - 7th rounds. But you don't have good odds. Because a lot of RBs go in those rounds and only a few become good players. So sure, you CAN get a good one in those rounds but you don't pin your season on it.

    We needed a RB that could start. You get those in the 1st -2nd rounds. Or you can draft one in the 5th round and hope you picked one of the 15 that is starter quality. Not a riskless move though.

    Penny came in overweight and with poor work ethic. I generally don't ever think you draft a player with a poor work ethic but here we are. But for a team to try to go run first and pin it all on a RB with a slight injury history and then a journeyman? Not a recipe for success.

    We have a 1st round pick and we haven't developed him yet. Can he be good? We have no idea. But trading 1sts for 2nds seems a recipe for more depth issues later.

    And because RBs are undervalued you won't get enough for him anyway.
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  • I get the Penny pick to fill a need on the roster given the injury history of Carson, Prosise, and Davis. The disconcerting part is that he's the third string RB. You'd think a first round RB would at least be the "2" in the "1-2" punch, but he isn't even that. The fact that he didn't see a snap on offense is concerning because that's your top pick not contributing anything save for a special teams snap in a whole game.
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  • Shady McCoy will end up back in Philly.

    Book it.
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  • Something to remember is that at some point soon you probably are bringing back McKissic too. The only RB I would not trade right now is Carson. Davis is available for the right price as is anyone else in my book.
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  • One injury to a current RB (knock on wood) and the Penny pick is validated. That's why I'm not going to get twisted in a bunch about it.
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  • Is it worth considering that McKissic isn't a real RB in that he's not a real between the tackles runner? Nice in tje pass game, sure, but he's a sack of potatoes like tje small WR that he is when he gets hit.

    Does that actually constitute a RB in our style of inside running?
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  • "Penny came in..........and with poor work ethic"

    Where does this come from?
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:One injury to a current RB (knock on wood) and the Penny pick is validated. That's why I'm not going to get twisted in a bunch about it.

    Can't be validated if he's a bad player. This was also a draft where RBs were considered a strength, even if he ends up okay I think it was a horrible pick -- especially since they passed up a guard that is smashing it right now in Will Hernandez -- a position that was desperately needed.
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  • TreeRon wrote:"Penny came in..........and with poor work ethic"

    Where does this come from?

    Out of someone’s hind quarters.
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  • Who is this Procise person people keep mentioning? I have seen no evidence that this person even exists. There may be a roster spot taken up by this name but is he even real?
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  • I like what Carson and Davis are doing, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    I don't know where Penny having a poor work ethic came from?
    I do know he is still learning how to pass protect, having come from a college program that ran the ball a lot!
    Give the kid some time to figure something out before ya' start talking about trading him, or how lazy he is!
    I still like the pick, and think he's going to be great once he's up to speed.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:One injury to a current RB (knock on wood) and the Penny pick is validated. That's why I'm not going to get twisted in a bunch about it.

    Can't be validated if he's a bad player.


    Good thing that hasn't been decided yet, then, eh?
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:Who is this Procise person people keep mentioning? I have seen no evidence that this person even exists. There may be a roster spot taken up by this name but is he even real?


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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:One injury to a current RB (knock on wood) and the Penny pick is validated. That's why I'm not going to get twisted in a bunch about it.

    Can't be validated if he's a bad player. This was also a draft where RBs were considered a strength, even if he ends up okay I think it was a horrible pick -- especially since they passed up a guard that is smashing it right now in Will Hernandez -- a position that was desperately needed.


    Yeah wanted Hernandez too...Still i think they did a good job w/ the draft. There were a couple teams that wanted Penny, i think the Patriots were ready to pick him up.

    Penny just needs to get to NFL speed. I think he will finally start to get it by week 10.
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  • Mike Davis could very well be on another team in a season, Prosise will most likely be gone. So Penny by default should be #2.

    What I am concerned with Penny is I don't see a guy who wants it bad enough. He seems to be cool with collecting 1st round money, and playing Fortnite.

    The Seahawks just have to hope for the best, the pick has already been made. He has time to figure it out still, and be a player down the road.

    I liked the pick at the time, he was my back of choice on the board when they were picking. I wanted Will Hernandez, but if they took a runningback I wanted it to be Penny, but damn he has been disappointing so far.

    Drafting running backs in the 1st round is a scary proposition. They have to be impactful early, or it is just a bad investment. Unlike Lineman, Receivers, QBs, who take time usually, but can have much longer careers. Runningbacks have a short shelf-life and grow on trees compared to other positions in the NFL. Pile on top of the fact that, teams are throwing more now than ever, and the traditional running game is being de-emphasized with college style runs with receivers, & qbs.

    Even the Seahawks lean on a very basic Zone Read play (Russell never keeps) that High School's commonly run that wasn't really utilized in the NFL until 2012 when Shanahan started doing it with RG III.

    TLDR - Don't draft a runningback in the 1st unless they are a generational talent, and you are damn sure of this fact.
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  • Penny for Sydney Jones?
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  • http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000972422/article/carroll-frustrated-rashaad-penny-exactly-what-i-want

    Here is the latest on Penny. Very telling article that has many angles to view from.
    > PC is not happy with his performance so he must try to motivate the talent.
    > PC saving him for when the 'injury' comes knocking on the RB position
    > PC twisting his shame in wasting a high draft pick on a RB when 2 others drafted later are performing better
    > Hiding an injury

    " Penny has been stuffed either at or behind the line of scrimmage on 27.6 percent of his attempts -- seventh-worst rate among RBs with at least 10 carries through Week 4. " - I think that says a lot for a first rounder.
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  • You know it's possible they could have added depth in an extremely deep RB class without burning a 1st on a RB who clearly seems to be more in the 6/7th tier.
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  • 2_0_6 wrote:Procise will not fetch anything more than a 7th rounder. If someone offers that you take it without hesitation.

    Keep everyone else.

    Based upon 29 carries...foolish.
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  • Penny came from a smaller school. So the weight training and the rest might not have been as intense as the NFL right now.

    But, he has literally been quoted that one of the things he does often stay up all night playing video games.

    Lack of sleep makes it hard to recover from workouts anyway, but lack of focus makes it hard to pick up a position period.

    There are multiple articles about the staff being upset that he came into camp overweight and out of shape.

    Is it fixable? Sure.

    But right now, his processes for maintaining himself physically seem to be behind. That could be work ethic, or it could be a lack of good habits built up that now need to be learned. Either way, we may need him but it does not sound like he is ready.

    Penny was my hope as the RB pick. So this is disappointing. But considering the chances we keep giving Procise, Penny warrants a few.

    He needs to put the video games down though, get into better shape, and focus on being the kind of football player a #1 draft pick would warrant.

    For a run first offense, we cannot afford to have only 2 RBs because both RBs are important in a game and if one goes down, we need another to spell our starter. So we have to have Penny as productive RB.
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  • I haven't heard that about Penny playing long hours of video games while obviously munching out in the process. Either way it fits the eye test that he came in in poor shape. If true that really sucks because at this point he seems about as brilliant and dedicated as Christine Michael and Eddie Lacey which isn't good at all.
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  • Jamaal Charles just signed with the Jags yesterday. I can't imagine getting any trade value for Procise when there are reasonable vets out there for free. ... maybe a late rounder for a young productive back, but there's too many serviceable backs for free to expect any return value.

    I think we have to resign ourselves to upcoming cap difficulties, few draft picks and underperforming recent picks. The answer is hitting on late round picks and getting immediate impact on early rounds in '19. It worked before but hard to replicate. ...certainly haven't been able to come close lately....
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  • He never said anything about munching out.

    Just that he finds himself staying up all night playing Fortnite regularly (or often, depending on the interview).

    Once in an interview before TC, once in an interview after TC.

    I am kind of hoping he realized he needs to not do that anymore. (The gaming all night, not the interviews)
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  • I don't mind that they used a 1st on a RB, but if you use a first one a RB, the RB better be something that POPS out at you.

    There are so many replacement level RBs available that this pick seems like a waste, even if Penny turns into a good RB in the NFL. Good RBs are a dime a dozen.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:He never said anything about munching out.

    Just that he finds himself staying up all night playing Fortnite regularly (or often, depending on the interview).

    Once in an interview before TC, once in an interview after TC.

    I am kind of hoping he realized he needs to not do that anymore. (The gaming all night, not the interviews)


    Ya, I threw that in because it fits with the mentality and situation. Either way, he sounds committed to something other than working hard which is a real bad sign.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:
    Penny came in overweight and with poor work ethic. I generally don't ever think you draft a player with a poor work ethic but here we are. But for a team to try to go run first and pin it all on a RB with a slight injury history and then a journeyman? Not a recipe for success.

    .


    It's funny how you just put that out there like its undeniable fact. This forum would be a whole lot less polarizing if people would state their opinions as opinion and not fact. Would it have been too hard to just put "I think" in front of that opening sentence.

    Just a pet peeve. People should avoid assuming they know the mind of any human being other than themselves.
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  • Maybe that should be have rephrased.

    But let me ask you....you are going into your first day at a new job in a new city for a position of dire need.

    What excuses coming into camp overweight and out of shape if it is not work ethic? Many players go to special camps BEFORE they show up to camp in order to be in the best possible shape.

    People with a strong work ethic in a physical sport report in shape and ready to produce. People would take the time instead to play video games in 14 hour stretches, probably are not as motivated.

    Your pet peeve is noted and if he was injured, it would make sense. But if he was healthy and he reported in the shape being discussed - that is a work ethic issue. People committed to the game shouldn't let themselves get that far out of shape.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Maybe that should be have rephrased.

    But let me ask you....you are going into your first day at a new job in a new city for a position of dire need.

    What excuses coming into camp overweight and out of shape if it is not work ethic? Many players go to special camps BEFORE they show up to camp in order to be in the best possible shape.

    People with a strong work ethic in a physical sport report in shape and ready to produce. People would take the time instead to play video games in 14 hour stretches, probably are not as motivated.

    Your pet peeve is noted and if he was injured, it would make sense. But if he was healthy and he reported in the shape being discussed - that is a work ethic issue. People committed to the game shouldn't let themselves get that far out of shape.


    I completely agree and do not personally believe you need to rephrase that statement because you stated why you feel that way. The term IMO is inferred by default on most forums without having to write it....pet peeve or not.
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  • I don't see a lick of sense in caring about what's going on around the league as it pertains to the RB position. We tried pass heavy for about 3 years and it doesn't get this team anywhere. We don't sustain dives, horrible on 3rd down, and are remarkably inconsistent in general on offense. FOR THE SEAHAWKS, the run game is clearly a stabalizer so it is completely illogical to account for other team's offensive philosophies and personnel.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Maybe that should be have rephrased.

    But let me ask you....you are going into your first day at a new job in a new city for a position of dire need.

    What excuses coming into camp overweight and out of shape if it is not work ethic? Many players go to special camps BEFORE they show up to camp in order to be in the best possible shape.

    People with a strong work ethic in a physical sport report in shape and ready to produce. People would take the time instead to play video games in 14 hour stretches, probably are not as motivated.

    Your pet peeve is noted and if he was injured, it would make sense. But if he was healthy and he reported in the shape being discussed - that is a work ethic issue. People committed to the game shouldn't let themselves get that far out of shape.


    Again you don't know that he was out of shape. I've not seen any reports from the Seahawks or the player saying he was out of shape. He had extra pounds but a lot of guys take off weight to get a good 40 time then put on weight to deal with the rigors of NFL. You don't know whether his motivation was that or he just likes sitting around eating Doritos.

    It's just generally gossip-mongering to make such strongly biased inferences from minimal information. If you are going to make strongly negative statements about a human being, quote your sources and back it up with first hand information. Otherwise its hearsay and slander.
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  • Slander?

    You know I am a big Penny backer right?

    I have been in his corner since before the draft. The articles were upsetting but not a deal breaker.

    We needed him. He just hasn't produced.

    So to be clear, you are now defending him against one of his bigger fans? You know those articles are all available on Google right? Some were on freaking Field Gulls. I read up on the guy because I want to know how he is doing or why he isn't - not because I have an axe to grind.
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  • I don't know about trading penny right now. I do not like his effort compared to Davis or Carson but I guess he's better than Lacy if those 2 both go down. I'm not convinced he's better than cmike at this stage of things but he's what we have.

    I do hope we continue to pick up later round backs so we might avoid paying for penny. RBBC with a third option for injury mitigation seems viable going forward if solari continues as he has been going.
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  • You cannot demand the workload we do of our 2 backs, and have nothing there if either goes down.

    We will need him.

    Trading him would not be that helpful.
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