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Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:09 am
  • I still think part of the issue is recovering from his finger surgery. I am not worried. Not just because Carson and Davis are ballin' but because I still think Penny is going to be a good player for us down the road.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:58 am
  • Carson and Davis are "good players". Penny was drafted in a position to expect to become a "great player" and it's not unreasonable to use that as the standard.

    I'm not liking what I'm seeing and hearing (and not seeing) at this time and point myself. I'm not worried because I've come to expect blown early picks from this staff myself.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:05 am
  • I think Penny will have his time to shine. I know many on here are fawning over the other rookie backs because they're getting their chance and showing off, but many of them were also thrust into starting jobs or needed to start. Penny was always gonna sit behind Carson and now Davis. I think Penny will be a good back, not legendary perhaps, but when once he really adopts the system and spends some time learning then he'll show off the skill he was famous for in college. I'm not worried.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:08 am
  • Seymour wrote:Carson and Davis are "good players". Penny was drafted in a position to expect to become a "great player" and it's not unreasonable to use that as the standard.

    I'm not liking what I'm seeing and hearing (and not seeing) at this time and point myself. I'm not worried because I've come to expect blown early picks from this staff myself.


    That's a bit too negative for my Wednesday thank you very much. Penny has had finger surgery, which may or may not explain the lack of production so far. Or he's just not quite NFL ripe yet. Either way, I don't have this nagging fear that he's on the way to Bustville. Not even close. Right now the team is simply playing their hot hands which is Carson and Davis. I don't think much more needs to be looked into the situation. Just my take.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:11 am
  • :141847_bnono:
    Seahawk_Dan wrote:I think Penny will have his time to shine. I know many on here are fawning over the other rookie backs because they're getting their chance and showing off, but many of them were also thrust into starting jobs or needed to start. Penny was always gonna sit behind Carson and now Davis. I think Penny will be a good back, not legendary perhaps, but when once he really adopts the system and spends some time learning then he'll show off the skill he was famous for in college. I'm not worried.

    Penny got just as many snaps as our starting running back the first few weeks... he was out preformed by two seventh rounders.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:13 am
  • Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:19 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote::141847_bnono:
    Seahawk_Dan wrote:I think Penny will have his time to shine. I know many on here are fawning over the other rookie backs because they're getting their chance and showing off, but many of them were also thrust into starting jobs or needed to start. Penny was always gonna sit behind Carson and now Davis. I think Penny will be a good back, not legendary perhaps, but when once he really adopts the system and spends some time learning then he'll show off the skill he was famous for in college. I'm not worried.

    Penny got just as many snaps as our starting running back the first few weeks... he was out preformed by two seventh rounders.


    Mike Davis was a 4th Round pick, but regardless, one (Carson) with a year in the system and now on year two and another (Davis) a three year pro who is also on his second year with this team. They've had a chance to learn and develop and understand the X's and O's of the Seattle Offense. Penny, a rookie, is new to all this. Fresh face babe who also missed the preseason due to injury, taking away valuable learning time and thrown immediately into the fire in Week One when he came back.

    I can give him the benefit of the doubt his first year or two unlike so many others who apparently thought if he couldn't come out of the gate with 150 yards rushing in week one, well what a waste of a pick and kick his ass to the curb. Bust. Jeez.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 am
  • Bahh. Everyone thought Alexander was a bust when he couldn't supplant Ricky Watters. We saw how that turned out.

    Perspective people.

    Penny was essentially a very high second round pick. It's not like we took him 6th overall. Most "great" RB's come from earlier in round 1. Bottom of the first round is a great spot to take a touted RB since it gives you 5 years of control at reasonable prices. Grabbing them later means you have to make a decision on a second contract sooner than you might want.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:25 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote::141847_bnono:
    Seahawk_Dan wrote:I think Penny will have his time to shine. I know many on here are fawning over the other rookie backs because they're getting their chance and showing off, but many of them were also thrust into starting jobs or needed to start. Penny was always gonna sit behind Carson and now Davis. I think Penny will be a good back, not legendary perhaps, but when once he really adopts the system and spends some time learning then he'll show off the skill he was famous for in college. I'm not worried.

    Penny got just as many snaps as our starting running back the first few weeks... he was out preformed by two seventh rounders.


    Mike Davis was actually a 4th round pick by the 49ers. He had a couple great years as a rusher at South Carolina against athletic, physical SEC defenses. At the time, I was hoping the Seahawks would take him in the 5th round or so.

    Like a lot of young running backs, Davis had a horrible rookie season. He was used to not having a lot of running lane in college, but the game looked too fast for him. Then he had to overcome the perception that he was someone who was not fast or elusive enough for the NFL level.

    In addition to adjusting to the speed of the game, Davis is in incredible shape now.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:28 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Did our 7th round pick (Carson) need this time last year?

    No you say....why is that then? Look at the shape that Carson showed up in and compare that to Penny. Night and day difference in attitude and dedication. One seems hungry and the other not so much IMO.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:28 am
  • This is a pretty good article. It’s anecdotal, but I’ll take what I can get.

    That context you might be overlooking or forgetting is the careers of almost every significant back in the last decade. I don’t even need to pull back farther than that — and if I did, we’d go back to an era where it was always assumed that running backs needed at least a year to get up to NFL speed. (Remember that Shaun Alexander was a backup to Ricky Watters.) I think backs still need time to get caught up to the speed of the pros.

    The proof is in the careers of these backs. And the context that you’ve forgotten about their career starts is now provided.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... n-bell-nfl
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:34 am
  • When is the last time we could argue about which back should get playing time because each are so good? This is an embarrassment of riches we haven't seen here since Lynch.

    If Carson and Davis weren't very good this wouldn't even be a conversation about Penny's playing time or lacktherof.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:37 am
  • Seahawk_Dan wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote::141847_bnono:
    Seahawk_Dan wrote:I think Penny will have his time to shine. I know many on here are fawning over the other rookie backs because they're getting their chance and showing off, but many of them were also thrust into starting jobs or needed to start. Penny was always gonna sit behind Carson and now Davis. I think Penny will be a good back, not legendary perhaps, but when once he really adopts the system and spends some time learning then he'll show off the skill he was famous for in college. I'm not worried.

    Penny got just as many snaps as our starting running back the first few weeks... he was out preformed by two seventh rounders.


    Mike Davis was a 4th Round pick, but regardless, one (Carson) with a year in the system and now on year two and another (Davis) a three year pro who is also on his second year with this team. They've had a chance to learn and develop and understand the X's and O's of the Seattle Offense. Penny, a rookie, is new to all this. Fresh face babe who also missed the preseason due to injury, taking away valuable learning time and thrown immediately into the fire in Week One when he came back.

    I can give him the benefit of the doubt his first year or two unlike so many others who apparently thought if he couldn't come out of the gate with 150 yards rushing in week one, well what a waste of a pick and kick his ass to the curb. Bust. Jeez.


    I'll add that Davis didn't out perform Penny the first few weeks either. Weeks 1 and 3 he had 0 carries, and week 2 he went 3 carries for 3 yards. Davis didn't out perform Penny till week 4 with his 100+ yds and 2 TDs, a game where Penny actually played pretty well himself, getting 49 yds on 9 carries.

    Penny's carries mostly came the first 2 weeks when we were passing 60% of the time and not establishing any kind of run game, the only other week he saw decent volume he produced. I think we need to wait and see how he performs in the current state of our offense and not judge him by is first 2 career games, coming off injury and missing pre season.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Did our 7th round pick (Carson) need this time last year?

    No you say....why is that then? Look at the shape that Carson showed up in and compare that to Penny. Night and day difference in attitude and dedication. One seems hungry and the other not so much IMO.


    And good for Carson. He came to play and he clearly has dedication. No one is saying Carson isn't a good fit for Seattle just that Penny needs some time.

    People are different. Regardless of where they're picked in the draft, everyone develops differently.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Did our 7th round pick (Carson) need this time last year?

    No you say....why is that then? Look at the shape that Carson showed up in and compare that to Penny. Night and day difference in attitude and dedication. One seems hungry and the other not so much IMO.


    I don’t think Penny came in out of shape, per se. It’s obvious that he’s been training hard, and he looks stronger than he did in college. They probably wanted him to gain some weight (around 225-230), so that he could hold up better and avoid injury.

    It’s just that he needs a full off-season of training and conditioning to maximize his natural athletic gifts and frame. He also needs time to adjust to the speed of the NFL game and learn how to read and react with better efficiency, so that he doesn’t run tentatively in the backfield. That’s just time and experience. This was obvious from watching him run in college through mostly unimpeded holes against mostly bad run defenses; the natural talent is there. It’s just going to take some time.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:41 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Did our 7th round pick (Carson) need this time last year?

    No you say....why is that then? Look at the shape that Carson showed up in and compare that to Penny. Night and day difference in attitude and dedication. One seems hungry and the other not so much IMO.


    I think Carson is the exception, not the rule. Yeah it sucks that our first round pick is currently 3rd on the depth chart. I choose to look at it as Carson and Davis are just playing that well right now, rather than Penny isn't good enough. I could be wrong, but I'll stay optimistic about him until proven otherwise, and no his first 2 career starts splitting carries in a 60/40 pass offense doesn't prove anything yet.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:06 am
  • Mad Dog wrote:Bahh. Everyone thought Alexander was a bust when he couldn't supplant Ricky Watters. We saw how that turned out.

    Perspective people.

    .

    Umm yea... so to be clear is it Carson or Davis that you are comparing to Ricky Waters?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am
  • Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 am
  • T-Hawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Did our 7th round pick (Carson) need this time last year?

    No you say....why is that then? Look at the shape that Carson showed up in and compare that to Penny. Night and day difference in attitude and dedication. One seems hungry and the other not so much IMO.


    I think Carson is the exception, not the rule. Yeah it sucks that our first round pick is currently 3rd on the depth chart. I choose to look at it as Carson and Davis are just playing that well right now, rather than Penny isn't good enough. I could be wrong, but I'll stay optimistic about him until proven otherwise, and no his first 2 career starts splitting carries in a 60/40 pass offense doesn't prove anything yet.

    Carson isn't the exception. The history of the NFL is full of running backs that are productive as low round picks, even right away in some cases. We're seeing two of them right now in Royce Freeman and Lindsay over in Denver. Two really productive backs in last years draft were taken in the 3rd round (Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara). Our Chris Carson was also productive in the games he played as a 7th round pick. Hell, the Broncos under Shannahan regularly turned nobodies into stars, that was their MO.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:15 am
  • rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.


    Why is that the only problem?

    An NFL running back showing up to work day 1 overweight would be like you (say you are a carpenter) showing up to work day 1 in an arm cast. One of the first alarming things I noticed from Penny is he flat out looked slow on the field.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:28 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Would Big Walt ever say anything negative about a player in a public interview? Sorry but gonna take what he has to say in this context with a grain of salt
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:29 am
  • rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:36 am
  • therealjohncarlson wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Would Big Walt ever say anything negative about a player in a public interview? Sorry but gonna take what he has to say in this context with a grain of salt


    Exactly. Follow the money, he is now on the Seahawks broadcast payroll. Yes, we should give him (Penny) time....because we now have to mostly.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:09 pm
  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:Bahh. Everyone thought Alexander was a bust when he couldn't supplant Ricky Watters. We saw how that turned out.

    Perspective people.

    .

    Umm yea... so to be clear is it Carson or Davis that you are comparing to Ricky Waters?


    I'd say Carson is more the Ricky Watters prototype. Workman like back that never takes negative yardage but rarely breaks a long one.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:15 pm
  • Rookies need practice and playing time. The injury really set him back because you don't have those kind of opportunities in season. The team needs to think about Sunday, every week. He'll get a chance at some point. Penny was drafted due to the injury history of the Seattle backfield. No one likes to pay for insurance until you need it.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:16 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    T-Hawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Heard Big Walt the other day in an interview. He said give Penny time. Neither Carson nor Davis have proven they're durable RB's; Penny could get a chance (knock on wood).


    Did our 7th round pick (Carson) need this time last year?

    No you say....why is that then? Look at the shape that Carson showed up in and compare that to Penny. Night and day difference in attitude and dedication. One seems hungry and the other not so much IMO.


    I think Carson is the exception, not the rule. Yeah it sucks that our first round pick is currently 3rd on the depth chart. I choose to look at it as Carson and Davis are just playing that well right now, rather than Penny isn't good enough. I could be wrong, but I'll stay optimistic about him until proven otherwise, and no his first 2 career starts splitting carries in a 60/40 pass offense doesn't prove anything yet.

    Carson isn't the exception. The history of the NFL is full of running backs that are productive as low round picks, even right away in some cases. We're seeing two of them right now in Royce Freeman and Lindsay over in Denver. Two really productive backs in last years draft were taken in the 3rd round (Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara). Our Chris Carson was also productive in the games he played as a 7th round pick. Hell, the Broncos under Shannahan regularly turned nobodies into stars, that was their MO.


    Last year there were 26 RBs drafted in the 3rd round or later and you name 3 were who were good. Yeah history is full of late round RB that do well, it's also full of a lot more that aren't any good. Just because Carson is playing way above his 7rd draft position doesn't mean he is automatically the standard that any RB we draft earlier than that must live up to.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:18 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.


    Would Hernandez be that big of an upgrade? We're currently playing a back up at guard that just moved to the left side on the fly and we just ran for 190, and have 3 straight weeks with a 100+ yd rusher for the first time in 6 years.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:24 pm
  • Lets wind him up and turn em loose!
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:30 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.


    Penny’s durability, athleticism, field awareness, special teams and catching ability are all factors that suggest it is highly unlikely that he will be considered a “bust.” It was a low risk pick, if you didn’t begin with the expectation that he would be mentally/physically ready to play well as a rookie.

    I think he can certainly do some things well, right now. A fly sweep would be be a great usage his hands, speed, and field awareness. He can also catch passes out of the backfield on some 3rd downs. They should make things as simple as possible, so he feels comfortable enough to master two or three special plays. Giving him a whole series and expecting decisiveness and a perfect mastering of the offense doesn’t make sense at this stage in his development. But neither does not using him at all.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:43 pm
  • I don't see how I can possibly take seriously an argument where Ricky Watters is raised as the comp. that's an automatic false start.

    Penny may be fine. But it is legit worrisome because RB is the one position where the real deal backs drafted high (and low) come in and light it up routinely in the NFL.

    There are absolutely backs that improve as they go on. But the expectation for players drafted in the first round at this position is to see immediate contribution. Penny has only flashed on a couple of plays in pre and regular season. Carson was flashing all over his first year. This is not dispositive, but nor should it be waved away with mumbles about SA.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:52 pm
  • The fieldgulls article brought up Melvin Gordon. That seems like a really good comparator.

    Both were highly prolific runners at the college level. Both were running behind offensive lines and fullbacks who regularly opened up massive holes. Both ran through and around sluggish college defenses with ease. I was suspsicious of how easily both players would transition to the league for those reasons.

    Gordon was an even more highly touted and higher drafted RB than Penny. But what happened when he hit the NFL as a rookie? The speed differential from the Big Ten to the NFL was overwhelming. The holes were minuscule. As a result, he struggled with indecisiveness and averaged 3.5 YPC.

    Image

    Penny’s size and athletic traits are even better than Gordon’s. His vision, field awareness, and hands are comparable. He could certainly be as good in his 2nd, 3rd, 4th year.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:46 pm
  • T-Hawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.


    Would Hernandez be that big of an upgrade? We're currently playing a back up at guard that just moved to the left side on the fly and we just ran for 190, and have 3 straight weeks with a 100+ yd rusher for the first time in 6 years.


    Exactly. Everyone falls in love with their own player in the draft, and for a lot of people it was Hernandez - even though the offensive line is a strength of the team without him.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:02 pm
  • Here are a few quotes from Penny regarding his status and playing. To me it doesn't sound like a player who is lazy or has poor work ethic. It sounds more like a young player who got hurt, missed some time, and is working hard to catch up. Carson and Davis should be ahead of Penny at this time. I'd be more concerned, if they weren't. I think that he's 3rd string right now speaks more about Carson and Davis' abilities rather than Penny not performing well.

    “I didn’t play like half of the preseason and I didn’t practice, so I didn’t get an opportunity to run and make cuts when all of those other guys did. They had all that,” Penny said Tuesday. “I’m a rookie. It’s my first year, so it’s just something I have to get used to. I’m confident in myself that I can do the things they can, but like I said, they’ve got the hot hand and they’re great running backs in their own right. They’re doing amazing. They’re doing all the little things right, and when you do all the little things right it adds up to doing what they do in the games, and they’re playing well.”

    “I was never at 236 (pounds). I was never at 240,” said Penny, after Carroll casually mentioned to the media during training camp in August that the running back had weighed in at 236. “I was never big. It’s just how I am. At the combine I wasn’t even 220, so all the reports about all that is crazy. I’m at the weight I’m at now and I feel good. I’ve been feeling good since I stepped in Seattle. I feel like I’m at the best weight and I feel like I’m playing at the best weight.”

    Though, if you ask Penny, “frustrated” isn’t the right word. “I’m just more so ready,” Penny said. “It’s just another step to take. I know when I get my opportunity I won’t shy away from it.”

    For the full article -
    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/pete-carroll-calls-seahawks-rookie-rb-rashaad-penny-frustrated-and-i-want-him-to-be-frustrated/
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:21 pm
  • hawknation2018 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.


    Penny’s durability, athleticism, field awareness, special teams and catching ability are all factors that suggest it is highly unlikely that he will be considered a “bust.” It was a low risk pick, if you didn’t begin with the expectation that he would be mentally/physically ready to play well as a rookie.

    I think he can certainly do some things well, right now. A fly sweep would be be a great usage his hands, speed, and field awareness. He can also catch passes out of the backfield on some 3rd downs. They should make things as simple as possible, so he feels comfortable enough to master two or three special plays. Giving him a whole series and expecting decisiveness and a perfect mastering of the offense doesn’t make sense at this stage in his development. But neither does not using him at all.

    He should have been ready to play as a rookie and it's obvious that is what Pete expected of him early in the season. For the first two games Carson, and Penny were virtually even in carries even though Carson was slated as the starter. You don't take a running back that high just to have him be third string. You don't take a running back in the first if you don't think he'll be ready to play right away.

    Secondly Penny is not fast by NFL standards. The guy looks slow out there, and looking at his college tape he didn't look overly fast either. He doesn't play as fast as his 40 indicates, especially since he weighs around 15 pounds more than he did at the combine. His athleticism is nothing special by NFL standards. Despite his size he is not a physical runner, and is easily brought down by simple arm tackles. He has not demonstrated that he has the ability to make the first guy miss on a consistent basis as well. Carson, and Davis have the ability to either go through the first man, or make them miss. This is an essential skill for a running back. The best backs do this on a consistent basis. He also dances around behind the line of scrimmage too much, very indecisive as a runner.

    I'm going to state that Penny is going to be a bust, you can quote me on that. Feel free to bring it up if he has a good year down the road on the Seahawks. I'm getting some Trent Richardson vibes from this guy.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:27 pm
  • Well we spent a 1st on him so I am going to hope you are wrong.

    I saw some good stuff from him before the draft and during the preseason. But what I don't understand is why we are not using him in pass plays as an option. That was the whole damned reason I wanted him.

    I certainly am not going to root for it. We need him.

    I think he is physically behind, probably accounting for the # of articles mentioning or strongly implying he is in the doghouse because he came into the season in worse shape than they hoped. But that is again, fixable.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:20 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.

    I think it’s more of an issue to some that their “pet draftpicks” were not taken and their own ego’s are tied to that mentality.
    Saw it here years when the Hawks DIDN’T draft Mark Sanchez. Some here thought he was the second coming of Joe Montana!
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:04 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    rcaido wrote:Obviously Carson, Davis, & Prosise were questionable with their health...We really needed a RB, so we drafted one.

    The problem is Carson & Davis are playing amazing...That's a great problem to have.

    The issue people are having is the running back chosen, and the position at which he was taken (first round) -- especially since the Seahawks passed up some really good talent in areas of need to take Penny. Never liked the guys footage, even before we drafted him. I think his durability in college, return prowess at the NCAA level and pass catching abilities played a role in their decision making. They love those versatile players that can wear multiple different hats. Unfortunately they are blinded by players like this all too often, and are willing to overlook major red flags.

    Will Penny be a bust? I think so, but that is only my opinion. Even if he ends up decent my main gripe is we passed on some really good players that would've helped our team in an even greater capacity in the now, and future -- the main one being Hernandez.

    I think it’s more of an issue to some that their “pet draftpicks” were not taken and their own ego’s are tied to that mentality.
    Saw it here years when the Hawks DIDN’T draft Mark Sanchez. Some here thought he was the second coming of Joe Montana!


    Great post Sports Hernia. Nailed it! :2thumbs:
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:04 pm
  • To me it's nothing against the player himself, it's the use of a 1st on him. Didn't look great at senior bowl, got most of his huge yards on wide open runs, struggled to learn playbook. I know there were rumblings of him going to the Browns early round 2 and he was PC/JS guy, I just didn't necessarily like the pick. Certainly can prove me wrong, felt other RB's available were worth the pick. Penny was clearly a superior athlete compared to the players he was against in college, I just don't see a superior athlete at this level.

    Honestly wonder if Derwin James was their target, certainly felt that way with how the draft went to the Chargers taking right before they could.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:20 pm
  • IMO...Carroll went after an RB because of need and a lot of pressure to save his job...Carroll & co picked the wrong player with a 1st round pick. He's not playing because he's not as good as Carson or Davis... Carson was a 7th rounder and I think Davis went undrafted....1st rounders around the NFL are playing every game and most are starting...not Penny....why ?
    Carroll is trying to embarrass Penny into becoming an NFL RB....good luck with that Pete....I say play Penny hard and lets see what he's got....or admit that maybe Penny wasn't close to being a 1st rounder.....IMO.... :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:51 pm
  • xray wrote:IMO...Carroll went after an RB because of need and a lot of pressure to save his job...Carroll & co picked the wrong player with a 1st round pick. He's not playing because he's not as good as Carson or Davis... Carson was a 7th rounder and I think Davis went undrafted....1st rounders around the NFL are playing every game and most are starting...not Penny....why ?
    Carroll is trying to embarrass Penny into becoming an NFL RB....good luck with that Pete....I say play Penny hard and lets see what he's got....or admit that maybe Penny wasn't close to being a 1st rounder.....IMO.... :irishdrinkers:


    I think Penny can become a solid player with the right guidance and some time under his belt in the system. He has the tools, they just need to be tuned up for the NFL.

    Also Davis was a 4th Round Pick.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:05 pm
  • I’m less concerned about Penny and the running game than what’s going on currently with the DL. They drafted two DL guys with their first couple of picks in the past two years and neither is significantly contributing thus far. One’s done with his nfl career and the other has barely started but seems to be injury prone. The weakest part of the team is their pass rush and those they have picked to help seem to be better suited for an infirmary.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:19 pm
  • Carson a 7th rounder, Davis a 4th rounder, Adrian Foster was undrafted. Mark Ingram was a first rounder also and we could go on and on and on about 1ST busts. So by your objectivity, every Receiver we bring in that is a draft pick should be able to walk in and take Baldwins spot on the roster, same can be said for every 1st round QB that we bring in or 2nd rounder since Wilson is a third rounder.


    Pete wants Penny hungry, Penny has skills, needs confidence and a chance, needs to adapt to NFL speed for his cuts, he is a different type of runner then Carson and Davis. If there is a back on the roster that resembles what Alexander did it is Penny as far as running, Penny just has a much more complete game then Alexander ever did.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:06 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:I’m less concerned about Penny and the running game than what’s going on currently with the DL. They drafted two DL guys with their first couple of picks in the past two years and neither is significantly contributing thus far. One’s done with his nfl career and the other has barely started but seems to be injury prone. The weakest part of the team is their pass rush and those they have picked to help seem to be better suited for an infirmary.


    So a Green gets an ankle sprain and he's injury prone? He pretty much played most of the preseason and 3 regular season games. Ankle sprains happen. Not like he tore his ACL. Hanging out in the trenches always puts the ankles at risk. It's a fluke thing. Sometimes you get rolled up and there is not much you can do.

    Green will improve and I think he's got good potential. I agree we are a stud pass rusher from being really good on defense but I'm sure that's the plan for next year. Re-sign Clark, Green will be a year better and then try to grab a FA or new draft pick.

    It's too bad it 's not happening this year but you can hardly fix everything especially when you are always in the bottom half of round one. You don't get a crack at the Joey Bosa types at 22.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:10 am
  • Seymour wrote:Carson and Davis are "good players". Penny was drafted in a position to expect to become a "great player" and it's not unreasonable to use that as the standard.

    I'm not liking what I'm seeing and hearing (and not seeing) at this time and point myself. I'm not worried because I've come to expect blown early picks from this staff myself.


    There is no reason Carson can't be a "great" player, he has certainly shown evidence that he might be, albeit in limited sample size. Of course he could end up another Thomas Rawls, who appeared to be a "great" player before fading off after injury. The good news is that Carson appears to have come back from his injury just as good if not better than in his rookie campaign.

    But similarly, Penny has had a limited sample size too, so there's no way to tell either way.



    When Lynch came to Seattle his first season was littered with ineffective games, and it wasn't until the Saints playoff game where he really broke through.

    That first season he had games of 17 carries for 44 yards, 9 carries for 7 yards, 13 carries for 29 yards, 7 carries for 20 yards, 10 carries for 29 yards - all less than 3YPC.

    Even going into the first half of 2011 he had a terrible start, 13 for 33, 6 for 11, 19 for 73 (not terrible but not great), 8 for 24 in his first 4 games, another game later 16 carries for 24 yards.

    Given Lynch turned into one of the greatest backs in team history, I'm willing to give Penny the benefit of the doubt longer than 4 games before writing him off completely.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:25 am
  • themunn wrote:I'm willing to give Penny the benefit of the doubt longer than 4 games before writing him off completely.


    On this site I'm not sure that is allowed.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:05 am
  • hawknation2018 wrote:This is a pretty good article. It’s anecdotal, but I’ll take what I can get.

    That context you might be overlooking or forgetting is the careers of almost every significant back in the last decade. I don’t even need to pull back farther than that — and if I did, we’d go back to an era where it was always assumed that running backs needed at least a year to get up to NFL speed. (Remember that Shaun Alexander was a backup to Ricky Watters.) I think backs still need time to get caught up to the speed of the pros.

    The proof is in the careers of these backs. And the context that you’ve forgotten about their career starts is now provided.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldg ... n-bell-nfl


    The worst examples the author could come up with were all still much more of a factor in their teams offense than Penny has been. What Penny is doing as a first round running back is rare and not in a good way. I still think he can be a very good player but so far the pick looks bad. First round running backs aren't high return picks unless they're great especially when you're a team with multiple holes. It seemed like a Pete type of pick where he trumps the room. Anyway I sound negative but I'm optimistic Penny can be very good good.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:25 am
  • Penny’s only problem is he’s not the second coming of Barry Sanders, in week 5, of his rookie season, after missing half of training camp.

    We have a running game again! Our offense scores points again! Be happy!

    ...Or just complain some guy on our bench is not some other guy on our bench. Or that we should have drafted that one guy that’s doing well on another team in another system. Or that we didn’t have enough draft picks. Or that any of our draft picks that don’t make the pro bowl by year two are busts.

    If I wasn’t a fan of this team, I’d say let’s cut Penny so the whiners can watch him come into his own on another team, but then I suppose they’d just call our FO — that took a garbage team and turned it into a SB Winner — idiots and complain some more.

    Why is it that some people can’t draw a breath without finding something else to bitch about?
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:31 am
  • themunn wrote:
    Seymour wrote:Carson and Davis are "good players". Penny was drafted in a position to expect to become a "great player" and it's not unreasonable to use that as the standard.

    I'm not liking what I'm seeing and hearing (and not seeing) at this time and point myself. I'm not worried because I've come to expect blown early picks from this staff myself.


    There is no reason Carson can't be a "great" player, he has certainly shown evidence that he might be, albeit in limited sample size. Of course he could end up another Thomas Rawls, who appeared to be a "great" player before fading off after injury. The good news is that Carson appears to have come back from his injury just as good if not better than in his rookie campaign.

    But similarly, Penny has had a limited sample size too, so there's no way to tell either way.



    When Lynch came to Seattle his first season was littered with ineffective games, and it wasn't until the Saints playoff game where he really broke through.

    That first season he had games of 17 carries for 44 yards, 9 carries for 7 yards, 13 carries for 29 yards, 7 carries for 20 yards, 10 carries for 29 yards - all less than 3YPC.

    Even going into the first half of 2011 he had a terrible start, 13 for 33, 6 for 11, 19 for 73 (not terrible but not great), 8 for 24 in his first 4 games, another game later 16 carries for 24 yards.

    Given Lynch turned into one of the greatest backs in team history, I'm willing to give Penny the benefit of the doubt longer than 4 games before writing him off completely.


    Not once have I said Penny was a bust or "completely written him off", and in fact I have yet to read 1 person saying they wrote him off completely. People are saying he was a poor pick for the 1st round because he is holding the bench down, appears slow and most don't believe a finger issue or missed training camp will slow a players speed down.
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Re: Penny frustrated, Pete likes it.
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:36 am
  • I will say give Penny time, maybe he will be great, maybe good, maybe bad and maybe a bust. But one season does not define a player even if he doesn't do well. I mean just look at Gurley, he had a great rookie year but his second year wasn't very good less than 900 rushing yards, 3.2 ypc, 6 TD's and few big plays. Then Gurley followed it up with last year, I remember 2 years ago some wondered if Gurley was really as good as he first seemed.

    So give Penny time, if he doesn't produce during his 3rd year, then it is time to worry. With that said, I get why people are frustrated with his lack of production so far.
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