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Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:17 pm
  • I thought the game had passed Pete by? I thought he lost the locker room? I thought his style no longer translated to the wide open modern NFL?

    You guys sure are quiet now. What a surprise.

    Pete has overcome injuries, massive roster turnover, young inexperienced players, while also integrating new coordinators and their schemes. He has taken a beat up roster of castoffs, late round picks, and young players and got them playing hard and fast. If he can get this squad to the playoffs he deserves Coach of the Year...

    ...and yet you wanted him fired.
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pete Carrol
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:20 pm
  • Always gunna be haters.
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Re: Pete Carrol
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:21 pm
  • Yeah was thinking the same thing

    These ridiculous fire Pete Carrol threads, just plain out right amusing.

    After watching Pete Carrol coach the team for the last 8 and half years , you would have think that they would figured out, that Pete Carrol coached teams are always competitive
    Last edited by warden on Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pete Carrol
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:23 pm
  • Apparently it’s mean to point the errors of the Debbie Downers ways. They can slander our coaches and players mercilessly but if we suggest they are being foolish and don’t know anything, we are the cruel minded ones.

    Pete knows more about football than anyone else here and has had unbelievable success at all levels of the sport. The disrespect this year was mind blowing. Dude can coach the Hawks until he retires, as I’ve said previously.
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Re: Pete Carrol
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:25 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:Apparently it’s mean to point the errors of the Debbie Downers ways. They can slander our coaches and players mercilessly but if we suggest they are being foolish and don’t know anything, we are the cruel minded ones.

    Pete knows more about football than anyone else here and has had unbelievable success at all levels of the sport. The disrespect this year was mind blowing. Dude can coach the Hawks until he retires, as I’ve said previously.


    +1. In Pete I Trust.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:36 pm
  • Lets be honest though...

    Pete has returned to what brought him early success. The last couple years were ragged and inconsistent.

    Detractors weren't wrong, maybe just a bit too impatient to give Pete the chance to change
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Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:37 pm
  • Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:39 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.


    Yes... all overreactions
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:41 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    I don't think it was wrong as much as it was premature. People that have complained have done so with reason. The problem, as it always is, is that everyone thinks things should turn around so damn quick. No one is patient anymore.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:47 pm
  • They can complain without making statements like those. Saying they had concerns that the team had wasted some opportunities would have been justified. Saying they weren’t optimistic about the team right now but were willing to see if the changes made since last season would make any difference would have been justified.

    Those statements were not justified.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:48 pm
  • A brutal schedule to start off the season with five of your first seven games on the road. Especially with all the turn over and injuries this team had to endure. But we have a winning record. Let's not forget, if we hit the month of December in the running for a wild card spot, the schedule becomes extremely favorable with 4 of the five games we play in December been at home. A strong November puts us in great shape. Awesome coaching job
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:49 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:50 pm
  • I had an emotianal reaction to the crappy play early in the season. I like what I am seeing now though. I love watching this team. Pete is proving that he has earned at least another year to see if he can return the team to glory.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:54 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    This IS Pete Ball. Pete wants balance. He wants play action. He wants explosive plays. He wants the D to avoid giving up big plays. He wants to win turnover ratio. These are things he’s been talking about for 18 years now. The specifics on offense and defense may change, the philosophy does not.

    People claiming otherwise have simply not been paying attention.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:00 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    This IS Pete Ball. Pete wants balance. He wants play action. He wants explosive plays. He wants the D to avoid giving up big plays. He wants to win turnover ratio. These are things he’s been talking about for 18 years now. The specifics on offense and defense may change, the philosophy does not.

    People claiming otherwise have simply not been paying attention.

    This is not Pete ball, and not what Carroll has been doing for years. "Pete Ball" was a moniker that was used to mock his offenses. He was abandoning the run even when it was working, and using long developing plays, and deep passes. He was also completely ignoring the play action until the RAMS games. Right now we're running the ball close to 60 percent of the time, and we're using a lot of short passes to move the chains. This is the antithesis to what Pete has been doing since 2015 and to some extent 2014. This looks more like Holmgren during 2005, and less like an offense that belongs in the 70s.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:05 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    This IS Pete Ball. Pete wants balance. He wants play action. He wants explosive plays. He wants the D to avoid giving up big plays. He wants to win turnover ratio. These are things he’s been talking about for 18 years now. The specifics on offense and defense may change, the philosophy does not.

    People claiming otherwise have simply not been paying attention.

    This is not Pete ball, and not what Carroll has been doing for years. "Pete Ball" was a moniker that was used to mock his offenses. He was abandoning the run even when it was working, and using long developing plays, and deep passes. He was also completely ignoring the play action until the RAMS games. Right now we're running the ball close to 60 percent of the time, and we're using a lot of short passes to move the chains. This is the antithesis to what Pete has been doing since 2015 and to some extent 2014. This looks more like Holmgren during 2005, and less like an offense that belongs in the 70s.

    You didn’t really read what I wrote. I don’t care what you and others want to call Pete Ball. This IS it from a philosophical standpoint. Specifics change. Philosophy doesn’t. Pete never used shotgun or pistol at USC. He never used read option until Russell was drafted. Those are specifics.

    Running the ball. Balance on offense. Play action. Explosive plays. Etc. That is Pete Ball.
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Re: Pete Carrol
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:07 pm
  • ballhawks12 wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:Apparently it’s mean to point the errors of the Debbie Downers ways. They can slander our coaches and players mercilessly but if we suggest they are being foolish and don’t know anything, we are the cruel minded ones.

    Pete knows more about football than anyone else here and has had unbelievable success at all levels of the sport. The disrespect this year was mind blowing. Dude can coach the Hawks until he retires, as I’ve said previously.


    +1. In Pete I Trust.


    Same here, I am a Pete Carroll homer.

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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:09 pm
  • Thunderhawk wrote:I thought the game had passed Pete by? I thought he lost the locker room? I thought his style no longer translated to the wide open modern NFL?

    You guys sure are quiet now. What a surprise.

    Pete has overcome injuries, massive roster turnover, young inexperienced players, while also integrating new coordinators and their schemes. He has taken a beat up roster of castoffs, late round picks, and young players and got them playing hard and fast. If he can get this squad to the playoffs he deserves Coach of the Year...

    ...and yet you wanted him fired.


    Dumb post, he was part of the problem, and he finally took himself out of the offensive game play and now were winning again. Problem is, it took him 3 years to figure out he wasn't the guy that should be in that position. He's good at defense and good at playing with an offense that runs the ball, same thing when we were the best team in the league.

    Glad he figured it out but it shouldn't have taken this long honestly.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:19 pm
  • This is cute.

    They beat the mighty Lions and some of you want to pound your chest.

    Sure.

    I have no complaints about this game, but lets not pretend that we have not been subjected to outright garbage football for the past few years. This was one of the few games where we actually looked like we were trying to score instead of run the clock down.

    That was the reason Pete was a nightmare.

    That said, he had a great game. Let's see if we can continue the streak against teams that will end up with a better than .500 record at the end of the year.

    What Pete was doing was not only not working but it was ugly, terrible, boring football that was actually resulting in losses. We seem to have changed our tactics and I am all for actually trying to score in the 1st half or actually attempting to score TDs instead FGs.

    If this change continues, I will have no complaints. But to imply there was no reason to be upset is ridiculous.

    Still, losing Paul changed everything. We no longer have assured excellence, so losing Pete would be a greater risk. The moment Allen was gone, any ideas to change from Pete had to be shelved.

    While beating the Lions on a 10 am away game is an accomplishment, it is not validation that looking at options other than Pete was somehow misplaced. Because Pete's brand of football was god awful to watch. We needed a change and hopefully, he has changed.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:27 pm
  • sc85sis wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    This IS Pete Ball. Pete wants balance. He wants play action. He wants explosive plays. He wants the D to avoid giving up big plays. He wants to win turnover ratio. These are things he’s been talking about for 18 years now. The specifics on offense and defense may change, the philosophy does not.

    People claiming otherwise have simply not been paying attention.

    This is not Pete ball, and not what Carroll has been doing for years. "Pete Ball" was a moniker that was used to mock his offenses. He was abandoning the run even when it was working, and using long developing plays, and deep passes. He was also completely ignoring the play action until the RAMS games. Right now we're running the ball close to 60 percent of the time, and we're using a lot of short passes to move the chains. This is the antithesis to what Pete has been doing since 2015 and to some extent 2014. This looks more like Holmgren during 2005, and less like an offense that belongs in the 70s.

    You didn’t really read what I wrote. I don’t care what you and others want to call Pete Ball. This IS it from a philosophical standpoint. Specifics change. Philosophy doesn’t. Pete never used shotgun or pistol at USC. He never used read option until Russell was drafted. Those are specifics.

    Running the ball. Balance on offense. Play action. Explosive plays. Etc. That is Pete Ball.

    Except Pete hasn't even tried to run that offense style since 2013 and some of 2014. For most of his career as a Seahawk we have not been playing this "Pete Ball" that you speak of.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:30 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    Our Super Bowl winning football didn't use low-percentage deep balls?

    Okay. :roll:

    My big angle on the whole thing was that if Pete doesn't have the horses to run his play style, he should try a different play style. What changed was, he got the horses. He went out and got Brown, Fluker, and Sweezy. He hired Schottenheimer to capitalize on Wilson's play-action prowess. He ensured a RB presence by keeping Carson and Davis while drafting Penny. He found David Moore.

    If you've got that kind of talent on the O, you should run the ball.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:40 pm
  • Pete is a sloppy coach. His teams are going to commit dumb penalties, they are predictable. But they play rough football and win most of the time. The only black mark on his tenure is keeping Tom Cable.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:59 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Lets be honest though...

    Pete has returned to what brought him early success. The last couple years were ragged and inconsistent.

    Detractors weren't wrong, maybe just a bit too impatient to give Pete the chance to change


    I'm not sure how much of the ragged play in the last few years can be attributed to Pete. He's the coach so the buck stops with him, but as one ex Seaahwk coach used to say, you play the hand you were dealt. I was struck watching the game today when they put up the list of running backs we've gone through since Marshawn left. Add the terrible Oline play and you get a ragged few seasons. And yes, Pete and the coaches put that team together and are responsible for that, but I wonder how many other coaches squeeze out getting to the playoffs and then 9 and 7 with those players?

    Not giving Pete a pass, just laying out the extenuating circumstances he had to overcome, while recognizing he put some of the roadblocks in his own way.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:02 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    Our Super Bowl winning football didn't use low-percentage deep balls?

    Okay. :roll:

    My big angle on the whole thing was that if Pete doesn't have the horses to run his play style, he should try a different play style. What changed was, he got the horses. He went out and got Brown, Fluker, and Sweezy. He hired Schottenheimer to capitalize on Wilson's play-action prowess. He ensured a RB presence by keeping Carson and Davis while drafting Penny. He found David Moore.

    If you've got that kind of talent on the O, you should run the ball.


    I remember Baldwins catches against the 9ers, Broncos and the next year the Packers. Or chris matthews against the patriots. And sure looked like Wilson threw some up today.

    If anything, "Pete Ball" has just returned to more balance.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:34 pm
  • They had a huge amount of question marks coming into this season, Pete sticking his nose in the offense was a problem, Cables system and coaching was a problem, Bevell's play calling and noodle back bone was a problem. Pissed off players due to the previous issues were a problem, Letting pissed of players go was looked at as a problem due to who would be replacing them then we had injured players, not just injured but career ending injured players.


    Just about every one of those problems have been fixed with maybe the exception of the depth we have, that will come. With all those issues and changes and where we are and what we have shown how can anyone say we have a Front Office or head coaching issue ?
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:00 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    Our Super Bowl winning football didn't use low-percentage deep balls?

    Okay. :roll:

    My big angle on the whole thing was that if Pete doesn't have the horses to run his play style, he should try a different play style. What changed was, he got the horses. He went out and got Brown, Fluker, and Sweezy. He hired Schottenheimer to capitalize on Wilson's play-action prowess. He ensured a RB presence by keeping Carson and Davis while drafting Penny. He found David Moore.

    If you've got that kind of talent on the O, you should run the ball.

    Yes our Super Bowl team did, notice how I said that we haven't played this style of offense since our Super Bowl year? We also kept the chains moving during that season with high percentage passes. What changed is we became a pass heavy offense. Yes we attacked the Lions deep a few times today, but notice how we also had a bunch of short passes as well. Pete has the tendency to want to attack the defenses deep without building up to it. He also has the tendency to abandon the run at times. THAT is what people were calling Pete ball. What we saw against the Denver Broncos.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:19 pm
  • I've been a Pete "hater" and was pleasantly surprised by this win. I didn't think that the Oakland win meant all that much but going on the road to win a 10 am game against a decent Lions team is impressive. I hope that I have to eat crow. BUT this idea that fans can't criticize this coaching staff is ridiculous. Pete and John have made a bunch of mistakes, mistakes that prevented this team from being a dynasty. Let's see how things go this season. I really hope that we keep on playing the way we're playing and that we have a great season. But there are a lot of legit criticisms of this team that people expressed.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:23 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    Our Super Bowl winning football didn't use low-percentage deep balls?

    Okay. :roll:

    My big angle on the whole thing was that if Pete doesn't have the horses to run his play style, he should try a different play style. What changed was, he got the horses. He went out and got Brown, Fluker, and Sweezy. He hired Schottenheimer to capitalize on Wilson's play-action prowess. He ensured a RB presence by keeping Carson and Davis while drafting Penny. He found David Moore.

    If you've got that kind of talent on the O, you should run the ball.

    Yes our Super Bowl team did, notice how I said that we haven't played this style of offense since our Super Bowl year? We also kept the chains moving during that season with high percentage passes. What changed is we became a pass heavy offense. Yes we attacked the Lions deep a few times today, but notice how we also had a bunch of short passes as well. Pete has the tendency to want to attack the defenses deep without building up to it. He also has the tendency to abandon the run at times. THAT is what people were calling Pete ball. What we saw against the Denver Broncos.


    You say Pete but I think it was a lot of Bevell wanting a Harvin Rice type offense, they went for a lot of deep balls there also and got away with it. We have pointed out the inept ability of Bevells route trees over the years and the dependency of the bubble screen all the time. Schotty has the Coryell passing tree and use of TE's in his offense, that sets things up much better since there are many options they have to be ready for.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:24 pm
  • Let me know when we beat a playoff team... comedy
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:30 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    sc85sis wrote:Calling for him to be fired and saying the game had passed him by was wrong. Disparagingly referring to “Pete Ball” was wrong.

    This isn't what people are referring to as "Pete Ball". Pete ball an offensive philosophy that ignored the short and immediate routes for low percentage long balls. That is what we played since 2015. This brand of football is distinctly different from even our Super Bowl winning ball. Lot of under the center running/passing, and motion that wasn't there before before. Our usage of TE's has also been completely different under Schottenheimer. We're also using a lot more short routes. Our offense is starting to look much different than anything under Bevell or Bates. I wonder if more control was given to Schottenheimer?

    The thing with Pete that you always have to look out for though is a regression to the mean. Carroll always has the tendency to go back to the fk it im going deep sort of offense. His deal is he just needs to stay out of the offense and let his offensive coordinator handle things. When he does that we're fine, when he interferes we can't get out of our own way. Most people don't mind a run dominated offense, what they do mind is a passing game that ignores everything but one aspect, an offense that lacks nuance. That isn't this offense right now.


    Our Super Bowl winning football didn't use low-percentage deep balls?

    Okay. :roll:

    My big angle on the whole thing was that if Pete doesn't have the horses to run his play style, he should try a different play style. What changed was, he got the horses. He went out and got Brown, Fluker, and Sweezy. He hired Schottenheimer to capitalize on Wilson's play-action prowess. He ensured a RB presence by keeping Carson and Davis while drafting Penny. He found David Moore.

    If you've got that kind of talent on the O, you should run the ball.


    100% this.

    You want to pound the ball yet you put projects everywhere.

    Not getting the horses and drinking the cable kool aid (the two were inextricably intertwined) when your entire plan is rushing and play action was all Pete and a huge Achilles heel.

    When he gets an actual OL coach and players his desired offensive identity is right back to working.

    His defensive coaching has always been a strength.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:51 pm
  • Pete gets a free pass for life from me.I hope he goes out on his terms. His team came out competitive from the first game of the year and I love the type of football he coaches. Win or lose his team plays hard for him.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:53 pm
  • Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah blah! Blahhhhhhhhhhh.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:56 pm
  • Is Pete's coaching improved or is Russ clicking more with the offensive scheme via the new coordinator?

    Pete still has his faults, we all do, but he also deserves credit for putting in people (finally!) who appear to be getting it done.

    If we make the playoffs, Pete deserves even more credit for turning around a somewhat sinking ship and I'll be among the first to say it.

    Until then lets enjoy the victories.

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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:00 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:Is Pete's coaching improved or is Russ clicking more with the offensive scheme via the new coordinator?

    Pete still has his faults, we all do, but he also deserves credit for putting in people (finally!) who appear to be getting it done.

    If we make the playoffs, Pete deserves even more credit for turning around a somewhat sinking ship and I'll be among the first to say it.

    Until then lets enjoy the victories.

    GO HAWKS!


    Pete maybe not over coaching as in getting his nose into the offense, Wilson feeling more comfortable and "TRUSTING" Schotty's calls and scheme is a big thing also I think and knowing it much better now.


    Also Pete trusting Schotty's calls helps him keep his nose out of things also.

    Petes biggest success was addition by subtraction this year, his replacments have shown it may not have been talent but the use and schemes that talent was put in.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:01 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:Is Pete's coaching improved or is Russ clicking more with the offensive scheme via the new coordinator?

    Pete still has his faults, we all do, but he also deserves credit for putting in people (finally!) who appear to be getting it done.

    If we make the playoffs, Pete deserves even more credit for turning around a somewhat sinking ship and I'll be among the first to say it.

    Until then lets enjoy the victories.

    GO HAWKS!


    Pete maybe not over coaching as in getting his nose into the offense, Wilson feeling more comfortable and "TRUSTING" Schotty's calls and scheme is a big thing also I think and knowing it much better now.


    Also Pete trusting Schotty's calls helps him keep his nose out of things also.

    Petes biggest success was addition by subtraction this year, his replacments have shown it may not have been talent but the use and schemes that talent was put in.


    Again, well said.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:08 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:Is Pete's coaching improved or is Russ clicking more with the offensive scheme via the new coordinator?



    GO HAWKS!


    The additions of Sweezy, Flucker and a blocking TE are having a huge impact on the teams success.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:08 pm
  • NFSeahawks628 wrote:Dumb post, he was part of the problem, and he finally took himself out of the offensive game play and now were winning again. Problem is, it took him 3 years to figure out he wasn't the guy that should be in that position. He's good at defense and good at playing with an offense that runs the ball, same thing when we were the best team in the league.

    Glad he figured it out but it shouldn't have taken this long honestly.


    Which player or coach are you again?
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:57 pm
  • You will miss him when he is gone.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:54 pm
  • It's simple really. Pete thrives in a "Compete" philosophy with young players. It's effective to them because they are young and hungry. When you deal with the elders in the NFL like the Shermans and Bennetts of the world, they have heard the same messaging so they tend to ignore it and even mock it as we found out.

    That's not on Pete, that's on them. I love what those two gave us as players in their prime but their comments after they left showed their true characters as human beings and for that I am sad for them. I will celebrate them as Seahawks and Ring of Honor recipients perhaps but I will never like how they acted when they left the team. Ever.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:13 am
  • Shoot, as bad as things were looking after going 0-2, Pete has proven yet again that he's one hell of a coach and motivator.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:26 am
  • NFSeahawks628 wrote:
    Thunderhawk wrote:I thought the game had passed Pete by? I thought he lost the locker room? I thought his style no longer translated to the wide open modern NFL?

    You guys sure are quiet now. What a surprise.

    Pete has overcome injuries, massive roster turnover, young inexperienced players, while also integrating new coordinators and their schemes. He has taken a beat up roster of castoffs, late round picks, and young players and got them playing hard and fast. If he can get this squad to the playoffs he deserves Coach of the Year...

    ...and yet you wanted him fired.


    Dumb post, he was part of the problem, and he finally took himself out of the offensive game play and now were winning again. Problem is, it took him 3 years to figure out he wasn't the guy that should be in that position. He's good at defense and good at playing with an offense that runs the ball, same thing when we were the best team in the league.

    Glad he figured it out but it shouldn't have taken this long honestly.


    ^ This.

    Any fault on PC for the last three years was completely legitimate in my eyes. He refused to hold his coaches accountable for their mistakes, and kept them for far too long. Anyone who complained had that right.

    Now he realized his mistakes and has hopefully corrected in time for another potential run. We will see. It's looking real good, but we are just under half way thru this season. I am optimistic, but there is still a lot of football left.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:45 am
  • There is no arguing the offense was trending down for a few seasons and kept alive by a historic defense (Pete's strength). The long ball stopped working when defenses didn't have to worry about play action and would only hit once in awhile. This led to the insanely frustrating 3 and outs, 3rd and 8+s, struggling to break 100 yards in a half with occasional wizard Russell plays. Chris Carson is the first RB to break 400 yards in what, 2-3 seasons? For a team who wanted to be smash mouth, ball control, + toxic differential that certainly wouldn't cut it.

    However, Pete did the right thing this year blowing up the roster/coaching staff and getting the horses he needs to run his style. Anyone who thought the game passed him by was mistaken and was quite the overreaction considering the team missed 10 wins last year (possibly 1-2 more) by a kicker. The style was a mix-mash of power run and spread personnel and they couldn't figure out what they wanted to do. It honestly seemed like there were 2 different schemes being run, alternating every drive. The addition of Sweezy, Brown and Fluker have been amazing (and Solari, FU Cable), I swear those guys have been smashing defensive linemen before they know the ball is snapped. Britt has also developed into a terrific C and Carson looks to be a 1400 yard RB.

    It was silly to think the team would come out firing with all the roster turnover and it is a credit to him and the coaching staff to get these guys cruising already. Pete's style works, proven to keep them competitive in every game, and only Belichick has had the same success over extended periods during this era. Happy to watch him ride out his coaching career with the Seahawks til he wants to hang it up.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:51 am
  • Thunderhawk wrote:I thought the game had passed Pete by? I thought he lost the locker room? I thought his style no longer translated to the wide open modern NFL?

    You guys sure are quiet now. What a surprise.

    Pete has overcome injuries, massive roster turnover, young inexperienced players, while also integrating new coordinators and their schemes. He has taken a beat up roster of castoffs, late round picks, and young players and got them playing hard and fast. If he can get this squad to the playoffs he deserves Coach of the Year...

    ...and yet you wanted him fired.




    Fans had the right to be disgusted with the start of this season as Pete was too with himself. Also too when paired with the context of how the team had looked on offense the previous 2 seasons, and it makes sense why the thought of "fire Pete" was starting to percolate.

    I myself only wanted him fired if the downward trend of the previous few seasons was still continuing by the end of the year, as it appeared to be heading that way.

    Pete turned it around. Pete agrees with me, the start of the season was unacceptable. The criticism was warranted.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:49 am
  • Good post Fade. Nailed the combination of poor start and downward trends of the previous seasons.

    Credit to PC for turning it around. I see some are saying it's as easy as getting out of his own way, but I imagine that had to be difficult after being let down by Bevell and Cable for so long.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:51 am
  • And calling himself out, loving that too.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:25 am
  • Fade wrote:
    Thunderhawk wrote:I thought the game had passed Pete by? I thought he lost the locker room? I thought his style no longer translated to the wide open modern NFL?

    You guys sure are quiet now. What a surprise.

    Pete has overcome injuries, massive roster turnover, young inexperienced players, while also integrating new coordinators and their schemes. He has taken a beat up roster of castoffs, late round picks, and young players and got them playing hard and fast. If he can get this squad to the playoffs he deserves Coach of the Year...

    ...and yet you wanted him fired.




    Fans had the right to be disgusted with the start of this season as Pete was too with himself. Also too when paired with the context of how the team had looked on offense the previous 2 seasons, and it makes sense why the thought of "fire Pete" was starting to percolate.

    I myself only wanted him fired if the downward trend of the previous few seasons was still continuing by the end of the year, as it appeared to be heading that way.

    Pete turned it around. Pete agrees with me, the start of the season was unacceptable. The criticism was warranted.

    So losing two games on the road by a combined 10 points against decent football teams when we were injured, installing new schemes, and adjusting to new personnel is enough to demand that one of the best coaches in football history be fired? Does proven championship success not matter? Does massive roster turnover not matter? Do injuries and holdouts not matter? We didn't lose those games by double digits. We were competitive despite all the challenges.

    Context is your friend.

    The reamaining schedule is brutal and we still have a roster in flux so we're going to drop a few more games. No doubt the haters will enjoy their schadenfreude, but Carroll is gradually rebuilding the beast and I'm excited.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:41 am
  • Fade wrote:
    Thunderhawk wrote:I thought the game had passed Pete by? I thought he lost the locker room? I thought his style no longer translated to the wide open modern NFL?

    You guys sure are quiet now. What a surprise.

    Pete has overcome injuries, massive roster turnover, young inexperienced players, while also integrating new coordinators and their schemes. He has taken a beat up roster of castoffs, late round picks, and young players and got them playing hard and fast. If he can get this squad to the playoffs he deserves Coach of the Year...

    ...and yet you wanted him fired.




    Fans had the right to be disgusted with the start of this season as Pete was too with himself. Also too when paired with the context of how the team had looked on offense the previous 2 seasons, and it makes sense why the thought of "fire Pete" was starting to percolate.

    I myself only wanted him fired if the downward trend of the previous few seasons was still continuing by the end of the year, as it appeared to be heading that way.

    Pete turned it around. Pete agrees with me, the start of the season was unacceptable. The criticism was warranted.


    Yes Pete surely was ready to fire himself after those first two games.

    There is being critical, i.e. pointing out the play calling as a problem and then there is being hell bent on putting the coach on a stake and burning him a la the Salem Witch Trials. Most of the downer crowd went far beyond being ticked at the play calling and were all ready to string Pete and John up.

    The "unless he turns things around" narrative is a convenient out as most of the posts I read were convinced he was incapable of turning things around. Some revisionist history is taking place here.

    But lose to the Chargers on Sunday and the naysayers will be back in force ready to kill the Golden Goose once again. Human nature is nothing if not predictable.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:48 am
  • Except that isn't the reason we 'needed' to fire Pete.

    We needed to get rid of him because we have one of the worst offenses in the league with one of the better QBs in the league (hopefully).

    Pete is not sticking around much longer. We have from 1-3 years more tops.

    Wilson is potentially a looming decision, and we need someone that can win with him as a focal point IF we end up keeping Wilson. Since we need to know if Wilson can be the primary driver, and since Pete has shown he has not really been able to build a great offense with Wilson as the primary driver - it made sense that we needed to look at options other than Pete.

    Not because he was failing, though that was a contributing factor, but because he was almost assuredly gone anyway.

    And the brand of Pete's football we have gotten for 2.5 years has been near unwatchable garbage for 1/2 to 3/4 of the game. Again signaling a need to review whether a change made sense.

    One good game does not really change that set of issues, though several good games might. So far at least we have a better indication that things might be getting better.

    But with the changes given the loss of Allen, we don't have much choice. Losing our owner means ratcheting your expectations plans way back.

    Ultimately the issues have changed. Paul being gone means there is no reason to expect the next hire to be good. And given the massive change with ownership in flux, we are not likely getting a great coach if we need a replacement. Too much uncertainty. So sticking with Pete for as long as we can ride him is the most reasonable move forward.

    But let's not conflate venting about issues with this team and the realization that we have some big changes coming that might require preparation, some of which will likely require making a bet on Pete for a few more years or a bet on Wilson.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:10 am
  • So.. don't conflate the present but conflate the past? the team won 10, 10 and 9 games over those 3 years. Wilson was throwing for record numbers.

    It wasn't working. PC has made a change that has been mutually beneficial to Wilson, the offense, the defense and the results are there to be seen.

    The present should not be dismissed so easily. PC may only be here for the next 3-5 years. I imagine that Wilson will be too. If PC does go, then I'd imagine a head coach with his similar philosophy would be brought in.
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Re: Pete Carroll
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:17 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Except that isn't the reason we 'needed' to fire Pete.

    We needed to get rid of him because we have one of the worst offenses in the league with one of the better QBs in the league (hopefully).

    Pete is not sticking around much longer. We have from 1-3 years more tops.

    Wilson is potentially a looming decision, and we need someone that can win with him as a focal point IF we end up keeping Wilson. Since we need to know if Wilson can be the primary driver, and since Pete has shown he has not really been able to build a great offense with Wilson as the primary driver - it made sense that we needed to look at options other than Pete.

    Not because he was failing, though that was a contributing factor, but because he was almost assuredly gone anyway.

    And the brand of Pete's football we have gotten for 2.5 years has been near unwatchable garbage for 1/2 to 3/4 of the game. Again signaling a need to review whether a change made sense.

    One good game does not really change that set of issues, though several good games might. So far at least we have a better indication that things might be getting better.

    But with the changes given the loss of Allen, we don't have much choice. Losing our owner means ratcheting your expectations plans way back.

    Ultimately the issues have changed. Paul being gone means there is no reason to expect the next hire to be good. And given the massive change with ownership in flux, we are not likely getting a great coach if we need a replacement. Too much uncertainty. So sticking with Pete for as long as we can ride him is the most reasonable move forward.

    But let's not conflate venting about issues with this team and the realization that we have some big changes coming that might require preparation, some of which will likely require making a bet on Pete for a few more years or a bet on Wilson.


    My standard answer to all "fire Pete brigade": Name that Pete replacement.

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