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Wilson is not Elite

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Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:43 pm
  • Wilson is a glorified game manager. As soon as the running game struggles or in today’s case Carson goes out the Offense becomes pedestrian at best. Elite qb’s can carry a team with no running game. Wilson looks lost out there when the running game goes stale. Missing receivers, taking sacks, throwing picks. I don’t care what his stats are. No way you can give this guy 25+ million.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:45 pm
  • RCATES wrote:Wilson is a glorified game manager. As soon as the running game struggles or in today’s case Carson goes out the Offense becomes pedestrian at best. Elite qb’s can carry a team with no running game. Wilson looks lost out there when the running game goes stale. Missing receivers, taking sacks, throwing picks. I don’t care what his stats are. No way you can give this guy 25+ million.



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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:48 pm
  • Or just maybe our head coach and OC don’t put him in position to make the plays necessary until there is no other choice.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:48 pm
  • LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:48 pm
  • He’s had three three very pedestrian games this year. I know he looked good at the end. But taking those unnecessary sacks drives me crazy. Today he was bottom half of the league. It would sure be nice to hit wide open receivers on third down. I’m sure he still has good stats, but the eye test says he was stinking it up out there.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:51 pm
  • evergreen wrote:He’s had three three very pedestrian games this year. I know he looked good at the end. But taking those unnecessary sacks drives me crazy. Today he was bottom half of the league. It would sure be nice to hit wide open receivers on third down. I’m sure he still has good stats, but the eye test says he was stinking it up out there.



    I guess Joey Hunt is no downgrade from DJ Fluker and Russ just took the sacks for the hell of it.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:54 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Reason: People who disagree are not "blind"
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:55 pm
  • The name calling and labeling will lead to time off.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:58 pm
  • To be honest there were a lot of passing plays where no one was open. The game plan for the passing game was awful. That being said Wilson was off and had a bad game. It happens. Doesn’t mean you throw him away. Tough for any QB when you are facing 3rd and long a billion times. It was total offensive failure including the QB.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:59 pm
  • Wilson isn't top tier. He's good not great, sometimes he can dominate games, others he disappears and is a non-factor, and even more yet he is completely MIA until the end of the game. He isn't a QB that will ever bite you with 5 INT games, and he isn't that much of a gambler. He's perfect for running an offense predicated on ball control.

    In essence Wilson lacks consistency, and over the last few seasons it seems like a coin flip as to which Wilson we're going to get. I would love to see what he could do with a strong offensive mind such as Andy Reid. I do not feel as if his potential has ever been fully tapped underneath Carroll, and I don't think it ever will be. There is still some potential left out on the table, and I am very curious to see what he is capable of.
    Last edited by Spin Doctor on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:00 pm
  • What a remarkable discovery, Wilson isn't elite for another week. :roll: :snack:
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:00 pm
  • RCATES wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.



    Different views? Dude, to repeat a very popular quote, you're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

    It looks terrible for people like you who ignore facts and reason just to stubbornly hold onto your opinion. By any objective measure Russell is NOT a game manager. He's proven it over his 7 year career. Your intentions aren't pure, your intentions are to be divisive and negative for the sake of doing so. Russell played like garbage today. I, as someone who tries to be fair minded can admit that. Fans like you have shown you have little interest in being fair minded, just petty. We can criticize Russ' play today without making absurd proclamations.

    If you feel so strongly about your views, show facts as to why he's a game manager. My first post in this thread I posted Facts that directly contradict that opinion. Your turn.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:04 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:Wilson isn't top tier. He's good not great, sometimes he can dominate games, others he disappears and is a non-factor, and even more yet he is completely MIA until the end of the game. He isn't a QB that will ever bite you with 5 INT games, and he isn't that much of a gambler. He's perfect for running an offense predicated on ball control.

    In essence Wilson lacks consistency, and over the last few seasons it seems like a coin flip as to which Wilson we're going to get. I would love to see what he could do with a strong offensive mind such as Andy Reid. I do not feel as if his potential has ever been fully tapped underneath Carroll, and I don't think it ever will be. There is still some potential left out on the table, and I am very curious to see what he is capable of.


    Even if I disagree, fair point. I can see why some would consider him to be just "good" although I would argue from a macro perspective he has good and bad moments like most QBs. But plays well enough year to year to be considered top 5.

    That said, this point isn't out of debate
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:09 pm
  • oldhawkfan wrote:Or just maybe our head coach and OC don’t put him in position to make the plays necessary until there is no other choice.



    I used to feel this way, but I think this is Russ's weakness. He likes the kaos, but the book is out on how to contain and attack him. He misses reads, and is overly safe. Even the out routes should be safe throws, but Russ doesn't put the ball in elite spots.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:49 pm
  • Today, Russell played like a Game Manager, NOT an elite QB.

    CREDIT: GUS BRADLEY, LA CHARGERS DC.

    Gus Bradley won this one. Wilson was not himself, probably because Gus Bradley knows Russell well enough that he knows how to confuse and perplex Russell.

    Yes, an ELITE QB has seen this shite enough different times, that he adjusts more quickly than what Russell did. It's not just on Russell though, it's on Schotty for not figuring out Bradley's schemes sooner. Remember, Schotty doesn't really know Wilson that well; Bradley probably still knows him better.

    It really comes down to a small handful of plays.

    1) The Pick 6 was like a replay of the Chicago game pick 6, under nearly identical circumstances.
    2) The off-target ball Russell threw on 3rd down where he flat missed the guy, I think it was Moore he was throwing to. Wide open, simply a bad throw.
    3) Russell taking multiple, stupid, unnecessary, drive-killing sacks from holding the ball too long. The one that stands out is the 13 yard sack in the 4th quarter where Russell did his patented bail-out-the-back-of-the-pocket routine.
    4) A bunch of other little plays here and there, especially 3rd down plays.

    I think this game was an important part of the Schottenheimer + Wilson development process. Now Schotty has seen how a very crafty DC who knows Russell well will scheme against him. Guaranteed Wilson and Schotty will review this game film a lot, learn from it, and have a totally different, and much better, set of adjustments next time.

    Also, let's give credit to Bradley and the Chargers D and secondary. They managed to make windows very tight for Russel all day, and to get a hand or finger on so many balls, including the potential game-tying TD throw to David Moore that looked like a drop.

    One of Wilson's best moments was checking to a running play on 4th down where Davis picked up 8 yards and a first down. Is that not progress? Wilson being given the flexibility to audible, by Carroll and Schotty, and making a nice call and getting a good result.

    Also, the loss of Fluker and Carson during the game was a huge factor. The two players who make the running game really go. Made things much harder for Russell.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:53 pm
  • Any wonder you are on my ignore list.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:16 pm
  • Bigpumpkin wrote:
    RCATES wrote:Wilson is a glorified game manager. As soon as the running game struggles or in today’s case Carson goes out the Offense becomes pedestrian at best. Elite qb’s can carry a team with no running game. Wilson looks lost out there when the running game goes stale. Missing receivers, taking sacks, throwing picks. I don’t care what his stats are. No way you can give this guy 25+ million.



    Sorry, it's not your call!


    You're Sorry it's not his call?, LOL, Really??
    The WHOLE OFFENSE played lousy today, I mean 'Lil Joey Hunt playing in D.J. Fluker's place? LOLOLOL.
    The Chargers are HEALTHIER, their Coaches had them way better prepared and they put out a lot more effort...Wilson BY HIMSELF isn't going to wax that teams ass, just wasn't going to happen.
    Hell, NO OTHER Quarterback in the entire world is going to put a team with injury issues "On His Back" and win, only morons actually would believe crap like that.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:17 pm
  • Wilson does not have to be Elite to be very, very good.

    What he does need, is to get in a rhythm.

    Running the ball and then expecting a cold QB under pressure to make throws on pivotal 3rd downs is going to be a recipe for disappointment.

    I don't know if he is going to be worth 30M/yr but the reason we lost this game is more on the coaches than Wilson.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:26 pm
  • I partly agree--Wilson isn't 1st tier, but there are very few who are. Brady, Rodgers, Brees come to mind.

    Wilson is probably 2nd tier. I'd put Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Matt Ryan in that category. Could the Hawks be more effective with someone like, Andrew Luck? Perhaps. But we'll never know, it's purely hypothetical.

    I'm not ready to throw Wilson out with the bathwater just yet. I also think he's more injured than we know--his runs on his run-pass option looks really slow...
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:27 pm
  • RCATES wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.

    No, You are entitled to your "different view" opinion, but good gawd man, just think about it for a minute, Ya think Rivers would have near the success he's enjoying IF his Running Game all the sudden went into the toilet? not only no, but HELL NO!
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:35 pm
  • RCATES wrote:Wilson is a glorified game manager. As soon as the running game struggles or in today’s case Carson goes out the Offense becomes pedestrian at best. Elite qb’s can carry a team with no running game. Wilson looks lost out there when the running game goes stale. Missing receivers, taking sacks, throwing picks. I don’t care what his stats are. No way you can give this guy 25+ million.



    I NEVER understand these guys who don't understand the game... :rumble:
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:54 pm
  • My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

    Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

    Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

    I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:02 pm
  • Hawkpower wrote:My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

    Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

    Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

    I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!



    two things.... the first is we don't want Wilson taking off running. its not worth the injury. second, teams are playing him differently because of his running ability they are containing him. just my take

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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:08 pm
  • doctorsubie wrote:I partly agree--Wilson isn't 1st tier, but there are very few who are. Brady, Rodgers, Brees come to mind.

    Wilson is probably 2nd tier. I'd put Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Matt Ryan in that category. Could the Hawks be more effective with someone like, Andrew Luck? Perhaps. But we'll never know, it's purely hypothetical.

    I'm not ready to throw Wilson out with the bathwater just yet. I also think he's more injured than we know--his runs on his run-pass option looks really slow...



    Andrew Luck? Highly doubt it. Luck isn't even close to Wilson but that's just my opinion.

    Brees has Sean Payton, and amazing personnel on offense. Watching Brees, Brady, and Rodgers over the years, the only QB that is without a doubt worlds ahead is Rodgers to me. But Rodgers is also imo the Greatest thrower of the football ever. We can have an entire debate about Brees and Brady's career in context when factoring in their coach, offense, etc.

    I still think Wilson is Tier 1. #4 or #5? Sure, but he can make all the throws and take over a game. He can read defenses just like those Tier 1 QBs. I think it's actually funny what expectations can do. We win 4 of our last 5, people are high on Wilson. We lose, and we're a terrible team with a just "good" QB. Then, if we go on another winning streak we'll be right back to praising Wilson, until......we lose another game. Such are the emotions of being a Hawks fan.

    Wilson has a long career ahead of him. At some point in the future, the Seahawks are going to be as loaded as the Saints, Chargers, or Rams...and people are going to have a different opinion of Wilson even though I can argue he's done it in years past with less. If the Seahawks make the playoffs this year, it will say a lot about Pete & Russ, given how many late rounders and cast offs we're turning into solid NFL players
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:08 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board
    That's true, if you look back to how wilson played years ago when he played how he wanted we were much more successful, I'm still not on board with this new OC and how hes trying to mold Russel. But I agree, I cant stand it how after a perfect passer rating game, hes suddenly this terrible quarterback who isn't capable with no run game, when last year he accounted for like 95% of our TDs.

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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:13 pm
  • Wilson just can't get rid of the ball like Brady and Rodgers can.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:20 pm
  • Russ has played better, and I expect him to play better in the future. I could tell early he wasn't on his game. He really looked passive and his throws showed it in the first three quarters. Three of the sacks were on him and so was one of the false starts. The pick six was freaking horrible. He really doesn't have any quicks. He completely fell apart in the pocket when the past few weeks he had really done well.

    I'm not overly concerned. Loss to an AFC team. Still in position with the rest of the NFC. But going 8-8 is a definite possibility and that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:21 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:Wilson just can't get rid of the ball like Brady and Rodgers can.




    And when he does, he is typically pretty good. When he hits his back foot and lets it rip, its usually a good result.

    We've made excuse after excuse for him over the years for why he doesn't do it like the elite QB's do. Some of it with merit. But with his line blocking pretty well for him now, those excuses are waning. He needs to elevate that part of his game.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:22 pm
  • Hawkpower wrote:My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

    Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

    Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

    I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!

    I agree. And the problem of course is that, while his athleticism is waning, he isn't growing any taller. He used to be able to compensate for his lack of height with his disappearing acts, but now we're seeing them less and less.

    Wilson's efficiency numbers this year are great... but here's my concern: we're dead last in the league in pass attempts.

    At the beginning of his career, Wilson was in sort of "Game Manager" mode, where our offense was run-heavy, supplemented by Wilson attempting about 400-450 passes a year. The last couple years, his pass attempts rose significantly (~25% higher), but his efficiency numbers dropped.

    His efficiency numbers this year are back to where they used to be... but they've also scaled back his usage; he's on pace for only 442 pass attempts, which would be his lowest total since 2013. I view the scaled back passing as an indictment on the coaching staff's trust in him being able to handle the load of the offense centered around him. I find it a little alarming that, despite how pass-friendly the league has become, we are throttling back on how much we throw.

    Now, predictably, some of you are going to scream, "the only reason we've scaled back his workload is because Pete is a dinosaur and failed to adapt or try something new!" I disagree. We spent 2016 and 2017 trying something new (increased reliance on Wilson) and it just didn't work. We weren't anything close to the juggernaut we used to be. His numbers last year on paper were good, but we were basically a .500 team.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:22 pm
  • MStewart12 wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board
    That's true, if you look back to how wilson played years ago when he played how he wanted we were much more successful, I'm still not on board with this new OC and how hes trying to mold Russel. But I agree, I cant stand it how after a perfect passer rating game, hes suddenly this terrible quarterback who isn't capable with no run game, when last year he accounted for like 95% of our TDs.

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    Yep.

    Not to mention, Wilson holds onto the ball just like Rodgers. Rodgers is clearly better than Wilson, but he's not exactly known for always getting the ball out quickly. Even watching this game on SNF currently he's holding onto the ball, just got sack and fumbled...ball went out of bounds

    Brees has thrown a minimum of 14 interceptions for 9 seasons of his career. Basically, for more than half of his career he's been turnover prone. Just last year he only threw for 23 Tds because he had Kamara and Ingram to take over. This year however Brees is having an amazing year.

    I'm all for calling out Wilson when he has a bad game. But since I've been on .NET, I can't remember one time Wilson had a bad game without multiple people suggesting he's not a great QB. You would think Brady, Rodgers, Brees never throw pick sixes, struggle, have down years, or have bad games. Every elite QB has had those struggles. It's just that a noticeable population of our fan base(not most) are quick to jump on Wilson the moment he struggles. Wilson has had enough good to great years to warrant some calling him Elite
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:22 pm
  • Wilson is having a solid season and unlike some, I think he's performing well given the new OC.

    He does need a running game to be at his best though and yes, that compliments his "game manager" skill set which makes him among the league's very best at 'managing' the offense.

    It was an off game. It happens.

    I look for Russ to bounce back.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:29 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    RCATES wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.

    No, You are entitled to your "different view" opinion, but good gawd man, just think about it for a minute, Ya think Rivers would have near the success he's enjoying IF his Running Game all the sudden went into the toilet? not only no, but HELL NO!


    You think that running game would be there without Rivers? Our defense could have stuffed the run game but they had to worry about Rivers passing all over them. Chargers D doesn't have to worry about that because Russ is currently not capable of playing at Philip Rivers level.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:47 pm
  • It's funny that some people get hung up on the term "game manager" as if that's a bad thing. If we were putting together a top five list of problems the Hawks had today then one of the items would be Russ not managing the game as well as he is capable of.

    Imagine Wilson avoiding one bad sack, looking off coverage instead of staring down a receiver into a pick six, having better accuracy on two of those throws that got away from him, perhaps finding one more open receiver over the course of the game. The kind of game management that we saw last week would have propelled us to a win today and would be worth every dollar, we just need to see it from Russ more consistently.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:55 pm
  • At some point Wilson he has to play well enough to win against good teams and he hasn't done it this year not once. These next few games are going to tell a lot about Wilson. So we'll see but right now i'm starting to seriously doubt Wilson is the QB that we need to get back to the playoffs . He is not a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs without a ton of help. The only defense for this game today is the Chargers are flat out a better team and will probably play in the AFC Championship.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:10 pm
  • strohmin wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    RCATES wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.

    No, You are entitled to your "different view" opinion, but good gawd man, just think about it for a minute, Ya think Rivers would have near the success he's enjoying IF his Running Game all the sudden went into the toilet? not only no, but HELL NO!


    You think that running game would be there without Rivers? Our defense could have stuffed the run game but they had to worry about Rivers passing all over them. Chargers D doesn't have to worry about that because Russ is currently not capable of playing at Philip Rivers level.


    LOL. Have you paid attention to Rivers' career, ever?

    Not capable of playing at Rivers level? Well in that case, 2015 shows that Cam Newton is an elite QB. Rivers is loaded with talent at receiver, and the Chargers are almost as talented as the Rams and Chiefs. The Chargers O-line out-physical'd us. Re-watch the game and that's what you'll see. It has far less to do with Rivers' arm, which hasn't done crap for the Chargers since 2004 for the most part in a WEAK AFC for most of his career
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:13 pm
  • JimmyG wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

    Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

    Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

    I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!

    I agree. And the problem of course is that, while his athleticism is waning, he isn't growing any taller. He used to be able to compensate for his lack of height with his disappearing acts, but now we're seeing them less and less.

    Wilson's efficiency numbers this year are great... but here's my concern: we're dead last in the league in pass attempts.

    At the beginning of his career, Wilson was in sort of "Game Manager" mode, where our offense was run-heavy, supplemented by Wilson attempting about 400-450 passes a year. The last couple years, his pass attempts rose significantly (~25% higher), but his efficiency numbers dropped.

    His efficiency numbers this year are back to where they used to be... but they've also scaled back his usage; he's on pace for only 442 pass attempts, which would be his lowest total since 2013. I view the scaled back passing as an indictment on the coaching staff's trust in him being able to handle the load of the offense centered around him. I find it a little alarming that, despite how pass-friendly the league has become, we are throttling back on how much we throw.

    Now, predictably, some of you are going to scream, "the only reason we've scaled back his workload is because Pete is a dinosaur and failed to adapt or try something new!" I disagree. We spent 2016 and 2017 trying something new (increased reliance on Wilson) and it just didn't work. We weren't anything close to the juggernaut we used to be. His numbers last year on paper were good, but we were basically a .500 team.


    This shows then how high of a standard we hold Wilson to, because it did work. Even without an average run game, having a kicker other than Blair Walsh would have had us AT LEAST at 11-5 in a super wide open NFC playoffs. 9-7 given that Russ had more on his shoulders than ANY other QB last year says a lot
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:58 pm
  • In a lot of ways, Russ is elite, but the mental part of the game is not where it would need to be, to be in that tier. Before the snap on the pick-6, I said out loud "oh no, Russ thinks this is man."
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:02 pm
  • Wilson never was in rhythm all day, the ball into the ground looked like a aimed throw to me, they never work, the incomplete at the end was a tipped ball and changed the trajectory some, not Moore's fault if he would have caught it, the pass would have be considered as a terrific catch.


    Wilson I think had times where he tries to embrace the moment as he has said and tries to do to much to extend plays, but that's the bad with the good, when it works we are all high fives, when it doesn't he isn't Elite!
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:38 am
  • Hawkpower wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:Wilson just can't get rid of the ball like Brady and Rodgers can.




    And when he does, he is typically pretty good. When he hits his back foot and lets it rip, its usually a good result.

    We've made excuse after excuse for him over the years for why he doesn't do it like the elite QB's do. Some of it with merit. But with his line blocking pretty well for him now, those excuses are waning. He needs to elevate that part of his game.

    Russ can do it, the issue is he lacks consistency. He is the modern day Donovan McNabb in this respect. McNabb, like Wilson could take over a game, and throw some of the most beautiful passes you've ever seen. That upside also came with some lows where McNabb looked like a backup tier QB. Luckily, unlike McNabb, Wilson has been graced with both a great defense, and a knack for being able to pull his head out of you know where when the time called for it. Also like Wilson, McNabb never really turned over the ball much. Just went through large stretches of football that he couldn't move the ball if his life depended on it.

    Wilson has the tools, he just lacks consistency. It seems he starts getting this way if he gets early pressure, or something goes bad in the early game. He starts playing hero ball rather than taking the easy play. He starts pressing and forgetting his fundamentals as a passer. It devolves into backyard football.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:15 am
  • Mad Dog wrote:To be honest there were a lot of passing plays where no one was open. The game plan for the passing game was awful. That being said Wilson was off and had a bad game. It happens. Doesn’t mean you throw him away. Tough for any QB when you are facing 3rd and long a billion times. It was total offensive failure including the QB.


    Well when you take a 15 yard loss on a sack because you tried to do too much that’s what you end up with. Yesterday’s sacks were all on Wilson. Again when the threat of the running game diminishes Wilson’s game drops off a cliff.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:41 am
  • Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    A lot of those yards were garbage yards from playing from behind- Blake Bortles had some pretty incredible statistical seasons due to this same reason.

    I honestly believe there is no one better to handle a game at QB when there is a running game present- which means if he is a game manager, he's the best one... but I just tend to see him as a very good QB. I don't see him with Brees, Brady, Rodgers anymore, but I still see him as a top 10 QB, and those players are very tough to find.

    Russ had a brutal game, that's for sure, but the team is very close to being an excellent club. My question is, why did the run stop working all of a sudden?
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:43 am
  • https://mobile.twitter.com/Curtis_Crabtree
    The Seahawks have lost their last five games dating back to last season when Russell Wilson has thrown 30 or more passes in a game.

    Sorry folks this has game manager written all over it. It’s not about being a hater. It’s not about causing drama with other fans. It’s whats staring you right in the face watching the game. It’s even worse Live. Seattle’s 2-5 at Home their last 7. Unheard of a couple years back. No Lynch has exposed Wilson. This wasn’t simply about Guss knowing how to play Wilson. It’s becoming a common trend against good teams. The cats been out of the bag on how to contain Wilson for some time now. Bruce Arians was the master Architect.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:55 am
  • You're wrong, yet again. But go ahead and pump your internet chest out. The entire team sucked yesterday, not just Russ, and yes he wasn't good. Bashing on Russ makes you feel better, so have at it.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:01 am
  • Russ had a bad game yesterday and looked like an average QB. Sorry, but i'll take that. Yes, he holds the ball to long and lost the ability to escape some improbable plays, also threw a pick 6 like ever QB in the NFL does from time to time, but at the end of the season, he's still a top 5 guy at his best and a top 10 guy at his worst. He isnt the problem.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:01 am
  • Put a HOF defense around Wilson again, he will look all world.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:06 am
  • Him missing Brown and Lockett on 3rd downs, when both were wide open was really a shock to see. He just looked off all day long. It happens to any QB, but that was twilight zone level. He's my favorite player, but he was bad yesterday, no sugar coating needed. He was only part of a team wide crap show. And, we lost to a better team, period.
    Reality sucks sometimes.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:14 am
  • Few QBs could have done better with as little rhythm and opportunities as Wilson was given.

    Wilson had a bad day. But he was not being helped by a game plan that refused to acknowledge that Carson was out. Running Davis out there repeatedly and then asking Wilson to bail you out was terrible.

    Davis is a backup back. He is mediocre as a starter. Using him like a starter will give you mediocre results.

    Disappointing that Penny cannot seize this opportunity. Probably a bad sign.

    Our game plan for Wilson works against him, he doesn't get chances to make positive throws, get in rhythm and not get put in giant holes. He gets to throw when we have a long 3rd to convert, often because we just had a stupid penalty, Yesterday was not a gameplan that creates a good measuring stick to evaluate Wilson at all.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:26 am
  • The Seahawks are built to play a certain way. They are not built to throw it 40 times a game. Wilson had a bad game for sure, but damn so did Pete & Schotty. They had no plan B. They thought they could just run the ball the whole game, and not have to worry about getting in a shootout with Rivers.

    In terms of whether Wilson is elite or not. His numbers averaged over three years are right there with the best in the business. That is with Cable & Bevell handicapping him. So I have no doubt if you paired him with one of the best offensive minds in the game he could do even better.

    Wilson gets the short end of the stick volume stat wise by being paired with a defensive coach. Which makes his numbers even more impressive.

    His athleticism decline is baffling. Aaron Rodgers is 5 years older, and I would say at this juncture is more mobile than Wilson. It makes no sense.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:29 am
  • Elite ?? When was that?? I don't hate Wilson; but I don't hold up his poster with one hand either...he is an above average QB...and that's being honest...but elite?? Nope...
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:30 am
  • I said it after two weeks into the season, and I still remain by my opinion that Russ has an injury of some kind of injury to his lower extremities.

    Hammy, groin, whatever it is, he just does not seem as explosive as before.
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