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Wilson is not Elite

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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:32 am
  • Elite? Did I miss something? I don't hate Wilson because he plays for the Hawks ; but I also don't hold up his poster with one hand...Wilson is somewhat better than an average QB...but elite?...Nope
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:33 am
  • That's your version. It's the wrong version, but hey, do you.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:34 am
  • xray wrote:Elite? Did I miss something? I don't hate Wilson because he plays for the Hawks ; but I also don't hold up his poster with one hand...Wilson is somewhat better than an average QB...but elite?...Nope


    Better than average? Id say you missed the first 6 years of his career.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:42 am
  • That pick six was horrid. The defense shut out the Chargers in the second half and Wilson could not string together any consistent play he looked scared in the pocket he hates it in there. We'll see how he does down the stretch but playoffs not a chance that's gone. I'm really tired of watching Wilson play mediocre football against good teams.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:43 am
  • 4-4 with 8 to play, 4 home games in Dec. But yeah, there's "no chance" at playoffs. Ok.......
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:59 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:At some point Wilson he has to play well enough to win against good teams and he hasn't done it this year not once. These next few games are going to tell a lot about Wilson. So we'll see but right now i'm starting to seriously doubt Wilson is the QB that we need to get back to the playoffs . He is not a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs without a ton of help. The only defense for this game today is the Chargers are flat out a better team and will probably play in the AFC Championship.


    BS.

    Stat line against the Rams. 13/21 198 yards 3TD 132.5 RTG and no picks compared to 2 for Goff.

    That is playing well enough to win. The defense gave up 33 points so we lost by 2.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:05 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:At some point Wilson he has to play well enough to win against good teams and he hasn't done it this year not once. These next few games are going to tell a lot about Wilson. So we'll see but right now i'm starting to seriously doubt Wilson is the QB that we need to get back to the playoffs . He is not a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs without a ton of help. The only defense for this game today is the Chargers are flat out a better team and will probably play in the AFC Championship.


    BS.

    Stat line against the Rams. 13/21 198 yards 3TD 132.5 RTG and no picks compared to 2 for Goff.

    That is playing well enough to win. The defense gave up 33 points so we lost by 2.




    It's one game and it wasn't good enough to win.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:07 am
  • doctorsubie wrote:I partly agree--Wilson isn't 1st tier, but there are very few who are. Brady, Rodgers, Brees come to mind.

    Wilson is probably 2nd tier. I'd put Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Matt Ryan in that category. Could the Hawks be more effective with someone like, Andrew Luck? Perhaps. But we'll never know, it's purely hypothetical.

    I'm not ready to throw Wilson out with the bathwater just yet. I also think he's more injured than we know--his runs on his run-pass option looks really slow...


    Cam is not the qb russ is. Not % wise nor td to int ratio. He is the better runner is all.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:08 am
  • What Seymour said is very accurate. Just because they lose a game, it doesn't automatically mean it's because the QB didn't play good enough. As if the D has nothing to do with losing.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:13 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:At some point Wilson he has to play well enough to win against good teams and he hasn't done it this year not once. These next few games are going to tell a lot about Wilson. So we'll see but right now i'm starting to seriously doubt Wilson is the QB that we need to get back to the playoffs . He is not a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs without a ton of help. The only defense for this game today is the Chargers are flat out a better team and will probably play in the AFC Championship.


    BS.

    Stat line against the Rams. 13/21 198 yards 3TD 132.5 RTG and no picks compared to 2 for Goff.

    That is playing well enough to win. The defense gave up 33 points so we lost by 2.




    It's one game and it wasn't good enough to win.


    You said "Not Once" against a good team didn't you?

    Clearly it's good enough. He had 3 TD's and a 132 rating. You expect more for a QB than that then throw more than 21 flippin' attempts!

    Wilson is just as often a victim of his offense (Pete Carroll). Many ignore that, and expect late game crank it up heroics. :177692:
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:15 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:4-4 with 8 to play, 4 home games in Dec. But yeah, there's "no chance" at playoffs. Ok.......


    Right? God it's fun listening to fans overreact after a loss.

    Not.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:17 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:At some point Wilson he has to play well enough to win against good teams and he hasn't done it this year not once. These next few games are going to tell a lot about Wilson. So we'll see but right now i'm starting to seriously doubt Wilson is the QB that we need to get back to the playoffs . He is not a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs without a ton of help. The only defense for this game today is the Chargers are flat out a better team and will probably play in the AFC Championship.


    BS.

    Stat line against the Rams. 13/21 198 yards 3TD 132.5 RTG and no picks compared to 2 for Goff.

    That is playing well enough to win. The defense gave up 33 points so we lost by 2.




    It's one game and it wasn't good enough to win.


    You said "Not Once" against a good team didn't you?

    Clearly it's good enough. He had 3 TD's and a 132 rating. You expect more for a QB than that then throw more than 21 flippin' attempts!

    Wilson is just as often a victim of his offense (Pete Carroll). Many ignore that, and expect late game crank it up heroics. :177692:



    I'm not going to argue with you were not making the playoffs for the second consecutive season and Wilson is a large part of the reason.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:20 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    BS.

    Stat line against the Rams. 13/21 198 yards 3TD 132.5 RTG and no picks compared to 2 for Goff.

    That is playing well enough to win. The defense gave up 33 points so we lost by 2.



    It's one game and it wasn't good enough to win.


    You said "Not Once" against a good team didn't you?

    Clearly it's good enough. He had 3 TD's and a 132 rating. You expect more for a QB than that then throw more than 21 flippin' attempts!

    Wilson is just as often a victim of his offense (Pete Carroll). Many ignore that, and expect late game crank it up heroics. :177692:



    I'm not going to argue with you were not making the playoffs for the second consecutive season and Wilson is a large part of the reason.


    Sure he is. And since you're on a one man blame crusade, losing 6 pro bowl players and top picks like Penny and McDowell has nothing to do with it. :roll: :pukeface: :177692:
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:30 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:

    It's one game and it wasn't good enough to win.


    You said "Not Once" against a good team didn't you?

    Clearly it's good enough. He had 3 TD's and a 132 rating. You expect more for a QB than that then throw more than 21 flippin' attempts!

    Wilson is just as often a victim of his offense (Pete Carroll). Many ignore that, and expect late game crank it up heroics. :177692:



    I'm not going to argue with you were not making the playoffs for the second consecutive season and Wilson is a large part of the reason.


    Sure he is. And since you're on a one man blame crusade, losing 6 pro bowl players and top picks like Penny and McDowell has nothing to do with it. :roll: :pukeface: :177692:


    Maybe the Chargers were just a bad matchup and Wilson will be great the rest of the year I guess we'll find out. I agree the drafting needs to be better in round one, there's know doubt it's caused a lack of talent. Keenan Allen looked like a man among boys out there. Seattle had nothing like that on Offense.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:35 am
  • Put Tony Romo on those 2012-2015 Seahawks, he would have won a SB and also a legendary pick at the end.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:40 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    You said "Not Once" against a good team didn't you?

    Clearly it's good enough. He had 3 TD's and a 132 rating. You expect more for a QB than that then throw more than 21 flippin' attempts!

    Wilson is just as often a victim of his offense (Pete Carroll). Many ignore that, and expect late game crank it up heroics. :177692:



    I'm not going to argue with you were not making the playoffs for the second consecutive season and Wilson is a large part of the reason.


    Sure he is. And since you're on a one man blame crusade, losing 6 pro bowl players and top picks like Penny and McDowell has nothing to do with it. :roll: :pukeface: :177692:


    Maybe the Chargers were just a bad matchup and Wilson will be great the rest of the year I guess we'll find out.
    I agree the drafting needs to be better in round one, there's know doubt it's caused a lack of talent. Keenan Allen looked like a man among boys out there. Seattle had nothing like that on Offense.


    I don't have to wait. Wilson WILL have another off day this year just like every other top QB will too. And we'll hear all the same shit we've been hearing for 7 years now. The only difference is some fans will be barking the shit that opposing teams used to.

    Wilson no doubt had an off day, but why does losing Carson mean we have to lose hope against good teams? You can see the drop off with Davis, and there is a further drop off to our 1st round RB....WHY?? We cannot draft a GREAT RB without falling into an injury situation with a late round flier like Carson, yet our offense absolutely is reliant on a top 10 RB.
    That is the main problem with our Pete ball offense.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:49 am
  • lukerguy wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

    He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board


    A lot of those yards were garbage yards from playing from behind- Blake Bortles had some pretty incredible statistical seasons due to this same reason.

    I honestly believe there is no one better to handle a game at QB when there is a running game present- which means if he is a game manager, he's the best one... but I just tend to see him as a very good QB. I don't see him with Brees, Brady, Rodgers anymore, but I still see him as a top 10 QB, and those players are very tough to find.

    Russ had a brutal game, that's for sure, but the team is very close to being an excellent club. My question is, why did the run stop working all of a sudden?



    Garbage yards with a 9-7 record that could have easily been 11-5? No running game? Injuries all over the defense?

    I understand perception is reality, but everyone is simply ignoring hard facts. Again, Brees was a turnover machine before Ingram and Kamara. He has an elite O-coordinator. The Saints outside of their SB year struggled to make the playoffs

    There is no objective measure to suggest he’s a “game manager”. That is simple stubbornness. As Hawks fans we should be able to admit when we’re wrong, and your argument that Wilson is a game manager isn’t a particularly strong one. This team DOES NOT win 99% of the time when Russ has a bad game, irrespective of the run game. We’ve seen him make tight window throws, game winning drives, and throw+rush for ridiculous yards in the past. And to people like you it’s like that doesn’t exist. Would you like to have an objective stat and film comparison since you’re insistent he’s a game manager?? And if he’s not Top 5 who’s categorically better?
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:53 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:

    I'm not going to argue with you were not making the playoffs for the second consecutive season and Wilson is a large part of the reason.


    Sure he is. And since you're on a one man blame crusade, losing 6 pro bowl players and top picks like Penny and McDowell has nothing to do with it. :roll: :pukeface: :177692:


    Maybe the Chargers were just a bad matchup and Wilson will be great the rest of the year I guess we'll find out.
    I agree the drafting needs to be better in round one, there's know doubt it's caused a lack of talent. Keenan Allen looked like a man among boys out there. Seattle had nothing like that on Offense.


    I don't have to wait. Wilson WILL have another off day this year just like every other top QB will too. And we'll hear all the same shit we've been hearing for 7 years now. The only difference is some fans will be barking the shit that opposing teams used to.

    Wilson no doubt had an off day, but why does losing Carson mean we have to lose hope against good teams? You can see the drop off with Davis, and there is a further drop off to our 1st round RB....WHY?? We cannot draft a GREAT RB without falling into an injury situation with a late round flier like Carson, yet our offense absolutely is reliant on a top 10 RB.
    That is the main problem with our Pete ball offense.


    Carson is the catalyst to this offense, like it or not he's the best thing they have and were reliant on great RB because of Wilson's inconsistent play . That's pretty clear if you ask me.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:56 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:That pick six was horrid. The defense shut out the Chargers in the second half and Wilson could not string together any consistent play he looked scared in the pocket he hates it in there. We'll see how he does down the stretch but playoffs not a chance that's gone. I'm really tired of watching Wilson play mediocre football against good teams.


    That’s wonderful.

    See, people like myself can say Wilson played like shit yesterday. He had a bad game, it happens. Others have said the same thing

    But guess what?? If we make the playoffs, if Wilson throws 34 or more TDs again, and if he wills us to victory(again) where will you be? Will you be here to admit you were wrong? Nope, because the few of you Wilson haters have never admitted you’re wrong over the years.

    Nope, what you and others on here are going to do is ignore it, overly praise another player or the defense, and only come out of the woodworks when Wilson has a merely good or average game. Wilson has to play perfect to get even a wee bit of credit from some of you, and that’s unfortunate. I look forward to the silence on this board when he start winning again and the fake outrage when we lose
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:04 am
  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:That pick six was horrid. The defense shut out the Chargers in the second half and Wilson could not string together any consistent play he looked scared in the pocket he hates it in there. We'll see how he does down the stretch but playoffs not a chance that's gone. I'm really tired of watching Wilson play mediocre football against good teams.


    That’s wonderful.

    See, people like myself can say Wilson played like shit yesterday. He had a bad game, it happens. Others have said the same thing

    But guess what?? If we make the playoffs, if Wilson throws 34 or more TDs again, and if he wills us to victory(again) where will you be? Will you be here to admit you were wrong? Nope, because the few of you Wilson haters have never admitted you’re wrong over the years.

    Nope, what you and others on here are going to do is ignore it, overly praise another player or the defense, and only come out of the woodworks when Wilson has a merely good or average game. Wilson has to play perfect to get even a wee bit of credit from some of you, and that’s unfortunate. I look forward to the silence on this board when he start winning again and the fake outrage when we lose


    Carson is the catalyst to this offense, like it or not he's the best thing they have and were reliant on great RB because of Wilson's inconsistent play . That's pretty clear if you ask me. Wilson used to create and run and was dynamic that player is gone what the hell happened to that guy I don't know but he's not the same player he was his first 4 years.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:12 am
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sure he is. And since you're on a one man blame crusade, losing 6 pro bowl players and top picks like Penny and McDowell has nothing to do with it. :roll: :pukeface: :177692:


    Maybe the Chargers were just a bad matchup and Wilson will be great the rest of the year I guess we'll find out.
    I agree the drafting needs to be better in round one, there's know doubt it's caused a lack of talent. Keenan Allen looked like a man among boys out there. Seattle had nothing like that on Offense.


    I don't have to wait. Wilson WILL have another off day this year just like every other top QB will too. And we'll hear all the same shit we've been hearing for 7 years now. The only difference is some fans will be barking the shit that opposing teams used to.

    Wilson no doubt had an off day, but why does losing Carson mean we have to lose hope against good teams? You can see the drop off with Davis, and there is a further drop off to our 1st round RB....WHY?? We cannot draft a GREAT RB without falling into an injury situation with a late round flier like Carson, yet our offense absolutely is reliant on a top 10 RB.
    That is the main problem with our Pete ball offense.


    Carson is the catalyst to this offense, like it or not he's the best thing they have and were reliant on great RB because of Wilson's inconsistent play . That's pretty clear if you ask me.


    As stated before, Wilson really-really needs a strong running game to more effectively manage the offense. Without it he has wild swings of productivity vs poor play. He's not Brady or Rodgers and he never will be. He is at his best when there is a legit run threat on almost every play that defenses have to account for. Without that his particular skill set is greatly diminished.

    Is he slower? Yes. I stated that fact last season and said it will continue to be an issue for him going forward.

    It is.

    But when given a strong run game and a better than decent defense, Russel Wilson can manage the offense at a high level of safe and productive consistency. That's his skill set. It always has been with some fun to watch sandlot ball thrown in. He's getting too slow to sandlot so now the need for a run game is even more pressing.

    He had a bad game. It happens. We'll all just have to wait and see if it keeps happening or he bounces back.

    And the answer to that largely lies with the health of Carson.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:05 am
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    doctorsubie wrote:I partly agree--Wilson isn't 1st tier, but there are very few who are. Brady, Rodgers, Brees come to mind.

    Wilson is probably 2nd tier. I'd put Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Matt Ryan in that category. Could the Hawks be more effective with someone like, Andrew Luck? Perhaps. But we'll never know, it's purely hypothetical.

    I'm not ready to throw Wilson out with the bathwater just yet. I also think he's more injured than we know--his runs on his run-pass option looks really slow...


    Cam is not the qb russ is. Not % wise nor td to int ratio. He is the better runner is all.


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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:29 am
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Maybe the Chargers were just a bad matchup and Wilson will be great the rest of the year I guess we'll find out.
    I agree the drafting needs to be better in round one, there's know doubt it's caused a lack of talent. Keenan Allen looked like a man among boys out there. Seattle had nothing like that on Offense.


    I don't have to wait. Wilson WILL have another off day this year just like every other top QB will too. And we'll hear all the same shit we've been hearing for 7 years now. The only difference is some fans will be barking the shit that opposing teams used to.

    Wilson no doubt had an off day, but why does losing Carson mean we have to lose hope against good teams? You can see the drop off with Davis, and there is a further drop off to our 1st round RB....WHY?? We cannot draft a GREAT RB without falling into an injury situation with a late round flier like Carson, yet our offense absolutely is reliant on a top 10 RB.
    That is the main problem with our Pete ball offense.


    Carson is the catalyst to this offense, like it or not he's the best thing they have and were reliant on great RB because of Wilson's inconsistent play . That's pretty clear if you ask me.


    [quote=As stated before, Wilson really-really needs a strong running game to more effectively manage the offense. Without it he has wild swings of productivity vs poor play. He's not Brady or Rodgers and he never will be.quote]

    Did you watch the GB v NE game last night. If so, is Rogers a game manager, not elite. Brady's team won but he wasn't all that great either.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:35 am
  • xray wrote:Elite? Did I miss something? I don't hate Wilson because he plays for the Hawks ; but I also don't hold up his poster with one hand...Wilson is somewhat better than an average QB...but elite?...Nope


    By putting him in the average category you are putting him square in the Flacco, Winston, Dalton, Cousins zone. Is that your assessment of Wilson? That he should be ranked with those guys?

    I'd say he's a bit higher than average. I agree he's not eilite but he is a franchise QB and works as hard as anyone to get better. He has limitations and I think coaching has been one of the biggest limitations. He thrives despite bad coaching much like Rodgers and Rivers. Whereas Brees, Goff, Mahomes, Brady thrive with great coaching as well.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:20 am
  • Even elite Hall of Fame quarterbacks have very bad games. Many of them. That's not an accurate representation of what makes a quarterback elite.

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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:25 am
  • Wilson rode the coattails of a HOF defense. Once the defense, got shipped out, he is getting exposed as a bus driver. Put Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck on the 2012-2015 Seahawks, they all would have had 1 or more championships.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:34 am
  • Here's a new idea: just pin a "Wilson Sucks" thread, on the bottom of page 10 or something, and everything the usual suspects come of the woodwork with their trash posts everytime Wilson throws an incompletion, their posts just get relegated to that thread. We've probably almost reached the point where a machine learning algorithm can do that without mod oversight
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:41 am
  • He rode the coattails? Really? You couldn't be more wrong. They don't make EITHER super bowl without Russ AND that D and Running game. ALL those things needed to be on point to make it. But if you think they make the Super Bowl without Russ, you are just another in a line of many clueless Russ bashers.
    Because, we never get that here or in Seattle. And Tony Romo? :roll:
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:22 pm
  • RCATES wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Curtis_Crabtree
    The Seahawks have lost their last five games dating back to last season when Russell Wilson has thrown 30 or more passes in a game.

    Sorry folks this has game manager written all over it. It’s not about being a hater. It’s not about causing drama with other fans. It’s whats staring you right in the face watching the game. It’s even worse Live. Seattle’s 2-5 at Home their last 7. Unheard of a couple years back. No Lynch has exposed Wilson. This wasn’t simply about Guss knowing how to play Wilson. It’s becoming a common trend against good teams. The cats been out of the bag on how to contain Wilson for some time now. Bruce Arians was the master Architect.



    Also this is factually disingenuous.

    We won the majority of our games with Russ passing a majority of the time last year. 7 of those wins came with Russ passing at least 30 times, and at least 2 losses came with Russ having at least 27 attempts but got Blair Walsh'd.

    Regardless of your opinion can we at least agree on fair minded facts. Russ proved last year we could win on his arm. A simple search on NFL game log would have shown you that had you taken the time
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:35 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:He rode the coattails? Really? You couldn't be more wrong. They don't make EITHER super bowl without Russ AND that D and Running game. ALL those things needed to be on point to make it. But if you think they make the Super Bowl without Russ, you are just another in a line of many clueless Russ bashers.
    Because, we never get that here or in Seattle. And Tony Romo? :roll:



    Posts like that are so factual incorrect you start to wonder about the person who posted them.

    Look at his stats in the years the Hawks didnt make it to a Super Bowl. That's what the "riding the coattails" people cant fathom... or even how many Super Bowls Rodgers has been to without a running game or defense.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:37 pm
  • 7 years in, and people still refuse to give the guy credit for leading the team to two super bowls and a ridiculous amount of regular season and playoff wins. At this point, I need to start laughing at it. Mainly because I have given up trying to make any sense of why so many people are flat out against giving that guy credit for ANYTHING. Why do people get so personal with this guy? He's been nothing but class and total leader on this team. And a winner.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:42 pm
  • kuyyo_morro wrote:Wilson rode the coattails of a HOF defense. Once the defense, got shipped out, he is getting exposed as a bus driver. Put Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck on the 2012-2015 Seahawks, they all would have had 1 or more championships.



    A bit harsh on Wilson IMO. He's a class act who, historically, has played his guts out.

    That said, yes, he has serious deficiencies that don't appear to have been fully lessened by experience. If anything, the experience in the league has left him a bit slower and thus more fully exposing his deficiencies.

    With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

    The stats of the previous few seasons are illegitimate. The only stat that matters are playoff wins and a ticket to the big show.

    The big question that many of you have already posed is do we pay Wilson the next big contract.

    Well, the last time we did that did the team get better overall or worse in the seasons that followed?

    There's where the answer can be found...
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:51 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    kuyyo_morro wrote:Wilson rode the coattails of a HOF defense. Once the defense, got shipped out, he is getting exposed as a bus driver. Put Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck on the 2012-2015 Seahawks, they all would have had 1 or more championships.



    A bit harsh on Wilson IMO. He's a class act who, historically, has played his guts out.

    That said, yes, he has serious deficiencies that don't appear to have been fully lessened by experience. If anything, the experience in the league has left him a bit slower and thus more fully exposing his deficiencies.

    With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

    The stats of the previous few seasons are illegitimate. The only stat that matters are playoff wins and a ticket to the big show.

    The big question that many of you have already posed is do we pay Wilson the next big contract.

    Well, the last time we did that did the team get better overall or worse in the seasons that followed?

    There's where the answer can be found...



    He has shown he can shoulder the burden the last 3 years. The stats reflect that.

    The rest of the team could not.

    That said, whether or not his next contract is here is probably based on whether he thinks the Seahawks are good enough for him.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:58 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    xray wrote:Elite? Did I miss something? I don't hate Wilson because he plays for the Hawks ; but I also don't hold up his poster with one hand...Wilson is somewhat better than an average QB...but elite?...Nope


    By putting him in the average category you are putting him square in the Flacco, Winston, Dalton, Cousins zone. Is that your assessment of Wilson? That he should be ranked with those guys?

    I'd say he's a bit higher than average. I agree he's not eilite but he is a franchise QB and works as hard as anyone to get better. He has limitations and I think coaching has been one of the biggest limitations. He thrives despite bad coaching much like Rodgers and Rivers. Whereas Brees, Goff, Mahomes, Brady thrive with great coaching as well.


    Right on - well said.

    "A bit higher than average" is accurate.

    With the right crew around him he can be very good as can other better than average QBs.

    And the poor coaching you mention doesn't receive nearly enough attention and is one I think is a big reason for Wilson seeming stagnation in recent seasons. (Not so much stat wise but overall legit playoff threat offense wise)
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:58 pm
  • Wilson is a fantastic qb.... He had a off game.... Every qb does...... How many times has Rogers or brees done Any thing without a great defense or running game? How about newton, or Brady...... Look at his stats, playoff wins etc, 4th qtr comebacks ..... Every metric says he's top 5..... Why don't you guys grade the other "elites" with as harsh a brush as our own guy?
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:00 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:
    With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

    ..


    I don't know any QB that can. If they did they'd be worth 100 million a season. Every single QB from Radgers to Brady to Brees and beyond needs quality teammates to succeed and good coaching. Every single one. Montana and Brady don't enter the GOAT competition without Walsh and Belicek. Elway doesn't get his rings without Terrell Davis. Brees is having a MVP season because Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas are absolute Studs and Payton is one smart play caller. Wenta/Foles led the Eagles to a SB because they had perhaps the best OL and DL in the league.

    Everyone needs help from somewhere. It's a team game and no QB is an island, sufficient in itself.

    So yes, even Russ has weaknesses, He's undersized and over-optimistic. But there are weaknesses around him that don't help. The passing game has little creativity. He doesn't have a big stud receiving threat. The running backs are tough runners but far from dynamic.

    But in the end, he works as hard as anyone to fix things and make them better and when the chips are down he's clutch. He converted 3 4th downs and almost got them in the end zone twice in the last 5 minutes. With most QB's its game over down 15 points with 5 min to go.

    Wilson may or may not be elite but he's at least darn good and a franchise QB. We are lucky to have a decent QB that keeps us in games no matter how things are going. Not every team does.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:03 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

    ..


    I don't know any QB that can. If they did they'd be worth 100 million a season. Every single QB from Radgers to Brady to Brees and beyond needs quality teammates to succeed and good coaching. Every single one. Montana and Brady don't enter the GOAT competition without Walsh and Belicek. Elway doesn't get his rings without Terrell Davis. Brees is having a MVP season because Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas are absolute Studs and Payton is one smart play caller. Wenta/Foles led the Eagles to a SB because they had perhaps the best OL and DL in the league.

    Everyone needs help from somewhere. It's a team game and no QB is an island, sufficient in itself.

    So yes, even Russ has weaknesses, He's undersized and over-optimistic. But there are weaknesses around him that don't help. The passing game has little creativity. He doesn't have a big stud receiving threat. The running backs are tough runners but far from dynamic.

    But in the end, he works as hard as anyone to fix things and make them better and when the chips are down he's clutch. He converted 3 4th downs and almost got them in the end zone twice in the last 5 minutes. With most QB's its game over down 15 points with 5 min to go.

    Wilson may or may not be elite but he's at least darn good and a franchise QB. We are lucky to have a decent QB that keeps us in games no matter how things are going. Not every team does.


    I can pretty much agree with all of the above.

    I like Wilson - a lot. Yeah, I give him a hard time now and again, but you're right, he works as hard as anyone to overcome his deficiencies. And he's a class act.

    As to whether we should pay him the King's Ransom on the next contract, that's a tough one. I do worry his physical limitations might be accelerated over the next few seasons due to the pounding he took the previous few seasons.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:04 pm
  • Ambrose83 wrote:Wilson is a fantastic qb.... He had a off game.... Every qb does...... How many times has Rogers or brees done Any thing without a great defense or running game? How about newton, or Brady...... Look at his stats, playoff wins etc, 4th qtr comebacks ..... Every metric says he's top 5..... Why don't you guys grade the other "elites" with as harsh a brush as our own guy?


    Doesnt fit the very thin narrative

    Team wins.. its all because of other players

    Team loses.. (despite MVP numbers from the QB)... QB can't shoulder the burden.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:07 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:
    With the right crew around him both on offense and defense he can (help) take a team to the playoffs but he can't shoulder the burden. He's not that guy and never will be.

    ..


    I don't know any QB that can. If they did they'd be worth 100 million a season. Every single QB from Radgers to Brady to Brees and beyond needs quality teammates to succeed and good coaching. Every single one. Montana and Brady don't enter the GOAT competition without Walsh and Belicek. Elway doesn't get his rings without Terrell Davis. Brees is having a MVP season because Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas are absolute Studs and Payton is one smart play caller. Wenta/Foles led the Eagles to a SB because they had perhaps the best OL and DL in the league.

    Everyone needs help from somewhere. It's a team game and no QB is an island, sufficient in itself.

    So yes, even Russ has weaknesses, He's undersized and over-optimistic. But there are weaknesses around him that don't help. The passing game has little creativity. He doesn't have a big stud receiving threat. The running backs are tough runners but far from dynamic.

    But in the end, he works as hard as anyone to fix things and make them better and when the chips are down he's clutch. He converted 3 4th downs and almost got them in the end zone twice in the last 5 minutes. With most QB's its game over down 15 points with 5 min to go.

    Wilson may or may not be elite but he's at least darn good and a franchise QB. We are lucky to have a decent QB that keeps us in games no matter how things are going. Not every team does.


    Given your wise words I'd love to hear if you think we should pay him the big $$$$ on the next contract?
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:09 pm
  • Should Rodgers have been paid that contract?

    His stats are similar to Wilson. He's clearly slowed down since multiple injuries, and Wilson has more wins.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:12 pm
  • That's the two really big questions for the organization right now.

    1) Ownership.

    2) Invests big bucks in keeping Wilson or reinvest that $$ into the rest of the team similar to what we did when Pete first arrived all those years ago.

    Either one has pluses and minuses and I'm not sure how best the organization will move on from here.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:14 pm
  • semiahmoo wrote:That's the two really big questions for the organization right now.

    1) Ownership.

    2) Invests big bucks in keeping Wilson or reinvest that $$ into the rest of the team similar to what we did when Pete first arrived all those years ago.

    Either one has pluses and minuses and I'm not sure how best the organization will move on from here.




    I think if you invest in Wilson the organization needs to upgrade the offensive philosophy to include better and more dynamic receivers to go with the running game.

    That might mean a new OC.

    It's a huge risk.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:15 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    semiahmoo wrote:That's the two really big questions for the organization right now.

    1) Ownership.

    2) Invests big bucks in keeping Wilson or reinvest that $$ into the rest of the team similar to what we did when Pete first arrived all those years ago.

    Either one has pluses and minuses and I'm not sure how best the organization will move on from here.




    I think if you invest in Wilson the organization needs to upgrade the offensive philosophy to include better and more dynamic receivers to go with the running game.

    That might mean a new OC.

    It's a huge risk.



    Totally agree on the huge risk.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:27 pm
  • When has a franchise qb in his prime ever left the team he's on? Never is the answer..... Wilson will be a hawk for life. Any thing less is pure stupidity .
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:57 pm
  • You all bitching about Wilson and splitting hairs when you could have this guy to talk about.

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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:04 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:You all bitching about Wilson and splitting hairs when you could have this guy to talk about.

    Poor Buffalo.


    Damn......why is Mr Peterman checking his play sheet on the way down?? :lol: :lol:

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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:03 pm
  • The fact that there is a reasonable argument on both sides of the "is Wilson elite?" debate should tell us everything we need to know about the question. Wilson is in that conversation. This is the first real time in his career where he's going to have to be the difference maker on a consistent basis if this team is going to be a contender. In many ways, we're seeing parallels to Wilson in how the Packers are playing with Aaron Rodgers. Both guys are on teams in the midst of retooling and both are struggling to overcome the deficiencies of their teams.

    I personally believe the distinction between 'elite' and 'game manager' is misleading. Every QB is better with talent around them so unless they have equivalent levels of talent around them, it's pretty much useless to compare QBs. In other words, being 'elite' should be defined in terms of value abstract from all other variables and when you do that it's hard to imagine a scenario where you can't build a championship level team around Russell Wilson.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:53 pm
  • Wilson is a great player, and represents everything great about this franchise.

    However, I'd love to see Wilson's win/loss ratio in games where we ask him to throw over 30 times a game.
    The team seems to win much more often when he throws it under 30 times a game.

    I know it's stating the obvious, but it's really how this team has been built. If Wilson has help with the run game, then he can torch the defense with play action. It also allows us to control time of possession and keep the defense rested.
    semiahmoo wrote:I'll say it again - this is Pete's last season in Seattle if the teams doesn't make a legit hard run deep into the playoffs.
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:54 pm
  • I really don't care if Wilson is considered elite or not. Does it make the size of your penis any larger, or smaller if he is or isn't?

    He's the 'Hawks QB, and as so gets my support. Go 'Hawks!! :les:
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Re: Wilson is not Elite
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:24 pm
  • Aros wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:4-4 with 8 to play, 4 home games in Dec. But yeah, there's "no chance" at playoffs. Ok.......


    Right? God it's fun listening to fans overreact after a loss.

    Not.



    Where is the darn like button!! :D
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