Seahawks.NET AMAZON STOREFRONT

If Wilson isn't elite.....

The Essential Online Seattle Football Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:35 pm
  • Then how is Rodgers this season? You can't tell me the packers have less talent then us and yet the are 3-4-1...... Which for those counting is worse then 4-4....... Why don't you guys look at Rodgers numbers vs good d's..... This may be a shock but Hes mortal too and has had games far worse then last Sunday for RW. I Can't fathom the hate for our qb... He is our first and best franchise qb...... Do all of you recall how it used to be?
    User avatar
    Ambrose83
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 709
    Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:54 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:40 pm
  • It's not about numbers, it's about being too short and not magic enough.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5570
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:33 pm
  • There's a misconception for some that "elite" QBs carry teams without any help. That's never been true in the NFL.

    Tom Brady leaves value on the table so the team can put weapons around him. They turn over personnel pretty quickly but it's a rotating group of excellent players they bring in. Right now he has one of the best big targets of all in time in Gronk, along with Edelman and Josh Gordon.

    The year that Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl with Indy? He had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark as receivers. Their defensive line had Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Tony McFarland and Raheem Brock.

    The 2010 Packers had Greg Jennings and Donald Driver at receiver and an elite front seven on defense. They added Finley and then when Jennings left replaced him with Jordy Nelson. There have been some years when Rodgers didn't have many weapons (largely due to injuries at skill positions) or the defense has been bad, and the Packers haven't gone anywhere in those seasons.

    Philip Rivers is having a career year and it just so happens that this year the rest of the team around him is the best it's been since he got there.

    "Elite" is an arbitrary definition anyway but if your definition includes winning with no help then I've never seen an elite QB in the NFL.
    User avatar
    AgentDib
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3533
    Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:08 pm
    Location: Seattle


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:12 pm
  • Hawks fans don't have an emotional attachment to other Qbs around the league. So when those Qbs fumble, miss throws, or throw interceptions/pick sixes no one sees it the same way. I saw someone say that Wilson's pick 6 against the Chargers was the "worst they've ever seen." Which is a bit extreme when you consider decades of NFL play

    I never mind critique of Wilson's shortcomings. I just can't stand when people question his intelligence, and hold him to a different standard from other elite Qbs. Everyone can have an opinion but the negative verdicts on Wilson are unusually unfair and extreme at times
    User avatar
    Scorpion05
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 807
    Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:05 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:15 pm
  • AgentDib wrote:There's a misconception for some that "elite" QBs carry teams without any help. That's never been true in the NFL.

    Tom Brady leaves value on the table so the team can put weapons around him. They turn over personnel pretty quickly but it's a rotating group of excellent players they bring in. Right now he has one of the best big targets of all in time in Gronk, along with Edelman and Josh Gordon.

    The year that Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl with Indy? He had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark as receivers. Their defensive line had Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Tony McFarland and Raheem Brock.

    The 2010 Packers had Greg Jennings and Donald Driver at receiver and an elite front seven on defense. They added Finley and then when Jennings left replaced him with Jordy Nelson. There have been some years when Rodgers didn't have many weapons (largely due to injuries at skill positions) or the defense has been bad, and the Packers haven't gone anywhere in those seasons.

    Philip Rivers is having a career year and it just so happens that this year the rest of the team around him is the best it's been since he got there.

    "Elite" is an arbitrary definition anyway but if your definition includes winning with no help then I've never seen an elite QB in the NFL.


    Yes this
    Well done Sir/Mam
    Hawkfan509
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1130
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:09 pm
    Location: Tri-Cities


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:35 pm
  • Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.
    Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
    User avatar
    TheLegendOfBoom
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 766
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:12 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:50 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.
    User avatar
    Seanhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5455
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:04 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:56 pm
  • Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    You've never heard of this before? It's not new.

    When Wilsons agent gets his chance to negotiate a new contract, he can say Wilsons QB rating has been high.

    Wilson holds onto the ball purposely to keep his completion percentage at a certain level.

    Not new. It's been said.
    Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
    User avatar
    TheLegendOfBoom
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 766
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:12 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:04 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    You've never heard of this before? It's not new.

    When Wilsons agent gets his chance to negotiate a new contract, he can say Wilsons QB rating has been high.

    Wilson holds onto the ball purposely to keep his completion percentage at a certain level.

    Not new. It's been said
    .


    That is a load of crap! He holds onto the ball because he never gives up on making a play. You should watch him sometime, he makes many. :roll:
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5570
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:12 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    You've never heard of this before? It's not new.

    When Wilsons agent gets his chance to negotiate a new contract, he can say Wilsons QB rating has been high.

    Wilson holds onto the ball purposely to keep his completion percentage at a certain level.

    Not new. It's been said
    .


    That is a load of crap! He holds onto the ball because he never gives up on making a play. You should watch him sometime, he makes many. :roll:

    Hahaha, good one!
    Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
    User avatar
    TheLegendOfBoom
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 766
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:12 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:24 pm
  • Hawkfan509 wrote:
    AgentDib wrote:There's a misconception for some that "elite" QBs carry teams without any help. That's never been true in the NFL.

    Tom Brady leaves value on the table so the team can put weapons around him. They turn over personnel pretty quickly but it's a rotating group of excellent players they bring in. Right now he has one of the best big targets of all in time in Gronk, along with Edelman and Josh Gordon.

    The year that Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl with Indy? He had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark as receivers. Their defensive line had Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Tony McFarland and Raheem Brock.

    The 2010 Packers had Greg Jennings and Donald Driver at receiver and an elite front seven on defense. They added Finley and then when Jennings left replaced him with Jordy Nelson. There have been some years when Rodgers didn't have many weapons (largely due to injuries at skill positions) or the defense has been bad, and the Packers haven't gone anywhere in those seasons.

    Philip Rivers is having a career year and it just so happens that this year the rest of the team around him is the best it's been since he got there.

    "Elite" is an arbitrary definition anyway but if your definition includes winning with no help then I've never seen an elite QB in the NFL.


    Yes this
    Well done Sir/Mam



    Absolutely correct
    User avatar
    Ambrose83
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 709
    Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:54 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:24 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    You've never heard of this before? It's not new.

    When Wilsons agent gets his chance to negotiate a new contract, he can say Wilsons QB rating has been high.

    Wilson holds onto the ball purposely to keep his completion percentage at a certain level.

    Not new. It's been said.


    I think with forums there is a acceptable level of stupid.... This however far exceeds that .
    User avatar
    Ambrose83
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 709
    Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:54 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:32 pm
  • Ambrose83 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    You've never heard of this before? It's not new.

    When Wilsons agent gets his chance to negotiate a new contract, he can say Wilsons QB rating has been high.

    Wilson holds onto the ball purposely to keep his completion percentage at a certain level.

    Not new. It's been said.


    I think with forums there is a acceptable level of stupid.... This however far exceeds that .

    Russell Wilson has told me this is why he holds onto the ball for so long.

    It's true!

    Trust me!

    Hahahah!
    Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
    User avatar
    TheLegendOfBoom
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 766
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:12 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:30 am
  • Let's play a game of rank the QB by most elite to least elite, or label him as you see it:

    QB1:
    Yards per throw: 7.6
    Qb rating: 97.7
    Sacks per game: 1.44
    Sacks yards lost per game: 9.78
    Interceptions per game: 0.78
    Fumbles lost per game: 0.22
    Team yards per rush attempt: 4.1

    QB2:
    Yards per throw: 7.8
    Qb rating: 98.9
    Sacks per game: 2.88
    Sacks yards lost per game: 21.12
    Interceptions per game: 0.12
    Fumbles lost per game: 0.38
    Team yards per rush attempt: 4.8

    QB3:
    Yards per throw: 8.1
    Qb rating: 108.6
    Sacks per game: 3.12
    Sacks yards lost per game: 21.12
    Interceptions per game: 0.62
    Fumbles lost per game: 0.12
    Team yards per rush attempt: 4.3
    AlciG
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 84
    Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:06 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:49 am
  • AgentDib wrote:There's a misconception for some that "elite" QBs carry teams without any help. That's never been true in the NFL.

    Tom Brady leaves value on the table so the team can put weapons around him. They turn over personnel pretty quickly but it's a rotating group of excellent players they bring in. Right now he has one of the best big targets of all in time in Gronk, along with Edelman and Josh Gordon.

    The year that Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl with Indy? He had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark as receivers. Their defensive line had Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Tony McFarland and Raheem Brock.

    The 2010 Packers had Greg Jennings and Donald Driver at receiver and an elite front seven on defense. They added Finley and then when Jennings left replaced him with Jordy Nelson. There have been some years when Rodgers didn't have many weapons (largely due to injuries at skill positions) or the defense has been bad, and the Packers haven't gone anywhere in those seasons.

    Philip Rivers is having a career year and it just so happens that this year the rest of the team around him is the best it's been since he got there.

    "Elite" is an arbitrary definition anyway but if your definition includes winning with no help then I've never seen an elite QB in the NFL.


    And, of course, Ben Roethlisberger had the refs on his team.
    GO HAWKS!!!

    Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!
    User avatar
    MontanaHawk05
    * 17Power Blogger *
     
    Posts: 16038
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:46 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:55 am
  • Give Rodgers this offense they would be 8-0. He would have a hay day with all the open receivers. Comparing Wilson to Rodgers is laughable at best. Wilson just looks flat awful in half of his games the past two years. I've never seen Rodgers look that lost and wildly inaccurate in a game ever. Rodgers also has the ability to climb the pocket and make plays like most good Qb's. Wilson just panics and kills the drive with 15 yard loss sacks. Yes we have had poor QB play here in the past but this isn't about that. Its about Seahawk fans thinking Wilson is Elite and worth top 5 QB money. He's clearly not.
    Last edited by RCATES on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
    RCATES
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 446
    Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:09 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:56 am
  • RCATES wrote:Give Rodgers this offense they would be 8-0. He would have a hay day with all the open receivers. Comparing Wilson to Rodgers is laughable at best. Wilson just looks flat awful in half of his games the past two years. I've never seen Rodgers look that lost and wildly inaccurate in a game ever. Rodgers also has the ability to climb the pocket and make plays like most good Qb's. Wilson just panics and kills the drive with 15 yard loss sacks.


    You've just described about 10% of his games.
    GO HAWKS!!!

    Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!
    User avatar
    MontanaHawk05
    * 17Power Blogger *
     
    Posts: 16038
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:46 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:01 am
  • Ambrose83 wrote:Then how is Rodgers this season? You can't tell me the packers have less talent then us and yet the are 3-4-1...... Which for those counting is worse then 4-4....... Why don't you guys look at Rodgers numbers vs good d's..... This may be a shock but Hes mortal too and has had games far worse then last Sunday for RW. I Can't fathom the hate for our qb... He is our first and best franchise qb...... Do all of you recall how it used to be?



    No, most of these clowns jumped on the bandwagon circa 2012/13. IMO.
    User avatar
    Sign37now
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 676
    Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:49 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:15 am
  • Sign37now wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:Then how is Rodgers this season? You can't tell me the packers have less talent then us and yet the are 3-4-1...... Which for those counting is worse then 4-4....... Why don't you guys look at Rodgers numbers vs good d's..... This may be a shock but Hes mortal too and has had games far worse then last Sunday for RW. I Can't fathom the hate for our qb... He is our first and best franchise qb...... Do all of you recall how it used to be?



    No, most of these clowns jumped on the bandwagon circa 2012/13. IMO.


    Clowns? Maybe we could be wildly exaggerated like you. Did we not get decent QB play out of Matt Hasselbeck from 2001-2010? Outside of a little gap between Matt and Russ this team has had above average QB play for the last 17 years. Your point holds no merit.
    RCATES
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 446
    Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:09 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:22 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    RCATES wrote:Give Rodgers this offense they would be 8-0. He would have a hay day with all the open receivers. Comparing Wilson to Rodgers is laughable at best. Wilson just looks flat awful in half of his games the past two years. I've never seen Rodgers look that lost and wildly inaccurate in a game ever. Rodgers also has the ability to climb the pocket and make plays like most good Qb's. Wilson just panics and kills the drive with 15 yard loss sacks.


    You've just described about 10% of his games.


    and 10% of Rodgers games as well
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    * NET Hottie *
     
    Posts: 13713
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:33 am
  • RCATES wrote:
    Sign37now wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:Then how is Rodgers this season? You can't tell me the packers have less talent then us and yet the are 3-4-1...... Which for those counting is worse then 4-4....... Why don't you guys look at Rodgers numbers vs good d's..... This may be a shock but Hes mortal too and has had games far worse then last Sunday for RW. I Can't fathom the hate for our qb... He is our first and best franchise qb...... Do all of you recall how it used to be?



    No, most of these clowns jumped on the bandwagon circa 2012/13. IMO.


    Clowns? Maybe we could be wildly exaggerated like you. Did we not get decent QB play out of Matt Hasselbeck from 2001-2010? Outside of a little gap between Matt and Russ this team has had above average QB play for the last 17 years. Your point holds no merit.


    Clowns as in bandwagon fans here, not QB's... :34853_doh:
    User avatar
    Sign37now
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 676
    Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:49 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:05 am
  • Sign37now wrote:
    RCATES wrote:
    Sign37now wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:Then how is Rodgers this season? You can't tell me the packers have less talent then us and yet the are 3-4-1...... Which for those counting is worse then 4-4....... Why don't you guys look at Rodgers numbers vs good d's..... This may be a shock but Hes mortal too and has had games far worse then last Sunday for RW. I Can't fathom the hate for our qb... He is our first and best franchise qb...... Do all of you recall how it used to be?



    No, most of these clowns jumped on the bandwagon circa 2012/13. IMO.


    Clowns? Maybe we could be wildly exaggerated like you. Did we not get decent QB play out of Matt Hasselbeck from 2001-2010? Outside of a little gap between Matt and Russ this team has had above average QB play for the last 17 years. Your point holds no merit.


    Clowns as in bandwagon fans here, not QB's... :34853_doh:


    He has a little difficulty with properly registering what his eyes tell him as you can "see". You're not alone here.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5570
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:26 am
  • I compared RW with TB and AR, and corresponding teams.

    RW and the Hawks, in the past 6 years are 65-30-1 in the regular season, 8-4 in playoffs, 1-1 in Bowls. Totals are 73-34-1.

    AR and the Pack, are 58-37-1, 5-5 in playoffs. No Bowls. Total 63-42-1.

    TB and the Pats are 75-21, 11-4 in playoffs. 2 Bowl wins. Total 86-25.

    No big surprise. We as a team with RW are ahead of AR and the Pack, but lag TB and the Pats.
    Draw you're own conclusions.
    seedhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2864
    Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:51 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:00 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.

    ALL, and I mean ALL Quarterbacks get sacked, and again, ALL Quarterbacks do NOT ALWAYS "MAKE GOOD DECISIONS"
    ALL the "ELITE" Quarterbacks at some time or another, get caught with their pants down.
    scutterhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6557
    Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:48 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:09 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    RCATES wrote:Give Rodgers this offense they would be 8-0. He would have a hay day with all the open receivers. Comparing Wilson to Rodgers is laughable at best. Wilson just looks flat awful in half of his games the past two years. I've never seen Rodgers look that lost and wildly inaccurate in a game ever. Rodgers also has the ability to climb the pocket and make plays like most good Qb's. Wilson just panics and kills the drive with 15 yard loss sacks.


    You've just described about 10% of his games.

    And "Clearly" he's wrong.
    scutterhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6557
    Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:48 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:10 pm
  • seedhawk wrote:I compared RW with TB and AR, and corresponding teams.

    RW and the Hawks, in the past 6 years are 65-30-1 in the regular season, 8-4 in playoffs, 1-1 in Bowls. Totals are 73-34-1.

    AR and the Pack, are 58-37-1, 5-5 in playoffs. No Bowls. Total 63-42-1.

    TB and the Pats are 75-21, 11-4 in playoffs. 2 Bowl wins. Total 86-25.

    No big surprise. We as a team with RW are ahead of AR and the Pack, but lag TB and the Pats.
    Draw you're own conclusions.

    Cmon man - Wilson isnt Rodgers or Brady and never will be, and that is okay. Doesnt mean Wilson isnt a good QB. Those two are two of the best all time.
    User avatar
    iigakusei
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1562
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 6:14 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:19 pm
  • seedhawk wrote:I compared RW with TB and AR, and corresponding teams.

    RW and the Hawks, in the past 6 years are 65-30-1 in the regular season, 8-4 in playoffs, 1-1 in Bowls. Totals are 73-34-1.

    AR and the Pack, are 58-37-1, 5-5 in playoffs. No Bowls. Total 63-42-1.

    TB and the Pats are 75-21, 11-4 in playoffs. 2 Bowl wins. Total 86-25.

    No big surprise. We as a team with RW are ahead of AR and the Pack, but lag TB and the Pats.
    Draw you're own conclusions.

    TB's year to year competition also has to be factored in there.
    IF TB had to face the tougher competition AS OFTEN as RW & AR have had to do, his numbers wouldn't shine nearly as bright either.
    scutterhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6557
    Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:48 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:53 pm
  • THen Philip Rivers isn't elite either 13/26 That's Blake Bortles territory
    "God Bless the Seattle Seahawks" Cortez Kennedy

    http://ivotuk.com/
    User avatar
    ivotuk
    * NET Moderator *
     
    Posts: 17708
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:29 pm
    Location: North Pole, Alaska


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:04 pm
  • There's an enormous disconnect about "elite" money going on here. It's not as if there are a few "elite" QBs who get that top money then all these secondary and tertiary guys who are getting paid some fraction of it. Josh McCown is a $10 million cap hit this year. Case Keenum is $16 million. Tyrod Taylor is $16 million. And these guys suck. Really, really suck.

    If you're not terrible, you're getting $20 million - $25 million cap hits over the next few years. And if you're good or better you're getting $25 million - $35 million cap hits over the next few years.

    It's not just "Aaron Rodgers" money. It's not as if there are like two other guys who are going to get paid this money and Russell Wilson is somehow going to get overpaid into that territory while all these other good/great QBs are laying around who are going to take much less.

    It's "doesn't suck" QB money. And Russell Wilson doesn't suck.
    User avatar
    bmorepunk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1968
    Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:56 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:38 pm
  • The problem is he doesn’t look better than he used to. A little worse in fact. Man he was so much better when he ran some of the time. Now there’s almost no chance of him running out of those sacks. I realize the Wilson I want had that great D but they weren’t on the field with him when he worked that magic. Yeah beast mode was but still you all have to remember how dynamic he was. Not so much now that he’s a pocket statue. Don’t get me wrong I loved the guy. But he’s stopped getting better.
    User avatar
    evergreen
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 543
    Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:56 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:00 pm
  • RCATES wrote:Give Rodgers this offense they would be 8-0. He would have a hay day with all the open receivers.

    I am positive most neutral observers would rank GB's receivers above the Hawks receivers. It's a difficult comparison to make because QB play does factor heavily in, but Baldwin's injury tips the scale in my personal opinion. Adams, Graham and Cobb would be three of the first four receivers off the board in a combined draft with only Lockett showing up in that mix somewhere.

    We do have the better RB group when Carson is available but they have the better group when Carson is dinged up.

    Everybody here would have taken their OL at the start of the regular season but I'd say it's a toss up now. They have some good pieces in Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Jahri Evans and Jason Spriggs.
    User avatar
    AgentDib
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3533
    Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:08 pm
    Location: Seattle


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:25 pm
  • Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.
    blazen2392
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 206
    Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:19 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 am
  • Pure gold reading this nonsense. 8-0 with Erin? Wrong
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
    User avatar
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 10408
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 am
  • blazen2392 wrote:Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.



    Ya I,mean Rodgers has done better in the post season then Wilson and all....... Oh wait ....
    User avatar
    Ambrose83
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 709
    Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:54 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am
  • Ambrose83 wrote:
    blazen2392 wrote:Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.



    Ya I,mean Rodgers has done better in the post season then Wilson and all....... Oh wait ....


    Don't you know? Rodgers carried a crap team to a SB and has had even crappier teams ever since.
    AlciG
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 84
    Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:06 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:00 pm
  • Ambrose83 wrote:
    blazen2392 wrote:Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.



    Ya I,mean Rodgers has done better in the post season then Wilson and all....... Oh wait ....



    ok.... ill bite.

    are you actually going to try and say Wilson is as good as Rodgers? sit down, take the homer glasses off for 1 minute.


    wilson is our QB. He has limitations and he has strengths that these other guys have. he is a GREAT QB, but certainly, i don't think he is in that tier of QB's I would consider elite. Its not slight on Wilson because I only have 3 QBs in that tier. and for the record I think he is the 4th best QB in the league.
    blazen2392
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 206
    Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:19 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:15 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    You've never heard of this before? It's not new.

    When Wilsons agent gets his chance to negotiate a new contract, he can say Wilsons QB rating has been high.

    Wilson holds onto the ball purposely to keep his completion percentage at a certain level.

    Not new. It's been said.


    Are aliens unfamiliar with football and with no means of becoming familiar with it running NFL teams now?
    mrt144
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3176
    Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:21 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:18 pm
  • blazen2392 wrote:Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.


    Wilson has a better QBR and has thrown for three more TD's than Rodgers this year.................and has a better playoff record and more game winning drives than Rodgers in their careers (20 to 19), despite Rodgers being in the league seven more years.

    It's funny how we all keep downplaying just how efficient and clutch Russell is, and hyper focus on the negative.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 13576
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:58 pm
  • AlciG wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:
    blazen2392 wrote:Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.



    Ya I,mean Rodgers has done better in the post season then Wilson and all....... Oh wait ....


    Don't you know? Rodgers carried a crap team to a SB and has had even crappier teams ever since.

    That so called crap team had a great defense late in the season..
    He has always had weapons on offense plus his legs..The legs are going
    and the cap has hurt the team overall..Father time is catching up-even have
    an old ass JG but this is what happens when you cannot spread the money.
    There is too many holes.
    Will Dissly
    2018 Adopt a rookie
    User avatar
    IndyHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4019
    Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:42 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:42 pm
  • Seanhawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Do elite QBs protect their QB rating by taking a sack, or do they throw ball away?

    Elite QBs make good decisions. Wilson has a tendency to hold onto the ball way too long and usually results in a sack with loss yards.


    Oh now he's taking sacks to protect his QB rating? That's a new one. New, but still extremely dumb.

    If he does it it's not to protect his rating. It's because he doesn't trust what he sees on those plays, or he's waiting for a WR to come wide open while he runs around like a headless chicken.
    User avatar
    5_Golden_Rings
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1348
    Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:38 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:44 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    AlciG wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:
    blazen2392 wrote:Wilson isn't in the same tier as Brady Rodgers of Brees. Period. I don't see why people feel the need to compare him to these guys. He a really good QB who I think can lead us to another SB with enough weapons around him. Wilson has a lot of highs with a lot of lows. He can be very inconsistent. But he's our QB

    Even attempting to compare him to Rodgers is blasphemy.



    Ya I,mean Rodgers has done better in the post season then Wilson and all....... Oh wait ....


    Don't you know? Rodgers carried a crap team to a SB and has had even crappier teams ever since.

    That so called crap team had a great defense late in the season..
    He has always had weapons on offense plus his legs..The legs are going
    and the cap has hurt the team overall..Father time is catching up-even have
    an old ass JG but this is what happens when you cannot spread the money.
    There is too many holes.

    Now consider Drew Brees, who has had more last place defenses on his team than the odds of the Browns firing their coach after a loss to the Steelers.

    Brees is the underrated GOAT. How many unheard of WRs become great around him?



    But yes, even the best need help, and exhibit A is Brees. No one could win with the absolutely terrible defenses he's had most of his career.
    User avatar
    5_Golden_Rings
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1348
    Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:38 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:43 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    AlciG wrote:
    Ambrose83 wrote:

    Ya I,mean Rodgers has done better in the post season then Wilson and all....... Oh wait ....


    Don't you know? Rodgers carried a crap team to a SB and has had even crappier teams ever since.

    That so called crap team had a great defense late in the season..
    He has always had weapons on offense plus his legs..The legs are going
    and the cap has hurt the team overall..Father time is catching up-even have
    an old ass JG but this is what happens when you cannot spread the money.
    There is too many holes.

    Now consider Drew Brees, who has had more last place defenses on his team than the odds of the Browns firing their coach after a loss to the Steelers.

    Brees is the underrated GOAT. How many unheard of WRs become great around him?



    But yes, even the best need help, and exhibit A is Brees. No one could win with the absolutely terrible defenses he's had most of his career.


    This is why wins for QBs is so dubious at times.
    Also the Saints represent one end of a multi pole spectrum of team building, like almost a caricature of what a high powered offense, mostly bad defense unfolds like.

    The more I think about our future, I think it's totally possible to have a team with RW making 30M and win a SB but it has to be done on the defensive side of the ball more because Pete gonna Pete with his offense and OC hires. There will be deadweight loss for half assing a cogent passing game with RW as the QB. It happens. I would totally believe that Pete loves the idea of coaching RW forever and being linked at the hip like he's Sam to Frodo. I am that credulous on them having a good to great working relationship.

    Everyone has their pet ideas about how rebuild our defense to that standard so i won't bore you with mine but it does feel like we need an epic draft haul to do that. Something bananas like 2010-2012. I really am kinda dour on FA signings.
    mrt144
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3176
    Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:21 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:44 pm
  • Elite QB's convert 3rd and long. What does RW do?
    poly1274
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 242
    Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:13 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:26 pm
  • poly1274 wrote:Elite QB's convert 3rd and long. What does RW do?


    Rodgers had six passing plays on 3rd & 5 and greater last week and only two resulted in first downs. The others resulted in a sack and three incomplete/too short passes.

    Brady? Five pass plays on 3rd & 5 and greater. One first down, two sacks, and two incomplete passes. And Brady had another incomplete pass erased on a DPI.

    So we have Rodgers at at a 1/3rd success rate and Brady on a 1/5th success rate. Elite. Second guy is best all time. And they still weren't very successful on 3rd & Long.

    Wilson didn't get any last week, and he had nine pass plays on 3rd & 5 or greater. But Wilson also had 3rd & 8th and greater on seven of those, with the worst ones being 13 yards, 13 yards, 22 yards, and 24 yards. Neither Brady nor Rodgers faced anything than longer than 3rd & 10, and neither one of those guys converted anything unless it was seven yards or under.
    User avatar
    bmorepunk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1968
    Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:56 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:37 pm
  • So I found the numbers for % First Downs on 3rd Down:

    1 M. Ryan Atl 55.7 ( 44/79 )
    2 P. Mahomes KC 52.2 ( 35/67 )
    3 J. Winston TB 51.7 ( 15/29 )
    4 A. Luck Ind 51.6 ( 49/95 )
    5 M. Mariota Ten 50.0 ( 25/50 )
    6 M. Stafford Det 46.4 ( 32/69 )
    7 B. Osweiler Mia 45.5 ( 20/44 )
    8 J. Goff LAR 44.8 ( 30/67 )
    9 M. Trubisky Chi 44.1 ( 26/59 )
    10 D. Brees NO 43.9 ( 25/57 )
    11 D. Carr Oak 43.3 ( 26/60 )
    12 K. Cousins Min 43.2 ( 41/95 )
    13 C. Wentz Phi 42.9 ( 24/56 )
    14 A. Dalton Cin 42.2 ( 27/64 )
    15 B. Roethlisberger Pit 42.0 ( 34/81 )
    16 A. Rodgers GB 41.9 ( 31/74 )
    17 R. Fitzpatrick TB 41.9 ( 18/43 )
    18 C. Newton Car 41.4 ( 24/58 )
    19 J. Flacco Bal 40.7 ( 37/91 )
    20 B. Bortles Jax 40.5 ( 32/79 )


    Brady's not even in the top 20 (28/72 - 38.9%). Rodgers is 16th in the league (41.9%). Winston and Osweiler must be elite, I guess. Wilson is at 37.3%, almost elite Brady territory, apparently.

    http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/lead ... pe=Passing
    User avatar
    bmorepunk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1968
    Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:56 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:50 pm
  • If anyone is interested here is Brees vs Wilson first 6 years in terms of passing. But as you can see Wilson beats him in every single category. Didn't even need to add Wilson Rushing stats.


    Wilson
    2012-2017
    W-65 L-30 T- 1
    161 TD
    55 INT
    1815 CMP
    2834 ATT
    64 CMP%
    99.0 RATE
    22,175 Yards
    19 Game winning Drive

    5 playoff
    2 superbowl


    Brees
    2002-2007
    W-47 L-43
    133 TD
    82 INT
    1906 CMP
    2,988 ATT
    63.7 CMP%
    87.33 RATE
    20,968 yards
    12 Game winning Drive

    2 playoff appearance
    User avatar
    rcaido
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 583
    Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:47 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:14 pm
  • Here is Brady's vs Wilson stats for first 6 years...Wilson beats him too except for Wins & Superbowls.

    Wilson
    2012-2017
    W-65 L-30 T- 1
    161 TD
    55 INT
    1815 CMP
    2834 ATT
    64 CMP%
    99.0 RATE
    22,175 Yards
    19 Game winning Drive

    5 playoff
    2 superbowl

    Brady
    2001-2006
    W-70 L-24
    147 TD
    78 INT
    1895 CMP
    3061 ATT
    61.9 CMP%
    88.48 RATE
    21,558 yards
    18 Game Winning Drives


    5 PLAYOFFS
    3 SUPERBOWLS

    Yeah Wilson is definitely a Game Manager! :roll:
    User avatar
    rcaido
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 583
    Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:47 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:10 am
  • Stats...


    very helpful to those who put the effort in.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    * NET Hottie *
     
    Posts: 13713
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:10 am
  • rcaido wrote:If anyone is interested here is Brees vs Wilson first 6 years in terms of passing. But as you can see Wilson beats him in every single category. Didn't even need to add Wilson Rushing stats.

    Cool stats, but like a lot of people, you are ignoring context. The league is significantly more passer-friendly than it was 15-20 years ago. You can't straight up compare numbers from 2002 to numbers from 2015. It's just a biased comparison.
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: If Wilson isn't elite.....
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:15 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    rcaido wrote:If anyone is interested here is Brees vs Wilson first 6 years in terms of passing. But as you can see Wilson beats him in every single category. Didn't even need to add Wilson Rushing stats.

    Cool stats, but like a lot of people, you are ignoring context. The league is significantly more passer-friendly than it was 15-20 years ago. You can't straight up compare numbers from 2002 to numbers from 2015. It's just a biased comparison.


    Jesus....it's always something stupid! You are "ignoring "context" !!
    Wilson did it with league worst pass protection, Darrell Bevel calling plays, and on a run first team!! :roll:

    That is the most ridiculous excuse I've seen yet. "You can't use that, it happened yesterday and now it's today". :pukeface:
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5570
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Next


It is currently Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:12 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information
  • Who is online