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How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)

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What is the maximum you pay Russell under Pete Carroll

$34M + Pay him what it takes
25
20%
$30-$34M
35
28%
$26-$30M
32
26%
$20-$26M
16
13%
Trade him -- I'll take my chances to replace him
17
14%
 
Total votes : 125

  • Second highest rated passer of all time with one of the best TD/INT ratios in history playing in a system that isn't conducive to QB's. He's not bad, merely good or anything other than Elite and a top 5 QB in the league. Pay him. Wilson in a friendly system would be unbelievable.

    Popeye He's only elite in a run first offense? How about last year with a historically bad run game and a historically bad offensive line? He led the league in TD's in a conservative offense with zero help.

    I'm baffled by the Wilson takes in here.
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  • There's a disconnect between what people think QBs "should be" worth in the NFL market and what they're actually worth. The demand in the market sets an NFL QBs worth, not what segments of fans would like to pay.

    A lot of you guys were flipping out about his current contract a few years ago, which is funny now.
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  • bmorepunk wrote:There's a disconnect between what people think QBs "should be" worth in the NFL market and what they're actually worth. The demand in the market sets an NFL QBs worth, not what segments of fans would like to pay.

    A lot of you guys were flipping out about his current contract a few years ago, which is funny now.


    Not according to Seymour. He thinks you can just tell a player he's worth less and they'll accept that and sign for that lower amount...........and not the reality of the market setting the player's worth.

    "Worth" is a meaningless word. Leverage is the correct word...........and NO ONE has more leverage in the NFL then good QB's. So our choice is to pay Russell 34M+, or franchise him for a year or two and try to find the next dynamic franchise QB in the draft.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:I think Scot McCloughan really nailed it with his evaluation of Wilson about a year and a half ago: He's the best QB in the NFL who you don't want throwing the ball 30+ times per game.

    All of the top QBs are better with a run game supporting them, but Wilson is kind of a strange duck in that he is, IMO, really only elite in a run first offense, which is a strange thing to wrap your head around.

    It makes paying him kind of weird, as even more so than every other really good QB, by paying him you're stealing resources from the places that make him so good to begin with.


    It is not all that difficult. Wilson can only get good enough pass protection when the team is running PERIOD. If we get behind and have to throw, the Oline cannot pass protect, not even this year!! Look at games 1 and 2 for evidence of this. Wilson the 1st 2 weeks was the most sacked QB in the NFL. Weeks 3 on he is the least because we started running and Dlines could not T-off on him.
    Protection is also improving, but his entire career it's been bottom 10 in the league.
    That is why, not on Wilson 100%. He doesn't have the horses to pull it off. Now that Cable is gone it may improve enough to thrive also.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:There's a disconnect between what people think QBs "should be" worth in the NFL market and what they're actually worth. The demand in the market sets an NFL QBs worth, not what segments of fans would like to pay.

    A lot of you guys were flipping out about his current contract a few years ago, which is funny now.


    Not according to Seymour. He thinks you can just tell a player he's worth less and they'll accept that and sign for that lower amount...........and not the reality of the market setting the player's worth.

    "Worth" is a meaningless word. Leverage is the correct word...........and NO ONE has more leverage in the NFL then good QB's. So our choice is to pay Russell 34M+, or franchise him for a year or two and try to find the next dynamic franchise QB in the draft.


    Who crapped in your breakfast? I've never said anything close to that. That is a flat out lie. :177692: Of course they will not sign for less than they can get. :roll:

    It is common sense that if the player doesn't take your max offer, he walks/ moves on. Wise up please.

    This thread isn't about what we WILL end up paying Wilson. It's about what people here believe his max value is to THIS team under Pete Carroll.
    Last edited by Seymour on Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:There's a disconnect between what people think QBs "should be" worth in the NFL market and what they're actually worth. The demand in the market sets an NFL QBs worth, not what segments of fans would like to pay.

    A lot of you guys were flipping out about his current contract a few years ago, which is funny now.


    Not according to Seymour. He thinks you can just tell a player he's worth less and they'll accept that and sign for that lower amount...........and not the reality of the market setting the player's worth.

    "Worth" is a meaningless word. Leverage is the correct word...........and NO ONE has more leverage in the NFL then good QB's. So our choice is to pay Russell 34M+, or franchise him for a year or two and try to find the next dynamic franchise QB in the draft.


    Who crapped in your breakfast? I've never said anything close to that. That is a flat out lie. :177692: Of course they will not sign for less than they can get. :roll:

    It is common sense that if the player doesn't take your max offer, he walks/ moves on. Wise up please.


    You and I spent an entire page with you arguing over Frank Clark not being "worth" 18-20M a year. You think he's only worth 10-13M. Amnesia?
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  • I'm sure Pete & John already have a plan on how much they're going to offer him and what they'll do if he says no. They've already shown they 've planned ahead with the defense by having those contracts only thru '17.

    Me? Pay him what he's worth. It's not an existing number yet. That number will pop up soon enough.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:There's a disconnect between what people think QBs "should be" worth in the NFL market and what they're actually worth. The demand in the market sets an NFL QBs worth, not what segments of fans would like to pay.

    A lot of you guys were flipping out about his current contract a few years ago, which is funny now.


    Not according to Seymour. He thinks you can just tell a player he's worth less and they'll accept that and sign for that lower amount...........and not the reality of the market setting the player's worth.

    "Worth" is a meaningless word. Leverage is the correct word...........and NO ONE has more leverage in the NFL then good QB's. So our choice is to pay Russell 34M+, or franchise him for a year or two and try to find the next dynamic franchise QB in the draft.


    Who crapped in your breakfast? I've never said anything close to that. That is a flat out lie. :177692: Of course they will not sign for less than they can get. :roll:

    It is common sense that if the player doesn't take your max offer, he walks/ moves on. Wise up please.


    You and I spent an entire page with you arguing over Frank Clark not being "worth" 18-20M a year. You think he's only worth 10-13M. Amnesia?


    So? If he doesn't take it and that's our max offer....he walks. People overpay all the time, doesn't mean we HAVE to :177692:
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  • Why are the Patriots dominant every year? In part because Brady married a hundred millionaire and the difference between $15MM-$30 MM makes no difference to his quality of life.

    Name the last team to win a SB with a QB making in the top 5 for his position? 2008 Eli manning was the 5th highest paid QB.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:There's a disconnect between what people think QBs "should be" worth in the NFL market and what they're actually worth. The demand in the market sets an NFL QBs worth, not what segments of fans would like to pay.

    A lot of you guys were flipping out about his current contract a few years ago, which is funny now.


    Not according to Seymour. He thinks you can just tell a player he's worth less and they'll accept that and sign for that lower amount...........and not the reality of the market setting the player's worth.

    "Worth" is a meaningless word. Leverage is the correct word...........and NO ONE has more leverage in the NFL then good QB's. So our choice is to pay Russell 34M+, or franchise him for a year or two and try to find the next dynamic franchise QB in the draft.


    Who crapped in your breakfast? I've never said anything close to that. That is a flat out lie. :177692: Of course they will not sign for less than they can get. :roll:

    It is common sense that if the player doesn't take your max offer, he walks/ moves on. Wise up please.


    You and I spent an entire page with you arguing over Frank Clark not being "worth" 18-20M a year. You think he's only worth 10-13M. Amnesia?


    You seem to be saddled with the misconception that whatever someone pays is the real value of something. WRONG, not to everyone. Was Joeckel worth $8 million? People will overpay, and do all the time. Most of those teams are playing in the .500 bowl at the years end. Clark is not a top 5 DE and if you pay him like 1 then you just overpaid.....period.
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  • Father Time will make this discussion moot. And perhaps quicker than any of us want or wish.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Not according to Seymour. He thinks you can just tell a player he's worth less and they'll accept that and sign for that lower amount...........and not the reality of the market setting the player's worth.

    "Worth" is a meaningless word. Leverage is the correct word...........and NO ONE has more leverage in the NFL then good QB's. So our choice is to pay Russell 34M+, or franchise him for a year or two and try to find the next dynamic franchise QB in the draft.


    Who crapped in your breakfast? I've never said anything close to that. That is a flat out lie. :177692: Of course they will not sign for less than they can get. :roll:

    It is common sense that if the player doesn't take your max offer, he walks/ moves on. Wise up please.


    You and I spent an entire page with you arguing over Frank Clark not being "worth" 18-20M a year. You think he's only worth 10-13M. Amnesia?


    You seem to be saddled with the misconception that whatever someone pays is the real value of something. WRONG, not to everyone. Was Joeckel worth $8 million? People will overpay, and do all the time. Most of those teams are playing in the .500 bowl at the years end. Clark is not a top 5 DE and if you pay him like 1 then you just overpaid.....period.


    If we had a league of 64 teams and over 3000 players in the league one could argue that the face value of the contract and the intrinsic value of the player would be closer together. But given the herky jerky low liquidity market of NFL contracts...well, yes, intrinsic value and face value don't align.
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  • seedhawk wrote:Father Time will make this discussion moot. And perhaps quicker than any of us want or wish.


    Father time? have you seen Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers play this year? All are 35 and over. Wilson is 29 and has never missed a game.
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  • lukerguy wrote:Why are the Patriots dominant every year? In part because Brady married a hundred millionaire and the difference between $15MM-$30 MM makes no difference to his quality of life.

    Name the last team to win a SB with a QB making in the top 5 for his position? 2008 Eli manning was the 5th highest paid QB.

    This is a very good point.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:21 am
  • The Seahawks will sign him for whatever the market dictates for a player of his stature. His stature is without a doubt top 10. Marginal QBs are getting what seems like astronomical numbers.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:31 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    You seem to be saddled with the misconception that whatever someone pays is the real value of something.


    Because that's how it works, and that's how it'll work with Russell.

    This poll is a moot point, you're asking what Russell's value is, or what he's worth. It's irrelevant, he's worth what the market will bear...........and the market for top ten NFL QB's is more than the last guy got, and the last guy got 34M.

    Other than Brady, who's the last QB that got paid less than market value?

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/quarterback/

    Go right down this list and it's the exact order of who got paid last........including guys who aren't even top 10 QB's like Garrapolo, Smith, Cousins and Carr.

    So how much do you pay Russell Wilson? You pay him more than Aaron Rodgers, or you franchise him and hope to god you find another franchise QB in the draft before the cost cripples your cap.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:30 am
  • What someone pays does not mean that is his true value or worth. Every hear of "a disappointment". Ever hear the term "just didn't work out here"??

    Let me try this again.... :roll:


    This thread isn't about what we WILL end up paying Wilson. It's about what people here believe his max value is to THIS team under Pete Carroll. His max value is the most you would pay before you let him walk if you are the GM
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:34 am
  • Largent, I think the greater question is not "what is Wilson worth?", but rather philosophically "can you win a SB paying great QB what they're truly 'worth'"?

    Would the hawks be better of trading Wilson for 2 1sts, and drafting a young QB, using money in UFA and building a team? I mean I guess it depends how good the QB you draft is, but it will be really hard for the hawks to compete paying Wilson 30MM per year- especially with how they want to build their team (running the ball).

    The Eagles won a SB with a back up QB... so I know it can be done but you have to have a very good defense and you have to be able to run the ball at will.

    I'll tell you one thing that I KNOW you cannot do, is win a superbowl without getting front 4 pressure, and we are about 3 good players away from doing that. Russ's contract allowed the Hawks to grab Avril and Bennett. Without Aviril/Bennett signings, we wouldn't have a SB.
    Last edited by lukerguy on Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:36 am
  • Seymour wrote:What someone pays does not mean that is his true value or worth. Every hear of "a disappointment". Ever hear the term "just didn't work out here"??

    Let me try this again.... :roll:


    This thread isn't about what we WILL end up paying Wilson. It's about what people here believe his max value is to THIS team under Pete Carroll. His max value is the most you would pay before you let him walk if you are the GM


    YEP.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:42 am
  • Think of how much trouble we’ve had replacing Lynch. And RBs are much easier to find than QBs. Letting a franchise QB leave in his prime is a sure way to win the Stupidest Front Office Move of all time. Sure let Wilson go in his mid to late 30’s. But until then you pay him market value.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:49 am
  • lukerguy wrote:Largent, I think the greater question is not "what is Wilson worth?", but rather philosophically "can you win a SB paying great QB what they're truly 'worth'"?

    Would the hawks be better of trading Wilson for 2 1sts, and drafting a young QB, using money in UFA and building a team? I mean I guess it depends how good the QB you draft is, but it will be really hard for the hawks to compete paying Wilson 30MM per year- especially with how they want to build their team (running the ball).

    The Eagles won a SB with a back up QB... so I know it can be done but you have to have a very good defense and you have to be able to run the ball at will.

    I'll tell you one thing that I KNOW you cannot do, is win a superbowl without getting front 4 pressure, and we are about 3 good players away from doing that. Russ's contract allowed the Hawks to grab Avril and Bennett. Without Aviril/Bennett signings, we wouldn't have a SB.


    A far more interesting question, and it's really the toughest question to answer.

    I'd be a more conservative GM in regards to Russell. I'd pay him and trust Pete to build another great young defense, of which he's already on his way to doing. He's proven he can do that.

    So me? I'd be far more comfortable keeping Russell, paying him and trusting Pete to build another championship defense...........rather than risk what the have nots of he league keep doing, using high draft picks unsuccessfully on unproven college QB's and sucking.

    I'm all for drafting and developing QB's, but until that QB is on the roster and ready to go I wouldn't be comfortable trading Russell.........because during a rebuild he's the difference between 8-8 and competing for the playoffs and 3-13.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:14 pm
  • I probably wouldn't pay more than 15 million, but this is a ridiculous premise. They're going to pay him. 100% It's going to be near the top of the list. To waste any time contemplating anything otherwise is foolish.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:20 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    It is not all that difficult. Wilson can only get good enough pass protection when the team is running PERIOD. If we get behind and have to throw, the Oline cannot pass protect, not even this year!! Look at games 1 and 2 for evidence of this. Wilson the 1st 2 weeks was the most sacked QB in the NFL. Weeks 3 on he is the least because we started running and Dlines could not T-off on him.
    Protection is also improving, but his entire career it's been bottom 10 in the league.
    That is why, not on Wilson 100%. He doesn't have the horses to pull it off. Now that Cable is gone it may improve enough to thrive also.


    Well, I mean, yeah, a QB can only get sacked on plays when they're throwing the ball -- so the same offense throwing 40x a game is going to give up twice as many sacks as they would throwing 20 times a game.

    And I know we might have to agree to disagree, but even though the players and coaches keep changing, Wilson's "protection" is bottom and has been across his entire career because he creates a TON of sacks for himself.

    On The Athletic this week Sam Gold clipped and went through each of Wilson's sacks (i'd link but it's behind their paywall). If you watch the coaches film three of the four were entirely on Wilson.

    It's why the 49ers have one of the worst pass blocking lines in the league whenever CJ Beathard plays, and a pretty good pass blocking line whenever anyone who isn't CJ Beathard plays (week 2 of this year excluded, when Jimmy G took a ton of sacks which were almost all on him).

    It's why the Colts went from having one of the best pass blocking O-lines in the league until the day Peyton Manning went down, and then were suddenly "awful" at pass blocking. it's why the Broncos didn't have a good pass blocking O-line until the day Manning started playing for them, and they went back to being "bad" again when he retired.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:The issue is not how good Wilson is. The issue is the overall result.

    We are seeing that with this team, WITH Wilson and WITHOUT paying him $35M per year - we are basically a .500 team.

    With Pete, Wilson's ceiling is basically the wildcard game win.

    That is without the all everything defense.

    Now, can you get another QB to get you to the same result even without all the great plays that Wilson does but more consistent performance at the normal stuff? I would expect so.

    We can probably get the same .500 record with a 20M QB that we are getting with our soon to be 35M QB. So he is worth 20M because that is the value he provides. Once he cost 10M more and we start to lose key players because of that - he is worth even less.

    With another coach would he be worth 35M? Almost assuredly. But paying him 35M and stripping the team to reach .500? There are plenty of other less costly ways to reach .500 that do not involve paying your QB 35M a year.

    As the best player on the team on an offensively oriented team he would be worth it, and I think he would be that. But on a Carroll run first team propped up by a better than average D? Not really.

    We will almost assuredly pay the 35M and we will probably circle .500 for years because of that. But he isn't worth it on this team with this coach because he the amount he makes the team better with his ability will be offset by the amount he makes it worse by stripping it of talent/FAs/spend.

    One of the problems with keeping Carroll in the first place was that without his all-everything defense he was never going to get the value out of Wilson other coaches might have.

    No offense, but I didn't read your post. Thinking RW is a $20M QB illustrates flawed thinking.
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  • oldhawkfan wrote:The Seahawks will sign him for whatever the market dictates for a player of his stature. His stature is without a doubt top 10. Marginal QBs are getting what seems like astronomical numbers.


    He should make more than kirk cousins, less than brees and Rodgers
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:The Seahawks will sign him for whatever the market dictates for a player of his stature. His stature is without a doubt top 10. Marginal QBs are getting what seems like astronomical numbers.


    He should make more than kirk cousins, less than brees and Rodgers


    I would agree but problem is, Brees signed a team friendly deal @ $25M and cousins at $28M is likely a better indicator. Last contract they tucked him right under Rodgers by100K per season. I guess I'd have no major issues just under Rodgers again @33M, but that is more to keep him here than I think Pete can get his moneys worth personally.
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  • Seymour wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:The Seahawks will sign him for whatever the market dictates for a player of his stature. His stature is without a doubt top 10. Marginal QBs are getting what seems like astronomical numbers.


    He should make more than kirk cousins, less than brees and Rodgers


    I would agree but problem is, Brees signed a team friendly deal @ $25M and cousins at $28M is likely a better indicator. Last contract they tucked him right under Rodgers by100K per season. I guess I'd have no major issues just under Rodgers again @33M, but that is more to keep him here than I think Pete can get his moneys worth personally.


    Shocked by Brees' salary. Had no idea.

    Wonder if the hawks could go lower annual but more guaranteed
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:46 am
  • He's going to get paid He is a franchise ab. The question is is he willing to take a slight pay cut like Brady to keep this team relatively competitive for the foreseeable future? I doubt it that he would be willing 2 and it's going to take some serious money to re sign him and we will pay him!
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:55 am
  • He’ll get the going rate, I don’t think it’s worth worrying about . He’s one of the top QBs in the league and it usually comes down to when you sign your contract
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:56 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:The Seahawks will sign him for whatever the market dictates for a player of his stature. His stature is without a doubt top 10. Marginal QBs are getting what seems like astronomical numbers.


    He should make more than kirk cousins, less than brees and Rodgers


    I would agree but problem is, Brees signed a team friendly deal @ $25M and cousins at $28M is likely a better indicator. Last contract they tucked him right under Rodgers by100K per season. I guess I'd have no major issues just under Rodgers again @33M, but that is more to keep him here than I think Pete can get his moneys worth personally.


    Shocked by Brees' salary. Had no idea.

    Wonder if the hawks could go lower annual but more guaranteed


    Could be a smart move for them given his rock solid health since he's been in the league.
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:46 pm
  • I would trade Wilson to Las Vegas for Carr.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:Pete Carroll is not capable of winning another Super Bowl with Wilson. Carroll has mismanaged his offenses to a negligent degree while he has been head coach here. His offense just isn't a good fit for the modern day NFL. I'm not talking about the "run first mentality" either -- I'm speaking more about passing concepts, and overall usage of the route trees. Our passing game seems to only work properly when we have a run game installed --- that is because it is predicated on stretching defenses vertically, and banking on teams selling out for the run. Sometimes we go away from that style, but it seems as if we always recommit to that style of passing game. A 30 million dollar plus QB here is a waste of resources and potential.

    I think Wilson is good, but I don't think we're ever going to see more from him under Carroll. What we see is what we're going to get. The only difference is the team will become more hamstrung from signing such a deal. I just look at teams like the Packers that always pay out the yin yang for guys like Rodgers, and I see how the team has a tough time being legitimately competitive. They aren't able to retain talent, nor are they able to spend much in the free agency. All of this considering that Rodgers is better than Wilson, in an objectively superior offensive scheme. I'd rather gamble and see if I could catch lightening in a jar again. I don't think that happens with Wilson under Pete Carroll.

    I'm thinking that Pete Carroll MAY be thinking the same thing regarding devoting such a large portion of the contract to one player. Lots of criticism directed Wilson's way, more so than in years past by Pete Carroll. Jon Schneider also personally attended the workout of Josh Allen. That is kind of an odd move that prompted questions from Wilson's agent. This, to me doesn't seem normal. Of course, I'm probably off base on the last part here. I just think the way Carroll, and Schneider are doing things here raise a few questions.

    :roll: BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!! (pauses for another deep intake of air) BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!
    "Cancel That Mead"
    scutterhawk
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  • Whatever it takes. Pay.


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    DJ_CJ
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Re: How much do YOU pay Wilson? -- (Poll)
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:35 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    It is not all that difficult. Wilson can only get good enough pass protection when the team is running PERIOD. If we get behind and have to throw, the Oline cannot pass protect, not even this year!! Look at games 1 and 2 for evidence of this. Wilson the 1st 2 weeks was the most sacked QB in the NFL. Weeks 3 on he is the least because we started running and Dlines could not T-off on him.
    Protection is also improving, but his entire career it's been bottom 10 in the league.
    That is why, not on Wilson 100%. He doesn't have the horses to pull it off. Now that Cable is gone it may improve enough to thrive also.


    Well, I mean, yeah, a QB can only get sacked on plays when they're throwing the ball -- so the same offense throwing 40x a game is going to give up twice as many sacks as they would throwing 20 times a game.

    And I know we might have to agree to disagree, but even though the players and coaches keep changing, Wilson's "protection" is bottom and has been across his entire career because he creates a TON of sacks for himself.

    On The Athletic this week Sam Gold clipped and went through each of Wilson's sacks (i'd link but it's behind their paywall). If you watch the coaches film three of the four were entirely on Wilson.

    It's why the 49ers have one of the worst pass blocking lines in the league whenever CJ Beathard plays, and a pretty good pass blocking line whenever anyone who isn't CJ Beathard plays (week 2 of this year excluded, when Jimmy G took a ton of sacks which were almost all on him).

    It's why the Colts went from having one of the best pass blocking O-lines in the league until the day Peyton Manning went down, and then were suddenly "awful" at pass blocking. it's why the Broncos didn't have a good pass blocking O-line until the day Manning started playing for them, and they went back to being "bad" again when he retired.


    You've been killing it lately Popeye. I 100% agree with your assessment.

    The Wilson debate is a tough one and I'm not sure what I would do. He's top 10 for sure but only when he's not throwing 35+ per game.

    The system Pete is running does not necessarily need a top 10 QB to be successful imho.
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    acer1240
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