Kuechly Vs. Wagner (Argument)

skater18000 · Nov 25, 2018

Can we put this one to bed?

While Kuechly had a good game today, he wasn't quite the force that Bobby Wagner has been all over the field this season and even today! I can't be the only one who sees Bwags making/not missing tackles more consistently than Kuechly for starters. The rest of Wagner's game seems more consistent as well.

On the Carson flip play, you can see Carson run right by Kuechly and continues to get a first down and then some. In a similar situations, with runners coming right at Bwags, he just stuck people all day.
Today Vs. Cam Newton on the 3rd and short run where Newton tried to take him on.. STONEWALLED. Wagner also made a nice play on the screen to CMC!

So.. both had over 10 tackles and are both monsters in the middle of their defenses respectively, but Wags looks better. Hope he doesn't get snubbed on the AllPro votes he deserves.

Thoughts?

Sports Hernia · Nov 25, 2018

skater18000":nvz3ulw0 said:
Can we put this one to bed?

While Kuechly had a good game today, he wasn't quite the force that Bobby Wagner has been all over the field this season and even today! I can't be the only one who sees Bwags making/not missing tackles more consistently than Kuechly for starters. The rest of Wagner's game seems more consistent as well.

On the Carson flip play, you can see Carson run right by Kuechly and continues to get a first down and then some. In a similar situations, with runners coming right at Bwags, he just stuck people all day.
Today Vs. Cam Newton on the 3rd and short run where Newton tried to take him on.. STONEWALLED. Wagner also made a nice play on the screen to CMC!

So.. both had over 10 tackles and are both monsters in the middle of their defenses respectively, but Wags looks better. Hope he doesn't get snubbed on the AllPro votes he deserves.

Thoughts?

I think age is catching up to both a bit.
On Wagner, he has made more mistakes this year, out of his gap, missing tackles, etc etc etc.
But also the games I’ve seen of LK this year he looks even worse at times.

Still think these guys are studs, just on the downsides of their prime.

jammerhawk · Nov 25, 2018

Keuchly is an excellent MLB, but head to head Wagner is simply better, he makes the D.

olyfan63 · Nov 25, 2018

Wow, love both LB's games, both are awesome. BWagz is the better fit for the Seahawks, and Kuechly has been a beast for years for the Panthers.

It's honestly hard to argue their respective merits when both are so fantastic and I have so much respect for both.

However, I will give you this: On a draft do-over for that year, at the same pick where BWagz or Kuechly was taken, I would take Wagner over Kuechly if both were available. I think Kuechly was a top-10 pick IIRC, while BWagz was a 2nd rounder.

Kuechly is 4.7 in the 40, BWagz is 4.5 a step faster. KJ is 4.75 or so, thus Kuechly is a toenail faster than KJ. So Kuechly could for sure play and excel in our D. However, since speed is that much more important in our D even than Carolina's, it's gotta be Bobby for us again on the mock re-draft.

poly1274 · Nov 26, 2018

Wagner is the MLB, but isn't he suppose to communicate with the team what they should watch for?

Why are we getting killed on screen pass to RB, or Jet sweeps?

hawknation2018 · Nov 26, 2018

Wagner is the highest graded LB in the NFL, and he has no peer right now.

Trrrroy · Nov 26, 2018

They are both good.

SoulfishHawk · Nov 26, 2018

Best 2 in the league imo. Wagz was on fire yesterday, and the better player in that game.

My favorite part was Kuechly whining and moaning about the facemask, when it clearly was a facemask.
Hilarious.

joeseahawks · Nov 26, 2018

LK has had a few of these recently and missed game time.
Warning. Very graphic. There were discussions about him retiring a couple of years ago.
[youtube]4nG0-aeFKn0[/youtube]

sutz · Nov 26, 2018

I'm glad we got Wags, for sure. Kuechly is great, and I remember the moaning when we didn't get him in the draft. But Wags has paid his dues and has been great for us.

As for BWags 'missing some plays' I wonder if maybe all the new players around him are influencing him somewhat. He hasn't had as much help and support on the field as he had in years past. I'm reminded of recent calls for Britt's head the past couple of years when the truth was he was playing between two rookie guards.

I'll give Wags a bit of a pass.

Shaz · Nov 26, 2018

Sports Hernia":37lcg3mo said:
skater18000":37lcg3mo said:

Can we put this one to bed?

While Kuechly had a good game today, he wasn't quite the force that Bobby Wagner has been all over the field this season and even today! I can't be the only one who sees Bwags making/not missing tackles more consistently than Kuechly for starters. The rest of Wagner's game seems more consistent as well.

On the Carson flip play, you can see Carson run right by Kuechly and continues to get a first down and then some. In a similar situations, with runners coming right at Bwags, he just stuck people all day.
Today Vs. Cam Newton on the 3rd and short run where Newton tried to take him on.. STONEWALLED. Wagner also made a nice play on the screen to CMC!

So.. both had over 10 tackles and are both monsters in the middle of their defenses respectively, but Wags looks better. Hope he doesn't get snubbed on the AllPro votes he deserves.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I think age is catching up to both a bit.
On Wagner, he has made more mistakes this year, out of his gap, missing tackles, etc etc etc.
But also the games I’ve seen of LK this year he looks even worse at times.

Still think these guys are studs, just on the downsides of their prime.

Bobby hasn't missed a tackle all season and he's not missing his gaps, the other 2 LBers are missing theirs and he has to cover down when they do

Mad Dog · Nov 26, 2018

I thought both LB's were the stars of their respective defenses yesterday. It was the defensive equivalent of Brady-Manning. Too bad the league didn't think it was worth hyping up as the two best MLB's of our era going toe to toe. It was one of the many compelling aspects to this game.

Seymour · Nov 26, 2018

Not going to put this to bed here.

They are both great players, and one game to the next each will dominate. Too close to call and put to bed.

lobohawk · Nov 26, 2018

Seymour":333vrogc said:
Not going to put this to bed here.

They are both great players, and one game to the next each will dominate. Too close to call and put to bed.

Pretty much. They're both great with particular strengths. Luke has an amazing ability to read a play pre-snap. Think the OL mentioned he was calling out the run plays prior to the hike several times. See also his playmaking ability on gathering takeaways (ints). Wags instincts post snap and stunning speed/power combo is a game changer.

Sgt. Largent · Nov 26, 2018

I think it's so close that you have to compare these guys game to game, even play to play...........and you'll still not ever come up with a definite winner.

Wagner is stronger, more physical, powerful and has tremendous lateral speed. Kueckly is arguably one of the greatest instinctual MLB's to ever play the game, his football IQ is off the charts.......and IMO he's a little quicker and overall better in coverage.

So "better?" I guess it depends on what you want in your defensive scheme. Here? It's Wagner because Pete and Norton need that physical hammer in the middle. In Carolina? Their scheme relies more on Kuechly's range and instincts to get his nose in on seemingly every play.

SeaWolv · Nov 26, 2018

Defensive stats for yesterday's game:

Bobby Wagner: 11 tackles 4 solo 1 TFL

Luke Kuechly: 12 tackles 4 solo 2.5 TFL's

Clearly you can see they had similar games with Luke's being slightly better.

Career defensive stats (both 7 year vets):

Bobby Wagner: 525 Tackles 15.5 sacks 42 stuffs (TFL)

Luke Kuechly: 584 Tackles 12.5 sacks 68 stuffs (TFL)

Again similar but Luke has a slight edge in tackles and stuffs with Wags ahead on sacks.

PFF Grades:

Bobby Wagner #1 linebacker (90.4)

Luke Kuechly #5 linebacker (84.5)

Game and career stats clearly give Kuechly a slight edge but PFF has Wags as the top rated LB by a significant margin.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=401030920
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/ ... bby-wagner
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/ ... ke-kuechly
https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/pl ... agner/7050
https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/pl ... echly/7015

seedhawk · Nov 26, 2018

Uummmmmmm. I think BWags is a bit better as he hasn't spent as much time in concussion protocol as the Kooch has,

Maelstrom787 · Nov 26, 2018

Wagner doesn't rip facemasks.

Wagner doesn't half-ass tackles.

Wagner is faster.

Wagner is more durable.

Wagner is the superior linebacker.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CalvinBoolidge/status/1064349259548385281[/tweet]

Sox-n-Hawks · Nov 26, 2018

How many penalties does Wagner have? Something like 11 in his career. That’s impressive!

Hockey Guy · Nov 26, 2018

Are we so insecure or immature that we NEED everybody to admit that "OUR" player is better than "YOUR" player?

We have a player that is acknowledged to be elite by everybody that matters at the position. Isn't that enough?

Kuechly Vs. Wagner (Argument)

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