That offensive line

Man what a great outing. Makes me think that Minnesota secondary is even better than advertised. There were several gigantic pockets that never collapsed, giving Wilson all day to throw, and this was against one of the best pass defensive lines in the league. Yes, the Vikings got their licks in, and there was the one bone-headed play by Ifedi, but even the best lines give up pressures now and then, especially against a heavy blitz.

The all-22 would be really interesting on this game, looking at both team's lines and secondaries.

What I saw on the broadcast, though, was a solid line that has made huge strides under Solari. Their pass protection seems to have caught up to their run blocking. The balance of that level of protection, combined with 214 yards rushing, against a solid run defense, is the mark of a great line.

They were definitely above average last night. I think their continued success is the key that will take us deep into the playoffs. If they continue to play like they did last night, we will be in every game.

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

SeaWolv":1u1kypmx said:

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

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There were plays where he was under pressure but also plays where he held on to the ball for 4-5 seconds or even more and couldn't find anyone.

The Vikings defense was best in the league last year - the talent is there and it was on show last night, they have some seriously good players, and managed to hold Wilson to a career low passer rating last night.

Jordan Simmons has got to be one of the bigger 1st year surprises. I certainly didn't anticipate him fitting in so seamlessly. Pleasant surprise. :biggthumpup:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/1072388349011337218[/tweet]

SeaWolv":3cs505pc said:

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

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Deion? Is that you?

Per the broadcasters, we had something like 154 rushing yards BEFORE contact.

Russell had all kinds of time against elite defensive linemen. Danielle Hunter and Linval Joseph are among the best at their positions.

SeaWolv":3rtrkbq6 said:

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

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Did we watch the same game? RW was sitting back there having a cup of coffee on numerous drop backs. There will always be pressure on 3rd down and Hunter is one of the most explosive DE in the league. Linvall Joseph and Richardson are a top DT tandem and Griffen is no slouch either. The OLine looked to me as it had one of its best games of the year.

Z.

SeaWolv":3ix3tebx said:

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

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I think that the Vikings were a lot more aggressive in sending more than 4 rushers on a lot of plays which contributed to that pressure. Something to definitely work on as that can't be our Achilles heel during the playoffs.

themunn":19dhilmz said:

SeaWolv":19dhilmz said:

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

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There were plays where he was under pressure but also plays where he held on to the ball for 4-5 seconds or even more and couldn't find anyone.

The Vikings defense was best in the league last year - the talent is there and it was on show last night, they have some seriously good players, and managed to hold Wilson to a career low passer rating last night.

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I don't disagree that the Vikings have a good defense and that was some of the reason RW held it too long was because his receivers were covered.

I also saw some replays where Lockette or Moore were open but RW got uncomfortable in the pocket and bailed a little too soon. The pick he threw was downright ugly. This is what a good defense can do to teams. I can't help but think some of it had to do with DB being out.

Our defense was even more effective against Cousins, they had 2 sacks, 5 passes defensed and 7 QB hits.

Pass blocking was pretty good last night, run blocking was stellar. Vikings have some really good pass rushers and schematically are terrific at disguising blitzes. Lots of motion pre-snap, safeties and linebackers setting up all over the line. Russell looked pressured when they sent a lot of players, coupled with a very conservative game plan, you get what you saw. Safe, deep sideline throws with extra protection and usually no one open. Teams that pass well against the Vikings hurt them over the middle which is something this offense, for whatever reason, doesn't want to do.

ivotuk":18fujwkm said:

SeaWolv":18fujwkm said:

Not sure what game you were watching but what I saw was RW under pressure a lot. Our Oline may be improved but it's not excellent, especially against the #8 defense.

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Deion? Is that you?

Per the broadcasters, we had something like 154 rushing yards BEFORE contact.

Russell had all kinds of time against elite defensive linemen. Danielle Hunter and Linval Joseph are among the best at their positions.

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The stat you mention has to do with run blocking, which was good.

The pass pro was struggling on a lot of downs to keep a clean pocket. I thought Cousins had more time to throw on more of his drop backs than RW. Granted he's going against one really good rusher where as RW had 2 coming at him. I'm not saying it was bad considering the Vikings defense, but to say he had huge pockets and all day to throw is a bit much. He had time to throw on some occasions on others not so much.

He was 10/20 which is way below his career average of 64.2%. The Vikings got 2 sacks and 3 QB hits and there would have been more if he were less mobile like Cousins.

We've gotten used to bad Olines over the years and this is an improvement, I'd just like to see more I guess. This team is close to reloaded. Just a few pieces and we're there for another serious, sustained run.

I think that, generally, fans don't know what a good offensive line looks like, especially in this day of fast QB releases and dominant pass rushers. We expect way too much. Even an elite line isn't going to give you a completely clean pocket every single time. You can probably only hope for it on 25% of your passing plays at best.

Even a great line is going to give up the occasional free blitzer. Most of the time, there will still be one part of the line or another that will bend, and force the QB to move off his spot. They will keep him mostly clean, but you can't expect a completely clean pocket for even 30% of the time, unless you have a QB that gets rid of the ball in the 2 to 2.5 second range, and that is not Wilson's game.

What we are seeing is symbiotic growth of the line and the QB this year. Wilson is doing better about staying on his spot until the pressure forces him to move. This makes the job easier for the line, although it does, somewhat, neuter Wilson's improvisational strength. The line is blocking better, which is aided by knowing where Wilson is going to be. All of this is working to increase Wilson's pocket passing game, something he still needs to improve on if he is to have longevity in the league. I've been waiting to see this kind of syllabus for Russ. He has the skill to be a very good pocket passer, but he has been left so unprotected, for so long, that it is going to take some time for him to develop true comfort in the pocket.

Solari has done a remarkable job, and I think we will see a little more free reign given back to Wilson when it is needed, and next year as the line and Wilson continue to grow.

Great job by both Solari and Schotty.

mistaowen":1msaw7f6 said:

Pass blocking was pretty good last night, run blocking was stellar. Vikings have some really good pass rushers and schematically are terrific at disguising blitzes. Lots of motion pre-snap, safeties and linebackers setting up all over the line. Russell looked pressured when they sent a lot of players, coupled with a very conservative game plan, you get what you saw. Safe, deep sideline throws with extra protection and usually no one open. Teams that pass well against the Vikings hurt them over the middle which is something this offense, for whatever reason, doesn't want to do.

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I think where a lot of frustration with Schotty/Pete, for me, comes from is that is the prescription for that situation and we know that the team isn't necessarily tethered to that mode of operation. I get it too, you're in a tight game and you aren't really setting the world on fire with your base calls against them, so keep it tight, keep it close and don't make mistakes and make THEM roll the dice to win...

The upside for me last night, despite that, was that the defense did the damn thing and it dovetailed with the conservative nature of the offense really well.

It was actually a really intriguing game in a lot of ways because the risk aversion didn't jump up and bite us on the balls - our team pulled through at the exact moments where it mattered the most.

SeaWolv":3b3kxpzm said:

We've gotten used to bad Olines over the years and this is an improvement, I'd just like to see more I guess. This team is close to reloaded. Just a few pieces and we're there for another serious, sustained run.

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But that is exactly my point. This line has had vast improvements. They have gone from dead last in the league to above average. I was hoping for just average this year. They aren't a top 5 line, but when I consider combined run and pass blocking, I would have them in the top ten (when considering that 15 is the average).

SeaWolv":3b3kxpzm said:

but to say he had huge pockets and all day to throw is a bit much. He had time to throw on some occasions on others not so much.

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There were a few times that he had absolutely monstrously huge pockets, without a rusher within 3 yards of him, and times where he did have all day to throw. Not every passing down, but even the best line in the league isn't going to give you that.

This was a huge improvement over last year, and even from the beginning of the year. This line is making steady progress, and it was their best game to date.

bigskydoc":8uly6jns said:

This was a huge improvement over last year, and even from the beginning of the year. This line is making steady progress, and it was their best game to date.

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Well I went to look for time to throw stats and found some. They would seem to support your opinion that the line is vastly improved (exponential) over my opinion that it's improved (incremental).

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

According to this RW has a very high time to throw (TT) stat (3 sec), second only to Deshaun Watson (3.03 sec). I would love to see a TT stat for last nights game.

It seemed that on some of the replays from last night it showed receivers open. I wish we could get game coverage that shows both the pocket and the receivers downfield simultaneously.

Clearly the TT stat is translating to production, with 29 TD passes on the season, only Luck (34 TD's @ 2.63 sec) and Mahomes (43 TD's @ 2.9 sec) have more with less TT.

So what does this say about RW if anything?

First, much respect for that post.

I'm going to tread lightly on the question you posited at the end, because of the binary nature of poster's view on Wilson criticism here. Seemingly even the slightest criticism means the critic thinks that Wilson is awful.

I will say that Wilson's game is centered around Pete's, "protect the ball," philosophy. It can be frustrating to see receivers look so wide open, and see Wilson either unable to see the same thing, or unwilling to throw the ball. He is very much like Aaron Rodgers in that regard. He is focused on the high percentage play and doesn't want to throw it into coverage.

It's just part of his game, and it is reinforced by Pete's overall philodsopy

bigskydoc":1ivfq55j said:

I'm going to tread lightly on the question you posited at the end, because of the binary nature of poster's view on Wilson criticism here. Seemingly even the slightest criticism means the critic thinks that Wilson is awful.

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Let me be clear that I did say "if any" so not a criticism but I get where you're coming from that there is an inherent sensitivity here. The data may actually be saying more about our receivers than it says about Wilson, so there's that consideration too.

SeaWolv":kxbtwbbx said:

So what does this say about RW if anything?

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It says that Russell Wilson is doing what Pete Carroll wants him to do...Take care of the ball, nothing flashy, don't turn it over.
Pretty hard to argue with what has won you a lot of games.

Most prolific Quarterback, Payton Manning threw for a bazillion yards against all oncomers leading up to Super Bowl 48, it wasn't in his wheelhouse to play conservative Football & just take care of the ball---43 to 8

I'm just happy when the runningback doesn't get hit before the handoff like the previous couple years. Not a high bar, I know & I have no idea how our offence functioned under those circumstances.

Hockey Guy":2a4amkrx said:

I'm just happy when the runningback doesn't get hit before the handoff like the previous couple years. Not a high bar, I know & I have no idea how our offence functioned under those circumstances.

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I do!!!

Russell Wilson was our Oline! He learned to run for his life, now he's trying to unlearn that shitty habit. Tom Cable made him learn this or die.

I get that Russell is unlearning bad habits but there are times he needs to bail that pocket much sooner and run not because the pockets collapsing but because there is no where to throw the ball....and run forward not backwards! Even if he only gains a few yards it helps keep us on schedule. Last night he looked as if he was playing on a leash most of the game. He slipped it just long enough to uncork that 401 yard run.