Dak is a winner
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Sgt. Largent
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I would quite put Prescott in the same rarefied air as Russell, but IMO he is 2b next to Mahomes and Watson's 2a next to Russell as guys in the league who have that "it" factor.
He and Russell are very similar in that they can get into a very dangerous rhythm once they get going. Obviously Russell throws a better deep ball, but Prescott can be equally as deadly running around making plays............as we saw last week to win the game in NY.
IMO he IS the wildcard factor for this game. If he's his normal good but not great self with a pick or two, then we win. But if he can get into rhythm early and make some plays opening up the run game for Zeek, could spell trouble for us.
He and Russell are very similar in that they can get into a very dangerous rhythm once they get going. Obviously Russell throws a better deep ball, but Prescott can be equally as deadly running around making plays............as we saw last week to win the game in NY.
IMO he IS the wildcard factor for this game. If he's his normal good but not great self with a pick or two, then we win. But if he can get into rhythm early and make some plays opening up the run game for Zeek, could spell trouble for us.
Sgt. Largent":37tzmhf7 said:
I am not talking about skillset. I am talking about winning. As in Tom Brady winning compared to Peyton Manning winning. Dak has played one playoff game. And #1 seed. Lost. As far as I know the only thing you qualify with a record like that is as a loser
MD5eahawks
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I have to think you’d be hard pressed to find someone that thinks Peyton Manning is anything but a winner.quadsas":1gav3fi8 said:
MD5eahawks":3iow4vj5 said:
Wow, that's honestly outrageous. Peyton Manning is one of the biggest losers of all time, in all the sports.
You've been watching no.2 biggest QB winner this decade, and you can't spot the difference between Wilson (a winner), Brady (a winner) and Manning (complete loser)
Edit: and anyone who understands what it means to WIN in sports would agree that Manning is a massive loser. Winning 12 games in regular season every year is not an indication of a winner lmao. I bet you think LeBron is a bigger winner than MJ is.
Scorpion05
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You can make the argument is a bigger winner than MJ. I didn't see MJ carrying David Blatt, Mike Brown, or Spoelstra to the playoffs. Phil Jackson = Bill Belicheck
I do think Manning choked a bit, but he had wayyyyy more on his shoulders than Brady did up until recent years.
Wilson has already proven he can take it all on his shoulders
I do think Manning choked a bit, but he had wayyyyy more on his shoulders than Brady did up until recent years.
Wilson has already proven he can take it all on his shoulders
John63
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So for me, I guess it depends on what the measuring stick is. I will exclude College due to the fact that well no college teams have a team full of NFL level players.
So Dak has been in the league for 3 years now, he is 32-16 .666% during the regular season, with 1 postseason appearance where he is 0-1. The question of course given the amount of talent his how much is him as opposed to the team.
Let's compare him to Goff first as they both have 3 years in the league. Goff is 25-14 .641% during the regular season and 0-1 in the postseason. Now, of course, he was 0-7 his first year and way better the last 2 but also how much is him and how much is the talent around him
Now Wilson since his name was brought up in the thread. I will use just Wilsons first 3 years and then his last 3
First 3 for Wilson was 36-12 75% and 6-2 in the postseason. now this was during the height of the LOB so how much was Wilson and how much was not
Last 3 for Wilson 30-48 .625% and 1-1 in the postseason, no question there was not much talent around him here
Now the talent around them thing, hard to really discern however I am going to try by using 4thqtr and OT game-winning drive led by each QB, my reasoning is even if they have all that talent and they do little on the drive they still need to lead and that is still huge. The mark of a great winning QB is the ability to bring your team back when needed most.
Wilson in first 3 years had 15
Wilson in his last 3 had 10
Dak has 12
Goff has 6
So my conclusion and I understand this is far from open and shut, and there are a lot more stats that can be used to give or take credit to the QBs, but this at least works at some level. That said I would say Dak is indeed a winner and while he has a lot of talent around him he has shown the ability to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done to win, that IT factor. Wilson is a no-brainer as he is the winningest QB in NFL history through 7 years. While you could say he had a lot of talent around him the first 3 years he also showed he could do what needs to be done when it needs to be done to win, also we have seen him do it without a lot of talent. Goff, on the other hand, the jury is out.
So Dak has been in the league for 3 years now, he is 32-16 .666% during the regular season, with 1 postseason appearance where he is 0-1. The question of course given the amount of talent his how much is him as opposed to the team.
Let's compare him to Goff first as they both have 3 years in the league. Goff is 25-14 .641% during the regular season and 0-1 in the postseason. Now, of course, he was 0-7 his first year and way better the last 2 but also how much is him and how much is the talent around him
Now Wilson since his name was brought up in the thread. I will use just Wilsons first 3 years and then his last 3
First 3 for Wilson was 36-12 75% and 6-2 in the postseason. now this was during the height of the LOB so how much was Wilson and how much was not
Last 3 for Wilson 30-48 .625% and 1-1 in the postseason, no question there was not much talent around him here
Now the talent around them thing, hard to really discern however I am going to try by using 4thqtr and OT game-winning drive led by each QB, my reasoning is even if they have all that talent and they do little on the drive they still need to lead and that is still huge. The mark of a great winning QB is the ability to bring your team back when needed most.
Wilson in first 3 years had 15
Wilson in his last 3 had 10
Dak has 12
Goff has 6
So my conclusion and I understand this is far from open and shut, and there are a lot more stats that can be used to give or take credit to the QBs, but this at least works at some level. That said I would say Dak is indeed a winner and while he has a lot of talent around him he has shown the ability to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done to win, that IT factor. Wilson is a no-brainer as he is the winningest QB in NFL history through 7 years. While you could say he had a lot of talent around him the first 3 years he also showed he could do what needs to be done when it needs to be done to win, also we have seen him do it without a lot of talent. Goff, on the other hand, the jury is out.
evergreen
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Good point I think Adam picks up where Kap left off. A cheaper bigger version of what Russ can do except for the long ball and hero ball.
By definition, a winner is anyone who wins something and in this context wins consistently. Usually, when a QB is called a 'winner' it's used in a somewhat derogatory way in a similar fashion as a game manager. Dak is the perfect example of that definition of a winner because despite having a limited skillset relative to other QBs he has consistently found ways to win games at every level. He's a winner.quadsas":375lcft1 said:
You are making an argument based on your own personal definition of the word 'winner'. This would be fine if you established what a winner means to you in your first post but you didn't. So it kind of comes off as if you are baiting people into an argument and criticizing their opinions if they don't meet your personal definition.
Manning is 3rd all-time in playoff wins and 2nd in playoff starts. He's won 2 Superbowls and been to 4 which is good for 3rd all time. He's 4th all-time in career winning percentage. What MD5eahawks said is correct. By every definition except yours Manning is a winner and in that sense, it's hardly outrageous.
MD5eahawks
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This is an ignorant pov. It’s not even worth this response but I couldn’t resist. The whole narrative of “choke” is just ignorant. I guess you think Favre is a loser, toss in Marino, and Jim Kelly while you’re at it.quadsas":1b1c1no5 said:
I don’t really give two craps about LJ or MJ. The NBA is a joke.
Scorpion05
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People put Wilson’s numbers entirely out of context. It’s like people don’t watch games. If you look at stats you would think Kirk Cousins is a top QB
In Wilson’s first 3 years, the throws he made, the way he read a defense, the 3rd down conversions, the speed and agility he had, it was mind blowing. It was clear the Seahawks had “magic” at the Quarterback position.
Dak definitely has the intangibles. But I’m really tired of media folks/fans and their lazy, non-research based analysis of players. I’ve watched Dak, he’s a never quit kind of gamer but he has never shown the game changing talent and big play ability Wilson has. The comparison is ridiculous and it really goes to show how much media hype can elevate a player.
Put it this way. If Wilson, Wagner, and Baldwin + Lockett played for the Cowboys, they’d be elevated to legendary status. Cowboys players get a lot of praise that they don’t actually earn :roll:
In Wilson’s first 3 years, the throws he made, the way he read a defense, the 3rd down conversions, the speed and agility he had, it was mind blowing. It was clear the Seahawks had “magic” at the Quarterback position.
Dak definitely has the intangibles. But I’m really tired of media folks/fans and their lazy, non-research based analysis of players. I’ve watched Dak, he’s a never quit kind of gamer but he has never shown the game changing talent and big play ability Wilson has. The comparison is ridiculous and it really goes to show how much media hype can elevate a player.
Put it this way. If Wilson, Wagner, and Baldwin + Lockett played for the Cowboys, they’d be elevated to legendary status. Cowboys players get a lot of praise that they don’t actually earn :roll:
MD5eahawks
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Amen to that. That is what makes people hate Legend teams. You see it in sports all over. I think Wilson gets lots of good cred from NFL media but fans just can't seem to want to give him his due respect. Fans here in Baltimore love Lamar Jackson but when comparing him to whom he should be like names like Luck and Vick always pop up. Never Wilson. Probably because Jackson will never be at or near Wilson. Same for Dak. Dak is good. But that has been proven to be based on Zeke's play.Scorpion05":339797so said:
This should be a pretty good game.
Sports Hernia
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Nailed it! Great post! :2thumbs:Scorpion05":147eidl7 said:
hawknation2018
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Dak is alright, but he’s no Russell Wilson.
He does have the 2nd most game-winning drives this year (5, tied with Watson). Wilson has one fewer game-winning drive this season. #1 in game-winning drives is Brees, who should be MVP — but probably won’t be.
Wilson has a long track record of proving his killer instinct. Wilson has eight playoff victories (Dak 0). Wilson is #5 all-time in playoff game-winning drives.
He does have the 2nd most game-winning drives this year (5, tied with Watson). Wilson has one fewer game-winning drive this season. #1 in game-winning drives is Brees, who should be MVP — but probably won’t be.
Wilson has a long track record of proving his killer instinct. Wilson has eight playoff victories (Dak 0). Wilson is #5 all-time in playoff game-winning drives.
Spin Doctor
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Dak is just a game manager, nothing more, nothing less. If you look up "bus driver" in google, I'm sure his face would be the first to pop up. Dak is getting socks for christmas as a kid. Disappointing, but functional. The best adjective to describe prescott would be "meh". Dak is milk toast, on wonder bread that is washed down with Folgers instant coffee.
Dak Prescott, the beige Camry of Quarterbacks. Non-descript, almost invisible, but functional none the less.
Dak Prescott, the beige Camry of Quarterbacks. Non-descript, almost invisible, but functional none the less.
Seahawk Sailor
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SoulfishHawk
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I have always seen him as an average QB. Sometimes he looks real good, but his accuracy is iffy, and his decision making isn't even close to Russ. Clearly he's capable when he's on, but when he's bad and/or if you pressure him and keep him in the pocket, he's very beatable.
A winner is a guy like Wilson, or to give the best example, Brady. Someone who would never ever give up, completely inspire the whole team and make THE plays. aka something Peyton has never been able to do, something Dak, when given a chance, hasn't been able to do. If you think winning 12 games in regular season and getting regularly bounced in playoffs is 'winning' then your perception of what matters in sports (aka actual wins, the championships) is flawed. Guys like Kobe, Jordan, Brady, etc. have the mentality of winning the game at any cost, not just saying 'oh i hate losing, i want to win'. For them it's natural, they have the clutch gene, so does Wilson. Dak hasn't shown that yet.
