Carson 1.5 ypc at Dallas

That's really bad . EE had over 5 ypc . Wilson and Prescott had very similar numbers. The D-line didn't play well and the O-line was putrid . Credit Dallas they just outplayed us . You can say what if and cry about the game plan and not throwing the ball more but when your averaging 1.5 ypc it's going to be a tough night on the road no matter what.

Northwest Seahawk":2dyn2kpj said:

That's really bad . EE had over 5 ypc . Wilson and Prescott had very similar numbers. The D-line didn't play well and the O-line was putrid . Credit Dallas they just outplayed us . You can say what if and cry about the game plan and not throwing the ball more but when your averaging 1.5 ypc it's going to be a tough night on the road no matter what.

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And yet we were avg over 8 ypa throwing it, runnung was not working. Now if you throw more, then they will have to back off, then you might be able to run. However when you are not able to run and keep doing it anyway you are giving up. I mean look we can argue all night but your head coach admitted we should have thrown more and started sooner, so that is pretty much that.

Northwest Seahawk":2qi3f909 said:

That's really bad . EE had over 5 ypc . Wilson and Prescott had very similar numbers. The D-line didn't play well and the O-line was putrid . Credit Dallas they just outplayed us . You can say what if and cry about the game plan and not throwing the ball more but when your averaging 1.5 ypc it's going to be a tough night on the road no matter what.

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I don’t accept this. It’s naive. Your run game is DOA in the first half and you double down and run even more in the second half. 24/73. You know, it’s not even the running amount I have a problem with, it’s the lack of creativity and understanding that your main guy just doesn’t have it today. It’s when you’re running and what you’re doing when you’re not running. I say an empty set on 3rd and two very early in the game. Way to make them fear the rush. I’m not crying about anything, but come on man, anyone who’s anyone watched that game and said, “wtf are you doing?” in real time. It was quite obvious that someone believed the square peg would eventually fit into the round hole.

KARAVARUS":20gyjcfu said:

Northwest Seahawk":20gyjcfu said:

That's really bad . EE had over 5 ypc . Wilson and Prescott had very similar numbers. The D-line didn't play well and the O-line was putrid . Credit Dallas they just outplayed us . You can say what if and cry about the game plan and not throwing the ball more but when your averaging 1.5 ypc it's going to be a tough night on the road no matter what.

Click to expand...

I don’t accept this. It’s naive. Your run game is DOA in the first half and you double down and run even more in the second half. 24/73. You know, it’s not even the running amount I have a problem with, it’s the lack of creativity and understanding that your main guy just doesn’t have it today. It’s when you’re running and what you’re doing when you’re not running. I say an empty set on 3rd and two very early in the game. Way to make them fear the rush. I’m not crying about anything, but come on man, anyone who’s anyone watched that game and said, “wtf are you doing?” in real time. It was quite obvious that someone believed the square peg would eventually fit into the round hole.

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Why even have Davis and Penny and McKissic and whoever else if you will not move away from the guy who is not making hay with the types of runs you're calling in that game?

mrt144":22ak5a6a said:

KARAVARUS":22ak5a6a said:

Northwest Seahawk":22ak5a6a said:

That's really bad . EE had over 5 ypc . Wilson and Prescott had very similar numbers. The D-line didn't play well and the O-line was putrid . Credit Dallas they just outplayed us . You can say what if and cry about the game plan and not throwing the ball more but when your averaging 1.5 ypc it's going to be a tough night on the road no matter what.

Click to expand...

I don’t accept this. It’s naive. Your run game is DOA in the first half and you double down and run even more in the second half. 24/73. You know, it’s not even the running amount I have a problem with, it’s the lack of creativity and understanding that your main guy just doesn’t have it today. It’s when you’re running and what you’re doing when you’re not running. I say an empty set on 3rd and two very early in the game. Way to make them fear the rush. I’m not crying about anything, but come on man, anyone who’s anyone watched that game and said, “wtf are you doing?” in real time. It was quite obvious that someone believed the square peg would eventually fit into the round hole.

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Why even have Davis and Penny and McKissic and whoever else if you will not move away from the guy who is not making hay with the types of runs you're calling in that game?

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Only real reason I can think is fear of repeat of 2017 season. Throw Procise in there too. But you are right, fear alone is not a good reason.

All while Penny averaged 7.3 YPC. Thats not always compete. Bottom line is they should have switched to Penny early in this game as it was clear Carson lacked the speed needed to be effective against this defense. It was clear the first time around he didn't have it. It was also evident all season Penny was the more explosive RB. The stats show this as true (sorry Penny haters). The coaching staff put the game on the shoulders of their 7th round RB pick. Not sure what they expected would happen. Star players elevate their game in the biggest games. The result didn't surprise me.

Looking forward to Penny taking over the lead role next year. :irishdrinkers:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

Seymour":1d67lbck said:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

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Yup, and boom bust is to be avoided with rushing. At least in theory.

Seymour":3swu9t34 said:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

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100% this.

IMO, a steady diet of Penny will exacerbate the boom or bust tendencies of this offense which scored well this year but also had a ton of 3 and outs. Carson gashing for 4-6 was what kept the third downs manageable and drives alive.

Penny is a great option paired with a bell cow but he's supposed to be injury insurance for the bell cow and perhaps an eventual replacement. I get excited whenever Penny gets the ball and gets a crease, but I get depressed when I think of him getting more than 7 carries in any game.

Seymour":1wy5al0t said:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

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Great..... Carson can average 1.5ypc. Lol.....amazing.

Seymour":2lxwo7xb said:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

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Although I agree in principle that Penny goes down far too easily, that play was hardly his fault.

The defender was in his face literally as he received the pitch.

Bottom line: after showing explosiveness on his first two carries, he should have at least had more of a crack moving forward in the game. He at least showed the potential to be effective.

Carson was a beast all year long. Tip of the cap to the Dallas D, they were well prepared. Hawks just chose to not adjust and/or change things up.

Hawkpower":1bsyyfvy said:

Seymour":1bsyyfvy said:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

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Although I agree in principle that Penny goes down far too easily, that play was hardly his fault.

The defender was in his face literally as he received the pitch.

Bottom line: after showing explosiveness on his first two carries, he should have at least had more of a crack moving forward in the game. He at least showed the potential to be effective.

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I also happen to agree with this. Sometimes you just need to go with the hot hand. I was stating why I think Carson still is, and very may well continue to be the #1 RB. And yes...I exaggerated the 2 fingers bit, that was more from previous efforts or lack of tackle breaking ability I've seen from him.

I don't even get this thread, the lack of running production had NOTHING to do with who was running the ball.

DomeHawk":3foomgi0 said:

I don't even get this thread, the lack of running production had NOTHING to do with who was running the ball.

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Then how do you explain Penny vs the rest?

ImTheScientist":3dkevavq said:

DomeHawk":3dkevavq said:

I don't even get this thread, the lack of running production had NOTHING to do with who was running the ball.

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Then how do you explain Penny vs the rest?

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Penny had 29 yds for the game. He had 4 carries, one for 28 yds, three for 1 yd.

ImTheScientist":33881t8s said:

DomeHawk":33881t8s said:

I don't even get this thread, the lack of running production had NOTHING to do with who was running the ball.

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Then how do you explain Penny vs the rest?

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Penny and Carson were within .2 YPC of each other this year with Carson working more in the 1st half and wearing the D down.

1 carry for 28 yards from a hole a truck could drive through is as much luck of the play than ability of the runner. That said, Penny is the bigger break away threat, but no holes and Carson gets more yards.

Bottom line...."Penny vs the rest" is based on such a small sample size there is lose footing you are standing on.

Seymour":2oj1tbse said:

^^^
Except Penny after his 28 yard run on the very next play gets taken down for a 7 yard loss by a 2 finger tackle. That rarely if not never happens to Carson, and is a drive killer. It's also why Carson is still starting.

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This. Every time...this. I cant wait for him to explode....but already, my wife who knows pretty much nothing about football calls him the "knee buckle guy". "Why'd he go down?"..."I dont know babe....he hates me I guess" This is exactly why he isnt playing every snap. But knowing when he pops one he actually has a chance to go to the house is intriguing. This is just my opinion...I dont watch college football, and have no "favorites" before a player dons a seahawk uniform. I think Penny's style is a mirror of Alexanders style. Those knee slap tackles that ended good runs made me wanna puke sometimes. But those jump cuts and downfield vision were sick! Penny will get there. His role is perfect right now until he can prove he can break a tackle at the LOS. Be patient friends...

This reminds me of when people on this site wondered if Forsett deserved Marshawns carries because for a while he had more ypc.

Boom or bust backs are not how you sustain drives. They are a chance of pace when you want to add some speed to your running game.

Carson was dragging defenders even on his 3 yard carries. It looked like a blocking issue and not a vision issue on behalf of our backs

Seymour":33i9lyj3 said:

ImTheScientist":33i9lyj3 said:

DomeHawk":33i9lyj3 said:

I don't even get this thread, the lack of running production had NOTHING to do with who was running the ball.

Click to expand...

Then how do you explain Penny vs the rest?

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Penny and Carson were within .2 YPC of each other this year with Carson working more in the 1st half and wearing the D down.

1 carry for 28 yards from a hole a truck could drive through is as much luck of the play than ability of the runner. That said, Penny is the bigger break away threat, but no holes and Carson gets more yards.

Bottom line...."Penny vs the rest" is based on such a small sample size there is lose footing you are standing on.

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Bottom line for me is if the script was flipped you would be posting about how bad Penny is. You did it early in the season. As the season progressed random excuses with zero evidence started to pop up. Early in the season YPC was everything to you. Once Penny passed up Carson it no longer mattered and you just pointed to limited sample size.

Makes me smile. Thanks.