Is it arrogance?

JayhawkMike

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
777
We go through this most years. We let good players go and don’t address needs in free agency. I have always thought it is because Pete and JS think they are just that much brighter than everyone else. They think they can take other teams trash and turn it into starters. They ignore all the draft projections and take picks rounds earlier because they are just that much better. In the end they fail more than they succeed.

It’s frustrating.
 

knownone

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
5,272
Reaction score
2,207
Spending in free agency has very little correlation to winning. We don’t have the luxury other teams have in cap space, so we’re working the margins.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Messages
3,245
Reaction score
1,358
Location
Westcoastin’
JayhawkMike":33xyu24u said:
We go through this most years. We let good players go and don’t address needs in free agency. I have always thought it is because Pete and JS think they are just that much brighter than everyone else. They think they can take other teams trash and turn it into starters. They ignore all the draft projections and take picks rounds earlier because they are just that much better. In the end they fail more than they succeed.

It’s frustrating.
There's a central theme in Carroll's program.

He always "believes" he can get the "most" out his players. Be it, his personality, scheme, etc.

This is why Seattle under Carroll does not do the "norm."

Carroll trusts his system.

Defensively, it's great to play in Carroll's system. It's very simple.

Attack the QB with a front 4. Linebackers don't let a RB hit the edge or run up the middle. And secondary keep everything in front of you.

Carroll's system is NOT complicated defensively. His scheme, he believes he can plug a lot of players to play it.

Which is why Carroll DOES not want to (at least now) pay a lot for free agents now.

Just my two cents.
 

Maelstrom787

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
11,823
Reaction score
9,524
Location
Delaware
Don't mistake inaction for ineptitude. The vast majority of these contracts given out have been idioticly large OR made by teams with QB's on rookie contracts.

Seattle needs to operate differently, with a superstar QB taking up cap room. Can't just throw money away and field a deep team simultaneously
 

Seymour

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
7,459
Reaction score
22
Who has New England signed?

Do they fail yearly also?
 

Blazenhawks

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
think about the teams that sign people to huge contracts every year.. (redskins, Raiders, Lions, Browns) and they are always at the bottom of the league. Signing FA's don't always mean you are going to be good.
 

jammerhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
10,155
Reaction score
1,764
I think Hawkstorian answered the question posed by the thread's OP best and most succinctly. I agree! Ans: No!

All in all, while it is ridiculously frustrating watching players our team could used being signed by other teams including divisional rivals. The money being dished out is pretty crazy. It can't fail to be noticed that the Patriots have been very quiet, but have lost the best starting DE and starting LT, but are keeping their powder dry notwithstanding their critical losses.

i don't think arrogance has anything to do with the situation the team faces. Simply they are still catching up from some critical mistakes of the past few seasons. The Harvin deal was the beginning, That deal cost them homegrown talent in Tate plus picks and critically started the cap crunch they still face with the very significant salary paid to Harvin part of they had to eat as dead money when he was cut. It was an epic fail, the team's 1st gave them nothing for the future but cost them capwise more than they needed to pay for a late round pick. They failed to learn and after this went all in again trading away a 1st rd. pick for Graham plus another huge contract. This deal was again unproductive costing the pick which produced no long term and little short term benefit but it also hurt the cap and restricted the team's ability improve the team or keep key free agents. Then there were the two lost round picks for McDowell and for Sheldon Richardson which was doubly expensive, in terms of lost unproductive draft picks, Jermaine Kearse, and Richardson's contract which didn't help the present cap position. Then there was the Brown trade which has at least born fruit but has cost young talent. After this season they could return to a sane cap position if they are careful this offseason. I certainly hope the FO has learned something and can return to to a situation where they can keep the players they want to keep and maintain a deep roster instead of one which needs to add 30 players every season to maintain the offseason 90 man roster.

With just 4 draft picks which could have included more comp pick as result of the huge personnel losses of last season but for their huge personnel shortage of last year. JS has done reasonably darn well despite a greater than 5 year absence of first round picks, and three year absence of 2nd round picks due to earlier mistakes made. The go big, or go home go for it schtik is what messed them up. It killed a potential runof championships. It's tough to stay competitive in the NFL and this FO has done a good job but their mistakes caught up to them and they are still paying for them. Sadly the team hasn't replaced talent as fast as it is being lost and they are weakened b/c of the errors made to try to continue to compete. They went in the wrong direction but proved last season they could fix things and started the return to competitive excellence. So far they are doing the right things , but it is frustrating to watch when you want more.

Expect more losses, honestly though, we expected it was possible to lose a great many of the players gone alreadty and some not gone yet. However. if they hold true to proven patterns then they can begin to end this period of difficulty, and again with some good drafting become a dominating team instead of one which is just consistently good. They need to think longer term.
 

AgentDib

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
5,468
Reaction score
1,240
Location
Bothell
JayhawkMike":1ydtsx9s said:
We let good players go and don’t address needs in free agency.
Maybe you could provide some examples? If anything we erred way too far towards addressing needs in the 2017 and 2018 off-seasons.

We could have had a haul of compensatory picks this draft based on the UFAs that we lost, but instead we signed a bunch of short term band aids and traded valuable future picks away for immediate injury replacements for McDowell and Fant. I can't blame them for that really as Pete's philosophy doesn't really fit well with giving up on a year. With the benefit of hindsight, however, I would much rather have gone with youngsters instead and had 10+ picks in this draft to work with now.
 

Spin Doctor

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
5,235
Reaction score
2,158
The Seahawks have actually been fairly active in the free agency under Pete, and Jon. The kicker is usually we're never part of the first wave of FA signings. Even in 2013 we didn't go right out and get Avril and Bennett.

I expect that we're going to go after players pretty soon. There have been rumors surrounding two FA in particular -- Suh, and Tyrell Williams. Both of these guys fit the profile of the players we go after. It seems at least once a year we sign a vet DT. Williams also fits that profile, an athletic veteran WR that has under produced (still productive, but nothing compared to his breakout 2016 campaign) but has upside.
 

sutz

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
29,164
Reaction score
5,185
Location
Kent, WA
Methinks the OP is mistaking confidence for arrogance.

;)
 

SchadenfreudeHawk

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
231
Reaction score
47
Seymour":3ax2juth said:
Who has New England signed?

Do they fail yearly also?

No, the Pats go to the Superbowl yearly. We haven't been in how many years? Just cause this strategy works for the Pats doesn't mean it works for us. Look at our downward trajectory. Pete and John have lost their magic.
 

Seymour

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
7,459
Reaction score
22
seanmatt":39jm280e said:
Seymour":39jm280e said:
Who has New England signed?

Do they fail yearly also?

No, the Pats go to the Superbowl yearly. We haven't been in how many years? Just cause this strategy works for the Pats doesn't mean it works for us. Look at our downward trajectory. Pete and John have lost their magic.

Or possibly it was more luck + McCloughan. Do you really take Russell in the 3rd if you knew how well he would turn out and sign Flynn to a sizeable deal? Nope. Do you really take Sherman in the 5th if you know he has top 3 corner potential? Nope. Do you really not bother to draft Baldwin knowing how he'd turn out? Nope. Do you really take Kam Chancellor in the 5th knowing how he'd turn out? Nope.

Our drafting still is not bad, it's just not hitting near the level of all pro's that brought us the hardware.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
seanmatt":14rt4gmk said:
Seymour":14rt4gmk said:
Who has New England signed?

Do they fail yearly also?

No, the Pats go to the Superbowl yearly. We haven't been in how many years? Just cause this strategy works for the Pats doesn't mean it works for us. Look at our downward trajectory. Pete and John have lost their magic.

What downward trajectory?

Every team but one, the same who pays their qb pennies on the dollar, is playing the same game.

Seattle has been one of the most successful at it the last 8 years.

They are teying to repeat what they did 6-8 years ago with a 30 million dollar qb. Thats not arrogance or confidence or any non-quantifiable emotion.

Its tactical. It worked last year.
 

SchadenfreudeHawk

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
231
Reaction score
47
Seymour":3ui01bg5 said:
seanmatt":3ui01bg5 said:
Seymour":3ui01bg5 said:
Who has New England signed?

Do they fail yearly also?

No, the Pats go to the Superbowl yearly. We haven't been in how many years? Just cause this strategy works for the Pats doesn't mean it works for us. Look at our downward trajectory. Pete and John have lost their magic.

Or possibly it was more luck + McCloughan. Do you really take Russell in the 3rd if you knew how well he would turn out and sign Flynn to a sizeable deal? Nope. Do you really take Sherman in the 5th if you know he has top 3 corner potential? Nope. Do you really not bother to draft Baldwin knowing how he'd turn out? Nope. Do you really take Kam Chancellor in the 5th knowing how he'd turn out? Nope.

Our drafting still is not bad, it's just not hitting near the level of all pro's that brought us the hardware.

You compared our strategy to that of the Pats. This only works if we constantly make good moves like the Pats do. And we don't. You make a good point, we most likely got lucky with those picks we made in the early years of this regime. Since than the moves that the Hawks have been made have been atrocious, but everyone hangs on to the couple years where we got lucky. It's just ridiculous to compare us to the Pats when you look at the difference between these franchises since THAT PLAY. We have been slowly falling apart and everyone clings to the good moves the team made five years ago to prove that this regime still has it. They don't and, maybe regarding your point, they never really did.
 

SchadenfreudeHawk

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
231
Reaction score
47
Uncle Si":2pxytbq6 said:
seanmatt":2pxytbq6 said:
Seymour":2pxytbq6 said:
Who has New England signed?

Do they fail yearly also?

No, the Pats go to the Superbowl yearly. We haven't been in how many years? Just cause this strategy works for the Pats doesn't mean it works for us. Look at our downward trajectory. Pete and John have lost their magic.

What downward trajectory?

Every team but one, the same who pays their qb pennies on the dollar, is playing the same game.

Seattle has been one of the most successful at it the last 8 years.

They are teying to repeat what they did 6-8 years ago with a 30 million dollar qb. Thats not arrogance or confidence or any non-quantifiable emotion.

Its tactical. It worked last year.

2014- 12-4 lost the Super Bowl
2015- 10-6- Lost in the Divisional Round
2016- 10-5-1 Lost in the Divisional Round
2017- 9-7 No playoofs
2018- 10-5 Lost in WIldcard Round

That is a downward trajectory. Then take in the terrible moves this team has made since then. Jimmy Graham trade. Sheldon Richardson one year rental. Malik Mcdowell. Resigning Kam. Letting Earl walk for no compensation. Cutting Sherman instead of trading him to get something. Trading Bennet for pennies. Penny. And look at the team now. Barely any draft capital. Holes all over the place. This team was better last year than in 2017 but that was a mirage. But hey, they did good stuff 5 years ago so we should be happy, right?
 
Top