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How much longer is the world gonna pretend Wilson is elite?

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  • It’s so frustrating to watch him play.
    Halea41
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  • Answer to title question is until he isn't. And he wont be as soon as he has no protection and no run game. Which is where we are right now.
    But that is not all on Russ. We need more money to spend improving our line on both sides of the ball if we can't keep our 1s healthy. No QB can do it all on his own. The cap doesn't allow for that to happen when the biggest share of it goes for one guy.
    Appyhawk
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  • What a pathetic thread. :pukeface:

    Show me any starting QB that succeeds with no pass protection. Maybe the OP would have prefered we get Luck or RG3 in 2012?
    Seymour
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  • Come on. Too many new fans here with the bipolar tendicies. One week, it is, "we are going to the SB!" and the next week, it is threads like this garbage one.


    Relax. Go get laid. Come back next Sunday and root for the Seahawks.
    LastRideOut
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  • Just the heck of it, before we complain our MVP candidate QB is the problem, let's at least give him a chance to win it for us?

    When I saw us get an amazing blocked kick & run back, only to see Carroll run the ball twice with effing Procise, I knew we were screwed.

    They didn't even run twice with our good RB. Procise is a guy you run in space, when you have the secondary spread out and the LBs potentially off the LOS. Not a guy you run near the goal line, unless you are hoping he can run wide and get to the edge. But regardless, your best player is Wilson....maybe use him to as your 1st (and ideally 2nd) option for scoring TDs?

    Plenty of blame to go around, but we knew our defense was a dumpster fire the moment we lost Diggs. We have to win the way we were before we 'fixed' (pre-injury) the defense. That means scoring at least 28, which means 1 TD a qtr. You don't do this by running the ball with your 2nd and 3rd string backs.

    When behind pace, in your best opportunity to score, you use your best player.
    TwistedHusky
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  • Russell is elite, that's been proven with his historic pace of breaking records left and right each and every year he's in the league. TD's, wins, comp %, QBR, accuracy, 4th quarter and overtime wins. You name it and Russell's been at the "elite" top of every list of QB's with stats since he's been in the league.

    What's not elite is his coach with playcalling and scheme, or his O-line that's now been decimated by injury...........I also believe that Russell himself is not right. He's moving slow, which tells me he's hurt, and I betcha after the season's over we're going to find out that Russell's been dealing with multiple injuries.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Russell is elite, that's been proven with his historic pace of breaking records left and right each and every year he's in the league. TD's, wins, comp %, QBR, accuracy, 4th quarter and overtime wins. You name it and Russell's been at the "elite" top of every list of QB's with stats since he's been in the league.

    What's not elite is his coach with playcalling and scheme, or his O-line that's now been decimated by injury...........I also believe that Russell himself is not right. He's moving slow, which tells me he's hurt, and I betcha after the season's over we're going to find out that Russell's been dealing with multiple injuries.


    THIS!
    Aros
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  • Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.


    Get him behind a real offensive line and you'd see just how elite he is. Also get him under a head coach that knows understands this.
    hawker84
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  • Wilson is elite.
    Pete Carrol is good.
    The O-Line is below average.
    The running backs are now way below average.
    The wide receivers have the potential to be great, but usually put forth an average showing.
    bbsplitter
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  • This is so obviously not all on Russ. What's frustrating to watch is him receive the snap and immediately have to dodge pass rushers, week in, week out, year after year. Yes, he gets happy feet at times when the pocket is actually holding. But it holds so rarely, who can blame him? He's been sacked / hit so, so many times.

    I've never agreed with phrases like 'just let Russ take over' or 'it's Russell's game to win'. He's at his best when our running game sets up the pass, not the other way around.

    With the lack of talent on our O-line, we must avoid obvious passing situations to be successful through the air.

    Outside of his brilliant scramble drills, he's at his best throwing off of play-action. Teams only bite on that if we are already effectively running the ball.

    I believe O-line play is the most important element of the pro game. Without that, Russ struggles. Without that, EVERY QB struggles.

    Currently, the combination of a slight bit of age (getting pounded over the years), and the fact that he's probably pretty banged up this late in the season - has our guy less mobile currently. Our O-line play is now even more important then, and they are not stepping up. Lack of talent plus injuries has this position group also reeling.
    timmat
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  • Russ had a great start. MVP first half of the season no doubt. If you’re being honest Russ has been pretty bad for good stretch now. Particularly awful 2 out of the last 3 games. My same complaint with Russ will always be the same. Lack of consistency. Elite Qb’s have moments when they aren’t their best and maybe look like a Top 10 Qb rather then a top 5. Russ goes to a bottom 5 level several games a season. He becomes almost unrecognizable. This is why I personally don’t consider him Elite. Go Hawks
    RCATES
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  • :pukeface:
    Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.



    Hmm 18 posts I smell a troll!
    John63
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Russ' cap hit this year is about $26.3M, going up to $31M next year and topping out at $37M for 2023:

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-sea ... lson-9885/

    His cap hit makes up about 13.6 percent of SEA's 2019 cap:

    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

    Bwags and Duane Brown are the only others with over a $10M cap hit. Most others are on rookie deals or short-term ones. We'll probably lose most to free agency.


    LOL we have a lot of cap space and lets not forget the cap space is going up by more than Wilson's salary. FYI Wilson got the going rate and very soon will not even be top 5.
    John63
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  • RCATES wrote:Russ had a great start. MVP first half of the season no doubt. If you’re being honest Russ has been pretty bad for good stretch now. Particularly awful 2 out of the last 3 games. My same complaint with Russ will always be the same. Lack of consistency. Elite Qb’s have moments when they aren’t their best and maybe look like a Top 10 Qb rather then a top 5. Russ goes to a bottom 5 level several games a season. He becomes almost unrecognizable. This is why I personally don’t consider him Elite. Go Hawks



    LOL sorry every QB has bad games, really bad games for example

    Jackson so leading MVP guy

    4 games with QB rating below 85 the avg mark

    Brady the supposed GOAT
    6 games below 85

    Mahomes last years MVP
    3 games below 85

    Wilson
    4 games under 85

    Hmm Wow what do you know all Qbs have them
    John63
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  • :snack:
    Tical21
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  • For 8 seasons Wilson has had OLs that couldn't pass protect . He has been sack pounded every season . Carroll is so " pound the rock " obsessed that he has basically left Wilson on an "island" to fend for himself ; because he could scramble . Wilson might not be an elite QB now ; but he sure could of been if not for the careless mismanagement of his talents by Carroll . Carroll has always treated Wilson as just another player . I personally am sick and tired of that gum smacking... hand clapping old man . He's wash up in my book .
    xray
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  • xray wrote:For 8 seasons Wilson has had OLs that couldn't pass protect . He has been sack pounded every season . Carroll is so " pound the rock " obsessed that he has basically left Wilson on an "island" to fend for himself ; because he could scramble . Wilson might not be an elite QB now ; but he sure could of been if not for the careless mismanagement of his talents by Carroll . Carroll has always treated Wilson as just another player . I personally am sick and tired of that gum smacking... hand clapping old man . He's wash up in my book .


    Thats because Wilson was and is the great nullifier, no matter what happens more often than not Wilson come trough. That is why he is amongst the tops in 4th qtr/OT winning drives. PC relies on that and more often than not it works, but at some point things are so bad not even Wilson can save him.
    John63
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  • Tical21 wrote::snack:


    I partly blame you for this type of stuff.
    austinslater25
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  • Skip Bayless posts here now?...OP...Hahahaha....so frustrating to have an MVP QB. You are an Imperial Stick of Johnson.
    Largent80
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  • austinslater25 wrote:
    Tical21 wrote::snack:


    I partly blame you for this type of stuff.



    You think he cares, he loves that this is happening anything that denigrates Wilson he loves. Given the OP has very few posts for all we know it is Tical in disguise.
    John63
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  • You can look up my old posts. I have never been a Wilson fan. I do agree the line is terrible but his decision making is bad. He misses a lot of open receivers and often could run and slide for 3-4 yards but often takes a sack or an incompletion.

    There are reasons for he media outside of Seattle to not consider him elite. Fox, CBS, and NFL network analysts don’t consider him on the same page as Brady, breeze, Mahomes, Manning. Russ probably throws the best deep ball and does escape but he just isn’t quit elite. Some of this is Pete’s fault.

    If there were 4 minutes left and Russ has to go 80 yards and he had to call his own played, I don’t think he would be able to do it. He can’t read defenses pre snap well enough. He doesn’t know when to audible. Often calls the wrong audible. Doesn’t know when to keep it and run it to hand off to RB.

    With all this said he is our QB and he will be the best Seahawk QB ever to play for us.
    zchurch74
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  • John63 wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:
    Tical21 wrote::snack:


    I partly blame you for this type of stuff.



    You think he cares, he loves that this is happening anything that denigrates Wilson he loves. Given the OP has very few posts for all we know it is Tical in disguise.


    Exactly. Tical is the leader of the Wilson haters and thrives on losses chaos. That is his calling to dream up new garbage like "can't throw against zone" BS to get his troops rallied from the brick yard. :2thumbs:
    Seymour
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  • Russell Wilson is a pretty excellent player IMO. Like any QB in the league he plays better with better offensive line protection, good RB's carrying the load, and WR's who make plays. If some or a lot of those are effected by injuries or suspensions of course he will play worse. It's the same thing for every QB in the league. Your QB gets worse when the parts around him get worse. No doubt about it.
    SanDiego49er
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  • zchurch74 wrote:You can look up my old posts. I have never been a Wilson fan. I do agree the line is terrible but his decision making is bad. He misses a lot of open receivers and often could run and slide for 3-4 yards but often takes a sack or an incompletion.

    There are reasons for he media outside of Seattle to not consider him elite. Fox, CBS, and NFL network analysts don’t consider him on the same page as Brady, breeze, Mahomes, Manning. Russ probably throws the best deep ball and does escape but he just isn’t quit elite. Some of this is Pete’s fault.

    If there were 4 minutes left and Russ has to go 80 yards and he had to call his own played, I don’t think he would be able to do it. He can’t read defenses pre snap well enough. He doesn’t know when to audible. Often calls the wrong audible. Doesn’t know when to keep it and run it to hand off to RB.

    With all this said he is our QB and he will be the best Seahawk QB ever to play for us.


    New idea for the pro football Hall of Fame, in the entrance to the Hall have a book patrons can page through of all the fan letters, comments and hot takes like this that have super terrible opinions on the players in the Hall.

    I'd nominate this one for Russell's page when he gets inducted.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Seymour wrote:What a pathetic thread. :pukeface:

    Show me any starting QB that succeeds with no pass protection. Maybe the OP would have prefered we get Luck or RG3 in 2012?

    ^ THIS^
    scutterhawk
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  • zchurch74 wrote:You can look up my old posts. I have never been a Wilson fan. I do agree the line is terrible but his decision making is bad. He misses a lot of open receivers and often could run and slide for 3-4 yards but often takes a sack or an incompletion.

    There are reasons for he media outside of Seattle to not consider him elite. Fox, CBS, and NFL network analysts don’t consider him on the same page as Brady, breeze, Mahomes, Manning. Russ probably throws the best deep ball and does escape but he just isn’t quit elite. Some of this is Pete’s fault.

    If there were 4 minutes left and Russ has to go 80 yards and he had to call his own played, I don’t think he would be able to do it. He can’t read defenses pre snap well enough. He doesn’t know when to audible. Often calls the wrong audible. Doesn’t know when to keep it and run it to hand off to RB.

    With all this said he is our QB and he will be the best Seahawk QB ever to play for us.



    wow thats a lot of stuff no facts just your blabbing. This is laughable "If there were 4 minutes left and Russ has to go 80 yards, and he had to call his own played" he has already done it 4 times this year tal about an out and out lie.

    As to the rest once again no facts just obvious bias but hey at least you admitted your biased.
    John63
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  • It is Pete, not Wilson. It's no mystery why Peyton Manning didn't want to sign here. You notice when we ran quick hitters and varied the tempo how we marched straight down the field and scored a TD? What did we do after? We ran the same bloody plays where everyone is doing a deep crossing route, or go route that we've ran since 2010. When we weren't doing that we were running six plays in a row. This isn't new folks, this is what Pete Carroll does. Bevell, Bates, and Schottenheimer's offense looked the same when we get in these modes.

    The ironic thing is whenever we shift from this style of offense we move the ball. Wilson, when he was balling his mind out was playing in a fundamentally different offense. Lots of short routes that functioned as extended handoffs, paired with deep attacks when teams cheated too far up. Where did that go? Pete is where it went. Carroll even admitted that he doesn't like short routes. What is worse is we're playing off of our teams weaknesses. We got this 11-4 record by setting the run up with the pass, and by Russell's arm.

    We're now dialing up running plays into the weakest spot of the offense, into run blitzes, drawing up gameplans around Moore and Turner, and dialing up gameplans that exacerbate the lack of protection and EMPHASIZE our banged up line. This has been a consistent trend for over a month now. Pete's offense has got to go.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Wow, I'm not sure I have ever seen so many excuses before!
    Tical21
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  • LastRideOut wrote:Come on. Too many new fans here with the bipolar tendicies. One week, it is, "we are going to the SB!" and the next week, it is threads like this garbage one.


    Relax. Go get laid. Come back next Sunday and root for the Seahawks.


    Please fix your logo in your signature. You are using the 2011 logo.
    ZorntoLargent
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:It is Pete, not Wilson. It's no mystery why Peyton Manning didn't want to sign here. You notice when we ran quick hitters and varied the tempo how we marched straight down the field and scored a TD? What did we do after? We ran the same bloody plays where everyone is doing a deep crossing route, or go route that we've ran since 2010. When we weren't doing that we were running six plays in a row. This isn't new folks, this is what Pete Carroll does. Bevell, Bates, and Schottenheimer's offense looked the same when we get in these modes.

    The ironic thing is whenever we shift from this style of offense we move the ball. Wilson, when he was balling his mind out was playing in a fundamentally different offense. Lots of short routes that functioned as extended handoffs, paired with deep attacks when teams cheated too far up. Where did that go? Pete is where it went. Carroll even admitted that he doesn't like short routes. What is worse is we're playing off of our teams weaknesses. We got this 11-4 record by setting the run up with the pass, and by Russell's arm.

    We're now dialing up running plays into the weakest spot of the offense, into run blitzes, drawing up gameplans around Moore and Turner, and dialing up gameplans that exacerbate the lack of protection and EMPHASIZE our banged up line. This has been a consistent trend for over a month now. Pete's offense has got to go.


    correct and if you watched the TV PC went right to Schotty and had a semi heated talk with him and what happened next series back to same old crap.
    John63
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  • Dog chasing it's tail.
    Can't even entertain threads like this.
    Sunday night/Monday .net threads are :pukeface:
    The Breh
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  • More like are the Seahawks going to let Russ prove it. I would rather the Seahawks go out guns blazing with Russ throwing 50 passes in a game then trying to rely on some 4th string running back to
    carry any load.
    edogg23
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  • edogg23 wrote:More like are the Seahawks going to let Russ prove it. I would rather the Seahawks go out guns blazing with Russ throwing 50 passes in a game then trying to rely on some 4th string running back to
    carry any load.


    He has already proven it

    #6 in yards
    7 YPA
    3 TDs
    2nd in td/int
    7 QBR
    5 Qb rating
    2 DYAR
    5 DVOA

    Behind
    25th ranked pass blocking oline
    in a run first system

    He has already proven it.
    John63
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  • Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.


    The haters are out in full force today. Must have just gotten the free turkey dinner at the mission and are feeling frisky.
    Tusc2000
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  • Tical21 wrote:Wow, I'm not sure I have ever seen so many excuses before!

    I haven't even chimed in my 2 cents yet :lol: :lol: :lol:
    John you are what your record says you are.. : :snack:
    IndyHawk
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  • Tusc2000 wrote:
    Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.


    The haters are out in full force today. Must have just gotten the free turkey dinner at the mission and are feeling frisky.


    LOL yeah and though the FACTS and STATS show their wrong they will continue to drive their tactless narrative. Interesting though alot of newbies, pushing the same narrative as certain others HMM
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Tusc2000 wrote:
    Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.


    The haters are out in full force today. Must have just gotten the free turkey dinner at the mission and are feeling frisky.


    LOL yeah and though the FACTS and STATS show their wrong they will continue to drive their tactless narrative. Interesting though alot of newbies, pushing the same narrative as certain others HMM

    Some, if not many, of the people who push this narrative would be completely satisfied the Winston/Tampa Bay situation. All they care about are big fantasy football numbers. It's how the new generation of fans judge players. QBs are judged by this even more so than any other position.
    OrangeGravy
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:It is Pete, not Wilson. It's no mystery why Peyton Manning didn't want to sign here.


    43 to 8.
    Old Man Manning would have been a Piss Poor Quarterback....He was a Statue; Without a shred of doubt, Wilson with Marshawn Lynch was a WAAAAAAY better option.
    Don't believe me?, how come the Denver Bronco's didn't just keep on winning Year After Year?...He was a "One Trick Pony", or should I say a "One Trick Phony"
    scutterhawk
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  • Russell Wilson's last 5 season's

    2015-2019

    79 Games | 50-28-1

    153 TDs
    42 INTs
    7.9 YPA
    102.6 Passer Rating (107.3 in 2019 alone)

    to go along with being a runner, 2087 rush yards, & 8 TDs

    PFF Offensive line rank in that span: (30, 32, 27, 19, 31)

    On a team that is built to run the ball, and play defense. Not built around him. Performing at this level you should be extremely impressed, because no one in the league is doing what Wilson is doing behind wretched offensive lines.


    Drew Brees

    72 Games | 45-27

    148 TDs
    43 INTs
    7.9 YPA

    106.4 Passer Rating

    PFF Offensive line rank: (13, 12, 9, 11, 4)

    On a team that is built around him, with a top playcaller, an elite offensive line, with weapons galore.


    What games have you been watching the last 5 years?


    Fade
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  • This has been brought up so many times. I am amazed people still have something else to add in this seemingly endless debate. Personally, I don't.
    MrThortan
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:It is Pete, not Wilson. It's no mystery why Peyton Manning didn't want to sign here.


    43 to 8.
    Old Man Manning would have been a Piss Poor Quarterback....He was a Statue; Without a shred of doubt, Wilson with Marshawn Lynch was a WAAAAAAY better option.
    Don't believe me?, how come the Denver Bronco's didn't just keep on winning Year After Year?...He was a "One Trick Pony", or should I say a "One Trick Phony"

    So what are you trying to say here exactly? I was commenting on Pete's offense, not on the merits of Manning as a QB nor was I comparing him to Wilson. Just an FYI, Manning had a winning record each one of his seasons as the Broncos QB, and appeared in two SuperBowls. Same as the Pete Carroll Seahawks. In fact his winrate was better than the Seahawks in those years. He went 13-3, 13,3, 12-4 and 7-2 as starting QB for the Broncos. I'm very confused at the point you're trying to make.

    Peyton Manning didn't want to come to the Seahawks, in fact he flat out refused Carroll. That is what I'm talking about, not Russell Wilson vs. Peyton Manning, not the Seahawks vs. Broncos.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:It is Pete, not Wilson. It's no mystery why Peyton Manning didn't want to sign here.


    43 to 8.
    Old Man Manning would have been a Piss Poor Quarterback....He was a Statue; Without a shred of doubt, Wilson with Marshawn Lynch was a WAAAAAAY better option.
    Don't believe me?, how come the Denver Bronco's didn't just keep on winning Year After Year?...He was a "One Trick Pony", or should I say a "One Trick Phony"

    So what are you trying to say here exactly? I was commenting on Pete's offense, not on the merits of Manning as a QB nor was I comparing him to Wilson. Just an FYI, Manning had a winning record each one of his seasons as the Broncos QB, and appeared in two SuperBowls. Same as the Pete Carroll Seahawks. In fact his winrate was better than the Seahawks in those years. He went 13-3, 13,3, 12-4 and 7-2 as starting QB for the Broncos. I'm very confused at the point you're trying to make.

    Peyton Manning didn't want to come to the Seahawks, in fact he flat out refused Carroll. That is what I'm talking about, not Russell Wilson vs. Peyton Manning, not the Seahawks vs. Broncos.


    What are you trying to say? Sure he didnt talk to Seattle but we were coming off back to back 7-9 seasons. Saying he refused Carroll because of "Petes offense" is freelancing at best. As you said, he never met with Carroll so he wouldnt have any idea what the offense would or wouldnt be.
    Subzero717
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  • Wilson is pretty damn good but the problems lie deeper than Wilson.

    Wilson masks the inabilities and deficiencies of incompetent coaching.

    How many times have we seen Wilson win games that he just makes magic happens?

    It shouldn’t come down to that.

    But Wilson saves Carroll from improving or making any adjustments.

    This season should prove that if you did not see it in previous years.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • John63 wrote:
    edogg23 wrote:More like are the Seahawks going to let Russ prove it. I would rather the Seahawks go out guns blazing with Russ throwing 50 passes in a game then trying to rely on some 4th string running back to
    carry any load.


    He has already proven it

    #6 in yards
    7 YPA
    3 TDs
    2nd in td/int
    7 QBR
    5 Qb rating
    2 DYAR
    5 DVOA

    Behind
    25th ranked pass blocking oline
    in a run first system

    He has already proven it.


    You missed what I was saying. I agree he is elite. I want the coaches to give us a game plan that lets him be. That cardinals game plan was an offensive dumpster fire.
    edogg23
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  • edogg23 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    edogg23 wrote:More like are the Seahawks going to let Russ prove it. I would rather the Seahawks go out guns blazing with Russ throwing 50 passes in a game then trying to rely on some 4th string running back to
    carry any load.


    He has already proven it

    #6 in yards
    7 YPA
    3 TDs
    2nd in td/int
    7 QBR
    5 Qb rating
    2 DYAR
    5 DVOA

    Behind
    25th ranked pass blocking oline
    in a run first system

    He has already proven it.


    You missed what I was saying. I agree he is elite. I want the coaches to give us a game plan that lets him be. That cardinals game plan was an offensive dumpster fire.


    Well actual the first series was what they should be doing all the time, changing tempos, run and pass mix, layered pass routes. So of course they stopped doing it.
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2600
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


  • What’s stupid is paying any mind to this benchwarmer OP’er. What an ignoramus. Not worth the pixels it is displayed on.
    HawkerD
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 958
    Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:33 am
    Location: Covington WA


  • This thread is just asinine. Yes, lets blame the best player on our team and arguably one of the best in the league at his position.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    DJ_CJ
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 470
    Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:48 pm
    Location: Cedar Rapids, IA


  • There are Eagles fans defending Carson Wentz hardcore. Then you have pathetic posts like this that jump at the first chance to bash Russ. As if he has to have a perfect season.

    If Carson Wentz had the career Russ has had, no way Eagles fans would conveniently bash their QB the way some fans on here jump at the chance to tear him down. Truly pathetic, needs to play all world to get a “good job Russ” from some people. Unbelievable
    Scorpion05
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1368
    Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:05 am


  • Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.


    This thread :34853_doh:
    daveman918
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    Posts: 273
    Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:05 pm


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