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Is Mahomes better than Wilson?

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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:12 pm
  • Who cares? We have a GREAT franchise QB. Be happy. It’s not that hard.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:16 pm
  • You would think appreciation wouldn't be a challenge...….
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:48 pm
  • Sac wrote:
    knownone wrote:Mahomes can do everything Russell does and he has a stronger arm.


    LOLWUT - Russ throws the best deep ball in the game. He might be the best deep ball thrower ever. What is this $h!t about "arm strength?" You want to have them arm wrestle? Is that a thing quarterbacks do?

    That's a cool opinion. Do you have any facts to back it up?

    Wilson completed 40% of his deep passes this season. Mahomes completed 49%...

    As for arm strength, Mahomes has the second highest velocity of any QB in the NFL at 60 MPH. Wilson is tied for 15th at 55 MPH.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:50 pm
  • I wonder how many of the posters saying we'd be a 2-4 win team with a league average QB also vehemently defend the front office and coaching staff in threads where they're getting bashed.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:01 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    Sac wrote:
    knownone wrote:Mahomes can do everything Russell does and he has a stronger arm.


    LOLWUT - Russ throws the best deep ball in the game. He might be the best deep ball thrower ever. What is this $h!t about "arm strength?" You want to have them arm wrestle? Is that a thing quarterbacks do?

    That's a cool opinion. Do you have any facts to back it up?

    Wilson completed 40% of his deep passes this season. Mahomes completed 49%...

    As for arm strength, Mahomes has the second highest velocity of any QB in the NFL at 60 MPH. Wilson is tied for 15th at 55 MPH.


    Kind of silly argument don't you think. Both Wilson and Mahomes have very strong arms, and both throw beautiful deep balls.

    This whole thread is silly. Both QB's are awesome, and both QB's would thrive on both teams.............because that's what great QB's do, thrive and perform.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:08 pm
  • What is even more entertaining and confusing is how many people STILL fight tooth and nail to give Russ any credit. After 8 years? Still fighting that same lame fight? I'll take the opinion of FORMER NFL PLAYERS on what Russ brings over a fan who clearly just doesn't like the guy. MOST of them say Russ throws the best deep ball in the game. Guys who ACTUALLY PLAYED in the NFL. But hey, do what you gotta' do :?

    And talk about a cool opinion, throw the ball in the same zip code as Hill and he's coming down with it. Same as Kelsey. They are both damn good QB's, and likely would both succeed on either team. Why is that so hard to accept? Give Russ that same offense that Mahomes has to work with, he would likely be playing in the Super Bowl as well. You know, like he has done TWICE. But let me guess, it's only because of the Defense right?

    If someone says Mahomes is better, cool. I can buy that.
    But the same goes if they say Russ is better. And honestly, why does it matter?
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:26 pm

Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:27 pm

Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:37 pm
  • WHO WERE THE BEST QUARTERBACKS THROWING LONG PASSES IN 2019?
    January 7, 2020 · by Kyle Rodemann · in NFL, Uncategorized · Leave a comment

    The Most Impactful

    Points Earned is one way to determine which quarterbacks have made the largest positive impact while throwing the deep ball. Here is a quick explanation of Points Earned, as written by Alex Vigderman:

    The core assumption of passing Points Earned is that each throw has a certain expected outcome based on information like the route, the depth, and the coverage. From that point, the passer and receiver split responsibility for how well they perform above that expectation. Throwing off-target passes and deserved interceptions (caught or not) will bury a signal-caller, while he will be rewarded for leading receivers to more yards after catch and making something out of a broken pocket.

    A more in-depth explanation can be found here. This stat shows which quarterback has helped their team win the most while throwing the deep ball. Check out the league leaders below:

    Quarterback Points Earned
    Russell Wilson 31.4
    Kirk Cousins 28.0
    Dak Prescott 23.3
    Gardner Minshew 22.3
    Jimmy Garoppolo 22.1
    Kyler Murray 19.6
    Patrick Mahomes 18.6
    Wilson rates best. His 31.4 points is three higher than Kirk Cousins’ 28.0 at number two. This stat shows how impactful Wilson has been on his deep throws.

    Getting specific, Wilson was 30-of-71 (42%) with six touchdowns, two interceptions and 40 catchable throws (56% of throws were catchable). Wilson averaged just over 30 air yards per completion, which ranked second to Ryan Tannehill’s 31 among quarterbacks who completed at least 10 such passes.

    Kyler Murray is a surprise name on this list. The exciting rookie has room to grow in Kliff Kingsbury’s offense.

    https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/2020/01/07/who-were-the-best-quarterbacks-throwing-long-passes-in-2019/
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:45 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Yeah, that arm strength thing is a VERY weak argument. Kaepersnatch had a very strong arm. How did that turn out? Guys like Steve Young didn't exactly have a cannon. You either get it to the right spot or you don't.
    Also, decision making is HUGE, especially in the clutch. Russ has been one of the best finishers in league history, regardless how much people want to deny that fact. And hey, I THINK most Hawks fans are happy we have Russ. And you know KC fans are happy with Mahomes. No need to compare, just appreciate two incredible talents who we get to see play.



    Its arm strength + skill, not just raw arm strength. Mahomes has a big arm and is extremely accurate. I would say its a push between Wilson and Mahomes in accuracy. but in terms of arm strength, I have to give it to Mahomes. Those throws across his body and off his back foot that he puts in the breadbasket takes serious arm talent that I haven't seen any QB make in their careers besides Rodgers. He has played as flawless of a playoff as a QB has played in recent memory. If he beats the 49ers this weekend he is also going to have a serious HoF Resume in just his 2nd years as a starter.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:06 am
  • No, Russell is clearly better than Mahomes.
    Review the Seattle vs. KC tape from 2018, Mahomes' MVP year.
    Russell the gunslinger outdueled Mahomes, and Seattle won.
    There you have it. Evidence-based conclusions. Cherry picked for convenience.
    It was a helluva fun game to watch too.

    Plus Russell is better than DeShaun Watson. Same rationale. Remember that gunslinger duel those two had a couple years ago?
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:03 pm
  • olyfan63 wrote:No, Russell is clearly better than Mahomes.
    Review the Seattle vs. KC tape from 2018, Mahomes' MVP year.
    Russell the gunslinger outdueled Mahomes, and Seattle won.
    There you have it. Evidence-based conclusions. Cherry picked for convenience.
    It was a helluva fun game to watch too.

    Plus Russell is better than DeShaun Watson. Same rationale. Remember that gunslinger duel those two had a couple years ago?


    Seattle ran for over 200 yards that game too, interesting.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:37 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I think Wilson is definitely hamstrung from what he's capable of being, though.

    Exactimundo
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:17 am
  • Fade wrote:Put Mahomes on the Seahawks. Put Wilson on the Chiefs. What happens?


    Video game number for Russ, Mahomes on IR.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:36 am
  • jeremiah wrote:
    Fade wrote:Put Mahomes on the Seahawks. Put Wilson on the Chiefs. What happens?


    Video game number for Russ, Mahomes on IR.



    Exactly

    Mahomes in 2 years 3 missed games oline avg pass blocking ranking 4th
    Wilson in 8 years 0 missed games oline avg pass blocking ranking 26th
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:34 am
  • Pretty sure the results of a poll like this would be far different in Seattle than anywhere else. Russ is great, but Mahomes? C'mon. Let's be real here.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:41 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:Pretty sure the results of a poll like this would be far different in Seattle than anywhere else. Russ is great, but Mahomes? C'mon. Let's be real here.

    You need to follow your own advice, :roll: "Let's Be Real Here"... For several MORE years of play, Wilson has PROVEN MORE, with LESS PASS PROTECTION, + Wilson has done it WITHOUT having a Quarterbacks Coach, who has BUILT AN O-LNE that ranks #4 in the League.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:46 pm
  • NJlargent wrote:I think RW is slightly better but not by much. Mahomes however looks much better because he’s not handcuffed.


    YUP.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:45 pm
  • RW4LIFE wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:I think RW is slightly better but not by much. Mahomes however looks much better because he’s not handcuffed.


    YUP.


    User name checks out
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:59 pm
  • HawkerD wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Fade wrote:...
    Garroppolo threw it 8 times on Sunday. 8 times.

    Because he only had to throw it 8 times. On the hawks PC wants to only throw it 8 times, trys to only throw it 8 times, then realizes he is down 21-0 and FINALLY changes the game plan.


    This is everyone's weekly reminder that the Packers game in the first half saw Seattle throw 17 times and run 7 times.

    Back on topic - yes, 2019 Mahomes is better than 2019 Wilson. He isn't necessarily better than 2013-2015 Wilson.

    And I'm curious what 2026 Mahomes will look like. Probably like 2019 Wilson.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:31 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    HawkerD wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Fade wrote:...
    Garroppolo threw it 8 times on Sunday. 8 times.

    Because he only had to throw it 8 times. On the hawks PC wants to only throw it 8 times, trys to only throw it 8 times, then realizes he is down 21-0 and FINALLY changes the game plan.


    This is everyone's weekly reminder that the Packers game in the first half saw Seattle throw 17 times and run 7 times.

    Back on topic - yes, 2019 Mahomes is better than 2019 Wilson. He isn't necessarily better than 2013-2015 Wilson.

    And I'm curious what 2026 Mahomes will look like. Probably like 2019 Wilson.


    And I will remind you it is not about quality, but quality which sucked in the 1st half. As to the rest yes Mahomes is better, its not that he has a better oline which he does, or a better wr corps which he does, or a much better passing scheme which he does oh wait if he has all of that is he really better or just has more around him. I know that cant be it, it has to be what ever the group think says, and there is no room for any other possibilities.
    Last edited by John63 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:51 am
  • John63 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    HawkerD wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:

    Because he only had to throw it 8 times. On the hawks PC wants to only throw it 8 times, trys to only throw it 8 times, then realizes he is down 21-0 and FINALLY changes the game plan.


    This is everyone's weekly reminder that the Packers game in the first half saw Seattle throw 17 times and run 7 times.

    Back on topic - yes, 2019 Mahomes is better than 2019 Wilson. He isn't necessarily better than 2013-2015 Wilson.

    And I'm curious what 2026 Mahomes will look like. Probably like 2019 Wilson.


    And I will remind you it is not about quatity, but quality which sucked in the 1st half. As to the rest yes Mahomes is better, its kot that he has a better oline which he does, or a better wr corps which he does, or a much better passing scheme which he does oh wait if he has all of that is he really better or just has more around him. I know that cant be it, it has to be what ever the group think says, and there is no room for any other possibilities.

    I want PM to make out like a bandit with that new contract he gets..
    We will see just how good he is when they can't pay for all those pieces around him.
    Then we will have a fair comp with RW for the most part.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:02 am
  • Fade wrote:Put Mahomes on the Seahawks. Put Wilson on the Chiefs. What happens?


    The Seahawks would be a better team because they'd 20 million more to spend in free agency while the Chiefs are probably not franchising Chris Jones and cutting Sammy Watkins to make the money work for Russell.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:39 am
  • Yes, he is. But that's okay because RW is still great.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:46 am
  • "As for arm strength, Mahomes has the second highest velocity of any QB in the NFL at 60 MPH. Wilson is tied for 15th at 55 MPH."

    Curious as to how this is measured?
    Did they go to the same location on the same day, same moment and sling a number of balls with a jugs gun? I think not.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:04 am
  • TreeRon wrote:"As for arm strength, Mahomes has the second highest velocity of any QB in the NFL at 60 MPH. Wilson is tied for 15th at 55 MPH."

    Curious as to how this is measured?
    Did they go to the same location on the same day, same moment and sling a number of balls with a jugs gun? I think not.



    Probably how they measure pitchers?

    I mean come on... its not super hard.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:06 pm
  • Yes, and the dead tell should be the fact that even as Seahawk homers this is a debate. Where as for KC Homers and the majority of the nation it's not even a question Mahomes > RW. RW is great though, happy to have him, but I'll recognize Mahomes is better.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:14 pm
  • Is Mahomes a better athlete? Hard to say both are baseball and Football guys, Wilson is by far a superior QB though at this juncture.

    Who was the Better QB Peyton or Brett, Peyton was a more cerebral QB but Brett a better physically gifted player.

    Systems and allowances also are a factor. Why you never have apples to apples, Mahomes could be better, but not yet.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:50 pm
  • ZagHawk wrote:Yes, and the dead tell should be the fact that even as Seahawk homers this is a debate. Where as for KC Homers and the majority of the nation it's not even a question Mahomes > RW. RW is great though, happy to have him, but I'll recognize Mahomes is better.



    See, I don't think he is.

    I just don't the two are dissimilar enough to compare.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:29 am
  • After his second year of starting I think Mahomes is a better QB than Russell was after his second year of starting.

    Comparing Wilson going into year 9 to Mahomes going into year 3 is comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

    I think practically everyone would also put them both in the top tier of QBs in the NFL (which for me this year probably consists of four guys), and more generally I think tiers (rather than raw rankings) is the correct way to think about players and their abilities (raw rankings is just way too fine grained to be meaningful).
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:41 am
  • getnasty wrote:
    Fade wrote:Put Mahomes on the Seahawks. Put Wilson on the Chiefs. What happens?


    The Seahawks would be a better team because they'd 20 million more to spend in free agency while the Chiefs are probably not franchising Chris Jones and cutting Sammy Watkins to make the money work for Russell.


    Nice strawman.

    The question is, who is the better QB?

    Russell Wilson #1 in WAR @ 4.08 > Patrick Mahomes @ 2.96
    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-seattle-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-pffs-most-valuable-player

    Advanced metrics point to Wilson being better right now. Tight window throw %, Big time throws. Once you take these QBs out of their very different systems and the talent surrounding them, Wilson wins out.

    But I fully understand normies thinking Mahomes is better because of the offense he plays in.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:26 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    getnasty wrote:
    Fade wrote:Put Mahomes on the Seahawks. Put Wilson on the Chiefs. What happens?


    The Seahawks would be a better team because they'd 20 million more to spend in free agency while the Chiefs are probably not franchising Chris Jones and cutting Sammy Watkins to make the money work for Russell.


    Nice strawman.

    The question is, who is the better QB?

    Russell Wilson #1 in WAR @ 4.08 > Patrick Mahomes @ 2.96
    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-seattle-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-pffs-most-valuable-player

    Advanced metrics point to Wilson being better right now. Tight window throw %, Big time throws. Once you take these QBs out of their very different systems and the talent surrounding them, Wilson wins out.

    But I fully understand normies thinking Mahomes is better because of the offense he plays in.


    Bingo
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:24 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:After his second year of starting I think Mahomes is a better QB than Russell was after his second year of starting.

    Comparing Wilson going into year 9 to Mahomes going into year 3 is comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

    I think practically everyone would also put them both in the top tier of QBs in the NFL (which for me this year probably consists of four guys), and more generally I think tiers (rather than raw rankings) is the correct way to think about players and their abilities (raw rankings is just way too fine grained to be meaningful).


    The stats are pretty interesting.

    Wilson had the same number of TDs as Mahomes, but with nearly 800 less yards (Mahomes also played less games).

    I always got the feeling that Mahomes system allows him to move around the pocket as part of the play call, whereas Wilson, especially back in the day, was moving around the pocket because it had indeed collapsed.

    A vision of control over chaos.

    I think Wilson is better in the pocket now, hard to say back in 2013.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:25 pm
  • Who cares?, what a dumb argument.

    Both are the best in the NFL.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:33 pm
  • Sorry folks....

    I guess we are stuck with Russell Wilson.

    Sad times indeed...

    His velocity is not as good as Mahomes. We are doomed.

    We should get Cutler. That dude has a cannon that is stronger than anyone's.
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:06 pm
  • acer1240 wrote:Sorry folks....

    I guess we are stuck with Russell Wilson.

    Sad times indeed...

    His velocity is not as good as Mahomes. We are doomed.

    We should get Cutler. That dude has a cannon that is stronger than anyone's.

    Jeff George thinks you're wrong (he had an unreal arm too) but I get your point. :D
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Re: Is Mahomes better than Wilson?
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:47 am
  • FalconsFanNW wrote:The experts at 710 just said Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL... with Wilson #2.

    As someone else said... as we saw 2 weeks later, Mahomes has a history of getting it done in the clutch. Mahomes does have the stronger arm.


    beaumaris wrote:Russell Wilson best QB in the league right now,but Mahomes is still the man for the late decisive score. :2thumbs:


    FIFY. I knew all along.
    - Nostradamus
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