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We're sitting at about 59 million

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We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:36 am
  • Do you spend 40 of that on Clowney/Reed?

    We can do some things like cutting Dickson and Britt, and that will save you about an additional what, 15? But does that leave Joey Hunt?

    Our current defensive linemen group coming back consists of: Naz Jones, LJ Collier, Poona Ford, Rasheem Green and Demarcus Christmas.

    I keep hearing around here that we have all this cap space to go shopping. I guess we kind of do, but we have are starting with a totally empty cupboard, and cap space is definitely going to be a major issue.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:53 am
  • The more I read, the more it sounds like Clowney is going to be highly coveted by several teams. I really want him back here, but not at more than $21m per. Maybe the culture of the locker room might entice him to take a bit less?

    Let Reed walk, unless he is down with signing a 1 year, incentive laden prove it deal.


    What I want:

    Restructure-extend Justin Britt
    Resign Luke Willson-George Fant
    IF* Clowney signs elsewhere, sign Yannick Ngakoue & Vic Beasley.
    Sign Guard Brandon Sherff
    Sign CB Chris Harris
    Sign a vet TE. Hunter Henry, Eric Ebron, Austin Hooper etc.
    2_0_6
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:09 am

Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:10 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:The more I read, the more it sounds like Clowney is going to be highly coveted by several teams. I really want him back here, but not at more than $21m per. Maybe the culture of the locker room might entice him to take a bit less?

    Let Reed walk, unless he is down with signing a 1 year, incentive laden prove it deal.


    What I want:

    Restructure-extend Justin Britt
    Resign Luke Willson-George Fant
    IF* Clowney signs elsewhere, sign Yannick Ngakoue & Vic Beasley.
    Sign Guard Brandon Sherff
    Sign CB Chris Harris
    Sign a vet TE. Hunter Henry, Eric Ebron, Austin Hooper etc.


    Yeah, I'm pretty aligned with most of this too, but doing the math, I think that's gonna take more than we got.

    A Britt restructure is logical, especially since Russ seemed pretty bothered by having Hunt in there.

    I want zero part of Luke Willson.

    I do want Fant, but in his exit interviews with reporters, he was saying that teams now know he can play LT in this league. I think he's looking for 7-10 mil APY.

    Love Yannick. He'll be like 18 mil tho. Other names to consider are Judon, Robert Quinn, Bud Dupree, Dante Fowler.

    Sherff is expected to get 13-15 APY.

    Chris Harris probably gets, what, 12 APY, if Coleman got 9?

    We do need a vet TE hedge for Dissly. Ebron was the first name that came up for me.

    I think we can maybe get like 2 of those bigger names mentioned above, but not all 4-5.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am

Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:17 am
  • Right now we're assuming a cap at $200M --- but you're right that could go up especially if the CBA doesn't get done soon.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:26 am
  • Tical21 wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:The more I read, the more it sounds like Clowney is going to be highly coveted by several teams. I really want him back here, but not at more than $21m per. Maybe the culture of the locker room might entice him to take a bit less?

    Let Reed walk, unless he is down with signing a 1 year, incentive laden prove it deal.


    What I want:

    Restructure-extend Justin Britt
    Resign Luke Willson-George Fant
    IF* Clowney signs elsewhere, sign Yannick Ngakoue & Vic Beasley.
    Sign Guard Brandon Sherff
    Sign CB Chris Harris
    Sign a vet TE. Hunter Henry, Eric Ebron, Austin Hooper etc.


    Yeah, I'm pretty aligned with most of this too, but doing the math, I think that's gonna take more than we got.

    A Britt restructure is logical, especially since Russ seemed pretty bothered by having Hunt in there.

    I want zero part of Luke Willson.

    I do want Fant, but in his exit interviews with reporters, he was saying that teams now know he can play LT in this league. I think he's looking for 7-10 mil APY.

    Love Yannick. He'll be like 18 mil tho. Other names to consider are Judon, Robert Quinn, Bud Dupree, Dante Fowler.

    Sherff is expected to get 13-15 APY.

    Chris Harris probably gets, what, 12 APY, if Coleman got 9?

    We do need a vet TE hedge for Dissly. Ebron was the first name that came up for me..


    I think Willson would be a good solid #3 TE that wont cost nearly anything.

    I dont see Harris getting that, especially since he's 31. Coleman is only 26 and in his prime.

    The pass rush has to come from somewhere from someone with tread left on the tires which is going to cost some money. QUinn and Fowler would be ideal backup plans, but we need to get at that QB
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:29 am
  • Everyone keeps bringing up Britt as an expendable cap casualty, but I don't see it that way.

    We saw what the line looked like with Hunt. He played his ass off, and he's a great backup. But he's not an NFL starting center, he's just not. Way too small.

    So if you'd like to not only get the nastiness and size back into the run game, you need Britt..................AND you need the continuity of him being on the line. Sure as hell don't want three new pieces on the line (RT, LG and center).

    But you can certainly ask Britt to restructure coming off an ACL injury. Give him another year with a little more guaranteed money in exchange for less per year for a little cap relief.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:07 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Everyone keeps bringing up Britt as an expendable cap casualty, but I don't see it that way.

    We saw what the line looked like with Hunt. He played his ass off, and he's a great backup. But he's not an NFL starting center, he's just not. Way too small.

    So if you'd like to not only get the nastiness and size back into the run game, you need Britt..................AND you need the continuity of him being on the line. Sure as hell don't want three new pieces on the line (RT, LG and center).

    But you can certainly ask Britt to restructure coming off an ACL injury. Give him another year with a little more guaranteed money in exchange for less per year for a little cap relief.

    I don't think you can pay Britt 12 million. Yeah, I'm thinking add two years and lower his number.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:11 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:The more I read, the more it sounds like Clowney is going to be highly coveted by several teams. I really want him back here, but not at more than $21m per. Maybe the culture of the locker room might entice him to take a bit less?

    Let Reed walk, unless he is down with signing a 1 year, incentive laden prove it deal.


    What I want:

    Restructure-extend Justin Britt
    Resign Luke Willson-George Fant
    IF* Clowney signs elsewhere, sign Yannick Ngakoue & Vic Beasley.
    Sign Guard Brandon Sherff
    Sign CB Chris Harris
    Sign a vet TE. Hunter Henry, Eric Ebron, Austin Hooper etc.


    Yeah, I'm pretty aligned with most of this too, but doing the math, I think that's gonna take more than we got.

    A Britt restructure is logical, especially since Russ seemed pretty bothered by having Hunt in there.

    I want zero part of Luke Willson.

    I do want Fant, but in his exit interviews with reporters, he was saying that teams now know he can play LT in this league. I think he's looking for 7-10 mil APY.

    Love Yannick. He'll be like 18 mil tho. Other names to consider are Judon, Robert Quinn, Bud Dupree, Dante Fowler.

    Sherff is expected to get 13-15 APY.

    Chris Harris probably gets, what, 12 APY, if Coleman got 9?

    We do need a vet TE hedge for Dissly. Ebron was the first name that came up for me..


    I think Willson would be a good solid #3 TE that wont cost nearly anything.

    I dont see Harris getting that, especially since he's 31. Coleman is only 26 and in his prime.

    The pass rush has to come from somewhere from someone with tread left on the tires which is going to cost some money. Quinn and Fowler would be ideal backup plans, but we need to get at that QB

    I think Harris will, he's the best nickel corner unquestionably available. He won't get a 4-5 year deal but he'll be expensive. Fowler is really young still, isn't he? Quinn had 11.5 sacks last year and fits us schematically well. I'd agree you'd prefer a long-term option but only one team is going to get Yannick. I'm in, but I also think we need two.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:17 am
  • I'd LOVE to see them trade for Slay from Detroit. Baller
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:21 am
  • Tical21 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Everyone keeps bringing up Britt as an expendable cap casualty, but I don't see it that way.

    We saw what the line looked like with Hunt. He played his ass off, and he's a great backup. But he's not an NFL starting center, he's just not. Way too small.

    So if you'd like to not only get the nastiness and size back into the run game, you need Britt..................AND you need the continuity of him being on the line. Sure as hell don't want three new pieces on the line (RT, LG and center).

    But you can certainly ask Britt to restructure coming off an ACL injury. Give him another year with a little more guaranteed money in exchange for less per year for a little cap relief.

    I don't think you can pay Britt 12 million. Yeah, I'm thinking add two years and lower his number.


    I agree, and almost all of Britt's guaranteed money is gone, so the Hawks have the leverage to dangle another year or two with some more guaranteed cash in exchange for cap relief.

    Because no one's paying him 12M on the open market if he's cut.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:22 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:The more I read, the more it sounds like Clowney is going to be highly coveted by several teams. I really want him back here, but not at more than $21m per. Maybe the culture of the locker room might entice him to take a bit less?

    Let Reed walk, unless he is down with signing a 1 year, incentive laden prove it deal.


    What I want:

    Restructure-extend Justin Britt
    Resign Luke Willson-George Fant
    IF* Clowney signs elsewhere, sign Yannick Ngakoue & Vic Beasley.
    Sign Guard Brandon Sherff
    Sign CB Chris Harris
    Sign a vet TE. Hunter Henry, Eric Ebron, Austin Hooper etc.


    I like this thought process, although not sure I see the urgency to spend a lot on another TE if Dislley comes back sound, in addition to Hollister and WIllson. Britt is close to being a must have. I would wait until after the draft to get overly excited about much of anything w/ FA other than getting Clowney wrapped up with a deal that is good for both sides. I can easily see having to make some changes in order to stay within cap.

    Re interest from others for Clowney, I think he's going to be picky about any potential landing spot, just as he was with relocating from Houston. $ are one thing, but goals may be another that is equally important. I like our chances to make this happen.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:28 am
  • I think I'd prioritize Byron Jones too.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:31 am
  • Personally, I consider Britt a near must-sign. We should hopefully get some salary relief given his recent injury. Hunt is not as small as some people like to say (IIRC he's 6-0 and 295 or so) but he played like the first year starter he was. He was playing hurt the last few games, so I.m willing to cut him some slack, but I'd prefer a more known quantity at the keystone position on the line.

    On the initial point of the OP, would Clowney really cost $40 mill on this year's cap? It seems to me we could soften that blow considerably with some creative accounting.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 am
  • As much as I love Uncle Will, you cant count on someone with two straight years with early season ending injuries.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:46 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:As much as I love Uncle Will, you cant count on someone with two straight years with early season ending injuries.


    I'm sure signing another mid range veteran TE is in the budget.

    I'd put money on Ed Dickson being the first cut of the off season, so that's 4M of cap to go find another TE. I'd also assume we'd use another mid or late round pick on a TE.

    This offense needs three TE's on the roster.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:13 pm
  • sutz wrote:Personally, I consider Britt a near must-sign. We should hopefully get some salary relief given his recent injury. Hunt is not as small as some people like to say (IIRC he's 6-0 and 295 or so) but he played like the first year starter he was. He was playing hurt the last few games, so I.m willing to cut him some slack, but I'd prefer a more known quantity at the keystone position on the line.

    On the initial point of the OP, would Clowney really cost $40 mill on this year's cap? It seems to me we could soften that blow considerably with some creative accounting.

    I meant Clowney/Reed. Yeah, that's fair, you could probably lower their number a bit this year. 30 maybe?
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:03 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Everyone keeps bringing up Britt as an expendable cap casualty, but I don't see it that way.

    We saw what the line looked like with Hunt. He played his ass off, and he's a great backup. But he's not an NFL starting center, he's just not. Way too small.

    So if you'd like to not only get the nastiness and size back into the run game, you need Britt..................AND you need the continuity of him being on the line. Sure as hell don't want three new pieces on the line (RT, LG and center).

    But you can certainly ask Britt to restructure coming off an ACL injury. Give him another year with a little more guaranteed money in exchange for less per year for a little cap relief.

    Excellent point on the center position. Yeah, I don’t want Hunt starting.
    Unfortunately I think Britt and what you will have to pay him is the best option right now.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:45 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:Do you spend 40 of that on Clowney/Reed?

    We can do some things like cutting Dickson and Britt, and that will save you about an additional what, 15? But does that leave Joey Hunt?

    Our current defensive linemen group coming back consists of: Naz Jones, LJ Collier, Poona Ford, Rasheem Green and Demarcus Christmas.

    I keep hearing around here that we have all this cap space to go shopping. I guess we kind of do, but we have are starting with a totally empty cupboard, and cap space is definitely going to be a major issue.

    I don’t think Reed is retained.

    Seattle didn’t exactly stop the run well and Reed even with missing 6 games, I can’t see Seattle wanting to keep him.

    Seattle will sign Clowney and go after Yannick Ngakoue.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:06 pm
  • The NFL salary cap is expected to increase 8-$13M for 2020

    So after releasing Britt, KJ and Ed Dickson they could have close to $90M in cap room.

    Hopefully they can just get Britt and KJ to take pay cuts.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:13 pm
  • [*]
    massari wrote:The NFL salary cap is expected to increase 8-$13M for 2020

    So after releasing Britt, KJ and Ed Dickson they could have close to $90M in cap room.

    Hopefully they can just get Britt and KJ to take pay cuts.

    Mr. Storian above stated after tenders, we'll be under 50 mil, so an additional 15-25 puts us at most around 75.

    I'd suspect a Britt renegotiation, not sure KJ would go for that, as he could probably get near his number in the open market. As good as he was this year, I'd suspect he's a strong candidate to be cut. Barton is a more natural WILL than SAM, and he probably figures to take KJ's spot in the nickel package either way, as coverage is where he excels.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:15 pm
  • I would really like to see KJ finish his career here. I truly hope he stays.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:25 pm
  • Yeah. He may have been our best defensive player this year. I love him. But when you’re 29th in yards per play, nobody is critical. He’s expensive and has a promising, cheap young player behind him.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:38 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:[*]
    massari wrote:The NFL salary cap is expected to increase 8-$13M for 2020

    So after releasing Britt, KJ and Ed Dickson they could have close to $90M in cap room.

    Hopefully they can just get Britt and KJ to take pay cuts.

    Mr. Storian above stated after tenders, we'll be under 50 mil, so an additional 15-25 puts us at most around 75.

    I'd suspect a Britt renegotiation, not sure KJ would go for that, as he could probably get near his number in the open market. As good as he was this year, I'd suspect he's a strong candidate to be cut. Barton is a more natural WILL than SAM, and he probably figures to take KJ's spot in the nickel package either way, as coverage is where he excels.



    KJ wasn't great this year, allowed the second most RAC in the league only behind Bobby Wagner. Neither LB played up to their contract, but KJ is infinitely more expendable.
    Last edited by HawkStrong on Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 pm
  • Who is willing to fight Bobby Wagner to check the "get rid of KJ" box?
    Not going to happen.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:15 pm
  • KJ also had a lot of splash plays that ultimately got undone by our lack of pass rush on the next down. It was a very up-and-down year for both him and Bobby, but a lot of that was a base defense approach that Pete said he was unable to change in the middle of the season. I wouldn't bet on him leaving right away.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:34 am
  • KJ is done. If you bring him back then you aren't serious about fixing the D. He is slow and cant get off blocks. We are severely lacking in speed on this defense.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:19 am
  • KJ has lost a step, or two, and much as we love what he’s done for the team, the cut may be coming. The hard pill is I think Bobby has lost a step too, but can cover his weakness much more in the middle.

    Luke Wilson’s contribution was negligible this season - granted he was planning to be a Raider at the start - but I think his role could be filled with a rookie who can block. Hollister is there to catch passes as we all wait to see if Dissly can last a full season.

    I have no idea about Clowney. Would love to keep that game-wrecking ability that doesn’t always show up on stat sheets. But not at the expense of cutting off other avenues to strengthen the defense over all. Bah...
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:29 am
  • I think you spend what you need to on Clowney, make a run at 2 FA OL, and draft the hell out of defense.

    e.g. I'd love to see us pay Clowney, Conklin and Scherff, though I imagine all 3 will probably get the highest paid contract at their respective positions this offseason. Might not be possible but spotrac puts us as having 7th most cap space and by far the most attractive proposition of the top 10 so not impossible.

    We've never really gone for the best players at their positions in FA before, opting to take the 2nd wave and get a bit more value for money, but aside from hitting on Bennett and Avril I'm not so sure the approach has paid off. O-line in particular we've struggled with drafting as well as bringing in FA so why not push the boat out.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:35 am
  • Draft a center, and tackle.....cut Britt
    Consider one of these at right price Robert Quinn, Dante Fowler, Vic Beasly
    Sign Sherff
    Sign Chris Jones (instead of Clowney)
    Draft 2 CBs (one slot, one outside) competes with Ugo and Flowers.
    Draft DT, pass rushing DE
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:07 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:KJ also had a lot of splash plays that ultimately got undone by our lack of pass rush on the next down. It was a very up-and-down year for both him and Bobby, but a lot of that was a base defense approach that Pete said he was unable to change in the middle of the season. I wouldn't bet on him leaving right away.

    yeah, i'm mostly in-step with this. KJ had about as good of a year diagnosing screen plays as I can ever remember seeing from a LB. Really, really elite stuff. And it's a good thing because on many of those, we didn't have numbers behind him to stop it from being a big play. His lack of speed showed up at times, but a lot the numbers he gave up are because teams had all day to find underneath and intermediate stuff, and weren't attacking us deep. We barely gave up any deep plays all year. If you're covering deep and don't get pressure, the QB is going to find underneath guys open.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:16 am
  • Tical21 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:KJ also had a lot of splash plays that ultimately got undone by our lack of pass rush on the next down. It was a very up-and-down year for both him and Bobby, but a lot of that was a base defense approach that Pete said he was unable to change in the middle of the season. I wouldn't bet on him leaving right away.

    yeah, i'm mostly in-step with this. KJ had about as good of a year diagnosing screen plays as I can ever remember seeing from a LB. Really, really elite stuff. And it's a good thing because on many of those, we didn't have numbers behind him to stop it from being a big play. His lack of speed showed up at times, but a lot the numbers he gave up are because teams had all day to find underneath and intermediate stuff, and weren't attacking us deep. We barely gave up any deep plays all year. If you're covering deep and don't get pressure, the QB is going to find underneath guys open.


    That's been this defense's bread and butter for years, but they were fast enough to limit YAC when the play went underneath. Doesn't matter if you don't give up the deep ball if routinely give up third down underneath. Neither KJ or Bobby showed that necessary speed, or consistent enough tackling this past season.

    And I don't have the stats in front of me, but they were not good against the screen this year despite one or two splash plays by the LBs.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
  • Zero chance you're getting Yannick. But there are multiple cheaper options that look like good fits. Britt wasn't all that good but we also saw what happened when he went down. Center could also be accomplished via the draft with a couple of talented centers available outside of the first. I do think with Pete only having a couple of years left he may approach this off season with a more short sighted approach wanting to go all in and make one last big push for a ring.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:23 am
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:KJ also had a lot of splash plays that ultimately got undone by our lack of pass rush on the next down. It was a very up-and-down year for both him and Bobby, but a lot of that was a base defense approach that Pete said he was unable to change in the middle of the season. I wouldn't bet on him leaving right away.

    yeah, i'm mostly in-step with this. KJ had about as good of a year diagnosing screen plays as I can ever remember seeing from a LB. Really, really elite stuff. And it's a good thing because on many of those, we didn't have numbers behind him to stop it from being a big play. His lack of speed showed up at times, but a lot the numbers he gave up are because teams had all day to find underneath and intermediate stuff, and weren't attacking us deep. We barely gave up any deep plays all year. If you're covering deep and don't get pressure, the QB is going to find underneath guys open.


    That's been this defense's bread and butter for years, but they were fast enough to limit YAC when the play went underneath. Doesn't matter if you don't give up the deep ball if routinely give up third down underneath. Neither KJ or Bobby showed that necessary speed, or consistent enough tackling this past season.

    And I don't have the stats in front of me, but they were not good against the screen this year despite one or two splash plays by the LBs.

    KJ was extremely good at screen plays his direction. Like, freakishly good. I guess you can choose whether or not to take my word for it, but i agree with everything else you said.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:24 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:Zero chance you're getting Yannick. But there are multiple cheaper options that look like good fits. Britt wasn't all that good but we also saw what happened when he went down. Center could also be accomplished via the draft with a couple of talented centers available outside of the first. I do think with Pete only having a couple of years left he may approach this off season with a more short sighted approach wanting to go all in and make one last big push for a ring.

    I'm sure they're going to push for a ring. Why would there be no chance you're getting Yannick?
    Tical21
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:31 am
  • I think they really wan't to resign Clowney and they're not going to invest another 21 million in the same position. Plus I think Jax can tag him. Clayton said he thinks there is zero chance Seattle gets him and maybe I'm letting his opinion sway mine too much in this, that's possible.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:35 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:I think they really wan't to resign Clowney and they're not going to invest another 21 million in the same position. Plus I think Jax can tag him. Clayton said he thinks there is zero chance Seattle gets him and maybe I'm letting his opinion sway mine too much in this, that's possible.


    Sign Clowney, offer Reed a 10M one year deal and use your first rounder on an edge rusher.

    Not a deep draft for DE, but still some intriguing names slotted towards the bottom of the first/top of the 2nd.

    No one's giving Reed a monster deal, he had a terrible year. So I think we can get him on a 8-10M one year deal for him to hit the market again after balling out.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:37 am
  • I think it's going to be very tough to address the Dline in the draft. There are a couple of names that look solid now but I bet by draft time they're all taken earlier than the internet scouts think they will be. Look what happened last year. I think 12 went before we picked. A guy like Kinlaw looks fantastic at the Senior Bowl but by draft time I doubt he is there in our range. I could be wrong but I think they have to address this in FA or with a trade. But what do I know, I'm a moron so maybe Tical can enlighten us here.

    I think it's going to be easier to find good interior line help in the late 1st/early 2nd and/or WR two positions I think they need to upgrade just as badly.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:44 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:I think it's going to be very tough to address the Dline in the draft. There are a couple of names that look solid now but I bet by draft time they're all taken earlier than the internet scouts think they will be. Look what happened last year. I think 12 went before we picked. I could be wrong but I think they have to address this in FA or with a trade. But what do I know, I'm a moron so maybe Tical can enlighten us here.

    I think it's going to be easier to find good interior line help in the late 1st/early 2nd and/or WR two positions I think they need to upgrade just as badly.


    While I agree, I just don't see any way John goes after two high price DE free agents.

    When have we ever signed a big name first wave FA? Clowney may be deemed different because he has history here now, but I highly doubt if we sign him we're going to invest that much cap in another big name.

    Just not Pete and John's style, they look for bargains in wave two and three with FA's.......or trade.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:46 am
  • I could see a similar approach to what they did early in the initial run with Avril. I really have no idea what they're going to do. They've left themselves some massive holes at multiple spots so it's going to be interesting.
    austinslater25
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:06 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:I think it's going to be very tough to address the Dline in the draft. There are a couple of names that look solid now but I bet by draft time they're all taken earlier than the internet scouts think they will be. Look what happened last year. I think 12 went before we picked. I could be wrong but I think they have to address this in FA or with a trade. But what do I know, I'm a moron so maybe Tical can enlighten us here.

    I think it's going to be easier to find good interior line help in the late 1st/early 2nd and/or WR two positions I think they need to upgrade just as badly.


    While I agree, I just don't see any way John goes after two high price DE free agents.

    When have we ever signed a big name first wave FA? Clowney may be deemed different because he has history here now, but I highly doubt if we sign him we're going to invest that much cap in another big name.

    Just not Pete and John's style, they look for bargains in wave two and three with FA's.......or trade.

    Sidney, Miller and Gallery were pretty coveted at the time. We really couldn't sign FA's for a long time because we either were in cap trouble or knew we had to take care of our guys first. I think it was more of a cap issue than a philosophy.

    There are always a couple good pass rushing specialist types in the 2nd and 3rd round, but they're risky because there are more misses than hits there. Winovich and Ximines would have helped, but they're not starters.
    Tical21
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:34 pm
  • If clowney walks we'll get pick 97 likely the highest comp pick . Couldn’t we just trade a 4th for a pass rushers? If it’s someone in the 10 mill range you could stay competitive, limit risk(clowney injuries) and save money that u could use elsewhere.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:01 pm
  • austinslater25 wrote:Zero chance you're getting Yannick. But there are multiple cheaper options that look like good fits. Britt wasn't all that good but we also saw what happened when he went down. Center could also be accomplished via the draft with a couple of talented centers available outside of the first. I do think with Pete only having a couple of years left he may approach this off season with a more short sighted approach wanting to go all in and make one last big push for a ring.

    Zero chance we're getting Chris Jones either.
    Best chances beyond Clowney are with Fowler, Quinn and Beasley.
    Agree about C in the draft. From what I've read it's fairly deep. Might get the guy from UW in round 2 if not Ruiz in round 1.
    hawksfansinceday1
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:52 pm
  • @Tical
    Where are you getting $40M against the cap in year 1 from???

    1st year cap numbers come in way under their APY.

    Frank Clark signed that fat contract in KC right? The 3rd highest paid (APY) edge guy in the NFL.

    What was his cap hit in 2019? $6.5M.

    Khalil Mack the highest paid man at the position, $23.5M APY.

    His cap hits in:
    2018: $13.8M
    2019: $11.9M

    This happens because they get nearly all of their year 1 money in a signing bonus, and then it is prorated over the course of the contract, up to 5 years.

    So please explain to me how Clowney and Reed combined are going to count $40M against the cap in 2020 for any team, when Clark & Mack accounted for $18.4M combined in 2019? Less than half the number you're proposing.


    That 59 number is also going to go up after they, cut Britt, Dickson, and Wright. Or they all agree to massive pay cuts. Either way they will not be playing at their current number as they are all massive overpays in 2020.

    So Seattle will push that number to $70M, or close to it at the very least.

    In fact if you cut those players and sign Clowney to a massive deal, plus fill out the roster. You're right back to $59M in space. Clowney is a better value than those 3 combined going forward.

    Clowney > Britt + Dickson + Wright

    Just as an example:
    Clowney in year 1 if he signs with Seattle (since they stupidly do shorter contracts, which pushes up the APY in year 1 because they only have 4 years to spread the bonus, instead of 5.)

    So let's say the Seahawks are willing to pay Clowney $25M APY over 4 years with a $25M signing bonus. Making him the highest paid edge rusher in the NFL.

    This is a ballpark example of how his cap hit would look in 2020 (25M signing bonus divided by 4 + Low base salary of $5M.) That would be $30M in new money in year 1.

    Cap Hit in year 1 of a 4yr deal
    2020: $11.25M (nearly double Clark's but still very manageable)

    Seattle's shorter contract structure for superstars is dumb though, because if you could sign Clowney to a 6 year deal and spread the money out even more it would look like this. ($25M signing bonus divided by 5 + 1 extra year to tack on with a high cap number and lower the middle years out. SOP in the NFL.)
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:10 pm
  • Fade wrote:@Tical
    Where are you getting $40M against the cap in year 1 from???

    1st year cap numbers come in way under their APY.

    Frank Clark signed that fat contract in KC right? The 3rd highest paid (APY) edge guy in the NFL.

    What was his cap hit in 2019? $6.5M.

    Khalil Mack the highest paid man at the position, $23.5M APY.

    His cap hits in:
    2018: $13.8M
    2019: $11.9M

    This happens because they get nearly all of their year 1 money in a signing bonus, and then it is prorated over the course of the contract, up to 5 years.

    So please explain to me how Clowney and Reed combined are going to count $40M against the cap in 2020 for any team, when Clark & Mack accounted for $18.4M combined in 2019? Less than half the number you're proposing.


    That 59 number is also going to go up after they, cut Britt, Dickson, and Wright. Or they all agree to massive pay cuts. Either way they will not be playing at their current number as they are all massive overpays in 2020.

    So Seattle will push that number to $70M, or close to it at the very least.

    In fact if you cut those players and sign Clowney to a massive deal, plus fill out the roster. You're right back to $59M in space. Clowney is a better value than those 3 combined going forward.

    Clowney > Britt + Dickson + Wright

    Just as an example:
    Clowney in year 1 if he signs with Seattle (since they stupidly do shorter contracts, which pushes up the APY in year 1 because they only have 4 years to spread the bonus, instead of 5.)

    So let's say the Seahawks are willing to pay Clowney $25M APY over 4 years with a $25M signing bonus. Making him the highest paid edge rusher in the NFL.

    This is a ballpark example of how his cap hit would look in 2020 (25M signing bonus divided by 4 + Low base salary of $5M.) That would be $30M in new money in year 1.

    Cap Hit in year 1 of a 4yr deal
    2020: $11.25M (nearly double Clark's but still very manageable)

    Seattle's shorter contract structure for superstars is dumb though, because if you could sign Clowney to a 6 year deal and spread the money out even more it would look like this. ($25M signing bonus divided by 5 + 1 extra year to tack on with a high cap number and lower the middle years out. SOP in the NFL.)


    LOL Tical smacked down with real facts love it.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:19 pm
  • We can sign Clowney long term at about 20 m per and the cap hit could be close to 10 or 12 next year if we want it to.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:22 am
  • Fade wrote:@Tical
    Where are you getting $40M against the cap in year 1 from???

    1st year cap numbers come in way under their APY.

    Frank Clark signed that fat contract in KC right? The 3rd highest paid (APY) edge guy in the NFL.

    What was his cap hit in 2019? $6.5M.

    Khalil Mack the highest paid man at the position, $23.5M APY.

    His cap hits in:
    2018: $13.8M
    2019: $11.9M

    This happens because they get nearly all of their year 1 money in a signing bonus, and then it is prorated over the course of the contract, up to 5 years.

    So please explain to me how Clowney and Reed combined are going to count $40M against the cap in 2020 for any team, when Clark & Mack accounted for $18.4M combined in 2019? Less than half the number you're proposing.


    That 59 number is also going to go up after they, cut Britt, Dickson, and Wright. Or they all agree to massive pay cuts. Either way they will not be playing at their current number as they are all massive overpays in 2020.

    So Seattle will push that number to $70M, or close to it at the very least.

    In fact if you cut those players and sign Clowney to a massive deal, plus fill out the roster. You're right back to $59M in space. Clowney is a better value than those 3 combined going forward.

    Clowney > Britt + Dickson + Wright

    Just as an example:
    Clowney in year 1 if he signs with Seattle (since they stupidly do shorter contracts, which pushes up the APY in year 1 because they only have 4 years to spread the bonus, instead of 5.)

    So let's say the Seahawks are willing to pay Clowney $25M APY over 4 years with a $25M signing bonus. Making him the highest paid edge rusher in the NFL.

    This is a ballpark example of how his cap hit would look in 2020 (25M signing bonus divided by 4 + Low base salary of $5M.) That would be $30M in new money in year 1.

    Cap Hit in year 1 of a 4yr deal
    2020: $11.25M (nearly double Clark's but still very manageable)

    Seattle's shorter contract structure for superstars is dumb though, because if you could sign Clowney to a 6 year deal and spread the money out even more it would look like this. ($25M signing bonus divided by 5 + 1 extra year to tack on with a high cap number and lower the middle years out. SOP in the NFL.)

    I'm no cap expert but I'm learning more about it..However you like to leave out what the numbers
    are after the first 2 years:of an example Clowney contract and RW's current contract.
    So please do put out all the imformation on the remaining years not just the first two that
    give a false sense of "It's all good"..
    Update:I decided to post the cap hits for RW as that is what matters..spotrac.com
    2019-$26,286,668.00
    2020-$31,000,000.00
    2021-$32,000,000.00
    2022-$37,000,000.00
    2023-$39,000,000.00
    2024-UFA
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:25 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:We can sign Clowney long term at about 20 m per and the cap hit could be close to 10 or 12 next year if we want it to.

    It'll take more than 20 per. Fade might be a bit high at 25 per but he's not far off imo.
    hawksfansinceday1
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:00 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:We can sign Clowney long term at about 20 m per and the cap hit could be close to 10 or 12 next year if we want it to.

    It'll take more than 20 per. Fade might be a bit high at 25 per but he's not far off imo.


    Agreed and as much talent as Clowney has, he does not deserve that much money. He is a disruptor and opens up opportunities for others, but with JJ Watt taking double teams, Clowney should have been more productive. There is a next gen stat about pass rush win rate, and supposedly Clowney was the third best in 2018, but his numbers were fairly low, and most of his career he has not been that impressive:

    Year..........TFL Rank....QB Hits Rank......Sacks Rank
    2016................8.....................38......................48
    2017................2.....................19......................19
    2018..............10.....................16......................25
    2019..............96.....................61....................125

    Paying him the biggest contract for his position makes no sense at all. Sure, he is only turning 28 and should be in his prime, but he can not be relied upon to get to the QB.
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