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We're sitting at about 59 million

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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:15 pm
  • I could be swayed on not signing Clowney but the alternatives aren't looking
    that great..How much would a Ford cost?It shouldn't be this hard.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:36 pm
  • Would love to sign Clowney to a $18-20 deal with some NLBTE incentives. Long shot, I know, but that would balance out the cap/productivity equation a bit.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:34 pm
  • We have plenty of cap room to do what we want this offseason. With TE Dickson and possibly Britt cap casualties our cap gets even larger. Personally, I would rather just redo Britt's contract to something more manageable. He will do it as being cut makes his future more unsure with other teams. He is better off working a lower deal with us.

    We can easily do backloaded FA deals with larger bonuses and guaranteed money to get who we need. We are in good shape.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:42 pm
  • The so called experts are listing Indy and Arizona heavy players in the F.A. market, we will wait, those two franchises are going to sign guys to ludicrous contracts, we are not getting the house hold name guys I am pretty sure unless a deal comes along like Clowney later on.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:18 am
  • The more I read about it us having $59M is a big IF. But there is talk the league will raise the cap. That would help. Even so I'm not convinced it will be enough to get done everything we need to do the way we want it done. That means we'll have to make some hay in the draft with rookie contracts. Problem there is our picks are down in the order unless Schneider can pull some more pick trade magic.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:44 am
  • Appyhawk wrote:The more I read about it us having $59M is a big IF. But there is talk the league will raise the cap. That would help. Even so I'm not convinced it will be enough to get done everything we need to do the way we want it done. That means we'll have to make some hay in the draft with rookie contracts. Problem there is our picks are down in the order unless Schneider can pull some more pick trade magic.


    Absolutely.

    The draft is where you have to hit on players. No team is successful trying to build a roster through free agency, it's just too expensive and most high priced FA's rarely live up to their contract.

    I think last year's draft was a good start adding key pieces, mainly Metcalf, Blair, Barton and Ugo. Now we have to continue to build, especially on the defense.

    Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:21 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

    Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:22 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

    Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.


    I read that PC/JS wanted to take Montez Sweat, he then came off, so they went with the best available thinking that since he was an older draftee that maybe he could help in Year One.

    No one thought we'd be getting a Bosa in our first rounder...but I bet if you line up the players at that position from that year and adjust for number of games, he ranks near the bottom with three tackles.

    Calling it now. This guy's a Solomon Thomas that we're stuck with for dead cap, but probably won't contribute any more than ST did.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:25 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

    Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.


    I can't include Collier when no one knew he was ever on the field.

    Halfway through the season when everyone and their grandma knew that Ansah wasn't working out, I would have rather just stuck Collier in the game to at least give him experience for the long term.

    Instead we have a 1st round pick that got hurt, missed too much camp and never recovered to do a damn thing all year.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:28 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

    Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.


    I can't include Collier when no one knew he was ever on the field.

    Halfway through the season when everyone and their grandma knew that Ansah wasn't working out, I would have rather just stuck Collier in the game to at least give him experience for the long term.

    Instead we have a 1st round pick that got hurt, missed too much camp and never recovered to do a damn thing all year.


    Collier came back 9/15 Week 2. He was active in 11 regular season games. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... #all_stats

    Everyone's saying he just needs more camp. At this point, Collier has the experience that camp tries to prepare guys for. And regardless how he does in preseason, he still will make the roster given his dead cap hit. Same as last year.

    They have to make the best of it. Maybe they put him on ST to gain more experience while serving as a No. 3 defensively.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:13 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

    Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.


    I read that PC/JS wanted to take Montez Sweat, he then came off, so they went with the best available thinking that since he was an older draftee that maybe he could help in Year One.

    No one thought we'd be getting a Bosa in our first rounder...but I bet if you line up the players at that position from that year and adjust for number of games, he ranks near the bottom with three tackles.

    Calling it now. This guy's a Solomon Thomas that we're stuck with for dead cap, but probably won't contribute any more than ST did.

    Sadly I suspect the Solomon Thomas comp is likely.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:00 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

    Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.


    I can't include Collier when no one knew he was ever on the field.

    Halfway through the season when everyone and their grandma knew that Ansah wasn't working out, I would have rather just stuck Collier in the game to at least give him experience for the long term.

    Instead we have a 1st round pick that got hurt, missed too much camp and never recovered to do a damn thing all year.


    Collier came back 9/15 Week 2. He was active in 11 regular season games. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... #all_stats

    Everyone's saying he just needs more camp. At this point, Collier has the experience that camp tries to prepare guys for. And regardless how he does in preseason, he still will make the roster given his dead cap hit. Same as last year.

    They have to make the best of it. Maybe they put him on ST to gain more experience while serving as a No. 3 defensively.


    Not everyone, right from Pete's mouth when asked why Collier wasn't performing well or a healthy scratch.

    He said the same thing about Blair, missed too much camp, etc.

    Of course he's being protective and diplomatic.....when in reality we know what's up. Collier just wasn't good enough even months after his injury recovery to get on the field with one of the most athletically deficient lines in the league desperate for someone to make plays.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:48 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Of course he's being protective and diplomatic.....when in reality we know what's up. Collier just wasn't good enough even months after his injury recovery to get on the field with one of the most athletically deficient lines in the league desperate for someone to make plays.


    Agree fully. And it's not just him.

    It's that a lot of our guys, especially on D, end up being just "depth" guys with excuses for it. Oh, but they can play special teams. Oh, but they can help in sub packages with help from others. The issue is, they signed them all with the expectation they'd be starters on the D they want, and it shouldn't take three years to figure out that they don't fit scheme.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:06 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Of course he's being protective and diplomatic.....when in reality we know what's up. Collier just wasn't good enough even months after his injury recovery to get on the field with one of the most athletically deficient lines in the league desperate for someone to make plays.


    Agree fully. And it's not just him.

    It's that a lot of our guys, especially on D, end up being just "depth" guys with excuses for it. Oh, but they can play special teams. Oh, but they can help in sub packages with help from others. The issue is, they signed them all with the expectation they'd be starters on the D they want, and it shouldn't take three years to figure out that they don't fit scheme.


    This just isn't true, and PC/JS have stated as much. Not every draft pick or FA is brought into be a starter.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:45 am
  • HawkStrong wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Of course he's being protective and diplomatic.....when in reality we know what's up. Collier just wasn't good enough even months after his injury recovery to get on the field with one of the most athletically deficient lines in the league desperate for someone to make plays.


    Agree fully. And it's not just him.

    It's that a lot of our guys, especially on D, end up being just "depth" guys with excuses for it. Oh, but they can play special teams. Oh, but they can help in sub packages with help from others. The issue is, they signed them all with the expectation they'd be starters on the D they want, and it shouldn't take three years to figure out that they don't fit scheme.


    This just isn't true, and PC/JS have stated as much. Not every draft pick or FA is brought into be a starter.


    What?

    Collier wasn't a 5th round pick for depth, he was a 1st rounder................so if you draft a DE in the first round? He better damn well be a 70-80% snaps a game playmaker. If not, that's a failure.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:03 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Collier wasn't a 5th round pick for depth, he was a 1st rounder................so if you draft a DE in the first round? He better damn well be a 70-80% snaps a game playmaker. If not, that's a failure.


    Again, agree. Collier was paid over $9M in guaranteed because he signed here because the assumption was that he could help in Year One. The signing bonus all but guarantees that he's on the roster whatever his performance is, and I hope he succeeds, but realistically he could remain at a performance that'd get UDFAs/lower rounds bounced.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:14 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Collier wasn't a 5th round pick for depth, he was a 1st rounder................so if you draft a DE in the first round? He better damn well be a 70-80% snaps a game playmaker. If not, that's a failure.


    Again, agree. Collier was paid over $9M in guaranteed because he signed here because the assumption was that he could help in Year One. The signing bonus all but guarantees that he's on the roster whatever his performance is, and I hope he succeeds, but realistically he could remain at a performance that'd get UDFAs/lower rounds bounced.


    Disagree, not at DE. DE's, like RB's, DT's and LB's can make an immediate impact because they don't have as much to learn as positions like WR, QB, DB, etc.

    So you can make all the excuses you want for Collier, and I will give him a little leeway for missing a lot of camp which set his development and fitness back.

    But no excuses for him for the last 1/3rd of the season and the playoffs, he should have been coming on and making some plays. He was a healthy inactive for the GB playoff game.

    That's as damning as it gets.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:44 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Collier wasn't a 5th round pick for depth, he was a 1st rounder................so if you draft a DE in the first round? He better damn well be a 70-80% snaps a game playmaker. If not, that's a failure.


    Again, agree. Collier was paid over $9M in guaranteed because he signed here because the assumption was that he could help in Year One. The signing bonus all but guarantees that he's on the roster whatever his performance is, and I hope he succeeds, but realistically he could remain at a performance that'd get UDFAs/lower rounds bounced.


    Disagree, not at DE. DE's, like RB's, DT's and LB's can make an immediate impact because they don't have as much to learn as positions like WR, QB, DB, etc.

    So you can make all the excuses you want for Collier, and I will give him a little leeway for missing a lot of camp which set his development and fitness back.

    But no excuses for him for the last 1/3rd of the season and the playoffs, he should have been coming on and making some plays. He was a healthy inactive for the GB playoff game.

    That's as damning as it gets.


    Learning technique during camp is a big deal. In the NFL you are going up against guys who are taught how to negate your physical talents and you need technique to make an impact. My biggest concern with Collier is he should have been learning technique during the time he was inactive and it seems that he did not. That speaks to a lack of commitment to his craft, which I would say is more than damning. Hopefully, he gets a clue this offseason and steps it up.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:58 am
  • Hey BASF. Thought I was the only one on the board here so it's nice to have company.

    Anyway, the way PC/JS appear to be committed to is picking mid-rounders, UDFAs, FAs on rentals and hoping it works out. It has for them before, but that depends on them relentlessly churning the roster.

    You can't do that with first rounders; they cost so much in dead cap that it's cheaper to keep 'em even while paying them twice as much (as will happen with Collier).
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:09 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Hey BASF. Thought I was the only one on the board here so it's nice to have company.


    I actually left San Jose last year, so you may be the only one at this point, but I have used this name way too long to change it.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:35 am
  • There's actually a fair number of Hawks fans around. We don't have the "Seattle Faithful" presence that the 9ers apparently do, but we have our bars after all.

    That said, the Hawks' philosophy of roster churn is a thing. They bring in a bunch of mid rounders or lower or UDFAs and see how they stick. The thing is, they then make exceptions like Shaquem. People don't like that I bring up Shaquem, but fact is he's a fifth rounder going into his third year with one-half sack to show for it.

    If they want to run this roster this way (which has had success) there can't be exceptions for this or that, because what I'm seeing throughout most of the D is exceptions and qualified statements, like give this guy another year; that'll be his breakout one. Or we knew BBK was too small but hey plays ST.

    And so three years later, well here we are.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:54 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:There's actually a fair number of Hawks fans around. We don't have the "Seattle Faithful" presence that the 9ers apparently do, but we have our bars after all.

    That said, the Hawks' philosophy of roster churn is a thing. They bring in a bunch of mid rounders or lower or UDFAs and see how they stick. The thing is, they then make exceptions like Shaquem. People don't like that I bring up Shaquem, but fact is he's a fifth rounder going into his third year with one-half sack to show for it.

    If they want to run this roster this way (which has had success) there can't be exceptions for this or that, because what I'm seeing throughout most of the D is exceptions and qualified statements, like give this guy another year; that'll be his breakout one. Or we knew BBK was too small but hey plays ST.

    And so three years later, well here we are.


    Still hating on Shequem for three years running ? They are just figuring out how to use him, he has been a special team ace, I would have used him more as a SS but that's me.

    You can't blame the player when the Coaches are not able to use a certain player to his strengths, that and he has had some pretty good players in front of him.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:57 am
  • BASF wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Collier wasn't a 5th round pick for depth, he was a 1st rounder................so if you draft a DE in the first round? He better damn well be a 70-80% snaps a game playmaker. If not, that's a failure.


    Again, agree. Collier was paid over $9M in guaranteed because he signed here because the assumption was that he could help in Year One. The signing bonus all but guarantees that he's on the roster whatever his performance is, and I hope he succeeds, but realistically he could remain at a performance that'd get UDFAs/lower rounds bounced.


    Disagree, not at DE. DE's, like RB's, DT's and LB's can make an immediate impact because they don't have as much to learn as positions like WR, QB, DB, etc.

    So you can make all the excuses you want for Collier, and I will give him a little leeway for missing a lot of camp which set his development and fitness back.

    But no excuses for him for the last 1/3rd of the season and the playoffs, he should have been coming on and making some plays. He was a healthy inactive for the GB playoff game.

    That's as damning as it gets.


    Learning technique during camp is a big deal. In the NFL you are going up against guys who are taught how to negate your physical talents and you need technique to make an impact. My biggest concern with Collier is he should have been learning technique during the time he was inactive and it seems that he did not. That speaks to a lack of commitment to his craft, which I would say is more than damning. Hopefully, he gets a clue this offseason and steps it up.


    I will certainly give Collier another camp and preseason to prove to us that he's worthy of being a #1 pick...........which I understand wasn't his fault.

    But he was a typical head scratcher that most draft scouts had going in the late 2nd or even 3rd round, and this year proved they were probably right.

    But we'll see.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:03 pm
  • Chris: "They are just figuring out how to use him, he has been a special team ace, I would have used him more as a SS but that's me.

    You can't blame the player when the Coaches are not able to use a certain player to his strengths, that and he has had some pretty good players in front of him."

    Checking the YES box. With Kendricks questionable for next year the might have an easier time finding plays for him. They know he can play. The question becomes can he play enough to make keeping him an equitable arrangement? I would like to see him stick and be used as safety depth in addition to the other stuff. Speed is never a bad thing.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:03 pm
  • We're all giving Collier a chance, not because of ability he's shown, but because we're sunk for dead cap with him.

    The overall problem is that we're just stuck with depth pieces versus those we really need.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:49 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    HawkStrong wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Of course he's being protective and diplomatic.....when in reality we know what's up. Collier just wasn't good enough even months after his injury recovery to get on the field with one of the most athletically deficient lines in the league desperate for someone to make plays.


    Agree fully. And it's not just him.

    It's that a lot of our guys, especially on D, end up being just "depth" guys with excuses for it. Oh, but they can play special teams. Oh, but they can help in sub packages with help from others. The issue is, they signed them all with the expectation they'd be starters on the D they want, and it shouldn't take three years to figure out that they don't fit scheme.


    This just isn't true, and PC/JS have stated as much. Not every draft pick or FA is brought into be a starter.


    What?

    Collier wasn't a 5th round pick for depth, he was a 1st rounder................so if you draft a DE in the first round? He better damn well be a 70-80% snaps a game playmaker. If not, that's a failure.



    It's from PC/JS's mouth. They don't look at draft picks like that.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:39 pm
  • HawkStrong wrote:It's from PC/JS's mouth. They don't look at draft picks like that.


    Then maybe PC/JS need to evaluate that. We've needed a stronger d-line for what, five years now? And all I keep hearing are stories about how this guy or that guy is gonna be next year's star, just more camp, or hurt, just more camp, or whatever.

    We need people who can actually start. Without help. And in PC's scheme and with our draft position, that means at minimum basically picking brawlers of size, not trying to make them fit in with schemes that they don't, and when they don't, plugging them with yet more rentals or UDFA/FA throwaways.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:42 pm
  • This draft is NOT for any DL....There's maybe 2 worth mentioning. This draft has a TON of very good WR's and OL's and guess what we need?

    Yup....We need OL in spite of what anyone says. Draft one of these great Centers and at least one Guard, it would be so foolish not to.

    DL will be free agents.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:58 pm
  • I agree we need OL. But I'd say it's even harder to get them under this philosophy.

    (Please JC just trade down the first rounder.)

    OLs are notoriously hard to pick, however.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:17 pm
  • No, they aren't hard to pick. It's where you pick them. We were lucky that we sucked enough to draft Walter Jones and he was a generational talent.

    Left Tackles are a Godsend and like buying a winning lottery ticket.

    This draft has a LOT of good Centers and Guards which just happens to be the need of this team and it just so happens we have a first and 2 seconds and a 3rd.

    It's time for this team to draft OL for the future. PERIOD.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:34 pm
  • I like that guy from Kentucky, Logan Sterberg (sp). The Seahawks draft blog is very high on him but other sources like the following think he's a liability. https://www.sportsmediapass.com/2019/12 ... -stenberg/

    However, he plays guard. Our immediate need is center. Are quality options available?
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:35 pm
  • Pete typically Red Shirts his draft picks in one form or another, Metcalf and Wilson being outliers, look at our history, Thomas and Okung were higher round picks on a team with bottom of the barrel talent and the churn was tremendous, we had Sherman, and Kam red shirted then. Milloy coaching up Kam and Sherm learning more how to play CB when he came in until a injury happened.

    The O line was musical chairs as was the QB carousel other then Hass, but they were bringing in everyone that had played in the last ten years for a look to see who was back up and the future, Clip Board Jesus won.
    chris98251
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:57 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Pete typically Red Shirts his draft picks in one form or another, Metcalf and Wilson being outliers, look at our history, Thomas and Okung were higher round picks on a team with bottom of the barrel talent and the churn was tremendous, we had Sherman, and Kam red shirted then. Milloy coaching up Kam and Sherm learning more how to play CB when he came in until a injury happened.

    The O line was musical chairs as was the QB carousel other then Hass, but they were bringing in everyone that had played in the last ten years for a look to see who was back up and the future, Clip Board Jesus won.

    Sherman wasn’t redshirted. He started most of his rookie season because Thurmond and Trufant got hurt.

    I think redshirting guys is a recent phenomenon for guys who truly aren’t ready. Because KJ, Bobby, Sherman, Earl, Doug, Ifedi, Carp, Irvin, Reed, Griffin, etc... all started in their rookie season.

    I think the shift has more do to with the state of college football than Pete Carroll. The NFL is basically where college football was 10 years ago, and a lot of college football is barely ahead high school from a technique stand point. Most of these kids need two or 3 years to figure things out now.
    knownone
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:07 pm
  • Chris, you're right in that it's not just a question of draft. It's a question of FA too.

    It's clear PC/JS's scheme (and NFLs) is based on certain physical features: Baby Marshawn as your RB, ET as your SS, etc. So clearly, having a center who's often 30 pounds lighter than his mauler is gonna provide a permanent disadvantage however much he schools it in technique. Same with the DL. It's built for guys who can run fast AND maul people. Not OR. So why not focus on the guys that can do both?
    SantaClaraHawk
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:07 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Pete typically Red Shirts his draft picks in one form or another, Metcalf and Wilson being outliers, look at our history, Thomas and Okung were higher round picks on a team with bottom of the barrel talent and the churn was tremendous, we had Sherman, and Kam red shirted then. Milloy coaching up Kam and Sherm learning more how to play CB when he came in until a injury happened.

    The O line was musical chairs as was the QB carousel other then Hass, but they were bringing in everyone that had played in the last ten years for a look to see who was back up and the future, Clip Board Jesus won.


    If by "red shirt" you mean make damn sure if he's putting a rookie in the game, they're prepared and ready to take on their role, and not make rookie mistakes. Then yes.

    But if you mean not play them on purpose just because they're rookies. Then no.

    My problem is the why part of the rookie's not playing equation. Why wasn't Collier playing? Why didn't Blair take over at safety once he was fully healthy?

    Those are your 1st and 2nd round picks, if they're not starting by mid-season and contributing on a weak defense? That's not a redshirt thing, that's a red FLAG thing.

    See what I did there.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:06 pm
  • Ready is the Key, Metcalf is playing because he worked his ass off in the classroom and off season to get familiar with Russell and how to be a Pro.

    Remember this year we also had a rash of injuries to our draft class out of the gate and some were still in recovery from college injuries, my take is Pete and John knew they would be on the IR and then depth if needed all season. I expect some break out next season from some of them that we will be surprised by in some instances.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:35 pm
  • There seems to be some optimism that we have near $60m to spend and will be able to fill quite a few needs. I have a different opinion on that. Say we spend $20M average on Clowney or someone comparable and are left with $40M. We have 22 FA spots to fill in total. That leaves 40M and 21 spots or 1.9M average pay per spot to fill. How much "upgrading" do people think we can do filling holes at $1.9M average per player??
    Now look at the condition the defense is in, and Dline and Oline holes there likely will be, along with questions at DB, RB, TE ect, and I think they really need to nail the draft or we have too many needs and not enough $$ to move up and improve over 2019.
    Draft is the critical Key in 2020 or we step back IMO.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:49 pm
  • Appyhawk wrote:Chris: "They are just figuring out how to use him, he has been a special team ace, I would have used him more as a SS but that's me.

    You can't blame the player when the Coaches are not able to use a certain player to his strengths, that and he has had some pretty good players in front of him."

    Checking the YES box. With Kendricks questionable for next year the might have an easier time finding plays for him. They know he can play. The question becomes can he play take keeping him an equitable arrangement? I would like to see him stick and be used as safety depth in addition to the other stuff. Speed is never a bad thing.


    Chris and Appy:

    Shaquem's main strength is speed. He was No. 2 behind Kendricks this whole year at his spot, but Barton filled in there while Shaquem worked as the edge on the front. Ansah STILL outperformed Shaquem overall for the season even when adjusted for GP. Now the talk is all about trying to find someone better than Ansah, but Shaquem is very rarely brought up.

    I wouldn't put Shaquem in a SS position considering his strength is speed and not size. He'd be worse at it than in his present position. I understand he tried to bulk up for some months but that just took his one advantage away. Point is, this is another player who doesn't fit fundamental scheme so people are just saying it's ok because he can play subpackages or ST or whatever.

    If we want starters and are picking/FAing as we are in the lower rounds, then let's just pick them to begin with. Not make excuses for their physicality or traits that were on view when we picked them.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:08 pm
  • Seymour wrote:There seems to be some optimism that we have near $60m to spend and will be able to fill quite a few needs. I have a different opinion on that. Say we spend $20M average on Clowney or someone comparable and are left with $40M. We have 22 FA spots to fill in total. That leaves 40M and 21 spots or 1.9M average pay per spot to fill. How much "upgrading" do people think we can do filling holes at $1.9M average per player??
    Now look at the condition the defense is in, and Dline and Oline holes there likely will be, along with questions at DB, RB, TE ect, and I think they really need to nail the draft or we have too many needs and not enough $$ to move up and improve over 2019.
    Draft is the critical Key in 2020 or we step back IMO.


    You also have to factor in anywhere from 10-20M of cap relief if we cut guys like Britt, Ed Dickson, and don't resign Iupati and/or Fluker, and the 2020 cap is set to be around 200M, 12M more than last year.

    Of course the draft is key, it's always the key. No team should be filling it's needs through FA, that's very poor roster building.

    FA is for signing 2-3 key pieces and depth...........and anywhere from 55-75M is plenty of cap space to do so.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:47 am
  • @ Seymour

    Do yourself a favor and look up all of the highest paid edge rushers in the NFL and see what their cap hits were in year 1 of their new deals.

    Clowney is not going to count $20M+ against the cap in year 1. He will come in somewhere between $10-12M. Also it will be offset by cutting/paycuts of overpaid veterans anyway. Cutting Britt & Dickson would cover Clowney's year 1 cap hit, and the team wouldn't lose any cap space for all intents and purposes.

    Seattle has $58M in effective cap space, which accounts for filling out the roster. The real key to this off-season is don't sign any Ziggy's, Joeckel's, or Eddy Lacey's. Seattle has had a habit in years past of overpaying for garbage and flushing cap space down the toilet. Getting zero, or straight up net negative returns on their FA investments.

    If they can avoid the potholes and navigate free agency properly this off-season, they can get themselves a nice DE or 2 to pair with Clowney. Add a vet O-Lineman + one other nice piece, preferably at TE, which will set them up for a championship run in 2020 and beyond, with plenty of cap space to spare.
    Fade
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:03 am
  • I agree on the 1st year cap charge point for DE contracts but our cap number has been chewed down a bit by performance escalators (Carson, Griffin ,and Thompson) and OTC.com says it's now $50,775,222 which is significant and enough to get some deals done. There may be other hits to the cap with likely to be earned bonuses, and RFA tenders reducing the effective available cap number to closer to less than $45 million before cap cuts and potential trades, but compared to last year this is cap flexibility.
    jammerhawk
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:32 pm
  • Fade wrote:@ Seymour

    Seattle has $58M in effective cap space, which accounts for filling out the roster. The real key to this off-season is don't sign any Ziggy's, Joeckel's, or Eddy Lacey's. Seattle has had a habit in years past of overpaying for garbage and flushing cap space down the toilet. Getting zero, or straight up net negative returns on their FA investments.


    OK then, so the question is what caliber of talent you're gonna get.

    I take it as a given we sign Clowney for market. Either we do that and sign a spendy DE (Fowler, Yannick etc.) or more likely PC/JS will go for a value FA like Ansah. One of the most prominent in this group is Solomon Thomas--kinda the Niners Ziggy at this point. He';l probably get snaps in today's game, and even he could be out of range.
    SantaClaraHawk
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:20 pm
  • I think you're closer to right than not, SantaClara. Also don't think our pick order is good enough to get in on quality available at DE in the draft, so FA market is where we'll have to cover that hole, along with CB. I DO think we can get in on some quality interior O Linemen this draft, starting with a good center and/or guard candidate.
    My idea is backup for Britt and replacement for Iupati. Also would like to see a young RT project.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:16 pm
  • For CB, we gotta be in the position to trade w/Detroit for Slay.
    SantaClaraHawk
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:50 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:For CB, we gotta be in the position to trade w/Detroit for Slay.

    Seems like after they load up on DL and sign a OL or two, if they still have some cap room to make a significant addition, they might have to choose between a TE like Hooper or a CB like Slay. There's a lot of slot corners available too.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:39 pm
  • I said this in another thread.
    Sign Clowney
    Sign Arik Armstead
    Sign Beasley
    Cut Willson, sign Olsen
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:36 am
  • Largent80 wrote:This draft is NOT for any DL....There's maybe 2 worth mentioning. This draft has a TON of very good WR's and OL's and guess what we need?

    Yup....We need OL in spite of what anyone says. Draft one of these great Centers and at least one Guard, it would be so foolish not to.

    DL will be free agents.

    I have to agree with you on this one L80. Especially if we plan on keeping Russ upright.
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:23 pm
  • Okay, I really like to speak in numbers:

    We will have pay-cuts, resignings, released savings and those numbers conclude in FA cap space 2020:

    Pay-cut savings:

    Britt: 11,66 million --> 6,5 million
    K.J.: 10 million --> 8 million

    ==> 7,16 million savings!

    Resignings:

    Clowney: (4 years 84 million) --> 13 million (cap hit in 2020)
    Reed: (1 year proof it deal) --> 10,5 million
    Jefferson: (3 years 18 million) --> 4,5 million (cap hit in 2020)
    Fant: (4 years 38 million) --> 6,5 million (cap hit in 2020)
    Kendricks: --> 3,8 million
    Iupati: --> 2,5 million
    Woods, Gordon, Hunt, Moore, Hollister, Turner, Geno Smith and Luke Wilson: -->11,3 million

    ==> 52,2 million in resignings!

    Released players:
    Dickson: --> 3,25 million
    TT: --> 2,14 million (hopefully)
    Belore: --> 1,00 million
    Hill: --> 0,75 million (hopefully the 2nd)

    ==> 7,14vmillion in released savings!

    Finally we do have the following amount to spend in FA:

    59,00 million (actual cap space)
    + 7,16 million (cap hit savings)
    -52,20 million (Resignings)
    + 7,14 million (Released savings)

    =21,1 million (real cap space)

    Finally we can spend 21,1 million + cap space hit in 2020 in FA2020.

    If I would be GM I would like to sign the following FA:

    1. Sign 2nd Edge Rusher: Ngakoue (5 years 84 million) --> 10 million (cap hit in 2020)
    2. Sign a veteran RT: Conklin (4 years 42 million) --> 7,5 million (cap hit in 2020)
    3. Sign a rotational player for DL: Vinny Curry --> 2,5 million
    4. Sign a TE: Greg Olson --> 3-5 million

    ==> 23-25 million for FA should be possible with cap increase in 2020.

    I know, maybe not all numbers a perfect but I think this is a good board to understand better what we have to do before FA to see what real cap space is a vailable in 2020.

    Feel free to give some notes if this kind of scenario would be possible?
    :2thumbs:
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Re: We're sitting at about 59 million
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:09 pm
  • Bruv, love the work but you need money for about a dozen more players to fil the roster, at least ten million for draft picks and 5-10 for injury replacements.
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