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Russell on throwing more....

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Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:50 pm

Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:10 pm
  • It's hard to take anything away from his comments without the context of the conversation.

    I don't think there is any secret to what Russell is trying to do. Just listen to the somewhat ludicrous statements Jake Heaps has made over the past few days. This is a PR move by Russ and his camp to push Pete and John to give him more help / let him play a style that is more stat heavy.
    knownone
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:19 pm
  • knownone wrote:It's hard to take anything away from his comments without the context of the conversation.

    I don't think there is any secret to what Russell is trying to do. Just listen to the somewhat ludicrous statements Jake Heaps has made over the past few days. This is a PR move by Russ and his camp to push Pete and John to give him more help / let him play a style that is more stat heavy.


    I would argue it is not about more stat heavy but about getting beyond the 2nd round of the play-offs, and about not having to win in the end and instead play a full 4 qtrs with the pedal to the metal.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:25 pm
  • Whatever results in more playoff wins....
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:32 pm
  • Whatever. Draft OL and the rest will follow.
    Largent80
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:51 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:It's hard to take anything away from his comments without the context of the conversation.

    I don't think there is any secret to what Russell is trying to do. Just listen to the somewhat ludicrous statements Jake Heaps has made over the past few days. This is a PR move by Russ and his camp to push Pete and John to give him more help / let him play a style that is more stat heavy.


    I would argue it is not about more stat heavy but about getting beyond the 2nd round of the play-offs, and about not having to win in the end and instead play a full 4 qtrs with the pedal to the metal.

    That's kind of subjective. We don't know if throwing more will help them go further in the playoffs. We do know throwing more will increase his stats.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:28 pm
  • I'm usually a cynical kind of guy. Although I could concede that perhaps Wilson has a self centered desire to build stats, I don't really think it matters (or in this case is wrong at all).

    Wilson is the very best player on this team. There are multiple ways to win games. None of them wrong. Wilson happens to afford us an extremely powerful and efficient option if we ever decide to go all in that way.

    I strongly believe in being able to tailor your team's blueprint for winning around the frame of the talent on the team. In this case, Wilson is at the top of the NFL heap in terms of accuracy, ability to diagnose/read defenses and exploiting matchups.

    And I think the proof of that, is just how explosive and effective our offense becomes, once Seattle fully relies on Wilson to save the team from itself time and again. Seattle would be ideally served to largely abandon their philosophy and structure in order to maximize the benefit of having a truly elite level QB.

    Seattle needs really two things in order to make that conversion.

    One, a good/reliable TE. We have a good one. We also have a pretty decent depth one. This draft has several really great options for a Y end who could complement Dissly and provide extra insurance for injury. We don't have to get a Hooper or a Henry in UFA.

    Two, we need a chain mover at WR. I can't imagine what this passing attack would have looked like if we had both Dissly and Baldwin to go with Metcalf and Lockett. This offense needs another player that can reliably convert medium depth routes. Players not unlike Deebo Samuel or Emmanuel Sanders for SF. Players who can quickly win 1 on 1 coverage. There are a whole host of receivers in this class that have the Baldwin profile. And could be had with one of the R2 picks we currently have.

    We've been harping and praying for ages for OL to protect Wilson. But there are two ways to reduce sacks. Either get 5 guys to protect better. Or get one guy who can get open faster. Wilson processes defenses so quickly, the easiest way to reduce the sacks taken IMO, is to get better receivers who get open faster. When Wilson is on time, he's absolutely surgical.

    Seattle would like to run the ball and be balanced. But it feels like a truly Sisyphean task to keep adding multiple day one and two picks into this function, when we account for the blessing of talent at the QB position. It is my opinion that to continue to pursue this phantasmic goal of 'run to win', is to intentionally retard the opportunity we have that is real. The ability to leverage our best player to his fullest. To in essence throw to open the run.

    Seattle has most of the talent it needs to emulate the 2014 Patriots offense. Get our version of an Edelman and allow Russ to spray the ball around the field. Use motion, tempo and play action to dictate matchups, force teams to adjust quickly and increase the opportunities for coverage mistakes. Russell is great at finding those.

    It tickles the imagination to think of the possibilities this offense could have if they invested more earnestly at receiving skill positions and gave him full reign. They could actually do that in it's entirety this draft.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:57 pm
  • I've always loved the quick pass/ball control game. BUT, there is nothing that opens up the passing game like an effective running game. We've seen that time after time...once our running game makes some headway vs the defense all of a sudden our passing game hits stride and takes off bigtime. Neither is as good without the other.
    Appyhawk
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:51 pm
  • How many teams win building exclusively around their QB? Seriously? The best statistical stretch of Drew Brees career was 2011-2017. They put everything on his shoulders and managed to make the playoffs 2 times in 6 years. Those two playoff appearance were years they had top a 15 defense/running game. In the last 3 seasons, the Saints have followed the Seahawks blueprint: top 10 rushing attack, top 15 defense, and they've made the playoffs all 3 years while Brees's passing attempts/game are career lows since winning the Superbowl in '09.

    I heard Heaps talking about how Seattle has let Wilson down, and comparing him to Brady and how the Patriots built around Brady in '07-'18... Really? How? because they drafted a TE in the mid-second round (Gronk), traded for an un-drafted receiver (Welker), traded a 4th for a malcontent WR (Moss), and drafted a 7th round QB to play WR (Edelman)? Brady has had a better O-line, sure, but the Patriots haven't exactly been throwing money at the O-line all of these years.

    Since '07, the Pats have had a top 10 defense in all but one season, and in that season they were ranked 15th. They had a top 10 rushing attack in 6 seasons, and top 15 in 9 of 12 seasons. On top of that, they have only one Superbowl ('15) without a top 10 rushing attack.

    Pretty much everything shows that building a strong defense and running game is more beneficial to winning than going all in on a passing offense. I obviously think Seattle needs to do more to help Russ with the offensive line and give him more opportunities in the passing game. But 15-20 more TDs a season??? Yeah... Sorry Russ, but the only guy whose done that in recent memory is Mahomes and he costs 30M/Year less against the cap. It's doable, but the only QB in NFL history to throw 40+ TDs in a season and win a Superbowl is Kurt Warner, 20 years ago.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:50 pm
  • knownone wrote:How many teams win building exclusively around their QB? Seriously? The best statistical stretch of Drew Brees career was 2011-2017. They put everything on his shoulders and managed to make the playoffs 2 times in 6 years. Those two playoff appearance were years they had top a 15 defense/running game. In the last 3 seasons, the Saints have followed the Seahawks blueprint: top 10 rushing attack, top 15 defense, and they've made the playoffs all 3 years while Brees's passing attempts/game are career lows since winning the Superbowl in '09.

    I heard Heaps talking about how Seattle has let Wilson down, and comparing him to Brady and how the Patriots built around Brady in '07-'18... Really? How? because they drafted a TE in the mid-second round (Gronk), traded for an un-drafted receiver (Welker), traded a 4th for a malcontent WR (Moss), and drafted a 7th round QB to play WR (Edelman)? Brady has had a better O-line, sure, but the Patriots haven't exactly been throwing money at the O-line all of these years.

    Since '07, the Pats have had a top 10 defense in all but one season, and in that season they were ranked 15th. They had a top 10 rushing attack in 6 seasons, and top 15 in 9 of 12 seasons. On top of that, they have only one Superbowl ('15) without a top 10 rushing attack.

    Pretty much everything shows that building a strong defense and running game is more beneficial to winning than going all in on a passing offense. I obviously think Seattle needs to do more to help Russ with the offensive line and give him more opportunities in the passing game. But 15-20 more TDs a season??? Yeah... Sorry Russ, but the only guy whose done that in recent memory is Mahomes and he costs 30M/Year less against the cap. It's doable, but the only QB in NFL history to throw 40+ TDs in a season and win a Superbowl is Kurt Warner, 20 years ago.



    Your presuming that if we go to a quick passing game that means we will not run, that is untrue. For some reason people seem to think it is an either or when ti is not, we can run ad quick passing attack and still run. In fact our first drive in the last game against AZ was that style, and we threw 4 times and ran 4 times, we scored and moved the ball at will, then back to SOSO(same old, same old) and stalled drives.. The idea behind the quick passing attack is changing the tempo this helps both the run and the pass as the defense cant get set and don't know what's coming.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:52 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:It's hard to take anything away from his comments without the context of the conversation.

    I don't think there is any secret to what Russell is trying to do. Just listen to the somewhat ludicrous statements Jake Heaps has made over the past few days. This is a PR move by Russ and his camp to push Pete and John to give him more help / let him play a style that is more stat heavy.


    I would argue it is not about more stat heavy but about getting beyond the 2nd round of the play-offs, and about not having to win in the end and instead play a full 4 qtrs with the pedal to the metal.

    That's kind of subjective. We don't know if throwing more will help them go further in the playoffs. We do know throwing more will increase his stats.


    Perhaps but you are assuming they only reason to do it is stats which you have do evidence to say that is why he wants to do it. Given its Wilson the odds are much more that he feels we can win more throwing then he wants his stats.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:15 pm
  • My opinion is that Russ cares more about one stat than any other and that is WINNING. I believe he has now advanced to the point he knows exactly what is happening on the field and has the skill required to run the series by making his own calls while on LOS in a hurry up tempo that restricts defensive ability for adjustments and substitutions. Coaching and play call suggestion can be accomplished when clock stops or he gets back on the sidelines.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:59 am
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:I'm usually a cynical kind of guy. Although I could concede that perhaps Wilson has a self centered desire to build stats, I don't really think it matters (or in this case is wrong at all).

    Wilson is the very best player on this team. There are multiple ways to win games. None of them wrong. Wilson happens to afford us an extremely powerful and efficient option if we ever decide to go all in that way.

    I strongly believe in being able to tailor your team's blueprint for winning around the frame of the talent on the team. In this case, Wilson is at the top of the NFL heap in terms of accuracy, ability to diagnose/read defenses and exploiting matchups.

    And I think the proof of that, is just how explosive and effective our offense becomes, once Seattle fully relies on Wilson to save the team from itself time and again. Seattle would be ideally served to largely abandon their philosophy and structure in order to maximize the benefit of having a truly elite level QB.

    Seattle needs really two things in order to make that conversion.

    One, a good/reliable TE. We have a good one. We also have a pretty decent depth one. This draft has several really great options for a Y end who could complement Dissly and provide extra insurance for injury. We don't have to get a Hooper or a Henry in UFA.

    Two, we need a chain mover at WR. I can't imagine what this passing attack would have looked like if we had both Dissly and Baldwin to go with Metcalf and Lockett. This offense needs another player that can reliably convert medium depth routes. Players not unlike Deebo Samuel or Emmanuel Sanders for SF. Players who can quickly win 1 on 1 coverage. There are a whole host of receivers in this class that have the Baldwin profile. And could be had with one of the R2 picks we currently have.

    We've been harping and praying for ages for OL to protect Wilson. But there are two ways to reduce sacks. Either get 5 guys to protect better. Or get one guy who can get open faster. Wilson processes defenses so quickly, the easiest way to reduce the sacks taken IMO, is to get better receivers who get open faster. When Wilson is on time, he's absolutely surgical.

    Seattle would like to run the ball and be balanced. But it feels like a truly Sisyphean task to keep adding multiple day one and two picks into this function, when we account for the blessing of talent at the QB position. It is my opinion that to continue to pursue this phantasmic goal of 'run to win', is to intentionally retard the opportunity we have that is real. The ability to leverage our best player to his fullest. To in essence throw to open the run.

    Seattle has most of the talent it needs to emulate the 2014 Patriots offense. Get our version of an Edelman and allow Russ to spray the ball around the field. Use motion, tempo and play action to dictate matchups, force teams to adjust quickly and increase the opportunities for coverage mistakes. Russell is great at finding those.

    It tickles the imagination to think of the possibilities this offense could have if they invested more earnestly at receiving skill positions and gave him full reign. They could actually do that in it's entirety this draft.

    Great post and there's another thread here that supports what you said about TE and how much more efficient the offense was when Dissley was healthy. They'll go after a TE fairly early (Bryant UW?). I wonder if Ursua can blossom into that possession WR role as many of us hope?
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:25 am
  • Of course he's going to say that what QB in the league isn't going to say that.

    Offesne isn't the problem it's the defense and until we right that ship it doesn't matter what the offense does. I will add that great defense and running the ball go hand and hand.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:39 am
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Great post and there's another thread here that supports what you said about TE and how much more efficient the offense was when Dissley was healthy. They'll go after a TE fairly early (Bryant UW?). I wonder if Ursua can blossom into that possession WR role as many of us hope?


    I wonder about Ursua too. Not counting him out necessarily for a year 2 bump. Seems ideally suited for that purpose.

    Honestly, I don't think it has so much to do with TE, so much as it does having a player that can be a reliable target in the seam/short routes. Those are the blitz beating type routes. You can do that with a quality slot receiver or at quality TE. And you can especially do so, if you have both. We could easily get both in this draft, even without using our first round pick to do it.

    Having a player who can run the 4-7 yard routes and be an effective safety valve is huge. That's a central component to how first downs are attained and sacks are avoided.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:22 pm
  • Appyhawk wrote:My opinion is that Russ cares more about one stat than any other and that is WINNING. I believe he has now advanced to the point he knows exactly what is happening on the field and has the skill required to run the series by making his own calls while on LOS in a hurry up tempo that restricts defensive ability for adjustments and substitutions. Coaching and play call suggestion can be accomplished when clock stops or he gets back on the sidelines.



    BINGO!!!
    John63
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:25 pm
  • Wilson doesn't need more pass plays . He needs a better offensive scheme suited to him . Wilson needs more help across the board offense & D. He as stated as much recently . I don't think Wilson is thrilled with his situation . Do you ?
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:07 pm
  • xray wrote:Wilson doesn't need more pass plays . He needs a better offensive scheme suited to him . Wilson needs more help across the board offense & D. He as stated as much recently . I don't think Wilson is thrilled with his situation . Do you ?


    No and I agree with the scheme, as I have said it is not just about pass attempts as some like to say, it is about timing, tempo and specifically design.
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Re: Russell on throwing more....
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:47 pm
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Great post and there's another thread here that supports what you said about TE and how much more efficient the offense was when Dissley was healthy. They'll go after a TE fairly early (Bryant UW?). I wonder if Ursua can blossom into that possession WR role as many of us hope?


    I wonder about Ursua too. Not counting him out necessarily for a year 2 bump. Seems ideally suited for that purpose.

    Honestly, I don't think it has so much to do with TE, so much as it does having a player that can be a reliable target in the seam/short routes. Those are the blitz beating type routes. You can do that with a quality slot receiver or at quality TE. And you can especially do so, if you have both. We could easily get both in this draft, even without using our first round pick to do it.

    Having a player who can run the 4-7 yard routes and be an effective safety valve is huge. That's a central component to how first downs are attained and sacks are avoided.

    Good point.
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