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LJ Collier and Marquise Blair

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LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:00 pm
  • Man, I’m still upset Seattle drafted these guys.

    No contributions at all.

    PC cannot continue drafting lames like these two in early rounds.

    Pathetic.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:09 pm
  • I wouldn't write off Blair so quickly. I think there's still a lot of potential there. He was hurt, was just starting to get in the games and then Diggs came along. He'll have a hard time cracking the starting lineup next year too, but I'll only be disappointed if they don't find a way for him to get on the field a good bit. If he can be a strong third safety and then move into McDougald's spot the following year, I'll be happy.

    Collier on the other hand . . .
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:15 pm
  • Pete loves to tout how he plays Rookies and they come into their own by the end of the year, but he was so weird about certain players this year. Really hope Collier is not a bust considering he got virtually no play-time this year, could he really be that awful in practice?
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:15 pm
  • Both players were rookies that had early injuries and one of them started three games while also being a contributor on ST. Not quite ready to pull the Bust card out on these two.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:01 pm
  • I see a lot of Big12 football and I was shocked by the Collier pick last year. Thought there were better options even just in that conference, let alone the whole frikken country. But I'd love to see him prove me wrong.
    IMO any time your #1 pick is a virtual no show, that's a bust.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:13 pm
  • Blair had made some splash plays and looks much better than Tedric or Lano have ever looked. As for Collier, I'm going to guess he just needs to train harder and earn his spot.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:21 pm
  • Blair looked dynamic yet raw. With experience I think he could be quite good but there's going to be some ups and downs with him yet. Collier we simply haven't seen anything as yet so I can't call either of them a bust, far from it but very much incomplete grades as yet
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:25 pm
  • How did Rasheem Green do his first year with us when he had a full off-season to come up-to-speed? Also almost invisible. This past year? Not too bad.

    I'd be patient with Collier. Not because he's a sure thing, but because he's not likely a sure-bust.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:55 pm
  • The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    Either Blair is going to replace McDougald at some point or he’s never going to see the field.

    I can’t see Diggs leaving. The guy is a baller.

    McDougald is also a playmaker and I see no roles for Blair as long as Bradley and Quandre are on the team.

    Collier, they can find a role for him but the Blair pick really sucks right now cause he’s not gonna see the field when they could have drafted a different contributor.

    Smh.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:17 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:McDougald is also a playmaker and I see no roles for Blair as long as Bradley and Quandre are on the team.

    Collier, they can find a role for him but the Blair pick really sucks right now cause he’s not gonna see the field when they could have drafted a different contributor.

    Smh.


    I can't fault the Blair pick. We didn't have Diggs at the time. We were fortunate to get Diggs at a really ridiculous price. In that case, I feel like it doesn't so much as suck because Blair's not going to see the field -- but instead AWESOME that we got Diggs.

    I look at it this way: We spent a 2nd round and next year's 5th round picks on safeties. We got Diggs and Blair out of that draft capital spend. That's pretty good. Blair has time to develop, and in the short term he's probably going to be a good backup/depth guy. Especially if he improves in his second season.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:20 pm
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:McDougald is also a playmaker and I see no roles for Blair as long as Bradley and Quandre are on the team.

    Collier, they can find a role for him but the Blair pick really sucks right now cause he’s not gonna see the field when they could have drafted a different contributor.

    Smh.


    I can't fault the Blair pick. We didn't have Diggs at the time. We were fortunate to get Diggs at a really ridiculous price. In that case, I feel like it doesn't so much as suck because Blair's not going to see the field -- but instead AWESOME that we got Diggs.

    I look at it this way: We spent a 2nd round and next year's 5th round picks on safeties. We got Diggs and Blair out of that draft capital spend. That's pretty good. Blair has time to develop, and in the short term he's probably going to be a good backup/depth guy. Especially if he improves in his second season.


    Yep, having a high quality third safety is nothing to sneeze at. There's always injuries that could get him on the field or simply putting him in for certain packages to get him on the field with the other two or to give one of the other two a rest.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:16 pm
  • Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:24 pm
  • Blair I have some faith in as he looked okay when he played. The fact Collier didnt even play is a bad sign. Could be yet another bust at that position.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:30 pm
  • knownone wrote:Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.

    I personally believe the Collier pick was because of the failed McDowell pick.

    The Seahawks hope Collier can be the next Michael Bennett.

    But watching Collier at TCU, he doesn’t possess quick twitch hands and his rush speed just isn’t up to par with Bennett.

    And you can’t go from not fast in college to fast in the NFL.

    Even with the limited film this year on Collier, it’s hard to see Collier blazing into QBs next year.

    His speed is not there.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:22 pm
  • HawkGA wrote:I wouldn't write off Blair so quickly. I think there's still a lot of potential there. He was hurt, was just starting to get in the games and then Diggs came along. He'll have a hard time cracking the starting lineup next year too, but I'll only be disappointed if they don't find a way for him to get on the field a good bit. If he can be a strong third safety and then move into McDougald's spot the following year, I'll be happy.

    Collier on the other hand . . .

    Agree with all of this.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:42 pm
  • knownone wrote:Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.


    If Montez Sweat was the preferred choice they should have just taken him at 21, and forgot all the trade down crap they do every year. What is so wrong with grabbing a guy to replace Clark on a rookie contract. They still had pick 30 to do the trade down stuff. I really liked what I saw in Sweat the few times I saw him in college. He had 7 sacks his rookie year on a crap team. What number would he have had with Clowney on the other side? Who knows.

    This is also not the first time. They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT. Instead they went for a head case in McDowell. Our drafts have underwhelmed for the last 4-5 years. That is why we are in this predicament.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:52 pm
  • Let's wait until season #3 before writing these players off.

    Both players had injury issues early and both players were effectively redshirted. I'd hope we see some more of both early, and that green takes another forward step at DE.

    To me if you wanted to name two mnames that have disappointed me they'd be Tedric Thompson and Lano Hill, I'm ready to let both walk.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:10 pm
  • Tedric Thompson is a bit of a puzzle to me. He was advertised as a much needed play maker. But, perhaps he simply got on a roll with gambling and guessing during his college career. :229031_shrug: 2020 certainly ended badly for him. And, I would think he finished his year with a confidence problem.

    I'm waiting on Collier and Blair to step up in year two. We'll see :biggthumpup:
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:25 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    Either Blair is going to replace McDougald at some point or he’s never going to see the field.

    I can’t see Diggs leaving. The guy is a baller.

    McDougald is also a playmaker and I see no roles for Blair as long as Bradley and Quandre are on the team.

    Collier, they can find a role for him but the Blair pick really sucks right now cause he’s not gonna see the field when they could have drafted a different contributor.

    Smh.


    Blair replacing McDougald is a very likely scenario and doesn't leave a whole lot of room for discouragement.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:00 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    In your world does April come after October? Because otherwise we got Blair *before* Diggs, not after.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:20 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    In your world does April come after October? Because otherwise we got Blair *before* Diggs, not after.

    No, why go after Diggs if you have Blair??

    It’s cause Blair isn’t ready to play or is not the player they thought he would be.

    What I’m saying is, we could have gotten an immediate contributor.

    If you wanted Diggs anyways and we’re gonna trade for a safety, you shouldn’t have drafted Blair, at least not so early.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:28 pm
  • kf3339 wrote:
    knownone wrote:Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.


    If Montez Sweat was the preferred choice they should have just taken him at 21, and forgot all the trade down crap they do every year. What is so wrong with grabbing a guy to replace Clark on a rookie contract. They still had pick 30 to do the trade down stuff. I really liked what I saw in Sweat the few times I saw him in college. He had 7 sacks his rookie year on a crap team. What number would he have had with Clowney on the other side? Who knows.

    This is also not the first time. They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT. Instead they went for a head case in McDowell. Our drafts have underwhelmed for the last 4-5 years. That is why we are in this predicament.

    Exactly.

    TJ Watt and Ramzyck could have been the pick.

    Smh.

    Watt is a pretty safe pick too.

    Comes from a good football family.

    Productive in college.

    High character.

    Talented.

    But, went after a head case.

    Anyone that didn’t believe this guy was a head case, go watch his interviews, just on that alone was telling me this guy should not have been the pick.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:58 pm
  • I always try not to expect anything from rookies. I hope they get playing time and develop into a player but its a crapshoot,you never know just how bad they want to succeed or how their football intelligence will translate to the pros.

    I do know you dont get to the SB without good depth. Hopefully they will make a difference playing a part as backups or special teams even if they dont become what we hope for. Its still to early to call them busts.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:08 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    In your world does April come after October? Because otherwise we got Blair *before* Diggs, not after.

    No, why go after Diggs if you have Blair??

    It’s cause Blair isn’t ready to play or is not the player they thought he would be.

    What I’m saying is, we could have gotten an immediate contributor.

    If you wanted Diggs anyways and we’re gonna trade for a safety, you shouldn’t have drafted Blair, at least not so early.

    Because rookies rarely come out of the box ready to start in the NFL. If they do, fantastic, but it's not the norm. In Diggs, the Seahawks saw the opportunity to get an impact player they wanted for little risk. Diggs can play all the DB positions.

    The other reason why? John Schneider *never* stops building.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:34 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    knownone wrote:Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.


    If Montez Sweat was the preferred choice they should have just taken him at 21, and forgot all the trade down crap they do every year. What is so wrong with grabbing a guy to replace Clark on a rookie contract. They still had pick 30 to do the trade down stuff. I really liked what I saw in Sweat the few times I saw him in college. He had 7 sacks his rookie year on a crap team. What number would he have had with Clowney on the other side? Who knows.

    This is also not the first time. They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT. Instead they went for a head case in McDowell. Our drafts have underwhelmed for the last 4-5 years. That is why we are in this predicament.

    Exactly.

    TJ Watt and Ramzyck could have been the pick.

    Smh.

    Watt is a pretty safe pick too.

    Comes from a good football family.

    Productive in college.

    High character.

    Talented.

    But, went after a head case.

    Anyone that didn’t believe this guy was a head case, go watch his interviews, just on that alone was telling me this guy should not have been the pick.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:09 pm
  • In a way this is true. The Hawks are the only team I know who take 1/2 round guys without the intention to start.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:14 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    In your world does April come after October? Because otherwise we got Blair *before* Diggs, not after.

    No, why go after Diggs if you have Blair??

    It’s cause Blair isn’t ready to play or is not the player they thought he would be.

    What I’m saying is, we could have gotten an immediate contributor.

    If you wanted Diggs anyways and we’re gonna trade for a safety, you shouldn’t have drafted Blair, at least not so early.

    Because rookies rarely come out of the box ready to start in the NFL. If they do, fantastic, but it's not the norm. In Diggs, the Seahawks saw the opportunity to get an impact player they wanted for little risk. Diggs can play all the DB positions.

    The other reason why? John Schneider *never* stops building.


    You're lumping all "rookies" together, especially 1st-rounders and many early 2nd-rounders, ARE expected to start.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:19 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs.

    Either Blair is going to replace McDougald at some point or he’s never going to see the field.

    I can’t see Diggs leaving. The guy is a baller.

    McDougald is also a playmaker and I see no roles for Blair as long as Bradley and Quandre are on the team.

    Collier, they can find a role for him but the Blair pick really sucks right now cause he’s not gonna see the field when they could have drafted a different contributor.

    Smh.


    Blair, was drafted before the team acquired Diggs mid-season. Diggs was initially acquired to be a NCB but he was to Pete more valuable to the team as FS after Thompson got hurt. The limited time that Blair saw the field he played creditably well, but he made mental mistakes so he was held out.

    However, he either was still hurt, not practicing well, or making the same mistakes; so true to past form if you can't compete in practice you don't play. I think a healthy preseason will deliver the team a solid young safety which will be an improvement over the Thompson/Hill duo.

    The same could apply to Collier but there is more mystery. It's tough to accept the FO was so very wrong on this pick. I'm not willing to say they were wrong yet but he seemed to never be in the rotation or never played better than the others when he was a dominant player in the Senior Bowl practices and game which was inconsistent with what we saw from him all season. Something wasn't right we just don't know what the deal was with him. Ultimately we need to be patient, his position is a hard position to make the transition from college to pro, and usually takes a few seasons to learn. He is a big strong kid and should be fine if his heart is into being great. Actually seeing him play some downs might be interesting.

    In each case where a rookie wasn't played this season there were likely reasons know to the coaches which had more to do with the players being injured, not practicing well, or being beaten out by those who made the game active rosters. The team and the coaches would always want to play the best guys. The lessons of sitting would sting any player drafted early and who wanted to compete, i believe both do so I think we'll see happier results from them next season.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:55 pm
  • I know it is hard for people to hear but even in 2020 you have to give a rookie three full season before you can decide if they are a bust, a dude, or a star.

    Calling a player a bust after 8 games is some ESPN Hot-Take BS.

    WE DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE PLAYERS!!!.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:32 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs..


    Blair was drafted well before they traded for Diggs.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:08 am
  • KinesProf wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs..


    Blair was drafted well before they traded for Diggs.

    Yes, I know that.

    What I’m saying is, why did you draft Blair, if you’re not going to play him or develop him.

    It seems like PC always wanted a suitable replacement for Earl, hence, Diggs, but if that was the case, he should have used the pick for Blair for another player.

    Really, right now, Collier and Blair are real expensive backups.

    Because of what you have given up (other players) that could have been playing this year helping the team.

    I get that it’s too soon to tell but damn it’s frustrating not getting any value from your first and second round picks for how long now???

    These picks are crucial especially towards the end of the season if you’re gonna make a run, and yes they matter, a lot!
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:01 am
  • Blair was another player injured before he could even get started and then injured again during the season. He needs a healthy offseason and to get more of a NFL body for how he plays, this goes back to the Redshirt guy and learning curve, we will a lot more about what he brings I think next year, but he has a couple guys in front of him now that will make it harder to break thru in Diggs, McDougald, Hill and Thompson. Will have to see how that shakes out in the off season.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:47 am
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    KinesProf wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:The Blair pick was very discouraging to see, especially after they traded for Quandre Diggs..


    Blair was drafted well before they traded for Diggs.

    Yes, I know that.

    What I’m saying is, why did you draft Blair, if you’re not going to play him or develop him.

    It seems like PC always wanted a suitable replacement for Earl, hence, Diggs, but if that was the case, he should have used the pick for Blair for another player.

    Really, right now, Collier and Blair are real expensive backups.

    Because of what you have given up (other players) that could have been playing this year helping the team.

    I get that it’s too soon to tell but damn it’s frustrating not getting any value from your first and second round picks for how long now???

    These picks are crucial especially towards the end of the season if you’re gonna make a run, and yes they matter, a lot!


    I don't know how you can jump to the conclusion that they aren't developing Blair. They tried playing him and maybe during that time they realized he wasn't ready yet, but they still thought they could make a run if they had improved defensive play. Hence the trade for Diggs.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:43 am
  • Count me as one who is usually upset by our trading away top picks instead of using them however we would have been better off trading these and finding away to retain Frank Clark instead.
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:34 am
  • The Collier pick is really frustrating. You were near the bottom of the league in sacks, your defensive line was bad outside of Clowney and he was still a healthy scratch late in the year at times. As an older first round pick, he should have been able to contribute and couldn't. People keep mentioning Greene but he was a 3rd rounder (I think) and was almost 3 years younger and wasn't a first rounder. Watching the post draft interview they looked shell shocked that 12 Dlinemen went ahead of them and they panicked with the Collier pick. Maybe he ends up being decent, I seriously hope he proves all of us wrong. Still doubt he returns first round capitol though.
    austinslater25
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:26 am
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:I personally believe the Collier pick was because of the failed McDowell pick.


    Maybe. I think it's more likely a direct result of 'need based' drafting.

    DE was a need. In 2017. In 2019 (result of failed McDowell pick in 2017, the 1 year rental of Richardson -- 2018 2nd, and the unsteady development of Rasheem Green 2018) In fact, Seattle whiffed with a ton of DL capital leading up to Collier.

    But I think it's more need based related, because we whiffed multiple other years at different positions of need as well. Penny (R1, 2018), McDowell, Pocic (R2, R2 2017) - Ifedi (R1 2016). Basically the last 4 years our worst picks were always our first ones and all because we opted to shoehorn our options based on need. Leaving multiple pro bowl caliber talents on the board -- many of whom played at positions that became holes in the roster in a year or two.

    sdog1981 wrote:I know it is hard for people to hear but even in 2020 you have to give a rookie three full season before you can decide if they are a bust, a dude, or a star.

    Calling a player a bust after 8 games is some ESPN Hot-Take BS.

    WE DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE PLAYERS!!!.


    I know we'd like to think this is true. I've seen this posited on this board many times. Undoubtedly because Seattle has cornered the market on R1/R2 non contributors for the league. It's understandable that we'd want to deny inconvenient truths that stare us in the face. But this idea is almost patently and totally wrong on the whole. I'm in the middle of a short study of players picked in R1/2 over the last 5 years who didn't start as many as a third of their games as a rookie. I'm updating to look at snap thresholds for rotational guys which is a bit tougher to find, but more accurate. Preliminary findings are that virtually every bust is apparent early and it's exceedingly rare for a player to become a reliable starter 3 years later. With very few exceptions, busts stay busted. And they almost all bust early.

    Current values I have: If you can start 1/3 of your rookie games, you have better than 95% chance to be a 100% starter in years 2 and 3. If you don't, you're sitting around 8%. I expect that to rise as I factor in rotational value. But I'd be shocked if it even gets up to 20%.

    * Note, I'm not exactly sure how to handle the McDowell case. He's not the only instance of a player who doesn't have any active games played at all. Is he a bust if he never played a down? Trying to massage the numbers due to injuries can be difficult. The math kind of breaks down when you divide by zero.
    Attyla the Hawk
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:59 am
  • Glad fans aren't Gm's. We would cut players after year 1 now days.
    Shanegotyou11
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:08 am
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:Glad fans aren't Gm's. We would cut players after year 1 now days.


    You certainly don't cut high round picks during their rookie contract............but you also better pause for concern when your first and second round picks aren't starters by the end of their rookie years, especially playing literally the two most glaring needs of ours on defense, safety and D-line.

    It's not like these two got drafted in 2013 having to play behind that D-line and the LOB.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:45 am
  • " They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT."

    That one hurts!
    Gawd, hindsight is a rude mutha. What a difference those two would have made for us, entirely changing the situation we're in right now.
    Appyhawk
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:27 am
  • Blair likely takes a step forward this offseason, he has all the physical traits to be a starter but from Pete's remarks was out of position too often. It didn't seem that way in game from a fan perspective, certainly in preseason he gave up a couple big plays. It was probably recurring during practice which I know Pete takes very serious.

    Collier I have no idea about. He couldn't get snaps with the worst pressuring DL in front of him but DL typically takes a season or 2 to understand at this level. Top 5 picks obviously play and learn on the fly, LJ isn't that. It is troubling they didn't feel it was worth getting him out there late in the season. I think he will need to have a terrific offseason to feel better about the pick.

    I hope they take best player available this year with their haul of draft picks and not guys who may take a year or two in the system to get up to speed. Skipping Ramczyk and Watt hurts as they both likely are pushing for starting jobs their rookie season.
    mistaowen
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:10 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    knownone wrote:Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.


    If Montez Sweat was the preferred choice they should have just taken him at 21, and forgot all the trade down crap they do every year. What is so wrong with grabbing a guy to replace Clark on a rookie contract. They still had pick 30 to do the trade down stuff. I really liked what I saw in Sweat the few times I saw him in college. He had 7 sacks his rookie year on a crap team. What number would he have had with Clowney on the other side? Who knows.

    This is also not the first time. They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT. Instead they went for a head case in McDowell. Our drafts have underwhelmed for the last 4-5 years. That is why we are in this predicament.

    Exactly.

    TJ Watt and Ramzyck could have been the pick.

    Smh.

    Watt is a pretty safe pick too.

    Comes from a good football family.

    Productive in college.

    High character.

    Talented.

    But, went after a head case.

    Anyone that didn’t believe this guy was a head case, go watch his interviews, just on that alone was telling me this guy should not have been the pick.


    Wonder if JS/PC self-review on this, probably thought they already had that in Ifedi and whatever no name pass rusher they had on roster...right :34853_doh:
    bandiger
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:45 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Man, I’m still upset Seattle drafted these guys.

    No contributions at all.

    PC cannot continue drafting lames like these two in early rounds.

    Pathetic.

    I never write off rookies. Blair showed something during his time on the field. Collier could very well move inside to a tackle position should the Seahawks op to let Reed walk. Remember the Hawks are in win now mode player development during the games is not likely as there were better options ahead of Collier on the roster last year considering Collier missed so much of training. Metcalf also missed much of training camp however he clearly has superstar potential which is why he received so much time. I think Collier will contribute next season.
    tersal
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:58 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    TJ Watt and Ramzyck could have been the pick.

    Smh.



    Christ on a bike - how many teams didn't pick Russ in the first *3* rounds? How many of the picks before him are headed to the frickin' hall of fame? You people act like there's a damn mathematical formula or something. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    I swear to God, some people b!@ch just to hear the sound of their own voices.
    GeekHawk
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:30 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    TJ Watt and Ramzyck could have been the pick.

    Smh.



    Christ on a bike - how many teams didn't pick Russ in the first *3* rounds? How many of the picks before him are headed to the frickin' hall of fame? You people act like there's a damn mathematical formula or something. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    I swear to God, some people b!@ch just to hear the sound of their own voices.

    You know you’ve missed the point, completely.

    The point was the first and second round picks for the last several years have not shown anything.

    But please feel free to be super sensitive and have hurt feelings.
    Last edited by TheLegendOfBoom on Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:31 pm
  • There were a number of players ahead of each of Collier and Blair.

    Both were injured early making the climb up the depth chart harder.

    @ S the team had
    McDougald
    Thompson
    Hill
    Blair
    Amadi,
    and few others around for brief cameo appearances, but Blair missed critical early reps and was unable to see the field. However, when he did he also got beat over the head on a play that clearly annoyed Pete when he was freelancing. He also had to unlearn his constant desire to lay the big hit on WRs instead of ensuring the play didn't result in a catch. He flashed moments of great talent and moments of rookie blockheaded play. In all he still showed great promise.

    @ DE the team had
    Clowney
    Ansah
    Jefferson
    Green
    Jackson
    Collier
    5 guys were ahead of Collier who also started behind b/c of early injury, he never seemed to be in Pete's good graces and had a season of wasting away on the inactive list. Something was up that we just are not informed of b/c I can't see how he could have been that much of a drafting whiff. With him I suspect he will show up next preseason with his hair on fire jacked up and ready to roll. I am hopeful we get to see the player the coaches thought he was in drafting him. At this stage we don't know what he's genuinely about, but we saw Green's growth after his slow start and he could become a genuinely good DE.

    Each of Blair and Collier started from behind and never seemed to truly break out from their slow starts. Condemning them both as busts this early is very short sighted. I think we will all be happily surprised with them both in the fullness of time.
    jammerhawk
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:52 pm
  • FloridaSeahawk18 wrote:Pete loves to tout how he plays Rookies and they come into their own by the end of the year, but he was so weird about certain players this year. Really hope Collier is not a bust considering he got virtually no play-time this year, could he really be that awful in practice?

    Remember Bruce Irvin's rookie year? How about Frank Clark's rookie year? Pete has never been about playing rookies just because of their draft slot. In fact, the emphasis we put on UDFA success is just the opposite. Once a player is in training camp it doesn't matter to Pete how they got there. Go back and look at the 2019 off-season discussion about the rookies and most of the discussion from the FO was about how Metcalf was ready for immediate production and the rest of the rookies still had a lot of growing to do.

    Mid-season practice reps are laser focused towards game day planning for the upcoming opponent. They aren't for teaching a rookie who missed all of training camp how to play the position in the NFL. There are other coaches who do things differently and are willing to tank in the short term to develop players in the long-term. Pete's magic is that he will be 100% convinced that his 2020 squad is contending for a Super Bowl and he can get his players to buy into that every year.
    AgentDib
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:11 pm
  • Appyhawk wrote:" They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT."

    That one hurts!
    Gawd, hindsight is a rude mutha. What a difference those two would have made for us, entirely changing the situation we're in right now.


    Raczyk was an injury concern, and did struggle early. HIndsight...

    TJ Watt would have been nice, but who knows what they were looking for art the time.

    Montez Sweat had heart issues didn't he?

    The Collier pick was a bit of a reach, but likely taken because of fit. McShay had him as a 2nd rounder and saw him as a perfect fit for Seattle. But he got injured.

    The one thing that puzzles me, and aggravates me is Pete's choices where he doesn't give young players like Nazair or Collier enough reps.I

    He used to, but now has gotten too "risk averse," which is no way to run a team. It's like "playing not to lose. " I HATE that!

    He needs to go back to being the coach that built the 2013 team, instead of being That coach that every other coach in the NFL becomes by playing it safe.

    None of the players we picked last year area busts yet. They're still rookies, trying to break in to a starting NFL lineup. That's on Pete, not them.

    I think LJ Collier is going to be just fine, and Marquise Blair is going to blow some fools up, causing turnovers, and unnecessary roughness penalties that will produce ZERO fines.
    ivotuk
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:38 am
  • I don't know that Blair is a single-high FS in the Seattle scheme like ET was and Diggs is bringing back.
    To me Blair is more SS, and a McDougald replacement or backup. It's hard to have too many quality DBs in this league. With Tedric T and Llano Hill looking less than impressive, Blair looked better in the action he did get, and just needs to keep learning the game. I look for Blair to ball out next season.
    olyfan63
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:21 pm
  • How about we just try and rid the team of Hill and Thompson and go from there. We could probably get a large Costco toilet paper container for both, which is ironic since both are ASS.
    Largent80
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Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:46 pm
  • If your first round pick doesn't play almost AT I'm going with the early signs of a bust. Until he proves me wrong that will be the narrative. 1st round picks are supposed to make an impact. Some kind of an impact. Dude never played. If he was good he would have played. He didn't even dress.

    Blair on the other hand looks like a ball IMO. He's going to sir behind B-Mac until we let him walk in FA or if he gets hurts. I'm VERY excited for Blair. He's going to be a baller for us. HE'S the player I'll have patience with. Not the player who doesn't even dress

    And for those who want to compare Collier to Green. Green was a third round pick correct? Nuff said
    kthebestwayw
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