Do Not Sell My Personal Information

LJ Collier and Marquise Blair

The Essential Online Seattle Football Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. LANGUAGE: PG-13
Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:42 pm
  • LJ was a wasted pick at this point. Blair shows signs of promise.
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2690
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:45 am
  • Late 1st round picks are always second rounders. True impact 1st rounders are gone by pick #15 so all of the assigning a value because of the round number is moot.

    Collier was a projected second rounder and basically that is where the Hawks took him.

    We will see improvement just like we did with Penny.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36076
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:32 am
  • Something not working out does not mean it was the wrong decision. They're only a year in, give them time.
    HawksSoc
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 952
    Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:40 am
    Location: Ireland!


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 am
  • kthebestwayw wrote:
    And for those who want to compare Collier to Green. Green was a third round pick correct? Nuff said


    This is specious reasoning on the assumptions that a) all drafts have equivalent talent at every position and b) that the science of drafting is known.

    One only has to look at the top 10 picks of 2013 to realize that both those assertions are untrue.

    It could well be that Green had the exact same grade as Collier to the Seahawks. But if there is a slow run on DE and there are decent guys with similar grades hanging around, you can afford to wait on picking Green. In the Collier case, there was a run on DE and there wasn't anyone with a similar grade behind Collier. And given we "needed" a DE at that point, he became an earlier pick than they wanted.

    So comparing one years first rounder to another years 3rd rounder doesn't work because every draft is it's own ecosystem of players, grades, needs.

    I'm not saying Collier's a bust or a good pick, but I certainly can understand why and I can hope that he plays at Green's level next year and not be disappointed because of the false narrative about 1st round picks needing to be better than 3rd rounders.

    Basically you need to hit on 2 players per draft as legit starters. If you can do that it's successful.
    Mad Dog
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1727
    Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:12 am


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:51 am
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    kthebestwayw wrote:


    Basically you need to hit on 2 players per draft as legit starters. If you can do that it's successful.


    When was the last time we did that?
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2690
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:57 am
  • John63 wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    kthebestwayw wrote:


    Basically you need to hit on 2 players per draft as legit starters. If you can do that it's successful.


    When was the last time we did that?


    This year. DK, Barton, Both starters. Plus Haynes and Homer both ended up starting games. So that's 4 if you are counting.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36076
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:14 pm
  • All in all this last draft looked to be a good draft for the team and if both of Collier and Blair find their way to regular playing time it will be shown to be a highly successful draft. The team got productive results from Amadi and Burr-Kirven as well.

    Lots of premature hand wringing going on here over Blair and Collier.

    So the last draft yielded WR- Metcalf -starter, OLB- Cody Barton -starter, RB- Homer, OG- Haynes, OLB- BBK, and DB-Amadi all with significant playing time. The ones that disappointed besides Blair and Collier were WR- Ursua, DT- Christmas. To me that is a productive draft haul.
    jammerhawk
    * NET Moderator *
     
    Posts: 6785
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:13 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:26 pm
  • It was an awesome draft by JS especially since we only had 4 picks before it. THIS year is completely different.

    We don't need to trade jack squat because we have the late 1st, 2 seconds, and a 3rd. All of those are very good picks.

    He may have to move a second for a coveted player in a trade, but that still gives us 3 in the first 3 rounds after using a second for a valued trade (TE...maybe Howard from TB?)

    Collier is going to pay dividends this and especially next year just like Green. Green is in perfect position to take the next step. Collier will be next in line.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36076
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:53 pm
  • I would be okay with the Seahawks contracting drafting in the first two rounds to an outside consultant. Collier, Penny, McDowell, Ifedi . . . Who will be this years third rounder picked in the first round or whatever pick the Seahawks make first?
    JayhawkMike
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 263
    Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:06 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:33 am
  • JayhawkMike wrote:I would be okay with the Seahawks contracting drafting in the first two rounds to an outside consultant. Collier, Penny, McDowell, Ifedi . . . Who will be this years third rounder picked in the first round or whatever pick the Seahawks make first?

    Had to get your Penny dig in didn't you?
    hawksfansinceday1
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 24484
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:38 am
    Location: Vancouver, WA


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:42 am
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:I would be okay with the Seahawks contracting drafting in the first two rounds to an outside consultant. Collier, Penny, McDowell, Ifedi . . . Who will be this years third rounder picked in the first round or whatever pick the Seahawks make first?

    Had to get your Penny dig in didn't you?

    Yes he did..Penny never makes it to the third for sure.
    IndyHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5232
    Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:42 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:19 am
  • I think Blair will be just fine. If he was to put on about 10-15 more pounds of muscle without loosing speed that would be great this off-season. I could see him supplanting McDougald as our starting SS at some point this coming season.

    Collier is more of a head scratcher for me. It does take time to learn the DE position in the NFL. Also, he plays the same position as Clowney as a 5tech. So the hope would be that he can develop well enough to back up Clowney and possibly even get some downs as a DT in a rotation. I don't see star written on him at all. But it's just too soon to say with him hurt and missing so much of camp. This off-season is real important for him to get stronger and be ready for camp. He can't afford to miss time again.

    I still think they should have taken Sweat at 21 instead of moving down. We had pick 30 for that purpose.
    kf3339
    Platinum Supporter
    Platinum Supporter
     
    Posts: 3047
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:52 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:16 pm
  • kf3339 wrote:
    knownone wrote:Both guys are hard to judge at the moment.

    Blair flashed massive potential in his brief appearances in the lineup. He looks like a guy who needs some time to learn the scheme before he can be trusted on the field. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a Kam and becomes a valuable starter in his second season.

    Collier is anyone's guess. I'm personally of the belief that Seattle was expecting Montez Sweat to fall to them, when Washington grabbed him they panicked into taking the only other viable DE option. It's the only rational explanation I can think of to explain the pick. Collier at the time wasn't really a need; we had/have a ton of guys on the roster with a similar skill set, but we really had no speed rushers out outside of Martin.


    If Montez Sweat was the preferred choice they should have just taken him at 21, and forgot all the trade down crap they do every year. What is so wrong with grabbing a guy to replace Clark on a rookie contract. They still had pick 30 to do the trade down stuff. I really liked what I saw in Sweat the few times I saw him in college. He had 7 sacks his rookie year on a crap team. What number would he have had with Clowney on the other side? Who knows.

    This is also not the first time. They traded down in 2017 passing on both TJ Watt for DE and Ramczyk for OT. Instead they went for a head case in McDowell. Our drafts have underwhelmed for the last 4-5 years. That is why we are in this predicament.


    Agreed they have passed on a ton of talent trading down to add picks for guys like Posic and Lano Hill. We traded Clark got 2 first round picks to work with last draft and all we got was Metcalf and it was just blind luck he was still on the board. I have no faith in JS via the draft he's much better in FA . Wilson is in his prime and a top 3 QB in the NFL and he's carrying this FO. Pete needs to go back to the guy he was when he first got here if your not producing your out. That goes for his coaching staff ,players and GM.
    Northwest Seahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1554
    Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:10 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:21 pm
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote: I have no faith in JS via the draft


    Really???...JS is the guy that drafted Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, and Richard Sherman the latter two in later rounds. Then he got a guy from the CFL (Browner)....Hmmmm the L.O.B......terrible drafting right?

    The draft is hit/miss and it depends on needs and what is available ALONG with available cap space.
    Largent80
    NET Ring Of Honor
     
    Posts: 36076
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:38 pm
    Location: The Tex-ASS


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:28 pm
  • Largent80 wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote: I have no faith in JS via the draft


    Really???...JS is the guy that drafted Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, and Richard Sherman the latter two in later rounds. Then he got a guy from the CFL (Browner)....Hmmmm the L.O.B......terrible drafting right?

    The draft is hit/miss and it depends on needs and what is available ALONG with available cap space.


    He hasn't had a good draft in over 4 years.I give JS a ton of credit drafting Wilson was genius but you have to be able to change and adapt and he's not his draft model isn't working anymore . Hasn't for a number of years now. I really hope he has a good draft this year .
    Northwest Seahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1554
    Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:10 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:07 pm
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote: I have no faith in JS via the draft


    Really???...JS is the guy that drafted Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, and Richard Sherman the latter two in later rounds. Then he got a guy from the CFL (Browner)....Hmmmm the L.O.B......terrible drafting right?

    The draft is hit/miss and it depends on needs and what is available ALONG with available cap space.


    He hasn't had a good draft in over 4 years.I give JS a ton of credit drafting Wilson was genius but you have to be able to change and adapt and he's not his draft model isn't working anymore . Hasn't for a number of years now. I really hope he has a good draft this year .


    Griffin Brothers
    DK
    Michael Dickson
    Dissly
    Flowers
    Penny
    Carson
    Reed
    Lockett
    Clark

    That's your current and former starters with a handful of Pro Bowlers mixed in over the past four years.

    I won't argue that Pete and John's hit rate on the draft hasn't been good enough to re-stock the roster with above average to elite talent to get back to the SB, but IMO this is more a product of winning = lower and less picks + Pete getting further and further away from having the scouting advantage over the rest of the league like he did in the beginning.

    Just means we're more the median average of talent mined from the draft, rather than exceptional like we were the first 2-3 years of Pete's tenure.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 16596
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:23 pm
  • Oh look, more front office bashing.
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 15035
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:26 pm
  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote: I have no faith in JS via the draft


    Really???...JS is the guy that drafted Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, and Richard Sherman the latter two in later rounds. Then he got a guy from the CFL (Browner)....Hmmmm the L.O.B......terrible drafting right?

    The draft is hit/miss and it depends on needs and what is available ALONG with available cap space.


    He hasn't had a good draft in over 4 years.I give JS a ton of credit drafting Wilson was genius but you have to be able to change and adapt and he's not his draft model isn't working anymore . Hasn't for a number of years now. I really hope he has a good draft this year .


    Seventh best success rate in the league between 2015 and 2018, but yeah no good draft.
    https://overthecap.com/looking-at-nfl-draft-success-since-2015/
    BASF
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1850
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:07 pm


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:48 pm
  • BASF wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    Northwest Seahawk wrote: I have no faith in JS via the draft


    Really???...JS is the guy that drafted Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, and Richard Sherman the latter two in later rounds. Then he got a guy from the CFL (Browner)....Hmmmm the L.O.B......terrible drafting right?

    The draft is hit/miss and it depends on needs and what is available ALONG with available cap space.


    He hasn't had a good draft in over 4 years.I give JS a ton of credit drafting Wilson was genius but you have to be able to change and adapt and he's not his draft model isn't working anymore . Hasn't for a number of years now. I really hope he has a good draft this year .


    Seventh best success rate in the league between 2015 and 2018, but yeah no good draft.
    https://overthecap.com/looking-at-nfl-draft-success-since-2015/


    I don't care what abstract system some nerd came up with for boiling a draft's quality down to a single percentage. After Clark and Lockett, nobody in his right mind thinks 2015's draft was any better than 2014 or 2013. The depth from those years was non-existent, and what we did get either got hurt or escaped to other teams.

    2016 and 2017 were slightly better.

    2018, now we're talking. Four starter-quality guys, three nice rotational players.
    MontanaHawk05
    * 17Power Blogger *
     
    Posts: 17332
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 9:46 am


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:20 pm
  • While less than enamoured with our first round pick success recently, if all we got out of the draft last year was Metcalf I would determine that to be a successful draft. But that isn't all we got. Combining the draft with all Schneider's wheeling and dealing we got DK, some line depth, a potential starting safety, a potential linebacker replacement, not to mention CLOWNEY. I don't see any way to say that isn't a successful offseason of acquisition.
    Having said that we can clearly improve our stats in the first round. That may require maneuvering for a higher pick than #27 in order to get what we most want, instead of a fallback plan. I want to see us get in on one of the best of the best, instead of beginning with our choice of the rest.
    Appyhawk
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 678
    Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:43 pm
    Location: Ranch in Flint Hills of Kansas, formerly NW Montana.


Re: LJ Collier and Marquise Blair
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:33 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:After Clark and Lockett, nobody in his right mind thinks 2015's draft was any better than 2014 or 2013. The depth from those years was non-existent, and what we did get either got hurt or escaped to other teams.


    It is not even remotely fair to knock a GM's picks for them getting injured or them no longer being on the team.

    I am not saying that they were good drafts, but I am pointing out that compared to the rest of the league we are in the top third of success rate on a consistent basis. A lot of the people who treat the draft like it is their religion focus only on the successes of others (with big splash drafts) and discount the success that we have because it is not up to their standards.
    BASF
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1850
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:07 pm


Previous


It is currently Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:52 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOOTBALL ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 135 guests