Uptempo Offense

Cyrus12 · Feb 6, 2020

Glad to see Wilson speaking out. Hopefully the coaches listen.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... o-moments/

hawksfansinceday1 · Feb 6, 2020

Nunya, calling Nunya......please pick up the Mike Florio is a lawyer phone

Nunya · Feb 6, 2020

hawksfansinceday1":cve99ivh said:
Nunya, calling Nunya......please pick up the "Mike Florio" courtesy phone

Lol.....I try not to repeat myself too often.

I guess people will read what they want into what he said. Florio is sure doubling down on it. While Russ did say he would like to go after the other team more and score more points, it is quite obvious that he was talking about "specific moments" (since he specifically said that 3 times) when he is talking about "up-tempo".

Peter King was spot on. They need a good TE and they need to "put their foot on the throats of the defense" when they get a lead....i.e. not let up to just control the clock. Unless they are eating up 5-6 ypc on the run, they do need to rely on Wilson's talent more. Until we get another "beast mode" type of RB, they need to find alternatives to running.

Chris Simms was also right. The defense is a major issue and will not likely be fixed by next season. Scoring on every drive does little good if the defense can not make a stop. Extending the time our defense is on the field takes away 1-2 (or more) drives by the offense.

p.s. I see you edited your post. Florio was a lawyer for about 20 years before he really started writing about sports. He still does some lawyer-ing on the side, but I don't know what kind of cases he takes. I was a little hyperbolic towards him. He really is not that bad of a writer....but he does get fixated on a "theme" and seldom deviates from it.

hawksfansinceday1 · Feb 6, 2020

Nunya":3pydiluo said:
........Chris Simms was also right. The defense is a major issue and will not likely be fixed by next season. Scoring on every drive does little good if the defense can not make a stop. Extending the time our defense is on the field takes away 1-2 (or more) drives by the offense..........

It may not be fixed to top 10 level but even a middle of the road D could get us a SB win IF our RBs and o-line can stay reasonably healthy and yes, if they can score a bit more in first halves.

hawksfansinceday1 · Feb 6, 2020

One thing I'll say about Florio, at least he doesn't spend half his time slobbering all over the cowpukes like NFLN. ESPN, Cowherd, etc.

Nunya · Feb 6, 2020

hawksfansinceday1":3kzmaidw said:
Nunya":3kzmaidw said:

........Chris Simms was also right. The defense is a major issue and will not likely be fixed by next season. Scoring on every drive does little good if the defense can not make a stop. Extending the time our defense is on the field takes away 1-2 (or more) drives by the offense..........

Click to expand...

It may not be fixed to top 10 level but even a middle of the road D could get us a SB win IF our RBs and o-line can stay reasonably healthy and yes, if they can score a bit more in first halves.

Totally agree. Seattle's defense was 18 on 3rd down at 39.52%/ That has to improve. They don't need to be a top 5 defense, but they do need to be fairly reliable. They can get away with a weak pass rush against average QBs, but the great QBs will tear a zone up if given time.

And I also agree that they need to start better in the 1st half. Maybe some up tempo will help, but they need an Oline with endurance to do that successfully. I don't think we have that yet. Metcalf will likely improve and I suspect he will only improve season after season. Our achilles on offense is the lack of a healthy TE. Our short passing game was fairly lackluster and I think that needs to improve.

hawksfansinceday1 · Feb 6, 2020

Nunya":18cgebcb said:
hawksfansinceday1":18cgebcb said:

Nunya":18cgebcb said:

........Chris Simms was also right. The defense is a major issue and will not likely be fixed by next season. Scoring on every drive does little good if the defense can not make a stop. Extending the time our defense is on the field takes away 1-2 (or more) drives by the offense..........

Click to expand...

It may not be fixed to top 10 level but even a middle of the road D could get us a SB win IF our RBs and o-line can stay reasonably healthy and yes, if they can score a bit more in first halves.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. Seattle's defense was 18 on 3rd down at 39.52%/ That has to improve. They don't need to be a top 5 defense, but they do need to be fairly reliable. They can get away with a weak pass rush against average QBs, but the great QBs will tear a zone up if given time.

And I also agree that they need to start better in the 1st half. Maybe some up tempo will help, but they need an Oline with endurance to do that successfully. I don't think we have that yet. Metcalf will likely improve and I suspect he will only improve season after season. Our achilles on offense is the lack of a healthy TE. Our short passing game was fairly lackluster and I think that needs to improve.

Yeah someone posted the differences in the offense with and without Dissley and the numbers were significant. And if Will had stayed healthy, the O would've only continued to trend upward as Metcalf developed over the course of the season.
I don't know about uptempo because of what you mentioned. I mean the best way to avoid giving up points is having your D on the sidelines. But at least we could be more aggressive early on.

Nunya · Feb 6, 2020

hawksfansinceday1":2m8di4yv said:
Nunya":2m8di4yv said:

hawksfansinceday1":2m8di4yv said:

Nunya":2m8di4yv said:

........Chris Simms was also right. The defense is a major issue and will not likely be fixed by next season. Scoring on every drive does little good if the defense can not make a stop. Extending the time our defense is on the field takes away 1-2 (or more) drives by the offense..........

Click to expand...

It may not be fixed to top 10 level but even a middle of the road D could get us a SB win IF our RBs and o-line can stay reasonably healthy and yes, if they can score a bit more in first halves.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. Seattle's defense was 18 on 3rd down at 39.52%/ That has to improve. They don't need to be a top 5 defense, but they do need to be fairly reliable. They can get away with a weak pass rush against average QBs, but the great QBs will tear a zone up if given time.

And I also agree that they need to start better in the 1st half. Maybe some up tempo will help, but they need an Oline with endurance to do that successfully. I don't think we have that yet. Metcalf will likely improve and I suspect he will only improve season after season. Our achilles on offense is the lack of a healthy TE. Our short passing game was fairly lackluster and I think that needs to improve.

Click to expand...

Yeah someone posted the differences in the offense with and without Dissley and the numbers were significant. And if Will had stayed healthy, the O would've only continued to trend upward as Metcalf developed over the course of the season.
I don't know about uptempo because of what you mentioned. I mean the best way to avoid giving up points is having your D on the sidelines. But at least we could be more aggressive early on.

I really like Dissley, but I would not be surprised if he is not on the roster next season. 2 seasons with 2 fairly major injuries is not good for the personal morale. Dickson might be in the same boat. Willson was a one year contract so they will probably let he go. If this is the case, that leaves Swoopes and Hollister.

Hollister isn't bad but Swoopes is expendable.....so Hollister could be the sole TE. If so, I would expect a TE in the draft. Personally, I like Kmet from ND. He should be available in the 1st round, but might still be available in the 2nd. Picking him in the 1st might be a reach though. Pinkney from Vanderbilt is another possibility, but I think he would be a better 3-4 round pick.

John63 · Feb 7, 2020

Its not just uptempo it is changing the tempo. In the first half we almost always snap the ball very late, this gives the defense an advantage, our play calling is very predictable. However most of the time in the 2nd half we snap the ball at different times, some early, some late, some as soon as we get to the line. We also are much less predictable in play call.

Again no one is saying throw more we are talking quality which goes with the changing of tempo, play calling and the aggressiveness that goes with it

jammerhawk · Feb 7, 2020

While there are certainly times you need to see more uptempo, you also need to have the O stay on the field so the D has tome to have a blow. This last season the D was truly not that good and having the O play slow early didn’t hurt.

While it wasn’t pretty to watch an 11-5 record speaks to the success of the mentality adopted. However, of course we wanted to see more but the reality of the nature and simple number of critical injuries doomed the team to late season failure. The close late loss to SF pointed out there just weren’t enough healthy horses left. I’m not. Disagreeing with the desire to see more uptempo O but truly we need to see a better D that can actually put some pressure on opposing QBs, the two are not mutually exclusive and we’d see more uptempo with a stronger D.

Another thing we need is to see more raw s-p-e-e-d from the O, which would also assist the uptempo O.

BASF · Feb 7, 2020

Nunya":mye2yjv0 said:
Unless they are eating up 5-6 ypc on the run, they do need to rely on Wilson's talent more. Until we get another "beast mode" type of RB, they need to find alternatives to running.

What exactly does this mean? I'd say that Carson's running style is pretty close to Beast Mode. As far as getting 5-6 ypc, Lynch only did 5 ypc once in his career, and for the most part it is because teams had no idea how to handle the read option with Wilson and Lynch in Wilson's first season. Other than that season, Lynch did not have back to back seasons with a better ypc than Carson.

As previously mentioned, keeping your defense off the field is a good thing, especially when your line is very poor at pass blocking. I have been reviewing the All 22, and I have been shocked at how badly our line performs in the quick passing game. It is to the point where I think that there is a tell when we are going slant. In each case, the guard was pushed directly into the passing lane when they needed to get push and turn their defensive tackle towards the center. In each case, it seemed that the player was not trying to rush the passer, he was legitimately trying to occupy that space. What happened later determines a bit of success off of the defenses tactic, is that when it happened in the second half, the slant was a decoy and the secondary route was changed and Lockett was running a crosser that gained significant yards (I don't have my notes in front of me).

This is just one example of how testing the defense in the early stages of the game to see how they will respond to what you are doing makes it far easier to move the ball in the second half. There will be more.

jammerhawk · Feb 7, 2020

BASF, I agree with your post but also agree the O needs to change up more frequently to uptempo, to me it's not an either or situation but a situation that becomes more unpredictable. RW needs better receivers who win with speed or are physically dominant enough to beat the press.

I have wondered for a while about your comment about slants and passing tells coming from the OLine, or the formation or even RW. There is something in this observation.

Testing the D early is Pete's version of the rope-a dope. It's frustrating to watch but yields late game results.

Nunya · Feb 7, 2020

BASF":1k99r1nv said:
Nunya":1k99r1nv said:

Unless they are eating up 5-6 ypc on the run, they do need to rely on Wilson's talent more. Until we get another "beast mode" type of RB, they need to find alternatives to running.

Click to expand...

What exactly does this mean? I'd say that Carson's running style is pretty close to Beast Mode. As far as getting 5-6 ypc, Lynch only did 5 ypc once in his career, and for the most part it is because teams had no idea how to handle the read option with Wilson and Lynch in Wilson's first season. Other than that season, Lynch did not have back to back seasons with a better ypc than Carson.

I did not say they need to AVERAGE 5-6 yards. No matter who is the RB, there will be runs for losses or no/little gain. Maybe I should have added the word "consistently". Carson was certainly filling that role around mid-season and the change of pace with Penny was a great bonus. However, once they both got hurt, our run game became more of a liability. If an offence can not force the LBs to step up towards the line to stop the run, this often results in denying a short passing game across the middle.

As previously mentioned, keeping your defense off the field is a good thing, especially when your line is very poor at pass blocking. I have been reviewing the All 22, and I have been shocked at how badly our line performs in the quick passing game. It is to the point where I think that there is a tell when we are going slant. In each case, the guard was pushed directly into the passing lane when they needed to get push and turn their defensive tackle towards the center. In each case, it seemed that the player was not trying to rush the passer, he was legitimately trying to occupy that space. What happened later determines a bit of success off of the defenses tactic, is that when it happened in the second half, the slant was a decoy and the secondary route was changed and Lockett was running a crosser that gained significant yards (I don't have my notes in front of me).

This is just one example of how testing the defense in the early stages of the game to see how they will respond to what you are doing makes it far easier to move the ball in the second half. There will be more.

Could not have said it better myself. I have seen the same thing on the slants.

Tical21 · Feb 7, 2020

John63":1u26www8 said:
Its not just uptempo it is changing the tempo. In the first half we almost always snap the ball very late, this gives the defense an advantage, our play calling is very predictable. However most of the time in the 2nd half we snap the ball at different times, some early, some late, some as soon as we get to the line. We also are much less predictable in play call.

Again no one is saying throw more we are talking quality which goes with the changing of tempo, play calling and the aggressiveness that goes with it

This is incorrect. We always snap the ball late, unless we are behind and/or are playing with urgency. We were always late under Bevell too. We weren't under Bates. What's the common connection here....

Tical21 · Feb 7, 2020

Watch this. Tell me if you still think we get plays in late. Tell me what you see on the plays where we don't snap the ball until the end of the clock.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +full+game

Largent80 · Feb 7, 2020

There isn't a single excuse in the world for getting those plays in like that. How many times did we see it just last year?

It's fixable, so fix it. Even with all the injuries, young players etc. they overcame a lot, but we aren't overcoming ourselves which makes it that much harder.

Attyla the Hawk · Feb 7, 2020

jammerhawk":2o5rb9yv said:
BASF, I agree with your post but also agree the O needs to change up more frequently to uptempo, to me it's not an either or situation but a situation that becomes more unpredictable. RW needs better receivers who win with speed or are physically dominant enough to beat the press.

I agree.

I don't even think it has to be up tempo per se. The coaches have to get the plays in much faster. It's a sluggish process, that constantly takes 20+ seconds to get through. Leaving almost no time to employ motion or to even survey a defense. This is a coaching thing. Not a player thing. They simply have to improve here.

It's not as if they have to run the plays faster. But they can't be constantly breaking the huddle with 7-10 seconds left on the clock. It's much easier for the defense to time their rush when we only have 2-3 seconds before the clock runs out.

Seattle just doesn't stress the defense at all when they are in 'feel them out' mode. The tempo at the end of halves/end of games contributes to play success. Just as adding motion/misdirection. It gives opponents more opportunities to make a mistake. Or to tip a blitz/coverage. We do better when we're not in our lethargic can't win in the first quarter mode because we make it harder on the defense.

And yes, our receivers could use a serious infusion of talent. We saw what Josh Gordon provided, even in very limited form last year. We get that level of production on a more consistent basis from day one -- this offense stays on the field and churns TOP and scoring opportunities. Gordon provided game altering catches and that was with just a dramatically small handful of targets. Imagine what 3-5 similar catches per game from our #3 receiver could do (along with hopefully a complete season of quality TE production).

This is an epic class of WR. Any team that wants a top 10 WR group can have one from this class. Russell is the best player on this team by far and we're not leveraging that talent in full. Given the amount of attention that Lockett and Metcalf receives -- our #3 receiver is going to be our least covered/accounted for target. Improving that particular option has the potential to provide massive return for us.

It'd almost be a crime not to come away with 2 WRs from this class. There are going to be close to half a dozen prospects on the board late R4 that all would have graded higher than Jaelen Strong did (R3/2015).

Tical21 · Feb 7, 2020

Attyla the Hawk":kkcstr4w said:
jammerhawk":kkcstr4w said:

BASF, I agree with your post but also agree the O needs to change up more frequently to uptempo, to me it's not an either or situation but a situation that becomes more unpredictable. RW needs better receivers who win with speed or are physically dominant enough to beat the press.

Click to expand...

I agree.

I don't even think it has to be up tempo per se. The coaches have to get the plays in much faster. It's a sluggish process, that constantly takes 20+ seconds to get through. Leaving almost no time to employ motion or to even survey a defense. This is a coaching thing. Not a player thing. They simply have to improve here.

It's not as if they have to run the plays faster. But they can't be constantly breaking the huddle with 7-10 seconds left on the clock. It's much easier for the defense to time their rush when we only have 2-3 seconds before the clock runs out.

Seattle just doesn't stress the defense at all when they are in 'feel them out' mode. The tempo at the end of halves/end of games contributes to play success. Just as adding motion/misdirection. It gives opponents more opportunities to make a mistake. Or to tip a blitz/coverage. We do better when we're not in our lethargic can't win in the first quarter mode because we make it harder on the defense.

And yes, our receivers could use a serious infusion of talent. We saw what Josh Gordon provided, even in very limited form last year. We get that level of production on a more consistent basis from day one -- this offense stays on the field and churns TOP and scoring opportunities. Gordon provided game altering catches and that was with just a dramatically small handful of targets. Imagine what 3-5 similar catches per game from our #3 receiver could do (along with hopefully a complete season of quality TE production).

This is an epic class of WR. Any team that wants a top 10 WR group can have one from this class. Russell is the best player on this team by far and we're not leveraging that talent in full. Given the amount of attention that Lockett and Metcalf receives -- our #3 receiver is going to be our least covered/accounted for target. Improving that particular option has the potential to provide massive return for us.

It'd almost be a crime not to come away with 2 WRs from this class. There are going to be close to half a dozen prospects on the board late R4 that all would have graded higher than Jaelen Strong did (R3/2015).

Seriously, watch a clip of games. Plays getting in late is not a problem at all.

John63 · Feb 7, 2020

jammerhawk":34mx2qs5 said:
While there are certainly times you need to see more uptempo, you also need to have the O stay on the field so the D has tome to have a blow. This last season the D was truly not that good and having the O play slow early didn’t hurt.

While it wasn’t pretty to watch an 11-5 record speaks to the success of the mentality adopted. However, of course we wanted to see more but the reality of the nature and simple number of critical injuries doomed the team to late season failure. The close late loss to SF pointed out there just weren’t enough healthy horses left. I’m not. Disagreeing with the desire to see more uptempo O but truly we need to see a better D that can actually put some pressure on opposing QBs, the two are not mutually exclusive and we’d see more uptempo with a stronger D.

Another thing we need is to see more raw s-p-e-e-d from the O, which would also assist the uptempo O.

Great but now we need to show how going change tempo means lower time of possesion. According to team rankings our TOP in the 2nd half which is when we run change tempo is 51% so that means we win TOP, in the first half we are 50.5 so we win TOP there to but by a lower margin.

Largent80 · Feb 7, 2020

We simply need a better defense then all of this doesn't matter.

Uptempo Offense

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