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L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"

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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 7:03 am
  • Smellyman wrote:
    Appyhawk wrote:Collier will get his chance. What more can he ask for?
    Here's the thing that bugs me. Collier was a first round selection for a defensive player from the Big12.
    I see a lot of Big12 football. When you watch Big12 football these days outstanding defensive play is NOT what you notice. What you see is a whole lot of flashy offensive players scoring the ball and making big play after big play. I, for one, would NOT be looking at the Big12 to find outstanding defensive football players. There are some that are very good, but they look outstanding because of a lack of talent surrounding them on defense.
    So what I'm saying is I think Collier has a lot to prove. There's only one way to do that. I'll also point out we have another one in the same rowboat we got with our first round pick this year. I'm hoping both can do it as Seahawks at NFL level, but I'm waiting to see them prove it before I start crashing the cymbals.


    So Jordyn Brooks will be bad too?


    Not saying either will be "bad". Just saying defense is not the priority in Big12 football and when you have a guy that is a lonely talent on his side of the ball his stats are amplified to an extent that can be misleading in terms of actual talent level. I hope both will turn out to be all pro, but I'll believe it when I see it.
    Not many thought Bobby Wagner would turn out to be what he is, but he became about as good as it gets.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 7:43 am
  • If a player has talent they could be from Fred's University for all it matters. it's not where they are from, but what they do when they get here.

    Collier was a difference making player at the Senior Bowl, a dominating Outside /In DE/DLineman. He wasn't a guy with 'character issues' like McDowell. However, he didn't have the uber athletic profile that many Seahawks draft picks possess, but was player who's reputation was one of delivering hard work with top physicality. He seemed to be a player who was on the rise. I liked what he had to say and his humility and desire to show up with his early interviews. Then last season happened and with his injury he was simply invisible which is a tough and greatly disappointing showing from a 1st round draft pick. He did zip but cost the team on several levels: pick, salary, and wasted roster spot. In the end he would have probably been better to have been put on IR. Undoubtedly he has been disrespected as he'd shown nothing deserving respect which he must know has to be earned and can be lost easily.

    He's right to be feeling some pressure to perform. if he needs to play the 'disrespected' card for his motivation I have nothing against that except it seems a tad cliche. For his sake I hope he's putting in the work so last season was just a medical redshirt lost season or the level of 'disrespect' he experiences will elevate significantly. He needs to put his head down and prove himself. There are several other guys here now who are ready to take his job. He needs to compete.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels
Sun May 31, 2020 8:33 am
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

    Why is everyone so offended over this? He gets absolutely crapped on, and has from the moment he was picked. It is perfectly acceptable for him to feel disrespected at this stage, because he feels as if he has talent to contribute and is being written off by everyone. How is that abnormal? Why is that wrong?

    It's being made a bigger deal of than it actual is, having listened to him speak.
    Because a responsible person would acknowledge that they contributed zero in their first year and so it’s quite appropriate and not at all disrespectful, that fans, other players, the world, treat him as a non contributor until he manages to make the active squad?

    It’s one thing for Doug Baldwin or Sherman to whine about disrespect; they have a leg to stand in. It’s another thing for this waste of a roster spot (in year one) to whine about it. Do something on the field, hell, see the field at all, then we can talk about disrespect. The guy’s beneath disrespecting at this point; he’s beneath any notice whatsoever.


    That's a really, really serious post for a reaction to a football player stating that he's looking forward to disproving notions regarding his level of talent. You, and others, should be rooting for that to happen - yet instead, you take the opportunity to.. get mad?

    Just strikes me as ridiculous.

    I don’t see where he’s acting “mad”.

    You can root for a player while still recognizing that they’ve been a disappointment so far.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 9:01 am
  • Rat wrote:I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

    1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
    1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
    1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
    1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
    1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

    1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

    3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
    3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
    3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
    3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
    Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

    Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.


    Appreciate the trouble "Rat" went to in providing content. I do think inclusion of significant additional stats help put comparisons in better perspective.

    Bosa DL 789 defensive snaps
    Rerrell DL 659 snaps
    Allen DL 646 defensive snaps
    Burns LB 729 defensive snaps
    Sweeet LB 483 defensive snaps

    Collier DL 155 defensive snaps

    Allen DL 149 defensive snaps
    Winovich DL 295 defensive snaps
    Ferguson LB 507 defensive snaps
    Ximines LB 512 defensive snaps

    Crosby DL 768 defensive snaps
    .................................................................................................................

    So there is quite a mix of different positions in different schemes on different teams of players with different roles, snap opportunities and unique individual health experiences for 2019. Acknowledging these additional stats/variables make comparisons a bit more muddled.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 9:32 am
  • Jville wrote:
    Rat wrote:I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

    1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
    1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
    1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
    1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
    1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

    1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

    3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
    3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
    3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
    3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
    Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

    Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.


    Appreciate the trouble "Rat" went to in providing content. I do think inclusion of significant additional stats help put comparisons in better perspective.

    Bosa DL 789 defensive snaps
    Rerrell DL 659 snaps
    Allen DL 646 defensive snaps
    Burns LB 729 defensive snaps
    Sweeet LB 483 defensive snaps

    Collier DL 155 defensive snaps

    Allen DL 149 defensive snaps
    Winovich DL 295 defensive snaps
    Ferguson LB 507 defensive snaps
    Ximines LB 512 defensive snaps

    Crosby DL 768 defensive snaps
    .................................................................................................................

    So there is quite a mix of different positions in different schemes on different teams of players with different roles, snap opportunities and unique individual health experiences for 2019. Acknowledging these additional stats/variables make comparisons a bit more muddled.


    Why wasn’t he getting those snap opportunities though? He was getting healthy scratches late in the year. And it’s not like he was fighting tons of great players for PT.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 10:19 am
  • Rat wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    Rat wrote:I keep hearing that rookie DEs don't produce, so I looked up the first ten DEs selected in last year's draft. Collier was the sixth selected.

    1.02 Niners - Nick Bosa: 47 tackles, 9 sacks
    1.04 Raiders - Clelin Ferrell: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks
    1.07 Jaguars - Josh Allen: 44 tackles, 10.5 sacks
    1.16 Panthers - Brian Burns: 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks
    1.26 Redskins - Montrez Sweat: 50 tackles, 7 sacks

    1.29 Seahawks - L.J. Collier: 3 tackles, 0 sacks

    3.65 Cardinals - Zach Allen: 8 tackles, 0 sacks (Injured neck in week 4, missed rest of season)
    3.77 Patriots - Chase Winovich: 26 tackles, 5.5 sacks
    3.85 Ravens - Jaylon Ferguson: 31 tackles, 2.5 sacks
    3.95 Giants - Oshane Ximines: 25 tackles, 4.5 sacks
    Then the 11th one: 4.106 Raiders - Maxx Crosby: 47 tackles, 10 sacks, 4 forced fumbles

    Nobody should be "writing him off", but that's pretty discouraging for a 25-year-old rookie.


    Appreciate the trouble "Rat" went to in providing content. I do think inclusion of significant additional stats help put comparisons in better perspective.

    Bosa DL 789 defensive snaps
    Rerrell DL 659 snaps
    Allen DL 646 defensive snaps
    Burns LB 729 defensive snaps
    Sweeet LB 483 defensive snaps

    Collier DL 155 defensive snaps

    Allen DL 149 defensive snaps
    Winovich DL 295 defensive snaps
    Ferguson LB 507 defensive snaps
    Ximines LB 512 defensive snaps

    Crosby DL 768 defensive snaps
    .................................................................................................................

    So there is quite a mix of different positions in different schemes on different teams of players with different roles, snap opportunities and unique individual health experiences for 2019. Acknowledging these additional stats/variables make comparisons a bit more muddled.


    Why wasn’t he getting those snap opportunities though? He was getting healthy scratches late in the year.


    Some answers lie in the interview archives of 2019. Regrettably, I don't have the relevant links organized by player to offer for our convenience. As I recall, injury and rehab limitations as well as falling behind on learning his assigned role with the Seahawks were the leading reasons offered up. He was drafted for a projected role with the Seahawks .... significantly different than his college role. There are also the "we don't know what we don't know" variables.

    2020 will give us the answer as to if he provides the role he was projected to fill when they drafted him.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 3:04 pm
  • So far, the guy is as underwhelming as a Twilight sequel.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 4:26 pm
  • This year proves he is either another bust or he shows something...anything...got my doubts.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 4:50 pm
  • Reading a lot of these post makes me wonder if there are any Seahawk fans in Seattle. Sure doesn't sound like it...
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 4:58 pm
  • Donn2390 wrote:Reading a lot of these post makes me wonder if there are any Seahawk fans in Seattle. Sure doesn't sound like it...

    Nah, most seem to be accurately stating how he has performed so far. They’ve definitely been watching the games, which is probably necessary for Seahawk fandom.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 5:40 pm
  • Donn2390 wrote:Reading a lot of these post makes me wonder if there are any Seahawk fans in Seattle. Sure doesn't sound like it...


    I agree, pretty disgusting if you ask me. You would think fans would be excited to have two, 1st round picks playing this season. Guy seems motivated and seems to care.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun May 31, 2020 6:38 pm
  • rcaido wrote:
    Donn2390 wrote:Reading a lot of these post makes me wonder if there are any Seahawk fans in Seattle. Sure doesn't sound like it...


    I agree, pretty disgusting if you ask me. You would think fans would be excited to have two, 1st round picks playing this season. Guy seems motivated and seems to care.

    Having Luke Joeckel and Germain Ifedi on the same OL didn’t make it any more exciting.

    I believe we have five playing this season: Collier, Brooks, Warmack, Penny, and Olsen. That has to be the most underwhelming group of former first-rounders in the league.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:18 am
  • Rat wrote:I believe we have five playing this season: Collier, Brooks, Warmack, Penny, and Olsen. That has to be the most underwhelming group of former first-rounders in the league.


    I'm calling "Premature E-Speculation" on lumping Jordyn Brooks into this group.
    He's supposed to be the second coming of Bobby Wagner. Who was a 2nd round pick IIRC.

    Let's at least give Brooks a chance to suck, or not, before declaring that he does.

    Penny played like a 1st rounder a couple games last year. Was it vs. Philly where he had the 40-ish yard TD run as part of an overall excellent game? But yeah, more consistency would be nice. Now, after ACL, who knows what we'll get?

    Greg Olsen... underwhelming? He's torched us before, playing for Carolina. Let's give him a chance in a Seahawk Uni.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:16 pm
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:I believe we have five playing this season: Collier, Brooks, Warmack, Penny, and Olsen. That has to be the most underwhelming group of former first-rounders in the league.


    I'm calling "Premature E-Speculation" on lumping Jordyn Brooks into this group.
    He's supposed to be the second coming of Bobby Wagner. Who was a 2nd round pick IIRC.

    Let's at least give Brooks a chance to suck, or not, before declaring that he does.

    Penny played like a 1st rounder a couple games last year. Was it vs. Philly where he had the 40-ish yard TD run as part of an overall excellent game? But yeah, more consistency would be nice. Now, after ACL, who knows what we'll get?

    Greg Olsen... underwhelming? He's torched us before, playing for Carolina. Let's give him a chance in a Seahawk Uni.


    I agree 100%
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:58 pm
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:I believe we have five playing this season: Collier, Brooks, Warmack, Penny, and Olsen. That has to be the most underwhelming group of former first-rounders in the league.


    I'm calling "Premature E-Speculation" on lumping Jordyn Brooks into this group.
    He's supposed to be the second coming of Bobby Wagner. Who was a 2nd round pick IIRC.

    Let's at least give Brooks a chance to suck, or not, before declaring that he does.

    Penny played like a 1st rounder a couple games last year. Was it vs. Philly where he had the 40-ish yard TD run as part of an overall excellent game? But yeah, more consistency would be nice. Now, after ACL, who knows what we'll get?

    Greg Olsen... underwhelming? He's torched us before, playing for Carolina. Let's give him a chance in a Seahawk Uni.


    No, it's not "premature" to list Brooks among our first round picks, given that he was, you know, a first round pick. I don't think anything he does going forward is going to turn him into a second rounder. I never said he sucked.

    Back to what I ACTUALLY said, it is a very underwhelming group of first rounders. Say what you want about Brooks (lol at "the second coming of Bobby Wagner", who said that?), but the rest of our rostered first rounders are: Collier, who had as discouraging a rookie season as someone can have, Warmack, an enormous bust who didn't even have a job last year, Penny, who has provided nothing resembling first-round value, and will likely miss at least half of next season coming off a serious knee injury, and Olsen, an addition I liked a lot, but this isn't prime Greg Olsen; he's 35 and has not made it through a season healthy in years. Over the last three seasons COMBINED, he has less than 100 receptions, just over 1000 yards, and 7 TDs.

    If our first rounders were listed with every NFL team's first rounders, I'd be shocked if they weren't bottom five. I'm not going to do the whole league right now, but it's easily the worst group in the division:

    Niners: Nick Bosa, Brandon Aiyuk, Jevon Kinlaw, Mike McGlinchey, Trent Williams, Laken Tomlinson, Arik Armstead, Dee Ford, Solomon Thomas, Jason Verrett, Jimmie Ward

    Rams: Jared Goff, Aaron Donald, Michael Brockers, Jalen Ramsey

    Cards: Kyler Murray, Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins, DJ Humphries, Chandler Jones, Isaiah Simmons, Patrick Peterson

    Yeah, our group of first rounders isn't underwhelming :roll:
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:41 am
  • jmahon316 wrote:
    olyfan63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:I believe we have five playing this season: Collier, Brooks, Warmack, Penny, and Olsen. That has to be the most underwhelming group of former first-rounders in the league.


    I'm calling "Premature E-Speculation" on lumping Jordyn Brooks into this group.
    He's supposed to be the second coming of Bobby Wagner. Who was a 2nd round pick IIRC.

    Let's at least give Brooks a chance to suck, or not, before declaring that he does.

    Penny played like a 1st rounder a couple games last year. Was it vs. Philly where he had the 40-ish yard TD run as part of an overall excellent game? But yeah, more consistency would be nice. Now, after ACL, who knows what we'll get?

    Greg Olsen... underwhelming? He's torched us before, playing for Carolina. Let's give him a chance in a Seahawk Uni.


    I agree 100%


    Yea, muddled arguments can be driven to what ever assertion its author desires. However, Pete and John are who their record says they are. And that is what matters. As their now healthy and motivated LJ Collier choice accumulates more snaps, he'll help upgrade that yet to be assembled 2020 defensive line rotation.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:29 am
  • Rat wrote:
    olyfan63 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Back to what I ACTUALLY said, it is a very underwhelming group of first rounders. Say what you want about Brooks (lol at "the second coming of Bobby Wagner", who said that?)


    https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/sea ... bby-wagner

    The current Texas Tech HC, who was on the coaching staff of Utah State when Bobby Wagner played in college.

    Also Jim Nagy, executive director of the Senior Bowl who watched Brooks play said he (Brooks) reminded him of BWagz.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:09 am
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

    Why is everyone so offended over this? He gets absolutely crapped on, and has from the moment he was picked. It is perfectly acceptable for him to feel disrespected at this stage, because he feels as if he has talent to contribute and is being written off by everyone. How is that abnormal? Why is that wrong?

    It's being made a bigger deal of than it actual is, having listened to him speak.
    Because a responsible person would acknowledge that they contributed zero in their first year and so it’s quite appropriate and not at all disrespectful, that fans, other players, the world, treat him as a non contributor until he manages to make the active squad?

    It’s one thing for Doug Baldwin or Sherman to whine about disrespect; they have a leg to stand in. It’s another thing for this waste of a roster spot (in year one) to whine about it. Do something on the field, hell, see the field at all, then we can talk about disrespect. The guy’s beneath disrespecting at this point; he’s beneath any notice whatsoever.


    That's a really, really serious post for a reaction to a football player stating that he's looking forward to disproving notions regarding his level of talent. You, and others, should be rooting for that to happen - yet instead, you take the opportunity to.. get mad?

    Just strikes me as ridiculous.


    Oh, I'm not mad, and it doesn't make him a bad human being. This is par for the course for what I expect out of 20 year old kids who play a game for a living. It's not a mortal sin, just a touch of immaturity. All he would have had to do to elicit a positive fan response instead was say that it burns him he couldn't get on the field last year and is determined to do better. Instead, bringing disrespect into the mix implies some external factors were involved in his non-performance. This is known as an "excuse".

    It's actually your reaction to what he said that prompted me to respond because it's so knee-jerk defensive. What LJ waste-of-a-roster-spot says in the offseason doesn't move the needle for me.

    I just chuckle at how you're baffled at the fan reaction from a player who couldn't make the field crying about disrespect. I think actually I should agree it's disrespect, and that my argument with him isn't that he used that word, but more than he thinks that disrespect for his game is somehow inappropriate based on his lack of performance.

    If anyone respected LJ's game, then the concept of respect is pretty much meaningless.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:15 pm
  • In any case I don't think it is fair to set the bar to high for a rookie (even though I was guilty of exactly that in the case of DK). Expecting Brooks to come in and be Wagner ll just isn't going to happen even if he is really good.
    Trouble is our non-rookie acquisitions might seem to have painted us into the corner of NEEDING our rookies to come in and immediately play at a very high level. So I'm more inclined to point fingers at our staff than the rookies. That's not easy for me to do as I think very highly of our FO staff. But the moves made this year have left me scratching my head in wonder. I'm never ready to declare a disaster so long as there's time on the clock, but seems very fair to me to say we look to be in a questionable position.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:14 am
  • I think too many people mistake fair treatment for respect. Fair treatment is deserved by everyone. Respect, however, can only be earned by deeds and actions.

    Maybe Collier wasn't treated fairly by some folks given he was injured through training camp. However he was never "disrespected" because he has done nothing as a professional football player to deserve respect in the first place.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:24 pm
  • Praise and criticism are not mutually exclusive. Take Penny for instance. I was hyped up when he was drafted and then, very quickly, I started to have doubts. Why? His performance or rather, lack thereof. Being a Hawks fan, I was happy as hell to see him shining prior to the injury.

    That doesn't make you a fair weather fan. You have to earn the praise AND accept the criticism when it's due.

    If you're one of those people that find excuses and then "rubs" it in the face of other's IF the player turns it around, you likely buy your kids participation trophies when they don't hit the goal.

    LJ had a terrible rookie year. If he wants to call it disrespect to motivate himself, great. I don't blame him for calling it as such but the simple fact of the matter is, based on performance, he's looking like a waste of a first round pick.

    I would love it if he proves everyone wrong. If that happens and it doesn't make you happier than a hobo with a sandwich, you may be a Niners or Rams fan.

    Good luck LJ....would love to see it.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:51 pm
  • Respect is better earned than given.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:17 pm
  • He's a high-rounder and how many sacks did he even have last year? Maybe 2? And no he wasn't hurt for most of the season. Was he even put on ST?

    He looked totally absent and as he was being paid, there was every incentive to play him if he was even close to ready.

    I think what happened is that the Hawks wanted Montez Sweat and when he went of the board they had to pick an alternative fast. One they thought would start in Y1, esp as he was old as a rookie.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:00 pm
  • He had zero sacks, played limited minutes and was frequently not active on game day. He had 3 tackles all year in 155 defensive plays.
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Re: L.J. Collier feels "disrespected"
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:48 am
  • springscohawk wrote:I am okay with L.J.'s statements. My translation, "I am motivated to show this year that I am a good football player and plan on being a big contributor this year. "

    He does not think he should be forgotten about for 2020 as a big contributor for DE.

    His statements would have come across better if he would have acknowledged he didn't have a good year last year, didn't contribute much, and needs to improve.

    As a man, I have a fragile ego and get upset sometimes when I feel my competence, performance, or value is being attacked or questioned. Maybe deservedly so, sometimes. I wouldn't say, " I believe and feel I am not loved or cared about, I feel rejected." Rather, "I feel disrespected, discounted"

    All I care about is that L.J. is motivated and performs with more fire this year 2020. Sherman and Baldwin used disrespect card to fuel their drive. As a first rounder, Collier cannot say Seahawks organization disrespected him but he may think he is being forgotten about, discounted, disrespected by media and fans.

    You're right. What happened to Collier is the opposite of disrespect. He disprespected the team by playing like crap.
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