The difference between PC and Belichick

Besides cheating that is -

The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.

You're delusional and selective in your characterization of Pete Carroll.

Carroll has simply recommitted to doing it his way, as far as he believes, the right way, but he absolutely does evolve and change. He's been doing that for multiple, multiple decades now. Does he always evolve and change brilliantly, with all the speed we'd wish? Hell no, he's human. Does he adjust, best as he can, within the constraints available to him? Heck yeah!!

He's found in Adams an ideal player for the defensive system he really prefers to run. The Dallas media, Cowboys fans, envies the Seahawks getting Adams, and grades the Seahawks an A and the Jets a B on the trade.

olyfan63":so0bzp2m said:

You're delusional and selective in your characterization of Pete Carroll.

Carroll has simply recommitted to doing it his way, as far as he believes, the right way, but he absolutely does evolve and change. He's been doing that for multiple, multiple decades now. Does he always evolve and change brilliantly, with all the speed we'd wish? Hell no, he's human. Does he adjust, best as he can, within the constraints available to him? Heck yeah!!

He's found in Adams an ideal player for the defensive system he really prefers to run. The Dallas media, Cowboys fans, envies the Seahawks getting Adams, and grades the Seahawks an A and the Jets a B on the trade.

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And the 49ers, Cards, and Rams damn the acquisition only due to making things harder now for them. Kind of like Ronnie Lott going to the Raiders back in the day, changed things a lot back then.

Let's see how flexible Belichek is without Brady.

I admire the creativity that Belichek has shown in moments... but he's as rigid in his approach as most coaches.

JayhawkMike":1v47s192 said:

Besides cheating that is -

The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again

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What, building a complete team?

JayhawkMike":36djuqei said:

Besides cheating that is -

The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.

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Yeah, and Billicheat was a huge success with the Browns.

scutterhawk":3ckq7c6b said:

JayhawkMike":3ckq7c6b said:

Besides cheating that is -

The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.

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Yeah, and Billicheat was a huge success with the Browns.

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Great point. Belichick learned from his earlier mistakes.

Let me as you this. Is PC a better coach today than 5+ years ago? Is he better at drafting than 5+ years ago (yes I know JS drafts too) ? My answer to both is that he is not.

Drama town, typical. Yeah, we have it SO bad in Seattle with Pete. :yawn:

Belichick allows players to play to their strengths. Pete makes players play to his scheme rather than theirs.

Easy as that.

Pete's way of doing things has made the team and players very successful. Matter of opinion and that's cool. He gets more out of his guys than most.

pittpnthrs":h6b9z9v1 said:

Belichick allows players to play to their strengths.

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Belechick forces players into simple boxes based on his assessment of their abilities. He doesn't let anybody do anything that he didn't decide they were going to do beforehand.

SoulfishHawk":29siffb6 said:

Pete's way of doing things has made the team and players very successful. Matter of opinion and that's cool. He gets more out of his guys than most.

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If Belechick is the only coach people can compare him to in order to point out his weaknesses, he's probably pretty good at his job.

A lot of these other young hot shots that were being touted a couple years ago (innovative!!) have totally crapped the bed. It's like personnel matter.

Carroll isn't perfect and isn't above criticism (and neither is Belechick, even though he's the best). I'm was happy to have Holmgren and I'm happy to have Carroll. There's a pretty good chance we'll get stuck in a constant turnover of coaches who last 1-3 seasons for awhile like almost every franchise has to deal with when he's gone and it will just suck.

Uncle Si":2w06kg0c said:

Let's see how flexible Belichek is without Brady.

I admire the creativity that Belichick has shown in moments... but he's as rigid in his approach as most coaches.

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I would say that is true in regards to the culture Belichick has built in New England. He is your classic militaristic head coach that makes you toe the line or else you're gone. He demands certain things from his players and if they deviate they are purged. He runs a tight ship that doesn't deviate or accommodate. If we look at things from a schematic point of view, however Bill Belichick is like a chameleon.

If you look at Belichick's team from a schematic standpoint it's changed quite a bit over the years. When he first started on the Patriots, Belichick ran a run first, ball control style offense. The defense was a Parcell's style 3-4 system and that continued for awhile. In 2007 he completely shifted his teams philosophy. He abandoned the classic ball control offense stretched the ball horizontally and vertically. He implemented some of the collegiate spread offense concepts here, including making Brady take most of his snaps from the shotgun, where he previously spent much of his time under center. In the following years Bilicheck would make his defense switch to more 4-3 looks, including incorporating some Pete Carroll defensive tactics at times. In recent years he's even went back to more smash mouth styles depending on his team comp.

Belichick is not beholden to one play style. He's been known to throw out some weird curve balls and come out with a completely different style than he normally runs, just because he saw it worked against a certain opponent, and then side line it for the rest of the year. Not many head coaches are this flexible from a schematic standpoint. He is obsessive, and extremely detail oriented. He sees patterns and details which others overlook or don't see. This is not Carroll nor is it most NFL coaches.

Carroll by contrast is your classic NFL head coach. He's very good in one area, and has a rigid approach to the game. Sometimes he deviates but you can count on him always going back to his old style and refusing to relent. I notice he especially does this late in the season. This can actually be used to describe most of the NFL head coaches. Billicheck is just a unique dude in respect to his schemes. I can't even say that he is innovative, he just isn't attached to any philosophy in particular. He borrows much of what he sees from other teams. A lot of coaches are obsessed with winning their way, Belichick doesn't really care how he wins. The way he approaches the game is very lawyer like as well. He looks at the rules and sees which of the rules he can bend. He's always on the edge regarding rules and regulations. Belichick lives in the grey areas.

bmorepunk":152fc61f said:

pittpnthrs":152fc61f said:

Belichick allows players to play to their strengths.

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Belechick forces players into simple boxes based on his assessment of their abilities. He doesn't let anybody do anything that he didn't decide they were going to do beforehand.

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Yeah, I probably worded it wrong. I should have said Belichick is better at assessing and evaluating players strengths and putting them where they will be most effective compared to Pete. My bad.

JayhawkMike":2h6izuma said:

Besides cheating that is -

The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.

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exactly the difference "good coaches create a system built for his players" PC does not.

Belichek will do whatever it takes to win, adapt, use unconventional alignments and players in different roles and is not locked into one scheme on offense or defense, he will exploit and exploit some more and will not back down, essentially a Terminator of a Football team, he is unwavering severely demanding and his way or no way and will cut or release anyone on the team that doesn't not follow that mentality.

He will push and exploit the boundaries of the rule books to see how far he can go for an advantage. Pretty much if it doesn't say I can't do something then I will do it till they say I can't.

Pete's mentality is more the exact opposite, the most he pushes is contacts match ups and position battles where he gets his hands slapped because they are filmed. Between Walsh and Grant he has a handle on what he wants to do, he is pretty hands free with individual players and trying to control them, has an open door policy and a lot of support for them if needed, but is strict in his philosophy of expectations of how a defense and offense should work. That's his Frame work.

Comparing Pete to Bellicheck is just silly. Bellicheck is arguably, the most successful coach in NFL history. Pete's been very successful, too, most HCs never get to even one SB much less two. And in terms of longevity there are only 4 coaches with more consecutive years than Pete as an NFL HC (currently). That's Bellicheck, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh. Pretty good company to be in.

Simply put, most coaches have "their way" of doing things and if they win, they get to keep on doing it.

This for me is the most disappointing thing about Pete. Admittedly, I really didn't know much about Pete other than his failed previous NFL coaching stint and his success at USC. But I hoped Pete would be a coach with a much more dynamic approach ala Belichick. Pete is basically using the same tired formula every other coach in the league uses; try and repeat their past success using the same formula over and over again. The problem is that once the salary cap wrecks their once stacked roster, they get exposed.

I remember this came up a few years ago on the now defunct Mike and Mike show. I believe it was coach Herman Edwards that they asked about why Belichick is able to to what he does so well and why no other coach has been able to replicate his success--considering the NFL is a so called "copy-cat" league--why hasn't Belichick been copied? Herman Edwards answer was that Belichick finds all the details that other coaches just don't do.

I remember this question coming up briefly on other shows as well and the answer was always similar; "it's the details", "he runs a very demanding system", "not everyone can play in Belichick's system", "you need intelligent players to play in a his system", etc., etc.

Somewhat related; John Clayton bought up an interesting topic on his show a few years back about how everyone complains about the lack of good quarterbacks in the league. But no ones mentions the lack of good coaches in the league and how most coaches only know how to win with the system they came from. Belichick is the only coach who is willing to change on the fly.

If winning is the only thing that matters in the NFL why isn't Belichick copied by other coaches?

either 4 or 5

I agree that the premise itself is pretty complimentary towards Pete. I suspect there would be a more negative response if the topic instead was "The difference between Russ and Brady is..", but either way when the criticism is comparing something to the GOAT then the critics are reaching pretty hard.

It is annoying seeing the same thoughtless comments parroted here ad nauseum. In 2018 we had Justin Coleman as our nickel, and Pete ran base defense so infrequently that the off-season secondary discussion was mostly speculating about bandit and dime packages. Then in 2019 after losing Coleman we ran base defense 70% of the time, by far the highest percentage in the NFL. How do the posters who genuinely think that Pete does not adapt to his personnel explain this change - was Pete just feeling in more of a "base defense mood" all of last season?

Of course Pete has a preferred way of doing things, just like every coach does including Belichick. Pete thinks that turnover differential is highly correlated with winning and losing (and it is), and tries to factor that into his philosophy. But If you think everything is the same every year then you really aren't paying attention to the details, or are probably just repeating something you saw somebody else say without critically thinking about it.