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The difference between PC and Belichick

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The difference between PC and Belichick
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:13 pm
  • Besides cheating that is -

    The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

    Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

    BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.
    JayhawkMike
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  • You're delusional and selective in your characterization of Pete Carroll.

    Carroll has simply recommitted to doing it his way, as far as he believes, the right way, but he absolutely does evolve and change. He's been doing that for multiple, multiple decades now. Does he always evolve and change brilliantly, with all the speed we'd wish? Hell no, he's human. Does he adjust, best as he can, within the constraints available to him? Heck yeah!!

    He's found in Adams an ideal player for the defensive system he really prefers to run. The Dallas media, Cowboys fans, envies the Seahawks getting Adams, and grades the Seahawks an A and the Jets a B on the trade.
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  • olyfan63 wrote:You're delusional and selective in your characterization of Pete Carroll.

    Carroll has simply recommitted to doing it his way, as far as he believes, the right way, but he absolutely does evolve and change. He's been doing that for multiple, multiple decades now. Does he always evolve and change brilliantly, with all the speed we'd wish? Hell no, he's human. Does he adjust, best as he can, within the constraints available to him? Heck yeah!!

    He's found in Adams an ideal player for the defensive system he really prefers to run. The Dallas media, Cowboys fans, envies the Seahawks getting Adams, and grades the Seahawks an A and the Jets a B on the trade.



    And the 49ers, Cards, and Rams damn the acquisition only due to making things harder now for them. Kind of like Ronnie Lott going to the Raiders back in the day, changed things a lot back then.
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  • Let's see how flexible Belichek is without Brady.

    I admire the creativity that Belichek has shown in moments... but he's as rigid in his approach as most coaches.
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  • JayhawkMike wrote:Besides cheating that is -

    The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again


    What, building a complete team?
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  • JayhawkMike wrote:Besides cheating that is -

    The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

    Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

    BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.


    Yeah, and Billicheat was a huge success with the Browns.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:Besides cheating that is -

    The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

    Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

    BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.


    Yeah, and Billicheat was a huge success with the Browns.


    Great point. Belichick learned from his earlier mistakes.

    Let me as you this. Is PC a better coach today than 5+ years ago? Is he better at drafting than 5+ years ago (yes I know JS drafts too) ? My answer to both is that he is not.
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  • Drama town, typical. Yeah, we have it SO bad in Seattle with Pete. :yawn:
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  • Belichick allows players to play to their strengths. Pete makes players play to his scheme rather than theirs.

    Easy as that.
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  • Pete's way of doing things has made the team and players very successful. Matter of opinion and that's cool. He gets more out of his guys than most.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:Belichick allows players to play to their strengths.


    Belechick forces players into simple boxes based on his assessment of their abilities. He doesn't let anybody do anything that he didn't decide they were going to do beforehand.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Pete's way of doing things has made the team and players very successful. Matter of opinion and that's cool. He gets more out of his guys than most.


    If Belechick is the only coach people can compare him to in order to point out his weaknesses, he's probably pretty good at his job.

    A lot of these other young hot shots that were being touted a couple years ago (innovative!!) have totally crapped the bed. It's like personnel matter.

    Carroll isn't perfect and isn't above criticism (and neither is Belechick, even though he's the best). I'm was happy to have Holmgren and I'm happy to have Carroll. There's a pretty good chance we'll get stuck in a constant turnover of coaches who last 1-3 seasons for awhile like almost every franchise has to deal with when he's gone and it will just suck.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Let's see how flexible Belichek is without Brady.

    I admire the creativity that Belichick has shown in moments... but he's as rigid in his approach as most coaches.

    I would say that is true in regards to the culture Belichick has built in New England. He is your classic militaristic head coach that makes you toe the line or else you're gone. He demands certain things from his players and if they deviate they are purged. He runs a tight ship that doesn't deviate or accommodate. If we look at things from a schematic point of view, however Bill Belichick is like a chameleon.

    If you look at Belichick's team from a schematic standpoint it's changed quite a bit over the years. When he first started on the Patriots, Belichick ran a run first, ball control style offense. The defense was a Parcell's style 3-4 system and that continued for awhile. In 2007 he completely shifted his teams philosophy. He abandoned the classic ball control offense stretched the ball horizontally and vertically. He implemented some of the collegiate spread offense concepts here, including making Brady take most of his snaps from the shotgun, where he previously spent much of his time under center. In the following years Bilicheck would make his defense switch to more 4-3 looks, including incorporating some Pete Carroll defensive tactics at times. In recent years he's even went back to more smash mouth styles depending on his team comp.

    Belichick is not beholden to one play style. He's been known to throw out some weird curve balls and come out with a completely different style than he normally runs, just because he saw it worked against a certain opponent, and then side line it for the rest of the year. Not many head coaches are this flexible from a schematic standpoint. He is obsessive, and extremely detail oriented. He sees patterns and details which others overlook or don't see. This is not Carroll nor is it most NFL coaches.

    Carroll by contrast is your classic NFL head coach. He's very good in one area, and has a rigid approach to the game. Sometimes he deviates but you can count on him always going back to his old style and refusing to relent. I notice he especially does this late in the season. This can actually be used to describe most of the NFL head coaches. Billicheck is just a unique dude in respect to his schemes. I can't even say that he is innovative, he just isn't attached to any philosophy in particular. He borrows much of what he sees from other teams. A lot of coaches are obsessed with winning their way, Belichick doesn't really care how he wins. The way he approaches the game is very lawyer like as well. He looks at the rules and sees which of the rules he can bend. He's always on the edge regarding rules and regulations. Belichick lives in the grey areas.
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  • bmorepunk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Belichick allows players to play to their strengths.


    Belechick forces players into simple boxes based on his assessment of their abilities. He doesn't let anybody do anything that he didn't decide they were going to do beforehand.


    Yeah, I probably worded it wrong. I should have said Belichick is better at assessing and evaluating players strengths and putting them where they will be most effective compared to Pete. My bad.
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  • JayhawkMike wrote:Besides cheating that is -

    The difference is that PC had ultimate success doing things one way and has been trying to recreate that one way over and over again unsuccessfully Super Bowl wise. This is a common problem with coaches that are successful at some point In that they cement their play style based on that one or two years and from then on refuse to adapt to either theIr players or the times. Even with new assistants PC imposes his style on them. Only we do not have the players to pull off that style nor is it necessarily effective now 5 years later. Thus the huge overpay on Adams trying to bring back yesteryear.

    Belichick, who I hate, adapts each year and is malleable with his different assistant coaches and play style adapting to the players and the times.

    BTW I think this is PCs last year. Sacrificing the future for this year with that trade because he won’t have to deal with the consequences.



    exactly the difference "good coaches create a system built for his players" PC does not.
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  • Belichek will do whatever it takes to win, adapt, use unconventional alignments and players in different roles and is not locked into one scheme on offense or defense, he will exploit and exploit some more and will not back down, essentially a Terminator of a Football team, he is unwavering severely demanding and his way or no way and will cut or release anyone on the team that doesn't not follow that mentality.

    He will push and exploit the boundaries of the rule books to see how far he can go for an advantage. Pretty much if it doesn't say I can't do something then I will do it till they say I can't.

    Pete's mentality is more the exact opposite, the most he pushes is contacts match ups and position battles where he gets his hands slapped because they are filmed. Between Walsh and Grant he has a handle on what he wants to do, he is pretty hands free with individual players and trying to control them, has an open door policy and a lot of support for them if needed, but is strict in his philosophy of expectations of how a defense and offense should work. That's his Frame work.
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  • Comparing Pete to Bellicheck is just silly. Bellicheck is arguably, the most successful coach in NFL history. Pete's been very successful, too, most HCs never get to even one SB much less two. And in terms of longevity there are only 4 coaches with more consecutive years than Pete as an NFL HC (currently). That's Bellicheck, Tomlin, Payton and Harbaugh. Pretty good company to be in.

    Simply put, most coaches have "their way" of doing things and if they win, they get to keep on doing it.
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  • This for me is the most disappointing thing about Pete. Admittedly, I really didn't know much about Pete other than his failed previous NFL coaching stint and his success at USC. But I hoped Pete would be a coach with a much more dynamic approach ala Belichick. Pete is basically using the same tired formula every other coach in the league uses; try and repeat their past success using the same formula over and over again. The problem is that once the salary cap wrecks their once stacked roster, they get exposed.

    I remember this came up a few years ago on the now defunct Mike and Mike show. I believe it was coach Herman Edwards that they asked about why Belichick is able to to what he does so well and why no other coach has been able to replicate his success--considering the NFL is a so called "copy-cat" league--why hasn't Belichick been copied? Herman Edwards answer was that Belichick finds all the details that other coaches just don't do.

    I remember this question coming up briefly on other shows as well and the answer was always similar; "it's the details", "he runs a very demanding system", "not everyone can play in Belichick's system", "you need intelligent players to play in a his system", etc., etc.

    Somewhat related; John Clayton bought up an interesting topic on his show a few years back about how everyone complains about the lack of good quarterbacks in the league. But no ones mentions the lack of good coaches in the league and how most coaches only know how to win with the system they came from. Belichick is the only coach who is willing to change on the fly.

    If winning is the only thing that matters in the NFL why isn't Belichick copied by other coaches?
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  • either 4 or 5
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  • I agree that the premise itself is pretty complimentary towards Pete. I suspect there would be a more negative response if the topic instead was "The difference between Russ and Brady is..", but either way when the criticism is comparing something to the GOAT then the critics are reaching pretty hard.

    It is annoying seeing the same thoughtless comments parroted here ad nauseum. In 2018 we had Justin Coleman as our nickel, and Pete ran base defense so infrequently that the off-season secondary discussion was mostly speculating about bandit and dime packages. Then in 2019 after losing Coleman we ran base defense 70% of the time, by far the highest percentage in the NFL. How do the posters who genuinely think that Pete does not adapt to his personnel explain this change - was Pete just feeling in more of a "base defense mood" all of last season?

    Of course Pete has a preferred way of doing things, just like every coach does including Belichick. Pete thinks that turnover differential is highly correlated with winning and losing (and it is), and tries to factor that into his philosophy. But If you think everything is the same every year then you really aren't paying attention to the details, or are probably just repeating something you saw somebody else say without critically thinking about it.
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  • Belichick adjusts during the course of a game much better than Carroll , hence the rings . :D
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  • xray wrote:Belichick adjusts during the course of a game much better than Carroll , hence the rings . :D

    Or does he prepare the team better prior to the game? Or does he have better personnel? Or does he get luckier? Or does he skirt the rules more? You argue literally anything with the reasoning that Belichick must do X more because he has more rings.
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  • Probably at least 25 teams would love to have this debate.
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  • AgentDib wrote:
    xray wrote:Belichick adjusts during the course of a game much better than Carroll , hence the rings . :D

    Or does he prepare the team better prior to the game? Or does he have better personnel? Or does he get luckier? Or does he skirt the rules more? You argue literally anything with the reasoning that Belichick must do X more because he has more rings.


    Yes. Yes. No. Probably.

    Carroll had the making of a dynasty here and he squandered it. Belichick would not have.
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  • There's little point in comparing Bill Belichick to anyone else. He is without question the greatest NFL coach ever, and there's a good chance none of us will ever see his equal in our lifetimes...and I'm 37 years old.

    People think Brady is the GOAT....he never was. He's a great QB, but the GOAT with the Patriots is absolutely Belichick; who does not get stuck in his ways, either.
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  • Belichick has 8 SB rings . Two with the NY Giants as defensive coordinator ---6 with NE as HC and GM . Carroll helped
    the Hawks to 2 SBs wining 1 . That's probably it for Carroll . IMO
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  • xray wrote:Belichick has 8 SB rings . Two with the NY Giants as defensive coordinator ---6 with NE as HC and GM . Carroll helped
    the Hawks to 2 SBs wining 1 . That's probably it for Carroll . IMO


    3 and 1 on paper, 2 for 3 if you take the Refs out of the first one.

    Just helping with the fact checks, we know sometimes they get lost in posts from your side of the street.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:Belichick allows players to play to their strengths. Pete makes players play to his scheme rather than theirs.

    Easy as that.

    Yeah, I hate to admit it, I wish Pete would have let Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, & Browner all "play to their strengths" :roll:
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  • scutterhawk wrote:Yeah, I hate to admit it, I wish Pete would have let Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, & Browner all "play to their strengths" :roll:

    He sure as hell hasn't on offense, though. The stupidity of Bevell's schemes and situational personnel packages ruined our chance at a dynasty and that ultimately falls on Carroll.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    xray wrote:Belichick has 8 SB rings . Two with the NY Giants as defensive coordinator ---6 with NE as HC and GM . Carroll helped
    the Hawks to 2 SBs wining 1 . That's probably it for Carroll . IMO


    3 and 1 on paper, 2 for 3 if you take the Refs out of the first one.

    Just helping with the fact checks, we know sometimes they get lost in posts from your side of the street.


    Now might be a good time to bring up the differences in the Divisions, and how much tougher it is to compete in the NFC WEST, than what Billycheat with his deflated balls had to contend with.
    Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    xray wrote:Belichick has 8 SB rings . Two with the NY Giants as defensive coordinator ---6 with NE as HC and GM . Carroll helped
    the Hawks to 2 SBs wining 1 . That's probably it for Carroll . IMO


    3 and 1 on paper, 2 for 3 if you take the Refs out of the first one.

    Just helping with the fact checks, we know sometimes they get lost in posts from your side of the street.


    Now might be a good time to bring up the differences in the Divisions, and how much tougher it is to compete in the NFC WEST, than what Billycheat with his deflated balls had to contend with.
    Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.

    I hate this argument. They were only inches away from beating X opponent! The results are the same, and this isn't an uncommon occurrence in NFL games, in fact it is quite common -- hence the "it's a game of inches" moniker.

    Carroll got outcoached by by Bill Belicheck in that game. He knew Seattle had certain tendencies which they don't try to cover up or hide. For example, that specific play that Carroll ran on that fateful play was the only play that the Seahawks ran from that formation in goal line scenarios. Belicheck specifically had his players practicing against that play. To make matters worse we had Brandon Browner on the other side of the field. Butler and Browner knew what they play was the moment they lined up at the LOS. Pete Carroll also called on our worst route runner and arguably worst receiver on the team to make that play.

    As far as divisions go, yes Billicheck has played in weaker divisions but he also knows how to take care of business against better teams. The Seahawks have a losing record in the playoffs since our last Super Bowl run.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    xray wrote:Belichick has 8 SB rings . Two with the NY Giants as defensive coordinator ---6 with NE as HC and GM . Carroll helped
    the Hawks to 2 SBs wining 1 . That's probably it for Carroll . IMO


    3 and 1 on paper, 2 for 3 if you take the Refs out of the first one.

    Just helping with the fact checks, we know sometimes they get lost in posts from your side of the street.


    Now might be a good time to bring up the differences in the Divisions, and how much tougher it is to compete in the NFC WEST, than what Billycheat with his deflated balls had to contend with.
    Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.

    I hate this argument. They were only inches away from beating X opponent! The results are the same, and this isn't an uncommon occurrence in NFL games, in fact it is quite common -- hence the "it's a game of inches" moniker.

    Carroll got outcoached by by Bill Belicheck in that game. He knew Seattle had certain tendencies which they don't try to cover up or hide. For example, that specific play that Carroll ran on that fateful play was the only play that the Seahawks ran from that formation in goal line scenarios. Belicheck specifically had his players practicing against that play. To make matters worse we had Brandon Browner on the other side of the field. Butler and Browner knew what they play was the moment they lined up at the LOS. Pete Carroll also called on our worst route runner and arguably worst receiver on the team to make that play.

    As far as divisions go, yes Billicheck has played in weaker divisions but he also knows how to take care of business against better teams. The Seahawks have a losing record in the playoffs since our last Super Bowl run.


    He said 2 SB's we were in three, they biggest joke of officiating in history or has others forgot that one, 2 in the Pete Carroll era though. The Devil is in the details.
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  • Well this is Russell Wilson’s team now.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Belichick allows players to play to their strengths. Pete makes players play to his scheme rather than theirs.

    Easy as that.

    Yeah, I hate to admit it, I wish Pete would have let Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, & Browner all "play to their strengths" :roll:


    He let Browner play to his strengths. Just watch that play in the Super Bowl.

    I wish Pete wouldnt have lost the locker room after that play, but he did.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.


    Belichick didnt win that, Pete lost it.
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  • Pandion Haliaetus wrote:Well this is Russell Wilson’s team now.


    No its not. Its still Pete Carrolls team and Russ will still run the most antiquated, least innovative offense in the league. Thank God Russ is the player that he is.
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  • He kind of reminds me of Don James, he coaches the coaches. I have read where former players talk about how he can take over ANY position group and coach it better. PC would be limited to the defense in that regard I think. I think BB is a better big-picture coach than PC is.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.


    Belichick didnt win that, Pete lost it.

    Belichick won that game. He went through our footage and was able to map our situational tendencies. It came in handy at the end. I think he really messed with Carroll and Bevell when he pulled out the no timeout in crunch time gambit. Everyone was expecting the time out to come but Belichick held onto his timeout. It flew in the face of conventional football tactics, he got into our head with that simple tactic. It was a huge gamble it almost seemed like our team panic when they saw he wasn't going to call the time out. He disrupted the tempo.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.


    Belichick didnt win that, Pete lost it.

    Belichick won that game. He went through our footage and was able to map our situational tendencies. It came in handy at the end. I think he really messed with Carroll and Bevell when he pulled out the no timeout in crunch time gambit. Everyone was expecting the time out to come but Belichick held onto his timeout. It flew in the face of conventional football tactics, he got into our head with that simple tactic. It was a huge gamble it almost seemed like our team panic when they saw he wasn't going to call the time out. He disrupted the tempo.


    Read what you just posted. Pete lost that game due to a lack of situational awareness. Unfortunately, its a common problem with Pete.
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  • Belichick is an old school taskmasker perfectionist.

    It's why he wins a lot, but it's also why players want out of NE, even after winning rings.......and not surprisingly why the Patriots have had the most players opt out this season (up to eight now?). Even they can't fathom trying to play in a shortened season with the virus looming AND having to endure Belichick.

    Gronk and Brady didn't want to retire........they wanted to retire from Belichick.
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  • Would you rather have a coach that wins, or one you want to go grab lunch with?
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  • Pandion Haliaetus wrote:Well this is Russell Wilson’s team now.



    LOL yeah ahh no, PC will do what he wants WIlson or no Wilson. He knows no other way, he is a 1 trick pony
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:Let's face another fact (although a minor one), Pete with an all beat to hell LOB was only 1 yard away from sealing a win for that Super Bowl....In other words, Billycheat SQUEAKED out a really close win.


    Belichick didnt win that, Pete lost it.


    Thats code for PC got out coached it was Belichick who had the practice for that.
    John63
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  • Yeah, because it was Pete who gave up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. It was him who get shredded by Brady in the 4th quarter :?
    Believe it or not, sometimes it on the PLAYERS too.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • The difference between Belichek and Pete comes down to scheming to your opponent before or during the game.
    Belichek extensively gameplans for his opponent whereas Pete reacts to what his opponent is doing during a game.

    Both adapt to their personnel but tend to bring in guys that match their philosophy. Pete prefers great athletes with simplified schemes so they can succeed. Belichek prefers savvy vets who can learn their more complicated roles week to week.

    To say Pete doesn't adapt is silly since we've seen him adopt the read option and jet sweeps when they were de rigeur. He's moved from ZBS to more isolation man-on-man run game.

    Belichek is the greatest football coach on the planet because he goes after every angle (including breaking rules) to get a victory. His approach clearly can't be replicated as no disciple of his has achieved much success trying to bring the Patriot Way to other franchises. Not every coach is going to sacrifice their honor to win. I prefer guys like Reid and Carroll who are well respected by their peers and players.
    Mad Dog
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Yeah, because it was Pete who gave up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. It was him who get shredded by Brady in the 4th quarter :?
    Believe it or not, sometimes it on the PLAYERS too.


    Amazing how the 10 point lead blow is alright to defend PC but not Wilson.

    I agree that the blown lead was part of the issue. And I agree that the players have their part. That said so does PC, and he made no adjustments on defense and got out coached on offense. SO eh is just as much to blame as the players.

    The issue I have is PC is unwilling to do what good coaches should do, create/play a system built around his players.
    John63
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  • Mad Dog wrote:The difference between Belichek and Pete comes down to scheming to your opponent before or during the game.
    Belichek extensively gameplans for his opponent whereas Pete reacts to what his opponent is doing during a game.

    Both adapt to their personnel but tend to bring in guys that match their philosophy. Pete prefers great athletes with simplified schemes so they can succeed. Belichek prefers savvy vets who can learn their more complicated roles week to week.

    To say Pete doesn't adapt is silly since we've seen him adopt the read option and jet sweeps when they were de rigeur. He's moved from ZBS to more isolation man-on-man run game.

    Belichek is the greatest football coach on the planet because he goes after every angle (including breaking rules) to get a victory. His approach clearly can't be replicated as no disciple of his has achieved much success trying to bring the Patriot Way to other franchises. Not every coach is going to sacrifice their honor to win. I prefer guys like Reid and Carroll who are well respected by their peers and players.


    This changes that PC made are at a granular level, did it change the actual system it self, no we still run even when everyone knows we will, we still try to snap it with 3 or fewer seconds left. we still run rudimentary routes, and we still are veyr predictable.

    The system has not changed the way we do it change ie blocking ZBS to man great, but we are still run at all cost, still predictable, and still wasting time, and still not utilizing our personnel correctly.

    Let me put it another way you have a goat, you put a horse costume on it, great it looks like a horse but its still a goat.

    OR in other words we changed the way we run his system but not the system itself.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:The difference between Belichek and Pete comes down to scheming to your opponent before or during the game.
    Belichek extensively gameplans for his opponent whereas Pete reacts to what his opponent is doing during a game.

    Both adapt to their personnel but tend to bring in guys that match their philosophy. Pete prefers great athletes with simplified schemes so they can succeed. Belichek prefers savvy vets who can learn their more complicated roles week to week.

    To say Pete doesn't adapt is silly since we've seen him adopt the read option and jet sweeps when they were de rigeur. He's moved from ZBS to more isolation man-on-man run game.

    Belichek is the greatest football coach on the planet because he goes after every angle (including breaking rules) to get a victory. His approach clearly can't be replicated as no disciple of his has achieved much success trying to bring the Patriot Way to other franchises. Not every coach is going to sacrifice their honor to win. I prefer guys like Reid and Carroll who are well respected by their peers and players.


    This changes that PC made are at a granular level, did it change the actual system it self, no we still run even when everyone knows we will, we still try to snap it with 3 or fewer seconds left. we still run rudimentary routes, and we still are veyr predictable.

    The system has not changed the way we do it change ie blocking ZBS to man great, but we are still run at all cost, still predictable, and still wasting time, and still not utilizing our personnel correctly.

    Let me put it another way you have a goat, you put a horse costume on it, great it looks like a horse but its still a goat.

    OR in other words we changed the way we run his system but not the system itself.


    Why would you change the system/philosophy? It got you to two superbowls and many playoff seasons.

    I don't think Belichek has changed his philosophy at all. He still takes away what you do well which is the core tenet of his coaching philosophy. You gameplan around the weaknesses you find in film study.

    Pete's philosophy is see how you are attacking our gameplan and adjust to it. So you play the first half close to the vest, then open things up in the second half. I don't think it's ever been "run at all cost". It's "run because good things happen to those that run the ball." Physical dominance, taming the pass rush, running the clock, setting up deep shots. Didn't the Niners just make the Superbowl with the hawks philosophy? Strong run game, play action passing, dominating defense?

    There's nothing wrong with the philosophy. It works. People are arguing about style points these days.
    Mad Dog
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  • Bill attacks on offense and on defense.

    Pete tries to control on offense and defense.
    chris98251
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:The difference between Belichek and Pete comes down to scheming to your opponent before or during the game.
    Belichek extensively gameplans for his opponent whereas Pete reacts to what his opponent is doing during a game.

    Both adapt to their personnel but tend to bring in guys that match their philosophy. Pete prefers great athletes with simplified schemes so they can succeed. Belichek prefers savvy vets who can learn their more complicated roles week to week.

    To say Pete doesn't adapt is silly since we've seen him adopt the read option and jet sweeps when they were de rigeur. He's moved from ZBS to more isolation man-on-man run game.

    Belichek is the greatest football coach on the planet because he goes after every angle (including breaking rules) to get a victory. His approach clearly can't be replicated as no disciple of his has achieved much success trying to bring the Patriot Way to other franchises. Not every coach is going to sacrifice their honor to win. I prefer guys like Reid and Carroll who are well respected by their peers and players.


    This changes that PC made are at a granular level, did it change the actual system it self, no we still run even when everyone knows we will, we still try to snap it with 3 or fewer seconds left. we still run rudimentary routes, and we still are veyr predictable.

    The system has not changed the way we do it change ie blocking ZBS to man great, but we are still run at all cost, still predictable, and still wasting time, and still not utilizing our personnel correctly.

    Let me put it another way you have a goat, you put a horse costume on it, great it looks like a horse but its still a goat.

    OR in other words we changed the way we run his system but not the system itself.


    Why would you change the system/philosophy? It got you to two superbowls and many playoff seasons.

    I don't think Belichek has changed his philosophy at all. He still takes away what you do well which is the core tenet of his coaching philosophy. You gameplan around the weaknesses you find in film study.

    Pete's philosophy is see how you are attacking our gameplan and adjust to it. So you play the first half close to the vest, then open things up in the second half. I don't think it's ever been "run at all cost". It's "run because good things happen to those that run the ball." Physical dominance, taming the pass rush, running the clock, setting up deep shots. Didn't the Niners just make the Superbowl with the hawks philosophy? Strong run game, play action passing, dominating defense?

    There's nothing wrong with the philosophy. It works. People are arguing about style points these days.



    Why because we have not gotten beyond the 2nd round in 5+ years. Because you don't have the same players now you had then. Because your best players are different. But you just outlined the difference between PC and Belichick. Belichick adapts to what he has and builds a system around them hence why he has 5+ rings. A good HC builds a system to what he has. Its not style, its system in relations to the players we have. Also PC plays not to loose as opposed to playing to win. This leaves little room for error and does not play to the strength of the players on this team.
    John63
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