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Ethan Pocic named starting center

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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:41 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:44 pm
  • We're done man, get over it.

    Go Hawks
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:45 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Give the dude a chance, he might surprise us. He's our center on Sunday, so let's go get that W. We get it already, you spew the same crap about Pete, the o-line, the front office, pretty much anything Hawks related.
    Give it a rest and pull for you team. Everything sucks, they are going to win 3 games. Better?

    Go Hawks. 5 days til' we get it Rollin :irishdrinkers:



    I go in like every year with hope, but expect little. no history or fact to give me a reason for anything else. The best chance he and the rest have is a quick passing attack.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:46 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:We're done man, get over it.

    Go Hawks


    you mean your done, I am stating my opinion thats what a forum is for.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:48 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote::irishdrinkers:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    All I'm saying is that there is good reason to believe Pocic will perform better at center, which is his natural position. He was a very good center in college, it's his natural position on the line. He's had a good camp working at that spot. This is his best fit.

    The whole drive-by pessimism on any thread remotely involving the offensive line is weak sauce. If you feel so strongly about everybody sucking no matter what, at least offer some intelligent discourse on the topic.



    again 8+ years, and we have never ranked avg in pass blocking. Till he and them prove otherwise there is no reason to believe otherwise. ts not drive by when we have been saying and, they have been proving they have been bad for 8+ years.


    Have you ever considered how big of a role scheme plays into the offensive lines underperformance? Seattle is consistently one of the longest time-to-throw offenses in the league. I'm not saying the offensive line is good - just that they're given a comparatively difficult assignment in this offense.

    Notice that whenever Seattle has implemented a quicker passing game, the offensive line woes are far less dramatic. Personally, seeing as we have a famously elusive quarterback, I'm fine with the offensive line not being the highest priority. Much of the negative effects can be mitigated.

    Even with massive investment on the line to the detriment of other positions, I'm not sure they really could ever even be top 5 with a quarterback that takes his time like Russ does (be that through his own fault or through the fault of the scheme)



    Actually I have hence why most of my ire is at PC. He refuses to run what works best and forces them to do what he wants. So ate the needs to change, or he needs to get olineman who can pass protect in his system. Yet he constantly gets olineman known as good run blockers but bad pass blocker regardless of system.


    Deep passing game seems to work pretty well, considering Russell's efficiency is still elite despite the playbook being full of deep routes. Elite pass protectors don't grow on trees. If you can swing a deep passing attack because you have a great quarterback with excellent elusiveness, might as well. I'd rather see large investments go elsewhere, for the most part, especially towards the defense. I'm not saying they should switch the entire offense around just to make the offensive line look better, I'm just making a point that the scheme they're in makes them look worse. Black-and-white observations like the ad nauseum "known run blockers" mantra are not just lazy, but they do not come close to capturing the full picture of the situation.

    Either way, Pocic was a great center in college who was "known to be" a good pass blocker, and allowed very little pressure. I'm happy to see him get a shot at his primary position, where he has a better chance to flourish.

    The facts are this:

    - Regarding "protecting our investment" in Russ - he has never missed a game. He seems to do just fine behind this line, for the most part.

    - The offense continues to be an effective unit, despite being somewhat archaic in it's philosophy.

    - The same lines you're criticizing from earlier in Carroll's tenure ticked along well enough to net two Super Bowl appearances, one Super Bowl win, and the team continues to be a perennial presence in the postseason.

    The line is nowhere near as heinous as it's made out to be.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:24 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.
    Maelstrom787
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:49 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote::irishdrinkers:


    again 8+ years, and we have never ranked avg in pass blocking. Till he and them prove otherwise there is no reason to believe otherwise. ts not drive by when we have been saying and, they have been proving they have been bad for 8+ years.


    Have you ever considered how big of a role scheme plays into the offensive lines underperformance? Seattle is consistently one of the longest time-to-throw offenses in the league. I'm not saying the offensive line is good - just that they're given a comparatively difficult assignment in this offense.

    Notice that whenever Seattle has implemented a quicker passing game, the offensive line woes are far less dramatic. Personally, seeing as we have a famously elusive quarterback, I'm fine with the offensive line not being the highest priority. Much of the negative effects can be mitigated.

    Even with massive investment on the line to the detriment of other positions, I'm not sure they really could ever even be top 5 with a quarterback that takes his time like Russ does (be that through his own fault or through the fault of the scheme)



    Actually I have hence why most of my ire is at PC. He refuses to run what works best and forces them to do what he wants. So ate the needs to change, or he needs to get olineman who can pass protect in his system. Yet he constantly gets olineman known as good run blockers but bad pass blocker regardless of system.


    Deep passing game seems to work pretty well, considering Russell's efficiency is still elite despite the playbook being full of deep routes. Elite pass protectors don't grow on trees. If you can swing a deep passing attack because you have a great quarterback with excellent elusiveness, might as well. I'd rather see large investments go elsewhere, for the most part, especially towards the defense. I'm not saying they should switch the entire offense around just to make the offensive line look better, I'm just making a point that the scheme they're in makes them look worse. Black-and-white observations like the ad nauseum "known run blockers" mantra are not just lazy, but they do not come close to capturing the full picture of the situation.

    Either way, Pocic was a great center in college who was "known to be" a good pass blocker, and allowed very little pressure. I'm happy to see him get a shot at his primary position, where he has a better chance to flourish.

    The facts are this:

    - Regarding "protecting our investment" in Russ - he has never missed a game. He seems to do just fine behind this line, for the most part.

    - The offense continues to be an effective unit, despite being somewhat archaic in it's philosophy.

    - The same lines you're criticizing from earlier in Carroll's tenure ticked along well enough to net two Super Bowl appearances, one Super Bowl win, and the team continues to be a perennial presence in the postseason.

    The line is nowhere near as heinous as it's made out to be.


    yes now imagine if they could pass block, oh and our sack rate is working pretty well. Wilson has been the most hit, hurried, pressured and sacked Qb in the league since 2012, you want to keep rollign thte dice? I dont.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:51 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.


    again reading.. I said pass blocking. The rest of your post is more excuses for us having one of the worse pass blocking oline in the league every year/ FYI talk about not legible " don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok" LOL
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:39 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.



    I see what you did there, Mael. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:22 pm
  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.



    I see what you did there, Mael. :lol: :lol: :lol:



    I did to he did nothing but make excuses!
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:06 pm
  • John 6:3 Thou shalt have a stout line to protect thy son
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:50 pm
  • Centers don't block. That is just the long and short of it.

    Britt was a complete joke at tackle and guard. Why? Because he had to block someone on every play. Once he was moved to center and did not have to block every down and he was suddenly a good player.

    The same thing will happen with Pocic.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:53 pm
  • Hopefully he has the intelligence to make the line adjustments as well, something that's key for center.

    Unger and Tobeck (cant really count Kevin Mawae) are the best centers we've had imo, mostly because of their mental ability to make the proper line adjustments to go along with the physical tools.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:57 pm
  • Jerhawk wrote:Hopefully he has the intelligence to make the line adjustments as well, something that's key for center.

    Unger and Tobeck are the best centers we've had imo, mostly because of their mental ability to make the proper line adjustments to go along with the physical tools.



    Yarno wasn't so bad, also too bad we never held on to Kevin Mawae.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:56 pm
  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.



    I see what you did there, Mael. :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Flew over the heads of some, heh. Glad someone was there to catch it. ;)
    Maelstrom787
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:57 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Jerhawk wrote:Hopefully he has the intelligence to make the line adjustments as well, something that's key for center.

    Unger and Tobeck are the best centers we've had imo, mostly because of their mental ability to make the proper line adjustments to go along with the physical tools.



    Yarno wasn't so bad, also too bad we never held on to Kevin Mawae.


    Mawae, Hutch, Jones could have been the starting left side in 2004-2005
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:05 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Back to back Super Bowl appearances, while running the ball down people's throats. Those o-lines got work done. Agree to disagree that they have sucked for 8 years on that line.



    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.


    again reading.. I said pass blocking. The rest of your post is more excuses for us having one of the worse pass blocking oline in the league every year/ FYI talk about not legible " don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok" LOL



    :34853_doh:

    First off, yes, I know you said "pass blocking." You've said it probably hundreds of times just this offseason.

    Secondly, my post is hardly comprised of excuses. In fact, it's chiefly comprised of questions about what you would do, specifically, to fix the line. Conveniently for you, you ignored them and went straight to deflection.

    Well, I noticed, and I'd like to remind you still that I await your blueprint, oh great John63, hater of known run blockers.

    PS: Regarding the legibility matter... yeah, dude, that was kind of the joke. If you need a proofreader, I suggest Fiverr. You can get a good deal there.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:35 am
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:

    reading is fundamental I said pass blocking not run blocking. They were great run blockers. Problem is we need them to pass block too, and they have sucked at it. Never ranked in the top half of the league and over that 8 years avg ranging 26th


    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.

    John63 wrote:great now imagine how many SB we would have gone to and maybe won if we were not amongst the worse pass blocking teams in the league year in and year out


    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.


    again reading.. I said pass blocking. The rest of your post is more excuses for us having one of the worse pass blocking oline in the league every year/ FYI talk about not legible " don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok" LOL



    :34853_doh:

    First off, yes, I know you said "pass blocking." You've said it probably hundreds of times just this offseason.

    Secondly, my post is hardly comprised of excuses. In fact, it's chiefly comprised of questions about what you would do, specifically, to fix the line. Conveniently for you, you ignored them and went straight to deflection.

    Well, I noticed, and I'd like to remind you still that I await your blueprint, oh great John63, hater of known run blockers.

    PS: Regarding the legibility matter... yeah, dude, that was kind of the joke. If you need a proofreader, I suggest Fiverr. You can get a good deal there.


    I have already answered this before. You either change your system to account for your bad pass blocking ie quick passing or you find olineman who are known to be good pass blockers. We so far have done neither. We still run a system that relies on long routes and we still look for run blockers. Pretty simple, other teams manage to do it.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:39 am
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    I take issue with you lecturing others on the fundamentals of reading comprehension, considering your posts are hardly legible to begin with half the time and lack even a basic element of proofreading. Seriously, man. Simmer down with that crap.



    You're really going to move the goalposts so far back as to contend that an offensive line on a Super Bowl winning team was not adequate?

    At this point, it's becoming clear you look more at meaningless rankings than you do the overall result.

    Tell me, what would your specific plan be for the offensive line? Where would you take the resources from to allocate to the elite pass blockers that you seem to contend are abundantly available?

    This is a league where even potentially good tackles get decent contracts. Example: George Fant. Sure, the Jets overpaid, but even his value is fairly high. I don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok.


    again reading.. I said pass blocking. The rest of your post is more excuses for us having one of the worse pass blocking oline in the league every year/ FYI talk about not legible " don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok" LOL



    :34853_doh:

    First off, yes, I know you said "pass blocking." You've said it probably hundreds of times just this offseason.

    Secondly, my post is hardly comprised of excuses. In fact, it's chiefly comprised of questions about what you would do, specifically, to fix the line. Conveniently for you, you ignored them and went straight to deflection.

    Well, I noticed, and I'd like to remind you still that I await your blueprint, oh great John63, hater of known run blockers.

    PS: Regarding the legibility matter... yeah, dude, that was kind of the joke. If you need a proofreader, I suggest Fiverr. You can get a good deal there.


    I have already answered this before. You either change your system to account for your bad pass blocking ie quick passing or you find olineman who are known to be good pass blockers. We so far have done neither. We still run a system that relies on long routes and we still look for run blockers. Pretty simple, other teams manage to do it.


    Okay, so change the entire scheme solely for the purpose of having the offensive line rank higher? Got it.

    Again, really good pass blockers are not easy to find and generally come at a premium. What part of the team are you neglecting to sign these special and abundant known pass blockers?
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:45 am
  • If we were a team that featured a ton of drop back passing the argument might make sense. But we're not.

    The Seahawks depend on a balanced attack using play action passing, which requires a top run game. The team depends on that focus to give the QB and receivers an extra step off of the play action to get set up and execute.

    We really do emphasize run blocking over pass blocking in our O-line and there is a logical reason for it. It's also the reason we use a FB more than other teams around the league.
    sutz
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:33 pm
  • sutz wrote:If we were a team that featured a ton of drop back passing the argument might make sense. But we're not.

    The Seahawks depend on a balanced attack using play action passing, which requires a top run game. The team depends on that focus to give the QB and receivers an extra step off of the play action to get set up and execute.

    We really do emphasize run blocking over pass blocking in our O-line and there is a logical reason for it. It's also the reason we use a FB more than other teams around the league.



    That should scare you even more that given all you just said Wilson still has led the league in hits, hurries, pressures and sacks since 2012., and goes to my point we have done little to improve pass blocking and are playing with fire.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:34 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    again reading.. I said pass blocking. The rest of your post is more excuses for us having one of the worse pass blocking oline in the league every year/ FYI talk about not legible " don't think you liked George Fant, he was a knwon run blockar and bad pass blok" LOL



    :34853_doh:

    First off, yes, I know you said "pass blocking." You've said it probably hundreds of times just this offseason.

    Secondly, my post is hardly comprised of excuses. In fact, it's chiefly comprised of questions about what you would do, specifically, to fix the line. Conveniently for you, you ignored them and went straight to deflection.

    Well, I noticed, and I'd like to remind you still that I await your blueprint, oh great John63, hater of known run blockers.

    PS: Regarding the legibility matter... yeah, dude, that was kind of the joke. If you need a proofreader, I suggest Fiverr. You can get a good deal there.


    I have already answered this before. You either change your system to account for your bad pass blocking ie quick passing or you find olineman who are known to be good pass blockers. We so far have done neither. We still run a system that relies on long routes and we still look for run blockers. Pretty simple, other teams manage to do it.


    Okay, so change the entire scheme solely for the purpose of having the offensive line rank higher? Got it.

    Again, really good pass blockers are not easy to find and generally come at a premium. What part of the team are you neglecting to sign these special and abundant known pass blockers?


    No change the system because it matches what you have. You have a team built for quick passing attack and the best part is you can still run the ball as much as you do know, but you make it easier on the olineman and thus lessen QB being hit, hurried, sacked, and pressured. pretty simple,
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:09 pm
  • sdog1981 wrote:Centers don't block. That is just the long and short of it. Britt was a complete joke at tackle and guard. Why? Because he had to block someone on every play. Once he was moved to center and did not have to block every down and he was suddenly a good player. The same thing will happen with Pocic.

    There's a lot of truth to this, especially the comparison to Britt who had the same sort of lanky frame that Pocic does, and who also faced the same leverage issues at guard. At center, length becomes an asset because it allows our other linemen an extra few milliseconds of reaction time after the snap.

    If you re-watch the play where Brit was injured against the Bengals, he was completely out leveraged by Geno Atkins and thrown backwards into Dissly who was pulling around behind. Pocic might get beat like that occasionally against really good DTs, but the rest of the time he should look solid participating in double teams.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:40 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    sutz wrote:If we were a team that featured a ton of drop back passing the argument might make sense. But we're not.

    The Seahawks depend on a balanced attack using play action passing, which requires a top run game. The team depends on that focus to give the QB and receivers an extra step off of the play action to get set up and execute.

    We really do emphasize run blocking over pass blocking in our O-line and there is a logical reason for it. It's also the reason we use a FB more than other teams around the league.



    That should scare you even more that given all you just said Wilson still has led the league in hits, hurries, pressures and sacks since 2012., and goes to my point we have done little to improve pass blocking and are playing with fire.


    And yet somehow, we are still better than most of the rest of the league, including a lot of teams that invest in the quick passing game everyone covets. And we pull this stuff off every single year.

    If the fact that we haven't won every Super Bowl since 2014 is your only proof that the system isn't working, then every team out there except the Patriots is terrible, which isn't a workable conclusion given that there are very good teams out there that simply aren't winning.

    And when there are other explanations for the struggles like [i]having a bottom-five[i/] defense, blaming the philosophy of a top-five offense rings pretty hollow.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:42 am
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:

    :34853_doh:

    First off, yes, I know you said "pass blocking." You've said it probably hundreds of times just this offseason.

    Secondly, my post is hardly comprised of excuses. In fact, it's chiefly comprised of questions about what you would do, specifically, to fix the line. Conveniently for you, you ignored them and went straight to deflection.

    Well, I noticed, and I'd like to remind you still that I await your blueprint, oh great John63, hater of known run blockers.

    PS: Regarding the legibility matter... yeah, dude, that was kind of the joke. If you need a proofreader, I suggest Fiverr. You can get a good deal there.


    I have already answered this before. You either change your system to account for your bad pass blocking ie quick passing or you find olineman who are known to be good pass blockers. We so far have done neither. We still run a system that relies on long routes and we still look for run blockers. Pretty simple, other teams manage to do it.


    Okay, so change the entire scheme solely for the purpose of having the offensive line rank higher? Got it.

    Again, really good pass blockers are not easy to find and generally come at a premium. What part of the team are you neglecting to sign these special and abundant known pass blockers?


    No change the system because it matches what you have. You have a team built for quick passing attack and the best part is you can still run the ball as much as you do know, but you make it easier on the olineman and thus lessen QB being hit, hurried, sacked, and pressured. pretty simple,


    That doesn't track with your primary gripe in your posts found in these type of threads, which are centered around the personnel not specializing in run blocking. If your main solution is going to a quicker short game, that's cool, but that's nothing like what you've been repeating.

    Also, why not continue with the deep passing game if Russell's efficiency doesn't dip as much when he goes downfield? Again, seems your primary concern is less the result and more just centered around improving certain rankings. Russell's strength is his deep game, I say emphasize that as much as possible.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:14 am
  • This is a discussion focusing on how the business side is limiting our game.
    When you have multiple high salaried players and a decreasing salary cap there is no simple solution. But if there is one it is to have a guy like the one we pay the most money to.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:58 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    sutz wrote:If we were a team that featured a ton of drop back passing the argument might make sense. But we're not.

    The Seahawks depend on a balanced attack using play action passing, which requires a top run game. The team depends on that focus to give the QB and receivers an extra step off of the play action to get set up and execute.

    We really do emphasize run blocking over pass blocking in our O-line and there is a logical reason for it. It's also the reason we use a FB more than other teams around the league.



    That should scare you even more that given all you just said Wilson still has led the league in hits, hurries, pressures and sacks since 2012., and goes to my point we have done little to improve pass blocking and are playing with fire.


    And yet somehow, we are still better than most of the rest of the league, including a lot of teams that invest in the quick passing game everyone covets. And we pull this stuff off every single year.

    If the fact that we haven't won every Super Bowl since 2014 is your only proof that the system isn't working, then every team out there except the Patriots is terrible, which isn't a workable conclusion given that there are very good teams out there that simply aren't winning.

    And when there are other explanations for the struggles like [i]having a bottom-five[i/] defense, blaming the philosophy of a top-five offense rings pretty hollow.



    and yet we could be so much better and are one hit form being crap all do to what has been and until the prove otherwise is a bad pass blocking oline and system. and FYI last time we went beyond 2nd round of playoffs was.......2015.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:00 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    I have already answered this before. You either change your system to account for your bad pass blocking ie quick passing or you find olineman who are known to be good pass blockers. We so far have done neither. We still run a system that relies on long routes and we still look for run blockers. Pretty simple, other teams manage to do it.


    Okay, so change the entire scheme solely for the purpose of having the offensive line rank higher? Got it.

    Again, really good pass blockers are not easy to find and generally come at a premium. What part of the team are you neglecting to sign these special and abundant known pass blockers?


    No change the system because it matches what you have. You have a team built for quick passing attack and the best part is you can still run the ball as much as you do know, but you make it easier on the olineman and thus lessen QB being hit, hurried, sacked, and pressured. pretty simple,


    That doesn't track with your primary gripe in your posts found in these type of threads, which are centered around the personnel not specializing in run blocking. If your main solution is going to a quicker short game, that's cool, but that's nothing like what you've been repeating.

    Also, why not continue with the deep passing game if Russell's efficiency doesn't dip as much when he goes downfield? Again, seems your primary concern is less the result and more just centered around improving certain rankings. Russell's strength is his deep game, I say emphasize that as much as possible.



    Ahh l;et me try this again, we have olineman that are good to great run blockers, but really bad pass blockers. So you change to a quick hitting attack for passing making it easier on the olineman as they wil not have to hold block as long. pretty simple you can't pass block well for long make it, so they dont have to do it as long/
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:01 pm
  • Appyhawk wrote:This is a discussion focusing on how the business side is limiting our game.
    When you have multiple high salaried players and a decreasing salary cap there is no simple solution. But if there is one it is to have a guy like the one we pay the most money to.



    no not just the business side by the actual system side.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:32 pm
  • Max Unger was considered one of the best college centers in the draft, but for the first couple of years he played guard for the Hawks, and it’s hard to deny that he sucked. He couldn’t anchor well enough. Too light in the pants. Once he was back at his natural position he became a Pro Bowler.

    Britt was just as bad his first few years with Seattle, and I recall hearing Hawk fans say that we should cut him and move on. Once he became a center his career flourished.

    Pocic was just as highly rated in college as Unger, and has followed a similar path with the Hawks. I was not at all surprised to see him win the position, just as I won’t be surprised if he develops into a Pro Bowler. He has the tools he needs.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:12 pm
  • godawg wrote:Max Unger was considered one of the best college centers in the draft, but for the first couple of years he played guard for the Hawks, and it’s hard to deny that he sucked. He couldn’t anchor well enough. Too light in the pants. Once he was back at his natural position he became a Pro Bowler.

    Britt was just as bad his first few years with Seattle, and I recall hearing Hawk fans say that we should cut him and move on. Once he became a center his career flourished.

    Pocic was just as highly rated in college as Unger, and has followed a similar path with the Hawks. I was not at all surprised to see him win the position, just as I won’t be surprised if he develops into a Pro Bowler. He has the tools he needs.
    This.

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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:44 pm
  • Hoping to see it. Britt was a pleasant surprise, going from likely cut, pre-season, to Pro Bowler, by virtue of changing from G to Center. Anyone remember that, when Britt was viewed by some as a pre-season cut?

    Would love to see that from Pocic. For sure gotta know Pocic has been working his ass off to make it happen. Hope it lasts longer than the one season Pete tried the wing and a prayer dude at center for a couple games at the start of the season, and it didn't work out Anyone even remember that dude's name? I don't.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:49 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:So more of Wilson running for his life.


    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)

    Last edited by Sports Hernia on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Reason: No political posts in the main forum. If you want to make political statements take them to the politics forum.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:So more of Wilson running for his life.


    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" *mod edit*? :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)



    can you looked up how many times Russ was hurried in those 91 snaps? thx
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:53 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:So more of Wilson running for his life.


    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit*? :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:25 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:


    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    That was after 2 games, and you ignore the season stats of NO SACKS in 91 snaps??!@ Useless having a discussion of "facts" with you I see... :roll:

    Also you are ignoring he was best at his natural position, center.

    https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ethan-pocic/11813
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:50 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Jerhawk wrote:Hopefully he has the intelligence to make the line adjustments as well, something that's key for center.

    Unger and Tobeck are the best centers we've had imo, mostly because of their mental ability to make the proper line adjustments to go along with the physical tools.



    Yarno wasn't so bad, also too bad we never held on to Kevin Mawae.


    Blair Bush and Ray Donaldson were also highly regarded centers who were Seahawks. Seahawks have had a fair share of good luck at the center spot.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:27 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:


    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    Really? Pete Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, said that Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker and not a pass blocker?

    Link it. Go ahead. As I recall somewhat vividly, they were mainly high on Pocic because of his perceived versatility, but please, prove me wrong with a link.

    In the meantime, actual facts were provided to you. In response, you quoted an article from last year when he was playing an entirely different position. This thread is about Ethan Pocic -at center-, where he was an excellent lineman who allowed almost no pressure whatsoever in pass protection.

    Anyway, here's the Seattle Times article from when Pocic was drafted. Spoiler: it doesn't say "Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker not pass blocker according to PC who evccen said it when they got him"

    Bob Condotta wrote:And here is the analysis from Pro Football Focus: “Pocic does a lot of things well and his ability to make difficult reach blocks make him a fit in any scheme. He’s sound in pass protection and even dabbled at offensive tackle to add some versatility, though he’ll get a shot to stick at center where he looks like one of the best the draft has to offer.”

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ond-round/

    Doesn't sound like the dreaded "known run blocker" to me.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:11 am
  • 787 is correct. Pocic was actually explicitly acknowledged as a known deviation from PC's normal run blocker template for OL. He was called a technician rather than a road grader. This was all over the place.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:12 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    That was after 2 games, and you ignore the season stats of NO SACKS in 91 snaps??!@ Useless having a discussion of "facts" with you I see... :roll:

    Also you are ignoring he was best at his natural position, center.

    https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ethan-pocic/11813



    graded 22 you seem to focus on sacks, but guess what it was not a sack that injured Wilson a few years ago it was a hit. again graded 22 enough said
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:13 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    yeah becuz ethin pocic is a knwon run blocker abd not pass blok!

    Give it a rest. Pocic was a very good college center, let's see how he fares at his natural position.[/quotee]


    Ahh no I will not, and Pocic was blown up a lot last year in pass blocking so you give it a rest. The Fact is ethan was horrible in pass protection period


    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    Really? Pete Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, said that Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker and not a pass blocker?

    Link it. Go ahead. As I recall somewhat vividly, they were mainly high on Pocic because of his perceived versatility, but please, prove me wrong with a link.

    In the meantime, actual facts were provided to you. In response, you quoted an article from last year when he was playing an entirely different position. This thread is about Ethan Pocic -at center-, where he was an excellent lineman who allowed almost no pressure whatsoever in pass protection.

    Anyway, here's the Seattle Times article from when Pocic was drafted. Spoiler: it doesn't say "Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker not pass blocker according to PC who evccen said it when they got him"

    Bob Condotta wrote:And here is the analysis from Pro Football Focus: “Pocic does a lot of things well and his ability to make difficult reach blocks make him a fit in any scheme. He’s sound in pass protection and even dabbled at offensive tackle to add some versatility, though he’ll get a shot to stick at center where he looks like one of the best the draft has to offer.”

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ond-round/

    Doesn't sound like the dreaded "known run blocker" to me.


    graded 22 in pass blocking let help that SUCKS. Don't care how many games that si what we have as of now till we see something saying otherwise.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:14 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:787 is correct. Pocic was actually explicitly acknowledged as a known deviation from PC's normal run blocker template for OL. He was called a technician rather than a road grader. This was all over the place.



    a technician who graded a 22 in pass blocking. so at this point that is what we have a technician who graded 22 in pass blocking to date. Heck if it was 50 which is still bad at least that si something but 22.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:17 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    Really? Pete Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, said that Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker and not a pass blocker?

    Link it. Go ahead. As I recall somewhat vividly, they were mainly high on Pocic because of his perceived versatility, but please, prove me wrong with a link.

    In the meantime, actual facts were provided to you. In response, you quoted an article from last year when he was playing an entirely different position. This thread is about Ethan Pocic -at center-, where he was an excellent lineman who allowed almost no pressure whatsoever in pass protection.

    Anyway, here's the Seattle Times article from when Pocic was drafted. Spoiler: it doesn't say "Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker not pass blocker according to PC who evccen said it when they got him"

    Bob Condotta wrote:And here is the analysis from Pro Football Focus: “Pocic does a lot of things well and his ability to make difficult reach blocks make him a fit in any scheme. He’s sound in pass protection and even dabbled at offensive tackle to add some versatility, though he’ll get a shot to stick at center where he looks like one of the best the draft has to offer.”

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ond-round/

    Doesn't sound like the dreaded "known run blocker" to me.


    graded 22 in pass blocking let help that SUCKS. Don't care how many games that si what we have as of now till we see something saying otherwise.


    That's crap. You've been shown multiple things saying otherwise based on his experience at CENTER, which is the position we're discussing. Your whole "known run blocker" narrative on Ethan has been blown to shreds. Grading a lineman based on a PFF grade for 22 snaps at an entirely different position is... hmm. I don't want to insult you, I'll insult the premise though - it's really, really, really, really dumb.

    That would be the same thing as me finding a 22 snap sample size of a positively graded Ifedi game at right guard and saying it makes him a stud right tackle. It makes less than zero sense, and you know it.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:20 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:787 is correct. Pocic was actually explicitly acknowledged as a known deviation from PC's normal run blocker template for OL. He was called a technician rather than a road grader. This was all over the place.



    a technician who graded a 22 in pass blocking. so at this point that is what we have a technician who graded 22 in pass blocking to date. Heck if it was 50 which is still bad at least that si something but 22.


    It's based on 22 snaps. That's not even close to a full game.
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:22 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    Where do you get your "Facts" from *mod edit* :roll:

    Fact: 0 sacks allowed in 2019 in 91 snaps.

    (here is the last time he played center also)




    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    That was after 2 games, and you ignore the season stats of NO SACKS in 91 snaps??!@ Useless having a discussion of "facts" with you I see... :roll:

    Also you are ignoring he was best at his natural position, center.

    https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ethan-pocic/11813



    graded 22 you seem to focus on sacks, but guess what it was not a sack that injured Wilson a few years ago it was a hit. again graded 22 enough said


    And you seem to focus on 2 damn games. Anyone can get a bad matchup and a couple bad plays in 22 will drag the ranking down. Useless discussion, he also played injured last season. Point is....Wait and see if he sucks at center rather than puking all over the place...

    Between that and the warning....catch you all in another month. :pukeface:
    Seymour
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:22 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:

    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    Really? Pete Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, said that Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker and not a pass blocker?

    Link it. Go ahead. As I recall somewhat vividly, they were mainly high on Pocic because of his perceived versatility, but please, prove me wrong with a link.

    In the meantime, actual facts were provided to you. In response, you quoted an article from last year when he was playing an entirely different position. This thread is about Ethan Pocic -at center-, where he was an excellent lineman who allowed almost no pressure whatsoever in pass protection.

    Anyway, here's the Seattle Times article from when Pocic was drafted. Spoiler: it doesn't say "Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker not pass blocker according to PC who evccen said it when they got him"

    Bob Condotta wrote:And here is the analysis from Pro Football Focus: “Pocic does a lot of things well and his ability to make difficult reach blocks make him a fit in any scheme. He’s sound in pass protection and even dabbled at offensive tackle to add some versatility, though he’ll get a shot to stick at center where he looks like one of the best the draft has to offer.”

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ond-round/

    Doesn't sound like the dreaded "known run blocker" to me.


    graded 22 in pass blocking let help that SUCKS. Don't care how many games that si what we have as of now till we see something saying otherwise.


    That's crap. You've been shown multiple things saying otherwise based on his experience at CENTER, which is the position we're discussing. Your whole "known run blocker" narrative on Ethan has been blown to shreds. Grading a lineman based on a PFF grade for 22 snaps at an entirely different position is... hmm. I don't want to insult you, I'll insult the premise though - it's really, really, really, really dumb.

    That would be the same thing as me finding a 22 snap sample size of a positively graded Ifedi game at right guard and saying it makes him a stud right tackle. It makes less than zero sense, and you know it.


    its not cap it is his grade from his playing time as a pro, and he graded 22 all the stuff you guys are showing are form college or what people say. the FACT is he graded 22 as a pro. I mean what next you're going whip out his High school numbers? as a pro he graded 22 in pass protection done over. You can b!@ch about sample size all you want but that is all we have as a pro. he graded 22 maybe he will improve maybe not. As of now his Pro career he is a bad pass blocker. maybe that will chaneg we will see.
    John63
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:25 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:787 is correct. Pocic was actually explicitly acknowledged as a known deviation from PC's normal run blocker template for OL. He was called a technician rather than a road grader. This was all over the place.



    a technician who graded a 22 in pass blocking. so at this point that is what we have a technician who graded 22 in pass blocking to date. Heck if it was 50 which is still bad at least that si something but 22.


    It's based on 22 snaps. That's not even close to a full game.


    But its all we have, So what lets forget what we have as a pro and go back to college which means.....nothing. As a pro he sucks at pass blockign to date. period
    John63
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:27 pm
  • Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Seymour wrote:
    John63 wrote:

    He was known as a run blocker not pass blocker PC evccen said it when they got him

    "Ethan Pocic saw 22 snaps in pass protection as well, and earned a pass protection grade of 22."


    https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/16/pass-protection-remains-a-huge-issue-for-seahawks-after-2-games/


    That was after 2 games, and you ignore the season stats of NO SACKS in 91 snaps??!@ Useless having a discussion of "facts" with you I see... :roll:

    Also you are ignoring he was best at his natural position, center.

    https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ethan-pocic/11813



    graded 22 you seem to focus on sacks, but guess what it was not a sack that injured Wilson a few years ago it was a hit. again graded 22 enough said


    And you seem to focus on 2 damn games. Anyone can get a bad matchup and a couple bad plays in 22 will drag the ranking down. Useless discussion, he also played injured last season. Point is....Wait and see if he sucks at center rather than puking all over the place...

    Between that and the warning....catch you all in another month. :pukeface:


    and you seemed focused on what he did in college and practice. Let's see real Pro game work or college and practice....hmm Yeah sorry pro trumps college and practice. Till he proves otherwise his pro stats show he is bad in pass protection. He could get better and for Wilson's sake I hope so, but right now sorry graded 22 and is bad. Also yes he could have had a bad matchup and he could have had what was easy, and he sucked. Again REAL PRO grade 22. College and practice sorry mean little.
    John63
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:28 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Really? Pete Carroll, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, said that Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker and not a pass blocker?

    Link it. Go ahead. As I recall somewhat vividly, they were mainly high on Pocic because of his perceived versatility, but please, prove me wrong with a link.

    In the meantime, actual facts were provided to you. In response, you quoted an article from last year when he was playing an entirely different position. This thread is about Ethan Pocic -at center-, where he was an excellent lineman who allowed almost no pressure whatsoever in pass protection.

    Anyway, here's the Seattle Times article from when Pocic was drafted. Spoiler: it doesn't say "Ethan Pocic is a known run blocker not pass blocker according to PC who evccen said it when they got him"


    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ond-round/

    Doesn't sound like the dreaded "known run blocker" to me.


    graded 22 in pass blocking let help that SUCKS. Don't care how many games that si what we have as of now till we see something saying otherwise.


    That's crap. You've been shown multiple things saying otherwise based on his experience at CENTER, which is the position we're discussing. Your whole "known run blocker" narrative on Ethan has been blown to shreds. Grading a lineman based on a PFF grade for 22 snaps at an entirely different position is... hmm. I don't want to insult you, I'll insult the premise though - it's really, really, really, really dumb.

    That would be the same thing as me finding a 22 snap sample size of a positively graded Ifedi game at right guard and saying it makes him a stud right tackle. It makes less than zero sense, and you know it.


    its not cap it is his grade from his playing time as a pro, and he graded 22 all the stuff you guys are showing are form college or what people say. the FACT is he graded 22 as a pro. I mean what next you're going whip out his High school numbers? as a pro he graded 22 in pass protection done over. You can b!@ch about sample size all you want but that is all we have as a pro. he graded 22 maybe he will improve maybe not. As of now his Pro career he is a bad pass blocker. maybe that will chaneg we will see.


    He didn't grade 22 as a pro. He graded a 22 on a 22 snap sample size, which is about a 3rd of a full football game. It's a ridiculously low sample size, far too low to actually gain an understanding of a player. Not to mention, yet again, it was at an entirely different position than we're talking about currently. His most recent stuff at center is excellent college play showing near-best-in-nation pass blocking. You're being purposely obtuse, and if you honestly think Ethan Pocic has played 22 snaps as a pro, then you obviously have no authority on the subject.

    What an awful, nonsensical string of posts you've made in this thread.
    Maelstrom787
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Re: Ethan Pocic named starting center
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:31 pm
  • Just to be clear, I hope he comes in and well is at least avg I would be happy with. However, to date his REAL PRO play is bad in pass blocking.

    and FYI 28th https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-units-entering-the-2020-nfl-season


    and guess what they do it every year and every year we are near the bottom and every year that is where we end up. Form 2012-2015 I kept saying we will get better, but after 8 years till they prove it I don't buy it. And nothing in Pocics professional play shows him to be anything but bad in pass blocking
    John63
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