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The Herd "Seattle has the worst off. & def. lines in NFL

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  • Well...the Seahawks O-Line last year was pretty bad....and they didn't exactly add any stars to it in the offseason or any continuity.

    The Seahawks D-Line last year was also pretty bad...and the arguably the best and only impact player left to Tennessee. Once again with no real stars added to it in the offseason either.


    So for a sports analyst to make this bold prediction, I wouldn't find it very insulting and would love for the Hawks to prove it wrong but offseason doesn't say otherwise.
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  • harryjohnson wrote:And he's picking Atlanta. He says Ryan will own the Hawks. Put THAT on the billboard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C_PCh3BMKA

    Can’t believe anyone still listens to that clown.
    He seems to really like being the contrarian.
    Sports Hernia
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  • Addition by Subtraction. The offensive line is better without Ifedi. You see....the problem wasn't about letting Russ cook. The problem was about Russ being repeatedly forced to overcome Ifedi's unforced errors (pre snap penalties). Persistent "First and fifteen" is why Seattle's offense (and Russ) habitually started so slow.

    The Hawks actually spent the money that was set aside for resigning Clowney alternatively on offensive lineman. Indeed, once they decided to move on from Clowney's 20 mil price tag, they invested up front. No one can make an honest assessment about the wisdom of this until we see the offensive line in action. Including Cow Herd.

    As far as the defensive line goes, Clowney was a monster.....when he didn't have a hernia. In other words, he had significant impact for about 3 games. Meanwhile, Mayowa and Irvin combined for 15 sacks last year. The Seahawks had a total of 28. Clowney had 3 of them. That was Wagner, Wright, the defensive tackles, the infrequent blitzing safeties, the defensive end rotations, the passing down packages.....everything combined. The whole team........and Irvin/Mayowa combined for more than half that many sacks last season.

    I almost wish they would have kept Jacob Martin instead of dealing him for Clowney's one year rental. Martin put Mahomes on the ground early Thursday night. Not an easy thing to do. Just ask the vaunted 49er pass rushers. You know what? It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jacob Martin is on a future Seahawk roster. Pete has a thing for bringing guys back after they develop a little bit (ie. Michael Bennett and now Mayowa/Irvin) and just like Michael Bennett's prosperous return, I expect similar results from Irvin/Mayowa.

    The pundits, as usual, don't have any idea until they see the team in action.
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  • His take on the Seahawks lines isn’t necessarily a crazy one, and he’s talking about “betting”with the “points”.

    The other points he made aren’t unrealistic either.

    Homer in me says he’s going to lose his bet but I don’t think he’s being unreasonable in the slightest.
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  • Offensive line is a complete unknown. This is this first year that it is truly Solari's line. It's the first year he didn't have to plug in a bunch of Cable's reclamation projects all over the line. The Cable leftovers are guys that he feels are serviceable linemen.

    Do I think it will be a great line? No. Do I think it will be the best line we have had since 2012? Yes, I actually do. Probably not right away. With no pre-season, and no time working together in a real game, it may be pretty rusty for a bit. But, I do believe that this will be the most Solari line we have had, which is to say it will be a good, perfectly average, NFL line, which will be the best line Wilson has had since 2012.

    Addition by subtraction is the correct take. Addition by subtracting Cable, and all the terrible players he stuffed into our line.

    As far as the defensive line goes, yeah, I'm worried. Championships are won in the trenches, and I'm doubtful we have the D-line to go the distance.
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  • He's not wrong about the lines.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Both lines are an unknown right now . We haven't seen the team play yet . Sunday will show what the Hawks lines have or don't have . Hopefully they have improved from last season .
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    harryjohnson wrote:And he's picking Atlanta. He says Ryan will own the Hawks. Put THAT on the billboard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C_PCh3BMKA

    Can’t believe anyone still listens to that clown.
    He seems to really like being the contrarian.

    For what it’s worth, Cowherd is one of Russell Wilson’s biggest fans.
    Somos doces
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  • If you're not worried about the OL and DL both you're either not paying attention or a total Carroll Koolaid Junkie.
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  • I'm worried about our defensive tackle depth for sure. However, I think our offensive line will be much better than we've had in years. You can see that they're set to pass block better. They have quality running backs that will keep the run blocking looking very good. We stay out of third and long, and win third downs and games will be fun!
    nwHawk
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  • Anecdotally...

    If there is anything I have learned over the course of my 40 years of fandom, is that the Seahawks perpetually underwhelm on week one, regardless of how good they are on paper. Home. Away. Doesn't matter. Even when they win, they never cover... Cincinnati last year was a typical example.

    If we can rush the passer at a below (not a typo) average rate, I think we will have a great year. If we are 30th to 32th (which I'm afraid we may be), I think it is going to be a disappointing season (which for me means a wildcard first round exit).
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  • Somos doces wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    harryjohnson wrote:And he's picking Atlanta. He says Ryan will own the Hawks. Put THAT on the billboard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C_PCh3BMKA

    Can’t believe anyone still listens to that clown.
    He seems to really like being the contrarian.

    For what it’s worth, Cowherd is one of Russell Wilson’s biggest fans.

    But he’s negative and a contrarian about everything else.
    He’s still a clown IMHO. Not a fan of “the hot take” shows.
    Sports Hernia
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  • Cowherd is a homer. He's giving the hawks billboard material while simply stating what from the outside is common knowledge, and on the surface, accurate. Its smart on his part because if he is right, he can say I told you so and looks like a genius. But he knows the seahawks will be competitive anyway because they have Wilson who he adores... so he can heap praise on him like he has for years. If he is wrong, then he gets to hype up the brilliance of his home team's front office that consistently, under the radar, finds diamonds in the rough and when everyone else goes left, stubbornly swings right - and in doing so, routinely builds perennial contenders. He's creating his talking points for Monday and the rest of the season. He's just smart... 'he just is...' in my best cowherd voice.
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  • I hope he’s wrong, but I don’t fault anyone who holds that opinion right now. We’re gambling big time in the trenches.
    Rat
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  • This QB has won a Super Bowl with the #32 DVOA ranked offensive line in the league in adjusted sack rate, so while it isn't ideal, it's hard for me to get worked up.

    The DL is collegiate level.
    MontanaHawk05
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  • The O line during the RW era has never been great but Wilson doesn't require "great" - just reasonable.

    Unfortunately he hasn't always been given a reasonable line and I worry the accumulated hits/sacks/scrambles might take their toll regarding longer term durability.

    Give him a great line and he would have dominated this league that last few seasons and likely had at least one more SB win.

    As far as the D-line, it's a bit hit n miss. Lots of room for improvement, but the D overall has been hit and miss the last few seasons as well.

    We were a team with a lot of aging parts that were filled in with newbie parts most of which didn't really work out.

    The one mainstay has been Wilson.

    Without him we are a .500 at best team.

    Give him just a few more positive tools and he can lead us to the Promised Land yet again.

    Not sure that'll happen under Pete though.
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  • Mick063 wrote:Addition by Subtraction. The offensive line is better without Ifedi. You see....the problem wasn't about letting Russ cook. The problem was about Russ being repeatedly forced to overcome Ifedi's unforced errors (pre snap penalties). Persistent "First and fifteen" is why Seattle's offense (and Russ) habitually started so slow.

    The Hawks actually spent the money that was set aside for resigning Clowney alternatively on offensive lineman. Indeed, once they decided to move on from Clowney's 20 mil price tag, they invested up front. No one can make an honest assessment about the wisdom of this until we see the offensive line in action. Including Cow Herd.

    As far as the defensive line goes, Clowney was a monster.....when he didn't have a hernia. In other words, he had significant impact for about 3 games. Meanwhile, Mayowa and Irvin combined for 15 sacks last year. The Seahawks had a total of 28. Clowney had 3 of them. That was Wagner, Wright, the defensive tackles, the infrequent blitzing safeties, the defensive end rotations, the passing down packages.....everything combined. The whole team........and Irvin/Mayowa combined for more than half that many sacks last season.

    I almost wish they would have kept Jacob Martin instead of dealing him for Clowney's one year rental. Martin put Mahomes on the ground early Thursday night. Not an easy thing to do. Just ask the vaunted 49er pass rushers. You know what? It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jacob Martin is on a future Seahawk roster. Pete has a thing for bringing guys back after they develop a little bit (ie. Michael Bennett and now Mayowa/Irvin) and just like Michael Bennett's prosperous return, I expect similar results from Irvin/Mayowa.

    The pundits, as usual, don't have any idea until they see the team in action.
    If our DL serious under perform for a few games , Pete might, just might bring Bennett back .... Hope we won't got to that situation

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    toffee
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  • Colin Cowherd is a piece of garbage. He's so worried about "making it" and appeasing his east coast bosses that he's purposely decided to be contrarian to anything Seattle or pnw. He specifically chooses topics about Seattle or the pnw to be against to try to sell his brand. He's a complete loser.
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  • I think Pocic/Lewis/Shell will be upgrades.

    DL has better depth at Ends, less at DT, but Collier and Green will go inside on passing downs. we'll see if that strategy pays off
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  • DJrmb wrote:Colin Cowherd is a piece of garbage. He's so worried about "making it" and appeasing his east coast bosses that he's purposely decided to be contrarian to anything Seattle or pnw. He specifically chooses topics about Seattle or the pnw to be against to try to sell his brand. He's a complete loser.

    I used to think Colin was a good analyst but at some point he just became a distinct hater.

    Although, the Seahawks have flaws, his take on Seattle is just ridiculous at times.

    He used to be a good listen but he has become unbearable.

    Not cause he disagrees with me but he cannot provide logical justification to any of his claims.

    Remember when he said Wilson will play for another franchise?

    Although that may eventually take place, it won’t be because of his reasons.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • I know some here love to crap on any negative thing pointed at the hawks, but he is right. As it stands now both line are at best question marks. Nothing I have read or seen says they are better than last year and both were bad. The whole delusion that indefi was the problem on the oline fails to take into account other's on the oline ranked horrible in pass blocking as well. I hope it works out but after 8 year so hoping for avg pass blocking I have little faith.
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  • You guys are weird, so if he says something negative he is now a hater? The guy is so in love with Russell Wilson, just as much as me...The guy was born and raised here and went to college here....Im pretty sure he is just a critical Seahawk fan.
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  • Addition by subtraction works for the OLine. Gone are Ifedi, Hunt, and God Love him, Fluker.

    Pocic with actual reps, Damien, and Anybody are better than last year.

    DLine. Jarran Reed all 16 games benefits Poona. Then we had Clowney and....?

    Irvin and Mayowa, plus Jamal Adams, a confident Tre Flowers, Quille in a contract year, and Quandre Diggs will be the HELP! the DLine needs to "look" better this year.

    So worst I the NFL? Maybe. Better than last year? Without a doubt.

    But like mentioned above, Week 1 is always a toss up. :snack:
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  • Except for Brown it’s all Joes and no Pros On either line until they show different. To me it is sheer incompetence what they have done on the lines this offseason but I hope I am wrong.
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  • I still can't believe we didnt get Everson Griffin, would have only cost us about 7 mil :34853_doh: :34853_doh:
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  • did we do something in the off season to improve the lines besides get rid of false start Ifedi that I missed? He's not wrong far as I can see, especially on the defensive side. It starts in the trenches, this coaching staff used to understand this...
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  • How many times did Ifedi turn 3rd and 2 into 3rd and 7? Drive-killing penalties like that are CRUCIAL. Especially when combined with Pete's game plan of winning close games. Letting Ifedi go is a big upgrade. My biggest concern with the Oline is the lack of time to gel.
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  • Somebody needs to blow up his Twitter after what we all just witnessed.


    GoHawks
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  • So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.


    But we owned the Falcons, Matt Ryan didn't own us.
    He's already wrong on the one thing he said that can be determined in one game?

    And let's be honest, while our o and d line might not be great (hope they are of course) it's a ridiculous expectation that we'll be THE worst in NFL. He is wrong in everything he said.

    His reverse homerism is showing.
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  • John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.



    Trying to be positive because my expectations were low they looked good. The penalties have to stop.
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  • It went pretty well.

    Pocic/Lewis/Shell first time playing together with no preseason. Going up from here.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.


    The run game wasn't good for sure, on the passing plays, who was the biggest liability in this game?

    I didn't watch but heard that poccic did ok, Shell had problems in first quarter? And there were some penalties in the 4th. Who gave up the most pressure?

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    toffee
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.


    The run game wasn't good for sure, on the passing plays, who was the biggest liability in this game?

    I didn't watch but heard that poccic did ok, Shell had problems in first quarter? And there were some penalties in the 4th. Who gave up the most pressure?

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    toffee
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.


    They played well enough to allow Russ to dial up 38 points. Methinks thou doth protest too much.
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  • I tell you what, for a terrible offensive line,that screen play to Carson was a thing of beauty. Would have been 6 from anywhere on the field.

    Oh, and 4th-and-6, when it HAS to be a pass, our OL gave Wilson time to hit Metcalf deep. So there's that.
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  • You manage your roster around a salary cap. For that reason, it is impossible to have an all pro at every position.

    I would say that having an all pro at Safety, Mike, and Quarterback is sufficient for a winning formula. Then it is a matter of getting just enough competency from the remaining contracts and position groups. Bang for the buck. They don't have to be the best at their position. They just have to be worth their contract. It is about the sum being greater than the parts.
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  • Mick063 wrote:You manage your roster around a salary cap. For that reason, it is impossible to have an all pro at every position.

    I would say that having an all pro at Safety, Mike, and Quarterback is sufficient for a winning formula. Then it is a matter of getting just enough competency from the remaining contracts and position groups. Bang for the buck. They don't have to be the best at their position. They just have to be worth their contract. It is about the sum being greater than the parts.

    I look at it this way: Wilson's mobility and innate ability to avoid rushers devalues the necessity of a world-class OL. It goes from a must-have to a nice-to-have.

    If we didn't have Wilson we would need a better OL, but we have Wilson, so we don't. I'm not particularly happy that it's an all-eggs-in-one-basket approach, but your point about salary cap and managing expenses is quite valid, and Wilson has proven to be very resilient.

    So the people who say our OL isn't great are correct, as are the people who say that without Wilson we're a .500 team. But because we have Wilson, both of those arguments are moot.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:I tell you what, for a terrible offensive line,that screen play to Carson was a thing of beauty. Would have been 6 from anywhere on the field.

    Oh, and 4th-and-6, when it HAS to be a pass, our OL gave Wilson time to hit Metcalf deep. So there's that.

    They had a couple of good moments, but overall they had more poor moments. Shell in particular was really struggling today. Wilson also bailed them out a few times yet with his mobility. In the run game they got zero push no matter who was running it. The one bright spot today was the rookie who killed it on the screen play, and he also had a nice block in the run game where he laid his guy out.

    Overall it wasn't a good showing here though. We ran a more quick hitting pass game, yet Wilson still was under duress quite a bit today even with a plan that was catered towards getting rid of the ball quickly. This line is going to be a major problem going forward. On the bright side the rookie looked like the best lineman out there today.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:I tell you what, for a terrible offensive line,that screen play to Carson was a thing of beauty. Would have been 6 from anywhere on the field.

    Oh, and 4th-and-6, when it HAS to be a pass, our OL gave Wilson time to hit Metcalf deep. So there's that.

    They had a couple of good moments, but overall they had more poor moments. Shell in particular was really struggling today. Wilson also bailed them out a few times yet with his mobility. In the run game they got zero push no matter who was running it. The one bright spot today was the rookie who killed it on the screen play, and he also had a nice block in the run game where he laid his guy out.

    Overall it wasn't a good showing here though. We ran a more quick hitting pass game, yet Wilson still was under duress quite a bit today even with a plan that was catered towards getting rid of the ball quickly. This line is going to be a major problem going forward. On the bright side the rookie looked like the best lineman out there today.
    That’s what I saw as well.

    We may be able to prosper with lower echelon pass blocking but they have to be able to at least run block adequately and I didn’t see it.
    hawk45
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.


    They played well enough to allow Russ to dial up 38 points. Methinks thou doth protest too much.



    against a not great defense, but better than I expected but again my expectations for the lines are low
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    John63 wrote:So based on today's game, he could be right. However outside of stupid penalties the oline was better than I expected. So we will see.

    The offensive line did not play well. There was a lot of pressure on Wilson, and our run game was getting zero push. They did not play well.


    They played well enough to allow Russ to dial up 38 points. Methinks thou doth protest too much.



    against a not great defense, but better than I expected but again my expectations for the lines are low


    I believe you will find Atlanta among the top 10 of defenses in the league this year.
    Appyhawk
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  • The run game Quinn knows is our heart and soul on offense typically and would sell out to stop it, we have a passing game to offset it now.

    Give them credit for taking away a portion of the offense, give our guys credit for knowing he would do it and dialing up a passing attack.
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  • Whatever cred 'the Herd" had prior to today, I would think they're scraping the barrel to find it now.
    Appyhawk
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:Can’t believe anyone still listens to that clown.
    He seems to really like being the contrarian.

    TBH, you're the one being rather contrarian, lol. Colin Cowherd throws Wilson a lot of love fairly consistently.
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  • If we grade Cowherd on a curve, he's a lot better than most other shows out there. Even if you dislike him.
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  • Threedee wrote:If we grade Cowherd on a curve, he's a lot better than most other shows out there. Even if you dislike him.


    You begin alluding to an important point here: listeners get to grade Cowherd on his evaluation ability just like he grades the Seahawks on their play, even before they take the field.

    Perhaps someone who listens to a lot of sport radio can give a prediction of how Cowherd will do this year compared to others of his species in the commentary business. We can make a tweet or Instagram and send it his way. Tell him people will stop listening if he doesn't turn it around.

    Then, actually stop listening. :2thumbs:
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