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S. Griffin questions....

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S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:24 pm
  • I’m a fan, love the story of the brothers.


    IMHO, Griffin did not meet expectations today, he’s now a veteran on a good backfield squad.


    Was it rust, jitters, bad play, or “other”?
    pmedic920
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:26 pm
  • Missing the killer instinct...not much nasty for a #1 cb
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:29 pm
  • Great play on the deep ball to Julio, when it really counted.
    Griff gives up more than I like but he also comes up big. He be all right.

    How bout Blair and Lano today? Huge plays. Adams as advertised, Where was Diggs?
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:30 pm
  • First game, no preseason, little pressure on qb. He was fine lets see how he is over the couple of games.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:32 pm
  • I didn't think he was terrible, but I certainly hope he's more consistent as the season progresses.
    Rat
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:34 pm
  • Rat wrote:I didn't think he was terrible, but I certainly hope he's more consistent as the season progresses.


    I didn’t think he was terrible either in spite of my criticisms.


    Point is, he’s in a #1 spot, should we be expecting more than “not terrible”?
    pmedic920
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:35 pm
  • I thought he was fine. ATL has excellent receivers and a top QB. Imagine what ATL fans are saying about their top CB after getting burned by Lockett and Metcalf repeatedly.

    Nobody got beat deep which is how Carroll asks his CBs to play. Well except for the pass where Adams took out Griffin.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:43 pm
  • Look....Just good enough does not cut it for a Cornerback # 1. I've always felt he was a CB 2 and not a CB 1. I could not believe it when there was talk floating around about a contract extension in the $15 million range. He is not worth that kind of money. Especially when we need to extend Jamal Adams and possibly Quandre Diggs. Yes, Shaq had that pass deflection in the second half which was a good play. But he had several bad plays and even missed tackles due to not wrapping up. Plus.....I think there is unspoken pressure to keep his twin on the team which would take a valuable roster spot. I always felt spending a 5th round draft pick on Shaquem was a wasted pick. I do not think any other team would take him in the draft except as a possible 7th rounder. Let him play out his contract and move on.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:46 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Rat wrote:I didn't think he was terrible, but I certainly hope he's more consistent as the season progresses.


    I didn’t think he was terrible either in spite of my criticisms.


    Point is, he’s in a #1 spot, should we be expecting more than “not terrible”?

    On the other hand Dunbar played a really nice game.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:54 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Rat wrote:I didn't think he was terrible, but I certainly hope he's more consistent as the season progresses.


    I didn’t think he was terrible either in spite of my criticisms.


    Point is, he’s in a #1 spot, should we be expecting more than “not terrible”?


    I agree. We'll definitely need more from him if Jamal Adams is going to somehow be our best pass rusher.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:54 pm
  • John63 wrote:First game, no preseason, little pressure on qb. He was fine lets see how he is over the couple of games.


    You sound like the knight in Monty Pythons Holy Grail. You know...Its only a flesh wound?? To say he is "fine" is a gross exaggeration. 4 years in he still can't wrap up and continues to take poor angles to the receiver after the catch. Those really aren't things you need preseason games to shore up. He has been bad at them from day one. The coverage scheme works when they limit YAC. Thats not Griffen's forte. He will be gone after this season.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:57 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Rat wrote:I didn't think he was terrible, but I certainly hope he's more consistent as the season progresses.


    I didn’t think he was terrible either in spite of my criticisms.


    Point is, he’s in a #1 spot, should we be expecting more than “not terrible”?

    On the other hand Dunbar played a really nice game.


    Yeah, barely heard Dunbar's name today, which is the best you can ask for from a corner. We owe a nice gift basket to the prosecutor who decided to not bring charges on him.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:19 pm
  • Dunbar gave up some catches in the first half but had a solid second half. Griffin was more solid in the first half and struggled a bit more in the second half.

    I didn’t think anyone was terrible given they were asked to not give up anything deep.

    Some people seem to think you can play sticky like the good old days and you can’t. Coverage is a no no in today’s NFL. Best you can do is try to stay in range and not let guys get by you.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:24 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:Dunbar gave up some catches in the first half but had a solid second half. Griffin was more solid in the first half and struggled a bit more in the second half.

    I didn’t think anyone was terrible given they were asked to not give up anything deep.

    Some people seem to think you can play sticky like the good old days and you can’t. Coverage is a no no in today’s NFL. Best you can do is try to stay in range and not let guys get by you.


    Fair but....

    Coverage is one thing.

    Being out of position to make plays, and poor tackling technique is another 2things.


    How did you see him doing in the other aspects of his game aside from “coverage”?
    pmedic920
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:40 pm
  • Definitely not a CB1 performance. He was JAG out there. At this point I don’t think he’s a CB1, period.
    hawk45
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:42 pm
  • He was a liability out there. Missed assignments and getting burnt all over the place. Maybe they should switch him and Dunbar.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:46 pm
  • Jerhawk wrote:He was a liability out there. Missed assignments and getting burnt all over the place. Maybe they should switch him and Dunbar.
    I hope they do.

    One of his best showings was as CB2 with a real CB1 (Sherman) opposite. He’s been underwhelming since.
    hawk45
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:11 pm
  • He's a pedestrian player and I believe he's hit his ceiling. I honestly doubt he receives any extension from the team.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:37 pm
  • hawk45 wrote:Definitely not a CB1 performance. He was JAG out there. At this point I don’t think he’s a CB1, period.

    He’s not a #1 CB but is a solid #2 on his good days. He had an absolutely horrible PI call against him Late in the 4th.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:15 pm
  • He was number 1 at the end of last year, with Dunbar on the roster he really is relegated as the number 2, rolls are changing, a Offense will look at both and probably default to Griffin over Dunbar to challange.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:42 pm
  • Wow. Tell me a corner that's going to look good against Jones and Ridley?

    We were really solid in the secondary today. I really liked that we contested a bunch of balls and that there was seldom any run after catch.

    Griffin's fine. I'm really looking forward to game 3-4 when some of the communication glitches we saw get worked out.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:57 pm
  • Off topic but how did Flowers do?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:44 pm
  • Own The West wrote:Wow. Tell me a corner that's going to look good against Jones and Ridley?

    We were really solid in the secondary today. I really liked that we contested a bunch of balls and that there was seldom any run after catch.

    Griffin's fine. I'm really looking forward to game 3-4 when some of the communication glitches we saw get worked out.


    Totally THIS. Griffin may have been underwhelming, but he and the secondary did enough against (arguably) the NFL's #1 hardest-to-stop QB and WR combo and one of the league's best passing games. And that without all that much of a consistent pass rush on Ryan.

    He's a very serviceable #2 CB and we will need him to come up big on many plays for the Hawks to go deep into the playoffs. Someone was pointing out we were down 6 DBs during SB49, so every decent or better DB is a valuable asset; we will need all of our depth there.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:00 pm
  • Griffen is basically filling in for when Dunbar is fully up to speed anyway. He did fine.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:32 pm
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Own The West wrote:Wow. Tell me a corner that's going to look good against Jones and Ridley?

    We were really solid in the secondary today. I really liked that we contested a bunch of balls and that there was seldom any run after catch.

    Griffin's fine. I'm really looking forward to game 3-4 when some of the communication glitches we saw get worked out.


    Totally THIS. Griffin may have been underwhelming, but he and the secondary did enough against (arguably) the NFL's #1 hardest-to-stop QB and WR combo and one of the league's best passing games. And that without all that much of a consistent pass rush on Ryan.

    He's a very serviceable #2 CB and we will need him to come up big on many plays for the Hawks to go deep into the playoffs. Someone was pointing out we were down 6 DBs during SB49, so every decent or better DB is a valuable asset; we will need all of our depth there.


    And that is my issue with him. He is serviceable, not elite. He is not an elite #1 cornerback. There was talk about an extension worth 15 million a year. He is not worth even 10 million a year. You can get serviceable players at a better contract number. Also, I think there is the unspoken elephant in the room. This> He has made it clear that he wants to play with his twin.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:42 pm
  • If he starts giving up numbers against team without Julio I'll be concerned. Julio has shredded our D gong back to the good old days with Sherm and Co. I didn't think today was that different.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:47 pm
  • The Falcons are one of the best passing teams in NFL for the past decade...

    Can we not put Griffin head on the guillotine just yet...We won the game, he had some great plays and some mishaps. Its Julio Jones & Ridley.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:49 pm
  • Griffin is JAG. I can't see them giving him big money when his deal is up.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:52 pm
  • He had 1 trash year and one great year.

    He looks like a #2 CB to me at best. I will gladly eat crow if wrong i truly hope I am wrong. He is not a gamechanger.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:04 pm
  • People have such short memories. Griffin was beasting last year and good for breaking up all kinds of potentially big game-breaking passes right when we needed them. A drive-ending machine.

    He did regress towards the end of last year, and he did not look great out there today, but like someone else said, show me a corner not named 2014 Richard Sherman who would look good against Julio and Ridley with zero pass rush helping him out.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:14 pm
  • I don't think he's strong enough to cover elite receivers like Julio, but he can tackle them after the catch.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:28 pm
  • Even the prime LOB gave up some big days to Matt Ryan and Julio Jones. Today we were playing soft defense in most of the second half due to our big lead, generated in part by a good defensive showing in the first half. Don't let the stats mislead you in this case.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:53 am
  • So you have Diggs, Dunbar, Adams, Griffin all in your secondary, Wilson as you QB and Carson coming up on a Contract as well. How much did Ramsey as a #1 sign for ? If you get Griffin on a reasonable deal you do it. Pete isn't going to be here forever and soon the flow of DB's will come from someone else's evaluation.

    You won't get a Veteran Cheaper then him most likely and unless you can evaluate guys like this F.O. you need a high pick to burn on one.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:38 am
  • Griffin has lazy tendencies. Bad angles, failure to wrap up, etc. --not just this game either. Honestly, sometimes he just looks lackadaisical---like a player who is taking plays off. I expected more from him, but it is becoming obvious that he is not who we thought he would be.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:02 am
  • vigilantgrrl wrote:And that is my issue with him. He is serviceable, not elite. He is not an elite #1 cornerback. There was talk about an extension worth 15 million a year. He is not worth even 10 million a year. You can get serviceable players at a better contract number. Also, I think there is the unspoken elephant in the room. This> He has made it clear that he wants to play with his twin.


    Same. On the whole, Quill is serviceable, missed a few tackles yesterday but well in that serviceable range still--but not elite. I'd be surprised and would disagree with any extension in the 15m range, because he's more a 7-9 m guy to me and he is, by age and seniority, near the top of his production.

    Quem's production last year otoh just wasn't enough of what you'd expect from someone being on the team for that long. There are just so many "special teams aces" that are necessary, and most of them are rookies that bounced there in the first phase of development. They elevated Quem to the depth chart behind Kendricks, but when Kendricks got hurt they looked more to newer rooks. Quem's simply too small to be effective against healthy OL and didn't really have a role last year and usually when he got one, he didn't exactly wow people.

    Quem being put on the PS is more a function of using the new pandemic-informed PS rules. It's an acknowledgment of where the team is with both brothers: It simply did not work out to keep Quem on the 53 and if Quill wants to stay then it'll be as an ok corner who like other ok corners doesn't have leverage in himself to keep another person on.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:14 am
  • I’ve always thought Griffin was slightly overrated but yesterdays matchup is probably the toughest the secondary will see all year. Julio, Ridley, Hurst, Gage etc along with Ryan is arguably the best in the league or in the conversation. People don’t realize how good Ridley is. I think This group will get better and figure it out. If we can generate pressure with our front 4 that would allow Adams to help out more on the back end too.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:50 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:Dunbar gave up some catches in the first half but had a solid second half. Griffin was more solid in the first half and struggled a bit more in the second half.

    I didn’t think anyone was terrible given they were asked to not give up anything deep.

    Some people seem to think you can play sticky like the good old days and you can’t. Coverage is a no no in today’s NFL. Best you can do is try to stay in range and not let guys get by you.


    Fair but....

    Coverage is one thing.

    Being out of position to make plays, and poor tackling technique is another 2things.


    How did you see him doing in the other aspects of his game aside from “coverage”?


    Missed 2 tackles. One he should have made. One he was up against someone with pretty good moves in space.

    He's no Bobby Wagner, I'll give you that.

    But game one without any "tackle to ground" reps in preseason.

    And to me Griffen is a LCB not a CB1. I don't think we play that way. Teams with clear CB1 would constantly have that CB lined up on Jones. We play sides.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:53 am
  • thegameq wrote:Griffin has lazy tendencies. Bad angles, failure to wrap up, etc. --not just this game either. Honestly, sometimes he just looks lackadaisical---like a player who is taking plays off. I expected more from him, but it is becoming obvious that he is not who we thought he would be.



    What did we think he would be? Third round picks are lucky to be league average players if not backups. If he was a high first rounder, I'd be disappointed. But he's a small school 3rd rounder. The fact that's he's pretty good is gravy.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:23 am
  • chris98251 wrote:So you have Diggs, Dunbar, Adams, Griffin all in your secondary, Wilson as you QB and Carson coming up on a Contract as well. How much did Ramsey as a #1 sign for ? If you get Griffin on a reasonable deal you do it. Pete isn't going to be here forever and soon the flow of DB's will come from someone else's evaluation.

    You won't get a Veteran Cheaper then him most likely and unless you can evaluate guys like this F.O. you need a high pick to burn on one.

    2021 FAs
    Dunbar
    Griffin
    Carson
    Ford
    Wright

    2022 FAs
    Adams
    Dickson
    Flowers
    Reed
    Diggs
    Dissly
    Lockett
    Brown

    Wilson's not up for FA until 2024; Metcalf & Wag's an FA in 2023.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:41 am
  • Griffin is not an elite corner.

    Are people just spoiled or looking for something to be upset about?

    Expecting him to replace someone like a Sherman, who is probably going to the HOF, is madness.

    Griffin is above average and serviceable. He is a corner that can cover 1s. He isn't a shutdown corner, won't lock anyone down, and shouldn't be expected to.

    He did a decent job considering the opponent.

    It is weird because you would think Seahawk fans would remember some of the corners we had. But it makes sense because I would want to block them from memory too. For every Patrick Hunter, Shawn Springs, and Trufant - we had some terrible ones.

    Griffen is what he is. A guy that will do a decent job against even the good #1s. Decent, not spectacular. He will also do a good job on taking guys down in space, but will miss a few tackles - especially when he forgets to wrap up. But he isn't terrible or worth calling out as a problem.

    He is a serviceable, reasonably consistent corner that can cover 1s and 2s. How is that a problem?
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm
  • He had a rough game yesterday but against Jones etc that could be expected.

    The missed tackles and not wrapping up at points was probably the most concerning part.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:36 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:I’m a fan, love the story of the brothers.


    IMHO, Griffin did not meet expectations today, he’s now a veteran on a good backfield squad.


    Was it rust, jitters, bad play, or “other”?


    Outside of Adams the whole secondary was garbage.
    Quinton Dunbar was the lowest grade at 40.6 (35.6 in coverage). Marquise Blair was second-worst at 44.9 (40.6 in coverage). Shaquill Griffin third-worst 52.1 (49.7). Quandre fourth-worst 53.8 (52.3). Tre fifth-worst 54.7 (53.5).
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:44 pm
  • Adams missed a few tackles yesterday too, but no one is even mentioning those. Who on our team DIDN'T miss a few tackles yesterday? Every member of our secondary did on multiple occasions. But they covered for each other and overall did a good job. The big exception was that late Falcon TD where Adams obliterated Griff leaving Julio on his lonesome in the end zone. Julio is Julio because he burns every secondary in the league. That Falcon crew is not a good example from which to take a critical view of any of our guys. They WON with margin for error.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:46 pm
  • The problem is the kind of money he would want in an extension. I could go along with the suggestion of 7-9 million a year....but he is not worth more than that. We need to break open the bank for an impact player like Adams. We also need to see how Dunbar works out. It might come down to Dunbar vs. Griffen for the extension. I would like to see if Flowers takes a step up this year. I have not given up on him. As far as Shaquem, I am fine with him on the practice squad this year.....but if Shaquill is going to get extended he needs to know that we will probably move on from Shaquem.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
  • sammyc521 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:So you have Diggs, Dunbar, Adams, Griffin all in your secondary, Wilson as you QB and Carson coming up on a Contract as well. How much did Ramsey as a #1 sign for ? If you get Griffin on a reasonable deal you do it. Pete isn't going to be here forever and soon the flow of DB's will come from someone else's evaluation.

    You won't get a Veteran Cheaper then him most likely and unless you can evaluate guys like this F.O. you need a high pick to burn on one.

    2021 FAs
    Dunbar
    Griffin
    Carson
    Ford
    Wright

    2022 FAs
    Adams
    Dickson
    Flowers
    Reed
    Diggs
    Dissly
    Lockett
    Brown

    Wilson's not up for FA until 2024; Metcalf & Wag's an FA in 2023.


    I said Wilson is your QB and didn't expand on it but your paying his salary affecting the rest of who you sign.
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:50 pm
  • vigilantgrrl wrote:The problem is the kind of money he would want in an extension. I could go along with the suggestion of 7-9 million a year....but he is not worth more than that. We need to break open the bank for an impact player like Adams. We also need to see how Dunbar works out. It might come down to Dunbar vs. Griffen for the extension. I would like to see if Flowers takes a step up this year. I have not given up on him. As far as Shaquem, I am fine with him on the practice squad this year.....but if Shaquill is going to get extended he needs to know that we will probably move on from Shaquem.


    I think he is suffering a bit from being the 'best' of the 'bridge' guys in the void that was between the LOB defenses of old and what looks to be a return to respectability under Adams, Wagner, et al. He was the heralded understudy to Richard, had praise heaped on him and then 'developed' in year two as part of what i call the 'nice guy' , antithesis of what the LOB was, defense - Bobby, KJ, McDougald, Reed. All great players (Wagner obviously HOF) but all quiet, lead by example / build guys up behind the scenes. His two previous years were characterized by the fall of the LOB (ET 3 and Sherm were jaded), and this weird purgatory state the defense was in last year. Kid grew up in that. He doesnt have the aggressive, 'dog' mentality. And where Bobby and KJ can go about their business quietly and still destroy the opposition with their experience and skill, Griff i think took on the persona of the D's leadership over that period but without the killer instinct. It remains to be seen whether the old school 'Dog' aggression that Adams has re-instilled can take root in the young guy. he might just be more of a 'finesse' CB, that lacks the killer edge that typically characterizes PC defenses. he was the best of what we had. We will see if he can rise to what looks like a new bar.

    And i disagree that he should get a pass because he was up against great wr's. He lacked aggression on a few occasions making tackles and just seemed to be a step wrong a few times. Just wasn't with it the entire time is what it seemed. And i dont even necessarily fault him for the bust on the TD.

    If i were playing psychiatrist (and i'm not - dont even play one on tv) i would say he is still a little caught up in being the guy that replaced Richard Sherman and that that was his calling card because he was often a bright spot on an average at-best defense and woeful secondary. You can't live on image. He has the skill, but Ballers Ball.
    keasley45
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:13 pm
  • To me the story on this is somewhat exaggerated, ATL was playing catch-up ball and the the D bent but didn’t break.

    Wow, I thought Griffin didn’t play badly at all and disagree with the negative spin. Dunbar on the other hand left a good deal to be desired but perhaps he’s just getting used to his new team. Thought Adams was amazingly good and Diggs Also had a good game and a late INT. Both Dunbar and Hill got beaten over their heads which is a big no no. Atlanta has darn good WRs and they were kept off the scoreboard until late in the game.

    All in all they were not bad collectively when it counted.

    Lots of time to fix the pass D. Lots of talent here to have this happen.
    jammerhawk
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Re: S. Griffin questions....
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:26 pm
  • The problem is that the Lambs reset the salary w Ramsey contract.

    I think the seahawks will take either Dunbar or Griffin. whoever takes the lower salary.

    I dont see us pay no more then 10 million. Magic number for the Seahawks is probably 8 million.
    rcaido
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